Infernostew
Member
Rocksmith 2014 is the GOAT. Not only is it a great rhythm game but it teaches you how to play guitar.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Is Rhythm Gaming Still Relevant?
- Thread starter Hedgey
- Start date
There's a lot I have to say on the subject.
First of, there are two, very, VERY distinct target markets as far as rhythm/music games go.
Before I get into what they are, let me pull up an analogy not from the rhythm game niche.
Take a TV series. A famous TV series. Everyone knows the plot, how it goes, who dies, who wins, etc. Make a game out of that. Reception isn't going to be all that hot, because in the end you're going through the motions and you already know what's going to happen. On the other hand it taps into the novelty of actually playing a popular franchise, and can work for things like Star Wars, Marvel, etc. Many successful games based on an existing media IP are successful because they do their own retelling (see: Arkham series) or a new story within the setting (Telltale's Walking Dead, Borderlands, etc)
Now apply that concept to rhythm games.
On one hand, you have people who absolutely want to play popular songs and be part of -that- experience. It's similar to going to Karaoke - no one is going to pick stuff they've never heard.
On the other, having pre-existing content shoved into a rhythm game loses out on the sense of discovery that's inherent to other game genres.
This leads us to two target markets:
A) The Top 40 crowd (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way)
B) The niche-ass original-content-games crowd
While people can definitely be interested in both, I think this is as clear a distinction to make when discussing rhythm games. Other than the fact you're supposed to hit buttons in a specific pattern in a specific timing, they're about as different in expectation as e.g. a FPS vs a third person action adventure even if the game mechanic in both involves putting a crosshair over baddies' heads and pressing a button.
I think the birth, growth and decline of the two subgenres should be looked at completely separate contexts. A) exploded with Guitar Hero, had its heyday throughout RB3, and is experiencing a somewhat muted comeback at the moment. B), despite being niche, started earlier, had a great run on PC either via Korean MMOs (DJMAX, O2JAM) and community-based offerings like OSU and Stepmania, and in arcades has never really ever died off, at least not in areas where arcades are thriving.
Again, while this is a generalization, I find that the A) fanbase tends to want to jump on a fad a lot more, and this hasn't been very sustainable as it's hard to keep the interest going, whereas the B) fanbase tends to want to push the envelope in terms of technical difficulty, while constantly churning out new content/games/etc. Conversely, B) has always had a serious problem in terms of reach/distribution since being niche means your fanbase is diluted and spread over a large area. On the flipside, stuff on mobile that doesn't have a distirbution issue suffers instead from simplicity of input.
As to whether it's still relevant? If a game targeted at B) overcomes its distribution/reach issues, and constantly creates new, relevant content without succumbing to piracy, I don't think it will ever become irrelevant.
First of, there are two, very, VERY distinct target markets as far as rhythm/music games go.
Before I get into what they are, let me pull up an analogy not from the rhythm game niche.
Take a TV series. A famous TV series. Everyone knows the plot, how it goes, who dies, who wins, etc. Make a game out of that. Reception isn't going to be all that hot, because in the end you're going through the motions and you already know what's going to happen. On the other hand it taps into the novelty of actually playing a popular franchise, and can work for things like Star Wars, Marvel, etc. Many successful games based on an existing media IP are successful because they do their own retelling (see: Arkham series) or a new story within the setting (Telltale's Walking Dead, Borderlands, etc)
Now apply that concept to rhythm games.
On one hand, you have people who absolutely want to play popular songs and be part of -that- experience. It's similar to going to Karaoke - no one is going to pick stuff they've never heard.
On the other, having pre-existing content shoved into a rhythm game loses out on the sense of discovery that's inherent to other game genres.
This leads us to two target markets:
A) The Top 40 crowd (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way)
B) The niche-ass original-content-games crowd
While people can definitely be interested in both, I think this is as clear a distinction to make when discussing rhythm games. Other than the fact you're supposed to hit buttons in a specific pattern in a specific timing, they're about as different in expectation as e.g. a FPS vs a third person action adventure even if the game mechanic in both involves putting a crosshair over baddies' heads and pressing a button.
I think the birth, growth and decline of the two subgenres should be looked at completely separate contexts. A) exploded with Guitar Hero, had its heyday throughout RB3, and is experiencing a somewhat muted comeback at the moment. B), despite being niche, started earlier, had a great run on PC either via Korean MMOs (DJMAX, O2JAM) and community-based offerings like OSU and Stepmania, and in arcades has never really ever died off, at least not in areas where arcades are thriving.
Again, while this is a generalization, I find that the A) fanbase tends to want to jump on a fad a lot more, and this hasn't been very sustainable as it's hard to keep the interest going, whereas the B) fanbase tends to want to push the envelope in terms of technical difficulty, while constantly churning out new content/games/etc. Conversely, B) has always had a serious problem in terms of reach/distribution since being niche means your fanbase is diluted and spread over a large area. On the flipside, stuff on mobile that doesn't have a distirbution issue suffers instead from simplicity of input.
As to whether it's still relevant? If a game targeted at B) overcomes its distribution/reach issues, and constantly creates new, relevant content without succumbing to piracy, I don't think it will ever become irrelevant.
chaobreaker
Member
LCD TVs killed console rhythm games. Guitar Hero and Rock Band brought it back from the dead only to beat it to death like a dead horse.
Secret Character
Member
Ew, please no. Every game Ward has worked on has a terrible aesthetic and pretty bad music. I couldn't keep playing ITG or ITG2 because of their soundtracks. Let's not forget the hilarious spinning rim on his last game.
Rhythm games are healthier right now than they were two years ago. DDR Ace is out at a bunch of Dave and Busters locations right now and round1 is opening up more locations. Miku is insanely popular and those games are localised.
I hope that Konami makes a IIDX for modern consoles again. I would buy so much DLC.
stargateheaven
Member
i still play pop'n music cos IMO it's the best rhythm game there's ever been.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I played IA/VT Colorful, Persona 4 Dancing, Superbeat Xonic, 3 Hatsune Miku games, a couple Taiko no Tatsujin games, Rhythm Heaven Megamix, and Amplitude PS4 all within the last year or so and all pretty good. They are going strong I say for niche players, though I don't have an expansive history with the genre.
They have very different ideas of touch controls. DJ Max is much more designed around it but can also get more cumbersome and doesn't work well if you can't hold the Vita a certain way.
They have very different ideas of touch controls. DJ Max is much more designed around it but can also get more cumbersome and doesn't work well if you can't hold the Vita a certain way.
NoKisum
Member
I meant something that generates based on the music you put in, like Audiosurf or Crypt of the NecroDancer. But on a handheld system.
Nothing like that exists unfortunately. There's some F2P mobile games that fit my description, but they're all garbage.
Most of the arcade games mentioned are not ported though.
Additionally these games run on machines with personalised inputs that just don't translate well to either format.
That credit should really go to Parappa the Rapper.
The Hermit
Member
Kowashitai
Banned
If Konami ever started porting stuff like IIDX or Sound Voltex to modern consoles I wouldn't have enough money to throw at them. It's too bad they won't because it'd probably get them some good money from the whales.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Elite Beat Agents will always have a special place in my heart.
Also, you guys who like rhythm games really should play Audioshield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSsdsu4yIk
It's awesomesauce.
Also, you guys who like rhythm games really should play Audioshield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSsdsu4yIk
It's awesomesauce.
The Bankslammer
Member
i have great news for everyone hoping for a new inis music game. just announced yesterday!
you're welcome
you're welcome
The Awesomest
Member
Rhythm Thief. Just making sure that gets mentioned in here. Pretty neat game, sucks it'll never get a sequel.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
If it wasn't for ITG's success, we wouldn't have glorious 16th note crossovers and random jumps thrown in streams.
I agree ITG's music paled in comparison to DDR, but the stepcharts were usually a lot better.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
I still play Rock Band, but unfortunately, that's not a very common thing.
Deft Beck
Member
God, kill me.
I didn't think it was that great. The person who thought of the gyroscope rhythm minigames should be fired.
Kowashitai
Banned
I really like the concept of Rhythm Thief being Professor Layton but with rhythm games instead of puzzles and some of the games were cool but others were a nightmare. Gyro controlled ones were sketchy at best and the timing on the shooting ones was messed up. I'd love a sequel just to see Sega polish up this great base game and add in even more references.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
I was huge into the DDR Arcade scene. Unfortunately what used to be a healthy dozen or so machines in my city has since dwindled to only 2 that I know of. Both of which are still rocking DDR Extreme. We had a Rave theater that had a Supernova machine, then upgraded to an X machine, but it got turned into an AMC and they're gone now.
The popularity of the series, especially with the casual crowd has really disappeared here.
The popularity of the series, especially with the casual crowd has really disappeared here.
RecRoulette
Member
Glad to see iNiS is still trucking, I guess...
Just wait until Idolmaster gets another rhythm game spinoff, then we can add that music to the list too!
WaterAstro
Member
Yeah well where are they in the west?
I use to play DDR 3rd Remix on my PS1 for hours on end. Now there's just nothing for console.
If it helps any there's nothing for console from Konami in non-west either.
djplaeskool
Member
Konami is still making Beatmania IIDX games, so yes.
Kowashitai
Banned
They are in arcades, not on consoles. And they are in some arcades in the west.
StarCreator
Member
Wow, this thread got more attention than that thread I made actually talking about DDR A's US release.
I don't think rhythm games are exactly a healthy market but it's not a market in danger of dying tomorrow either. I do think more effort needs to be put in to make rhythm games that work for home consoles (though I think Konami's iOS offerings are excellent, despite being often overlooked). But if peripheral gaming is your jam, I don't see that making the jump from arcade to home console again. Not after Rock Band 4's somewhat underwhelming launch, anyway.
I don't think rhythm games are exactly a healthy market but it's not a market in danger of dying tomorrow either. I do think more effort needs to be put in to make rhythm games that work for home consoles (though I think Konami's iOS offerings are excellent, despite being often overlooked). But if peripheral gaming is your jam, I don't see that making the jump from arcade to home console again. Not after Rock Band 4's somewhat underwhelming launch, anyway.
bobawesome
Member
Miku will never die.
Nods in agreement
sergioalb64
Member
Thanks for the tips on SUPERBEAT: XONIC for Vita. Don't know how this flew completely under my radar. Loving it already.
Z..
Member
Still my favorite, hoping we get a sequel one day
Gest Ouendan. EBA is the worst entry in the trilogy. Best rhythm game engine ever. Soundtrack is 95% shit, though. Same for Ouendan 1 & 2. Realistically, if this engine could be adapted to incorporate custom soundtracks, I would never stop playing this game, ever.
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
Just popping in to say if you like rhythm games and have a smart device, you should give Voez a shot. It's easily one of my favorite rhythm games ever, with a system that feels like it could only be on mobile, and the rotating unlocks/keys system feels pleasingly arcadey. They even add new songs regularly.
I used to live on a DDR pad, but the more physical games are beyond me now. I'm inexpressibly pleased to find the genre is thriving, innovative (and free!) on mobile.
I used to live on a DDR pad, but the more physical games are beyond me now. I'm inexpressibly pleased to find the genre is thriving, innovative (and free!) on mobile.
Voez is lit. Has my approval.
I did a quick search and noticed your thread. Originally that was going to be my main point, and I debated posting there, and resurrecting it, but I ended up writing a lot more than I originally intended and decided to stuff it into a new topic.
...damn!
I honestly had no idea those games made it over to the US app store. I have an android phone, so I guess I wouldn't know.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Still my favorite, hoping we get a sequel one day
We did!
Real talk, any EBA fan who hasn't played the Ouendan games is seriously missing out. EBA is merely the second entry in a trilogy; it just so happens the other two games were Japan-only. The DS is region-free, the games require zero understanding of Japanese, and they're not terribly expensive these days. No reason not to try 'em out.
EDIT: With that said, I would absolutely kill for Ouendan 3 or EBA 2.
We did!
Real talk, any EBA fan who hasn't played the Ouendan games is seriously missing out. EBA is merely the second entry in a trilogy; it just so happens the other two games were Japan-only. The DS is region-free, the games require zero understanding of Japanese, and they're not terribly expensive these days. No reason not to try 'em out.
EDIT: With that said, I would absolutely kill for Ouendan 3 or EBA 2.
Didn't the first Ouendan game also have different music?
So it's like getting two new games!
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Yeah. Oendan 1, EBA, and Ouendan 2 are all completely distinct games. 1 came first, so the note charting is a lot simpler and it's not quite as polished as the latter two, but IMO it has the strongest soundtrack in the series. They're all worth playing for sure.
I mean, you're basically describing Osu! to a T. Which makes sense, since I'm pretty sure it started as a fan-project for Ouendan on PC.
Only problem is that you have to play it without a touch screen. That's a total deal breaker for me.
My brother loves it though. He's played at least 70+ custom songs this year alone.
prince_david
Neo Member
I like the original post. For music games to thrive, it's really best in the arcade. At least let's see them succeed there first. I am hoping if DDRA is a success here we can see more music arcade games come over. If they manage to do really well perhaps we could get home releases but home controllers are so expensive.
prince_david
Neo Member
Yeah those kinds of games are great. Rhythm gaming even works well on touch screens.
I've been playing Theatrhythm Curtain Call all week and it's fabulous. And with the recent Hatsune Miku games being as good as they have been, I'd say it's not as strong but still relevant. I'm surprised mobile hasn't picked up the slack, as it seems perfectly suited for this type of game.
Looking forward to the new Hatsune Miku game later this year.
Looking forward to the new Hatsune Miku game later this year.