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[Randdalf]

It's funny how many posters in this forum suddenly care about the opinion of rightwingers and independents/undecided when they need to support the liberal pseudo-left while in every other instance they vilify them (sometimes they have a good reason to but still).

Anyway, the fact that Corbyn has a problem with the general public exists because, like I said, the neoliberal dipshits that control the party constantly question and sabotage him as proven by this pathetic coup. And they will continue to do so because they're corrupt to the core and bought.

How exactly is a democratic leadership challenge a coup?

 

[Riddick]

How exactly is a democratic leadership challenge a coup?

It's a metaphor, obviously. But if you think that the sad excuse they found and subsequent actions against a leader that was elected with a landslide victory by Labour voters just a year ago isn't incredibly sketchy you need to check your facts again. Not to mention of course the constant sabotage and obnoxious condescending tone of the neoliberal assholes who control the party.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

It's a metaphor, obviously. But if you think that the sad excuse they found and subsequent actions against a leader that was elected with a landslide victory by Labour voters just a year ago isn't incredibly sketchy you need to check your facts again. Not to mention of course the constant sabotage and obnoxious condescending tone of the neoliberal assholes who control the party.

Dear Leader has spent 30 years agitating for annual leadership challenges

 

[darkace]

I think that 'Everybody I don't like is Hitler' book should be updated to read 'Everybody I don't like is a neo-liberal.'

As an actual neo-liberal, the PLP is just about completely free of them.

 

[haxamin]

It's funny how many posters in this forum suddenly care about the opinion of rightwingers and independents/undecided when they need to support the liberal pseudo-left while in every other instance they vilify them (sometimes they have a good reason to but still).

Anyway, the fact that Corbyn has a problem with the general public exists because, like I said, the neoliberal dipshits that control the party constantly question and sabotage him as proven by this pathetic coup. And they will continue to do so because they're corrupt to the core and bought.

So... the labour electorate is still not representative of the public?

 

[Commander Jameson]

How exactly is a democratic leadership challenge a coup?

I think the staggered resignations from the cabinet timed to coincide with live news broadcasts didn't reflect well on the PLP. If they wanted to challenge for the leadership, even just after the referendum, they should have selected someone and got on with it.

A democratic leadership challenge is not a coup.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's funny how many posters in this forum suddenly care about the opinion of rightwingers and independents/undecided when they need to support the liberal pseudo-left while in every other instance they vilify them (sometimes they have a good reason to but still).

Heh heh, you're new around here aren't you?

Anyway, the fact that Corbyn has a problem with the general public exists because, like I said, the neoliberal dipshits that control the party constantly question and sabotage him as proven by this pathetic coup. And they will continue to do so because they're corrupt to the core and bought.

Oh jesus christ. What does neoliberal mean? Define it. I asked because Crab posted a pretty convincing explanation as to why the word is basically useless because it means whatever the user wants it to mean.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Heh heh, you're new around here aren't you?



Oh jesus christ. What does neoliberal mean? Define it. I asked because Crab posted a pretty convincing explanation as to why the word is basically useless because it means whatever the user wants it to mean.

In this context, Neo-Liberal means 'anyone who does not believe in the vague undefined revolution we're trying to bring about through Corbyn'.

 

[Riddick]

Heh heh, you're new around here aren't you?



Oh jesus christ. What does neoliberal mean? Define it. I asked because Crab posted a pretty convincing explanation as to why the word is basically useless because it means whatever the user wants it to mean.

I have answered that before:

Neoliberalism is the system invented American economists with the sole purpose of serving corporations and banks. It's basically corporatocracy. Many people have the illusion that the particular system has principles but it doesn't. When the ruling class is threatened for example it has no qualms with imposing heavy taxation on populations, even though the "ideology" is supposedly staunchly against that, to save their corrupt banking system like it happened in many EU countries for example in order to avoid defaulting on their debts and bringing down French and German banks.

Neoliberals are the corrupt scum serving that system or the morons who actually believe in it as an ideology. The ability of the neoliberal system to co-opt movements, parties and ideologies is also worth noting and so its ability to create distractions or divide the lower classes. And before some smartass accuses me of conspiracy theories, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy I'm saying it's a well oiled machine. The corporate media do their job misinforming, pitting us against each other and omitting information, the politicians do their job screwing the little guy to benefit corporations and banks, the bankers do their job corrupting politicians and creating a "free" market economy they fully control, the CEOs do their jobs corrupting politicians and exploiting the workforce with the help of the aforementioned politicians and so on.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I have answered that before:

Yeah, I know - that was what Crab was replying to in that post I linked to!

But given that this is your definition, who do you think controls the party if not the leader? Who are these people that serve banks and corporations?

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

So Neoliberalism is not allowing banks to fail?

And people wonder why we're trying to stop these people from taking total control of the Labour party.

 

[Riddick]

Yeah, I know - that was what Crab was replying to in that post I linked to!

But given that this is your definition, who do you think controls the party if not the leader? Who are these people that serve banks and corporations?

What exactly do you want me to do, start naming names or something? What kind of argument is this? Or are you gonna pretend that corporate interests don't control politicians in UK? Just like I know for a fact that the Democrats are corrupt I know the same about the Labour party. They're very similar actually. The actions of the Labour party the last couple of decades speak for themselves.

 

[Riddick]

So Neoliberalism is not allowing banks to fail?

And people wonder why we're trying to stop these people from taking total control of the Labour party.

Next time read the whole post. I'm fully aware of what neoliberalism is supposed to represent but also aware of what it truly represents which is why I talked about the illusion some people have of that fucking system having any principles other than serving the ruling class.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Next time read the whole post. I'm fully aware of what neoliberalism is supposed to represent but also aware of what it truly represents which is why I talked about the illusion some people have of that fucking system having any principles other than serving the ruling class.

And a man from London named Jeremy, who has a brother called Piers and went to a posh school, with a campaign led by a man named Seamus whose dad was director general of the BBC is the antidote to being ruled by our betters?

 

[Riddick]

And a man from London named Jeremy, who has a brother called Piers and went to a posh school, with a campaign led by a man named Seamus whose dad was director general of the BBC is the antidote to being ruled by our betters?

Not the antidote but certainly better than the hopeless political status quo that existed before them.

 

[Coriolanus]

So Neoliberalism is not allowing banks to fail?

And people wonder why we're trying to stop these people from taking total control of the Labour party.

Whaddayamean "trying to stop"?

You already tried. And failed. And are in the process of trying again. And everything indicates that you'll fail again.

The sooner you come to terms with your own incompetence at ousting him and look for alternative ways to help labour, the better.

Otherwise one suffers from a problem of denial of reality that quite matches that of those that think Corbyn is a great leader.

 

[CyclopsRock]

What exactly do you want me to do, start naming names or something? What kind of argument is this? Or are you gonna pretend that corporate interests don't control politicians in UK? Just like I know for a fact that the Democrats are corrupt I know the same about the Labour party. They're very similar actually. The actions of the Labour party the last couple of decades speak for themselves.

It would be a start to name names, yeah. The party is run by the NEC which is basically a combination of the unions and the Shadow cabinet. So which of those are shilling for banks and corporate interests?

I don't think "corporate interests" control politicians, no. I think "getting elected" does.

 

[Piecake]

It would be a start to name names, yeah. The party is run by the NEC which is basically a combination of the unions and the Shadow cabinet. So which of those are shilling for banks and corporate interests?

I don't think "corporate interests" control politicians, no. I think "getting elected" does.

But then how would I explain away why my minority opinion is not widely shared with the general public, why national polls show that my candidate is doing poorly, and why even the Guardian, a newspaper designed to sell to the mainstream left, dislikes him as well?

 

[Jackpot]

But then how would I explain away why my minority opinion is not widely shared with the general public, why national polls show that my candidate is doing poorly, and why even the Guardian, a newspaper designed to sell to the mainstream left, dislikes him as well?

Those are all "rightwingers and independents/undecided". No one cares about them!

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Whaddayamean "trying to stop"?

You already tried. And failed. And are in the process of trying again. And everything indicates that you'll fail again.

The sooner you come to terms with your own incompetence at ousting him and look for alternative ways to help labour, the better.

Otherwise one suffers from a problem of denial of reality that quite matches that of those that think Corbyn is a great leader.

It's not over until they purge everyone who disagrees with them, or Corbyn goes. These battles have been fought and won before.

There are plenty of positions in the party that are held in opposition to Corbyn and momentum, even at CLP level.

 

[Walshicus]

So Neoliberalism is not allowing banks to fail?

And people wonder why we're trying to stop these people from taking total control of the Labour party.

Neoliberalism is putting the lie that banks are too important to fail at the heart of policy. Serving the corporate instead of the citizen.

On that specific point, banks should absolutely fail when needed. The government can guarantee the holdings of the lower 99% threshold just fine, but let's not pretend corporate welfare doesn't encourage undesirable behaviour.

 

[darkace]

Neoliberalism is putting the lie that banks are too important to fail at the heart of policy. Serving the corporate instead of the citizen.

On that specific point, banks should absolutely fail when needed. The government can guarantee the holdings of the lower 99% threshold just fine, but let's not pretend corporate welfare doesn't encourage undesirable behaviour.

You can serve the corporate and the citizen. These aren't mutually exclusive positions.

And yes, while the backing of governments incentivises undesirable behaviours from the banks (this is known as moral hazard), it also helps the citizens who otherwise wouldn't be able to access the requisite credit to fund their lives, while allowing those who can lower rates. It's not as simple as everything pro-corporate being anti-citizen.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Neoliberalism is putting the lie that banks are too important to fail at the heart of policy. Serving the corporate instead of the citizen.

On that specific point, banks should absolutely fail when needed. The government can guarantee the holdings of the lower 99% threshold just fine, but let's not pretend corporate welfare doesn't encourage undesirable behaviour.

If the banks fail, it will not be the elites who suffer. It will be the working classes. In other news, from Corbyn's rally...

 

[Uzzy]

If the banks fail, it will not be the elites who suffer. It will be the working classes. In other news, from Corbyn's rally...

That's the beauty of neoliberal economics. Corporations like banks and private utilities become too big to fail, so the Governments have to bail them out to prevent massive damage to the national infrastructure. The profits are privatised, while the risks are socialised. It's genius.

As for that flyer, the Tigers Lair is a bit of a heap. They could at least pick a better venue.

 

[Hazzuh]

Jeremy Corbyn asked five times to condemn IRA violence.


A lot of dancing around the point, how hard is it to just say "Yes, it was wrong for the IRA to kill innocent civilians"? Seems dodgy to say the least, especially in the context of his opposition to the Anglo-Irish agreement and his longstanding opposition to the SDLP. Also, John McDonnell's glorification of the IRA's campaign of "bombs and bullets" and his opposition to the Good Friday agreement.

This is an interview from last year but I'd never seen it before.

 

[haxamin]

Jeremy Corbyn asked five times to condemn IRA violence.


A lot of dancing around the point, how hard is it to just say "Yes, it was wrong for the IRA to kill innocent civilians"? Seems dodgy to say the least, especially in the context of his opposition to the Anglo-Irish agreement and his longstanding opposition to the SDLP. Also, John McDonnell's glorification of the IRA's campaign of "bombs and bullets" and his opposition to the Good Friday agreement.

Jesus christ that ending..

 

[ferrasvansen]

Jesus christ that ending..

What a joke, and yet so many call him a decent man. No decent man would refuse to condemn violent acts, he is not nice at all, nasty arrogant individual.

 

[travisbickle]

What a joke, and yet so many call him a decent man. No decent man would refuse to condemn violent acts, he is not nice at all, nasty arrogant individual.

The majority of the UK parliament voted in favour of intensifying the bombing in Syria in supporting resistance against the regime.

It's whether you believe the IRA is a legitimate organisation like the British-backed Syrian rebels.

I don't know? but I'm a hippy pacifist who wouldn't kill 100,000s of innocent people in a retaliatory nuclear strike like the British PM.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I have answered that before:

Out of interest, do you need a new copy of Das Kapital? It sounds like your copy is well read.

If the banks fail, it will not be the elites who suffer. It will be the working classes. In other news, from Corbyn's rally...

The Socialist is the modern name for Militant, as it says at the top right. Militant handing out recruitment fliers at Corbyn events is perhaps not a good sign.

 

[Maledict]

Jesus fucking Christ, he wants to be leader of the UK and yet when asked about violence committed against UK citizens he responds by referring to the British army violence. Fucking atrocious.

And yes, the militant tendency changed name to the socialist workers. A lot of Corbyn supporters have *no* clue what they are supporting, which will make us go through the 80s all over again.

 

[Jezbollah]

He doesn't want to be leader. Labour winning a General Election is far down his priority order. These kind of comments coming from him doesn't surprise me - I think he's an ultra left wing activist who finds himself being a politician.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Not a cult.
Warning, may cause torment of the mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JditOy07TBc

 

[daviyoung]

Not a cult.
Warning, may cause torment of the mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JditOy07TBc

flaccid, archaic, half-arsed

 

[Baybars]

He doesn't want to be leader. Labour winning a General Election is far down his priority order. These kind of comments coming from him doesn't surprise me - I think he's an ultra left wing activist who finds himself being a politician.

He's going to destroy the labour party. And send it back decades to fix. By then this country would drowning in tory crap

 

[Audioboxer]

He's going to destroy the labour party. And send it back decades to fix. By then this country would drowning in tory crap

We're already drowning in Tory crap.

My biggest worry is while I align with lots of Corbyn stands for he's an utterly shite leader. The problem there is there is a huge chance whoever replaces him will simply be Tory-lite 2.0 and yet again the Labour party while maybe standing a better chance of winning will just be Conservative lite. Hooray!

Even without the massive issue of Corbyn, the Labour party itself is simply a trainwreck. Full of career politicians some of whom should really be in the Tory party.

 

[Baybars]

The majority of the UK parliament voted in favour of intensifying the bombing in Syria in supporting resistance against the regime.

It's whether you believe the IRA is a legitimate organisation like the British-backed Syrian rebels.

I don't know? but I'm a hippy pacifist who wouldn't kill 100,000s of innocent people in a retaliatory nuclear strike like the British PM.

ISIS is not resistance to the regime. They are not the opposition and infact slaughtered thousands of syrian rebels during the battle for idlib which the opposition won.

AS for the PM, well it's called a nuclear deterrent for a reason. If you can't transmit to the enemy that using nukes on england will cost you then what's the point? The fault lies with the aggressor who is endangering their own citizens

 

[Audioboxer]

ISIS is not resistance to the regime. They are not the opposition and infact slaughtered thousands of syrian rebels during the battle for idlib which the opposition won.

AS for the PM, well it's called a nuclear deterrent for a reason. If you can't transmit to the enemy that using nukes on england will cost you then what's the point? The fault lies with the aggressor who is endangering their own citizens

The point is not being a stupid nation that thinks someone is sitting in the shadows desperate to use a nuke on the UK in the first place.

But I digress, the country has spoken and tons of people think Trident is a fucking amazing investment and keeps this collection of islands safe from the Russians who seemingly can't wait to fuck us up.

 

[travisbickle]

ISIS is not resistance to the regime. They are not the opposition and infact slaughtered thousands of syrian rebels during the battle for idlib which the opposition won.

ISIS aren't the only resistance force in Syria, the UK are supporting other resistance forces fighting against Pro-Assad forces while fighting ISIS. And Russia are being dicks.

 

[Uzzy]

And yes, the militant tendency changed name to the socialist workers. A lot of Corbyn supporters have *no* clue what they are supporting, which will make us go through the 80s all over again.

Well at least we'll get good music again.

 

[travisbickle]

The way people talk about Corbyn, I expect no less than a new Russian Avantgarde Art movement.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The majority of the UK parliament voted in favour of intensifying the bombing in Syria in supporting resistance against the regime..

I don't think blowing up pubs in Birmingham is what they had in mind, though.

 

[Hazzuh]

Owen Jones (more or less) condemns Corbyn's leadership.

 

[Real Hero]

Owen Jones (more or less) condemns Corbyn's leadership.

He's been getting called all sorts on twitter, just because he said Corbyn relies too much on social media

 

[Maledict]

When the far left and Corbyn supporters are attacking Owen Jones you know things are bad.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Owen Jones (more or less) condemns Corbyn's leadership.

'I and my professional politician cabal are complicit in destroying the Labour party. I thought I was doing a good thing at the time even though I don't care about the Labour party more than I do left-wing politics. It has become increasingly apparent that these people are actually idiots who will ruin everything I've ever dreamed of, and worst of all they don't even do what I say anymore. I feel guilty about this and refuse to admit I made a mistake, please don't hang me faceless mob that I christened'

 

[Maledict]

'I and my professional politician cabal are complicit in destroying the Labour party. I thought I was doing a good thing at the time even though I don't care about the Labour party more than I do left-wing politics. It has become increasingly apparent that these people are actually idiots who will ruin everything I've ever dreamed of, and worst of all they don't even do what I say anymore. I feel guilty about this and refuse to admit I made a mistake, please don't hang me faceless mob that I christened'

I actually have no idea what this means.

"professional political cabal" - you mean people who spend their lives in politics?

"Doesn't care about the labour party more than I do left-wing politics" - ? He's been in labour for as long as he's been speaking?

A lot of people voted for Corbyn in the hope of something different. Hell, he only got into the contest because MPs felt the same and loaned him their votes. No-one anticipated he would be so astronomically, appallingly bad - there are numerous Corbyn supporters on GAF who say they won't vote for him anymore because of the last year.

Do you disagree with any of his points? They seem fairly sound and straight forward to me (especially around social media and messaging).

 

[Real Hero]

Billy_Pilgrim really hates anything sightly left wing I think

 

[PJV3]

Billy_Pilgrim really hates anything sightly left wing I think

Lol.

The Labour party is a funny old thing really.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Billy_Pilgrim really hates anything sightly left wing I think

Well I'm centre-left myself. I have a lot of angst over the marxist, anti-politics left however.

 

[4444244]

So, let me get this right.

Corbyn was voted in via the lefter leaning trade unions, whereas the bulk of the party members are Tory-Lites.

The Tory-Lites want to do everything possible to get rid of Corbyn, like using a constitional crisis to make a power play (fuck the citizens, lets use an opportunity!), and Corbyn's like 'I was elected into membership fair and square, so suck it'.

It seems glaringly obvious that the Labour Party as it stands is a mis-match, they have been for an age, they either need to re-invent the Labour party without union / hard left backing, or just all bugger off to a new labour / libs. Remember the Libs splitting up in the 80's?