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[1.21Gigawatts]

High horse?

Many from you maybe not live in germany but there are multiple cases where shit like that happens in local regions.

According to BKA (Federal Criminal Police Office in Germany) the crime rate among refugees is not significantly different from crime rates among german citizens in similar social situations.
Meaning you don't compare refugees to the average german citizens but to poor germans without jobs and prospects, you know, like the refugees.
They also didn't count refugee specific crimes germans couldn't commit.(Usually bureocracy stuff)

That basically debunks the myth that refugees are inherently more prone to crime.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

There was an interesting graphic on criminal involvement of refugees in Germany. That one showed Syrian refugees were less problematic (below average compared to other refugee groups; green country).

Source: http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...aus-diesen-Laendern-oft-kriminell-werden.html

Yeah while you're at it, might as well post the second, more interesting graphic about what these criminal deeds actually involve. Turns out sex/rape/grope related issues and attacks on life are counted as a whopping 1.2% of all criminal acts.

 

[Jacobi]

Well that's the rule of law. People have rights. Even foreigners. The police can't jail a person without due process. Any person.

I know but even when someone beats someone to a pulp, the punishment is usually ridiculous

 

[Salty Rice]

Well maybe i overreacted but i just speak from my own experiences and having multiple cases where refugees grab women between the legs in bathhouses, violence and guy running around with a axe slashing people just a couple of streets from me isnt helping.

 

[Markoman]

What have you done Merkel?

Before you jump at me after you've jumperd at justjohn. From a wider point of view this guy is right. Merkel has created a situation of uncontrolled immigration and has violated several national and international laws. I leave it up to you how to judge her decisions, but there's one point we shouldn't even be arguing about and that is the national sovereignty of all the other European nations that had to face the consequence of her decision without proper consultation. Do I really have to remind you that she is not Queen Mom of Europe? The whole migration crisis could've been solved so much better, especially for those who by European law had the right to apply for asylum.

 

[Jacobi]

According to BKA (Federal Criminal Police Office in Germany) the crime rate among refugees is not significantly different from crime rates among german citizens in similar social situations.
Meaning you don't compare refugees to the average german citizens but to poor germans without jobs and prospects, you know, like the refugees.
They also didn't count refugee specific crimes germans couldn't commit.(Usually bureocracy stuff)

That basically debunks the myth that refugees are inherently more prone to crime.

That was a blatant lie

http://uebermedien.de/5616/vergleichsweise-kriminell-das-fluechtlingszitat-des-innenministeriums/

 

[Sch1sm]

Sorry, I misread. History with the police doesn't sound great though and I still question why he is allowed refuge or free movement, plenty of other people worthy of help that aren't "known" to law enforcement.

International law doesn't exactly let a refugee get deported unless the country is ruled safe enough, pretty sure. He probably had free movement because his history with police wasn't cause for concern, probably?

 

[Corto]

Well maybe i overreacted but i just speak from my own experiences and having multiple cases where refugees grab women between the legs in bathhouses and guy running around with a axe slashing people just a couple of streets from me isnt helping.

That just makes you extremely unlucky.

 

[therealist]

everyone knew that Germany would be less safe with the influx of refugees. When you bring in any sizable portion of people, there is statistically a 100% certainty that you are adding to the number criminals and dangerous people in the country. Out of a large group of people there will always be bad ones. What I fear is that the failure to properly integrate the refugees can lead to even more strife than Germany was hoping for.

 

[ElTorro]

Yeah while you're at it, might as well post the second, more interesting graphic about what these criminal deeds actually involve. Turns out sex/rape/grope related issues and attacks on life are counted as a whopping 1.2% of all criminal acts.

I am not trying to undermine your position, but without absolute numbers, percentages are not really useful the point you want to make.

 

[Kurdel]

Would be way more useful if it had a source and a date. I reverse-searched that image, and, for instance, found a post on r/conspiracy claiming that the data is from 2005.

I am glad we still have people who check for sources, thanks.

 

[His Majesty]

My sympathies to the victims & relatives.

 

[Vire]

He got into an argument with a woman near the bus station, then he hurt her with the machete. There's no indication of a terrorist background, if that's what you're implying, this seems to be a seperated case of a random loon.

Not saying he's a terrorist, but why the fuck would you carry a machete on you?

Also, holy fuck... Props to the guy who ran him over.

 

[Sesuadra]

High horse?

Many from you maybe not live in germany but there are multiple cases where shit like that happens in local regions.

A lot of people who talk in this thread to you are from Germany. Me included, you're talking bullshit. Especially without any source/data.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Am I wrong to think that a single casualty altercation is just a local squabble not worth of international attention?

 

[YianGaruga]

Before you jump at me after you've jumperd at justjohn. From a wider point of view this guy is right. Merkel has created a situation of uncontrolled immigration and has violated several national and international laws. I leave it up to you how to judge her decisions, but there's one point we shouldn't even be arguing about and that is the national sovereignty of all the other European nations that had to face the consequence of her decision without proper consultation. Do I really have to remind you that she is not Queen Mom of Europe? The whole migration crisis could've been solved so much better, especially for those who by European law had the right to apply for asylum.

Seriously? She made that decision because every other EU member state didn't want to have anything to do with the refugees and closed their borders. People had NOWHERE to go

Her decision didn't influence the sovereignity of other EU nations in any way. wtf am I even reading here

There were PLENTY of attempts to create a European solution to the refugee problem, but no one gave a shit

and has violated several national and international laws.

elaborate please

Am I wrong to think that a single casualty altercation is just a local squabble not worth of international attention?

It only gets that attention because it was a refugee

 

[Hypnotoad]

Would be way more useful if it had a source and a date. I reverse-searched that image, and, for instance, found a post on r/conspiracy claiming that the data is from 2005.

I did look through the official numbers for 2015, they are detailed on the BKA (Federal Criminal Police) website, and the extreme overrepresantation of certain foreign nationalities is still the same, however it hasn't been presented in easy-to-read graphs yet.

 

[Kurdel]

Its just facts.

I dont want this shit to happen but when you hear that shit multiple times in a week its just like that. Many have no respect for women in general.

Selection bias means that you will disproportionately hear about crimes that sell papers, reinforcing the belief that the wheels are coming off and all hell is breaking loose.

So basing your beliefs on an inacurate reflection of reality is really myopic.

 

[His Majesty]

Seriously? She made that decision because every other EU member state didn't want to have anything to do with the refugees and closed their borders. People had NOWHERE to go

Her decision didn't influence the sovereignity of other EU nations in any way. wtf am I even reading here


elaborate please


It only gets that attention because it was a refugee

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ops-EU-rules-to-allow-in-Syrian-refugees.html

 

[Markoman]

Am I wrong to think that a single casualty altercation is just a local squabble not worth of international attention?

Under normal circumstances yes, but we've had Nice, axe-guy and now machete-guy in 10 days. I guess it's up to you to decide.

 

[Corto]

Seriously? She made that decision because every other EU member state didn't want to have anything to do with the refugees and closed their borders.

Her decision didn't influence the sovereignity of other EU nations in any way. wtf am I even reading here


elaborate please


It only gets that attention because it was a refugee

Exactly. EU as a whole had an abhorrent reaction to the immigration problem. Right to the Turkey deal that is now bitting us in our ass.

 

[Jacobi]

A lot of people who talk in this thread to you are from Germany. Me included, you're talking bullshit. Especially without any source/data.

Really? That's just from one day:
http://www.freiezeiten.net/19-juli-asylsommer-2016-dutzende-angriffe-auf-frauen

 

[ClosingADoor]

Would be way more useful if it had a source and a date. I reverse-searched that image, and, for instance, found a post on r/conspiracy claiming that the data is from 2005.

While the graph seems to be made by a right wing website that is clearly having an agenda, the numbers seem to come from official sources here: https://www.bka.de/DE/Publikationen...tandardtabellenTatverdaechtigeUebersicht.html

Table 62: Straftaten und Staatsangehörigkeit nichtdeutscher Tatverdächtiger

 

[Xando]

Am I wrong to think that a single casualty altercation is just a local squabble not worth of international attention?

Doubt you'd see this pop up on Gaf if it wasn't a refugee

 

[YianGaruga]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ops-EU-rules-to-allow-in-Syrian-refugees.html

And she did that EXACTLY because no one else wanted to take the refugees. No one in EU gives a shit about EU regulation anyway when they are inconvenient

Dublin failed the second the first big wave of refugees arrived because other states didn't want to deal with them

 

[Baki]

The safety of German citizens should be paramount to everything else. Might not be politically correct but that's how it should be.

Europeans commit crimes. Should Germany leave the EU?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Before you jump at me after you've jumperd at justjohn. From a wider point of view this guy is right. Merkel has created a situation of uncontrolled immigration and has violated several national and international laws. I leave it up to you how to judge her decisions, but there's one point we shouldn't even be arguing about and that is the national sovereignty of all the other European nations that had to face the consequence of her decision without proper consultation. Do I really have to remind you that she is not Queen Mom of Europe? The whole migration crisis could've been solved so much better, especially for those who by European law had the right to apply for asylum.

No she didn't, she's upheld our moral obligations while every other member even my home country failed at doing so. She has no say over the borders of other countries and she didn't violate that in any way.
Merkel being Queen Mom of Europe is such dumb drivel it's a oneway street to being completely disregarded.

Not saying he's a terrorist, but why the fuck would you carry a machete on you?

Also, holy fuck... Props to the guy who ran him over.

makes it seem premeditated.

 

[SporeCrawler]

That's not a function of any democratically elected government whatsoever. It is the government of a country being kind, it is not obligated to do said kind acts.

Anyway, does Germany have an end plan on what they are planning to do with the refugees. Last I read they are still in those camps.

well its written in the german constiution that anyone has the right to seek political asylum. its a constitutional duty of any elected german government. also germany is signatory to the geneva refugee convention. so its also a duty according to international law.

 

[Salty Rice]

Really? That's just from one day:
http://www.freiezeiten.net/19-juli-asylsommer-2016-dutzende-angriffe-auf-frauen

Thanks.

But i guess many just gonna continue to call me asshole and a fear monger and call these things coincidence that its all refugees.

 

[ElTorro]

Exactly. EU as a whole had an abhorrent reaction to the immigration problem. Right to the Turkey deal that is now bitting us in our ass.

The one thing I'd criticize Merkel for is that she wasn't conscious enough of the way some of her statements would be received by refugees outside of Germany. Encouraging them to take illegal and dangerous routes was a mistake.

Everything else she did was done with the confidence that Europe would pool its resources and tackle this crisis together. Once she realized that Europe was failing in this regard, she changed her strategy accordingly. I can't blame her for that. She took action in order to solve a problem that cannot and should not be ignored, while everyone else just put their heads in the sand.

It is fair to debate whether Europe should have intervened earlier in the civil war and the uprising of ISIS to prevent this crisis from happening in the first place. It can also be debated whether it could have been possible to confine the stream of refugees to the border regions just outside of Syria. But all of this was irrelevant once people managed to reach European soil. And I won't blame Merkel for trying to tackle this situation in a humane and solution-oriented way. Taking in so many refugees without being able to vet them or their status is certainly nothing anyone should want, but closing the borders and let the poorer countries of Europe, Greece in particular, handle the problem alone is not a workable strategy.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Really? That's just from one day:
http://www.freiezeiten.net/19-juli-asylsommer-2016-dutzende-angriffe-auf-frauen

are you freaking kidding me with that website

Thanks.

But i guess many just gonna continue to call me asshole and a fear monger and call these things coincidence that its all refugees.

oh ffs. Yes, dude, if an obvious right-wing "news" website with incredibly racist titles and "news", partially made up or taken from years and years ago to make them seem relevant in current atmosphere, I would still call you things. What the hell.

 

[Markoman]

Seriously? She made that decision because every other EU member state didn't want to have anything to do with the refugees and closed their borders. People had NOWHERE to go

Her decision didn't influence the sovereignity of other EU nations in any way. wtf am I even reading here

There were PLENTY of attempts to create a European solution to the refugee problem, but no one gave a shit


elaborate please


It only gets that attention because it was a refugee

Are you fucking kidding me? We are not the U.S.E. yet. Merkel has to respect the borders of all European states no matter what the moral situation looks like. When she announced that Germany will basically "open the borders" it was clear as daylight that those who will follow the call will have to go through several European countries. This is unacceptable on so many levels! Let's not even talk about her -after realizing what she has done- going to the shadiest guy in Europe to solve the problem.

Edit: oh btw, do I have to remind you how democracy works on a national level and in a union of nations? Like you have stated correctly: every other European was against this. So, is it cool to neglect the majority because this is for a good cause?

 

[Vuze]

Damn, wtf, it feels like there's a horrific slaughter attack every other day now
I hope the other victims will be alright. RIP to the lady who got killed.

We definitely need harder punishments. This guy was already known to the police, but probably got no punishment at all.

Agreed.

Am I wrong to think that a single casualty altercation is just a local squabble not worth of international attention?

I doubt you'll see this attack in particular on CNN or whatever or what were you referring to as "international attention"?

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Check everyone who you allow into your country. I dont care if their a refugee from the middle east, or a individual from the west, east etc. Its not rocket science.

My heart goes out to the victims.

 

[ClosingADoor]

No she didn't, she's upheld our moral obligations while every other member even my home country failed at doing so. She has no say over the borders of other countries and she didn't violate that in any way.
Merkel being Queen Mom of Europe is such dumb drivel it's a oneway street to being completely disregarded.

Europe has open borders, so the actions of one country letting in people has a direct consequence for other countries as well. If for example Spain just started saying: "We don't check our borders anymore, come right in all" then the other EU countries would rightfully have a problem with that.

The people going to Germany would also needed to pass through multiple other countries.

 

[Madness]

Lots of "German" people do crime and harm each other as well. Deport all Germans as well?

People are being so ridiculous with how much they generalize so much.

Germans doing crime in Germany is different than letting in almost 2 million migrants and refugees and not expecting this. The very first and primary goal of any elected leader of a country is to protect their own people first and worry about the others next. Otherwise you have failed as a leader. This is what makes a country a country. The day you care more about Non-Germans over Germans is the day you aren't a leader for Germany.

Also you are wrong in your belief that refugees will commit little crime. Historically, no matter what ethnic group it has been, mass waves of migration and demgraphic change have created tons of chaos and upheaval.

What will happen is, once the dust settles of the migration movement. You will have hundreds of thousands or millions of people raised in a largely different culture, many are uneducated or underskilled and will not find work creating a permanent underclass of people. They will live at or below the poverty level. Their isolation will create slums where only they will congregate. Humans have to eat and want to help their family and so if they cannot find stable or good paying work they will steal and commit low level crimes. This has been seen all the time. Take a look at the waves of Italian immigrants to the US. Take a look at after Partition in India and Pakistan what it was like. Beyond this wave of migrants they will have children and their children will have children. They will grow up in these slums. They will struggle between to nationalities and identities. You're seeing a lot of lone wolf attacks from people born and raised here but who grow up hating the new place right? How they become radicalized. This isn't a new phenomena.

If you are Chancellor of Germany, your goal is to protect Germans from risk, that is first and paramount. The fact you don't really understand this is why you are oblivious to the fact ultranationalism and far right governments are propping up all over.

 

[cyba89]

Well maybe i overreacted but i just speak from my own experiences and having multiple cases where refugees grab women between the legs in bathhouses, violence and guy running around with a axe slashing people just a couple of streets from me isnt helping.

Smh.

 

[DrFurbs]

They should just taken that fucking machete and rammed it up his ass. Reports are the woman he killed was pregnant.

Dear lord if true.

 

[Salty Rice]

are you freaking kidding me with that website

So all these cases are fake?

 

[Milchjon]

Really? That's just from one day:
http://www.freiezeiten.net/19-juli-asylsommer-2016-dutzende-angriffe-auf-frauen

lolwat at that site.

 

[iPaul93]

The safety of German citizens should be paramount to everything else. Might not be politically correct but that's how it should be.

Agreed.

 

[Kinyou]

are you freaking kidding me with that website

You might not like the site, but all those incidents are sourced.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

edit I'm out

We're linking obvious neonazi websites now as "sourced information". I don't even know what to say at this point, so I will stay out of this discussion now.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Reports now that the woman was pregnant. Just terrible. Hope he gets locked up the rest of his life.

UPDATE: German media reporting that the woman who was killed by Syrian refugee was pregnant. Man had been involved in previous incidents.

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/757262681472659460?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Ansatz]

Doubt you'd see this pop up on Gaf if it wasn't a refugee

The article will have staying power because he was a refugee yes, but an attack of this nature would get instant global attention considering what has happened in the past couple of months. That's why it was posted here, so no you're wrong.

 

[Jacobi]

are you freaking kidding me with that website

Each news has a source on that site. Just click on the city name

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

That was a blatant lie

http://uebermedien.de/5616/vergleichsweise-kriminell-das-fluechtlingszitat-des-innenministeriums/

Well thats amateurish by the Innenminsterium, but it still at least proves that there are no numbers showing that there is a higher crime rate among refugees than among germans in similar social situations. Something so many people always imply.

As the articel states:

Zuwanderer sind jünger und männlicher als die deutsche Bevölkerung, sie sind ärmer und vermutlich häufig traumatisiert. All das kann eine höhere Kriminalitätsrate begünstigen.
Nun könnte es sein, dass Zuwanderer nicht stärker zu Kriminalität neigen als eine ähnlich zusammengesetzte Vergleichsgruppe von Deutschen.

Thats probably what the Innenministerium was trying to imply, even though the BKA didn't specifically look into it in their report.

 

[Salty Rice]

Know what? Have a fucking nice day knowing that neonazis are apparently tolerated in this thread, I will not even reply to that question.

Oh ok when there is actually evidence and you dont wanna believe it you just get out and call people neonazis?

Not ignorant in any way and so much better you are.

 

[Condom]

Please tell me how putting the safety of German citizens first is not more important than anything else. I'd love to hear your point of view.

Indeed we must make a strong Reich with enough room for the German people to live comfortably and safely surrounded by only German culture to avoid the contamination of German society.
It's the ultimate mission of the German state and no guilt tripping by politically correct cultural Marxists will stop us.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The article will have staying power because he was a refugee yes, but an attack of this nature would get instant global attention considering what has happened in the past couple of months. That's why it was posted here, so no you're wrong.

Considering we just had a major shooting and another attack in the train over the past week, more eyes are on Germany with these kind of random attacks.

It popped up here in Holland on the news before the background of the killer was known.

Well thats amateurish by the Innenminsterium, but it still at least proves that there are no numbers showing that there is a higher crime rate among refugees than among germans in similar social situations. Something so many people always imply.

Immigrants in general however are over represented in crime statistics.