There's no incentive to do that whatsoever, especially when there are cheaper off-the-shelf options to reach that low of a performance level. Sorry, but it's a ridiculous idea. Definitely not within the realm of possibility. If I entertain this idea, then speculation is dead because it means that literally anything is possible. It's not possible without an amount of customization that doesn't make sense. I know this for a fact. If Nintendo were really that dead set on going that weak, it would be cheaper and easier to just lower the clock speed. Again, this is the opposite extreme to beating Scorpio.
Edit: Never mind. I've really lost interest in speculation now that we've decided that there's nothing to use as a base. That WUST seems to have resulted in some form of PTSD here lol
You said it was impossible and used the 0.5 core analogy, I showed why both are wrong because a SM is best described as a SIMD unit which can be different lengths, and said I didn't even find it likely, but it was possible...Now I have PTSD. You seemed to take an open discussion quite personally later down that page...It's not, I'm just suggesting to keep an open mind and you got "muh criticism" about it.
But seriously, I completely agree with you, some people are way too sure that they know what can and can't happen on both sides of the spectrum. With Nintendo especially, it's best to keep an open mind about what is possible, what is likely and even what they are interested in creating.
Yep, literally all I was saying, keep an open mind. We haven't even seen a final form factor let alone a die shot. Nvidia based could still mean semi-custom.
I don't feel like getting into the dock debate again (especially since I have to type twice as much to state exactly what I mean now), so everything I say will be with the assumption of only one performance state unless otherwise stated. It's just easier, and really probably more realistic.
I like how you use an assumption only when it fits your idea, like Pixel C runs in multiple states because it allows you to challenge its clock, even if this info is nowhere hinted, but NX won't be able to run in multiple states because it means it could be more powerful than you assume.
He actually said a few weeks ago that from what he was hearing a lot of people on here would be disappointed so I think this matches up with what he had been hearing.
He actually said a few weeks ago that from what he was hearing a lot of people on here would be disappointed so I think this matches up with what he had been hearing.
It was when people were thinking about the existence of the home device, well before EuroGamer's feature. What he heard about was, indeed, that NX was a handheld with an HDMI-out, an hybrid. The disappointment was in reference to the home console's expectation.
The Wii U CPU was definitely not designed in 1999. That is as asinine as saying the CPU in the PS4 is from 2003 because that's when they started 64-bit x86.
Sure the Espresso was no beast of a CPU and was quite weak comparatively to the 360. But it's not the same CPU.
x86-64 isn't a core architecture, it's an instruction set. PowerPC is an instruction set, PowerPC750 (CL?) is one specific processor core architecture within that. Jaguar is one specific x86-64 architecture, it was based off Bobcat, which launched in 2011.
I always see this analogy but it doesn't work.
Now, the Espresso, based off the specific 750 core (which I first played with in my bondi blue iMac G3!) does better than you would expect at the second highest clock rate (and the highest core count, and I think the highest cache amount) the 750 has ever been at, but point being, that analogy is broken. Another one I see is the Pentium 3 based Core 2 Duo, but the Core 2 Duo introduced a new prefetch, instructions, etc. So far as we know the front end of the Espresso is unchanged after the Gamecube changes.
The other extreme is calling it a 1999 design overall - obviously 1999'ers would be awestruck by a 1.2GHz tri core 750 with 3MB cache!!
Nor would MacOS 8/9 know what to do with it, as it didn't even have preemption at the time
Looks like pretty much what we'd expect from a 500Gflop Maxwell, just about half the 1.3Tflop XBO...Is GFXbench using FP16 though? I think it is if I recall right from the A9X reviews which were controversial for that reason (Ars Technica said it was faster than the Iris Pro...Which would mean you believe Apple had something like a 20x efficiency spread over Intel or the GTX750), but I may be thinking something else.
ELI5 How easy might it be to port from current gen console/PC to NX given current specs?
Hope gaf can help explain. Industry has changed.
How simple or complicated is it for developers to take a PS4/XBOne game and compile the code to run on Pascal GPU architecture? How about a port from PC?
Is this a non-issue, just make some value changes, turn off some shaders and run the compiler OR something that requires a lot of recoding for a port?
Is the port more dependent on the system architecture Pascal, game engine like Unreal 4/Unity or the development tools Nintendo provides? If all are factors which one holds the most weight?
I like how you use an assumption only when it fits your idea, like Pixel C runs in multiple states because it allows you to challenge its clock, even if this info is nowhere hinted, but NX won't be able to run in multiple states because it means it could be more powerful than you assume.
... What? I'm just saying that I don't feel like talking about the dock possibility right now. I actually think that it'll run at higher clocks in the dock, but the previous conversations have broken me so I don't want to talk about it anymore.
Safe estimate, in my opinion, is 256 GFLOPS. Again, this is my opinion based on what I believe based on the rumors and assuming that this rumor is correct.
... What? I'm just saying that I don't feel like talking about the dock possibility right now. I actually think that it'll run at higher clocks in the dock, but the previous conversations have broken me so I don't want to talk about it anymore.
Actually i think 500gflops would be way more than that at portable resolution. it would be a pretty significant graphical leap above WiiU.
But i don't think it'll be 500gflops due to probable low clock, if i understood tech gaf well. More into the 300gflops maybe. Which would still be twice the WiiU at lower resolution (hopfully).
The N3ds and the Wii have very different GPUs and CPUs and while one can argue that they are able to display similar graphics, the way they go about displaying them are very different. The team who ported Xenoblade had to fit a square peg in a round hole.
To reverse the situation, I doubt RE:Revelations would look as good on the Wii as it does on 3ds.
Also, why are you comparing a WiiU title with a 3ds port? All iterations of the 3ds use the same 5-6 year old low-wattage, mobile, fixed function GPU at the same clock speed. The wiiU uses a much more powerful and more capable GPU comparable to those used in the xb360 and the ps3.
I agree. 3DS have all kinds of advantages over Wii when we talk about shaders.
I'm comparing Wii U with 3DS only to say that the fact that NX will have a port of Zelda don't mean that NX will be equal or above the WiiU's power only for that.
Its a nice bit of kit, a bit of a novelty, but a good one, said one exec that has got hands on with the machine. It wont appeal to PS4 fans. Nintendo seems set on trying to upgrade smartphone gamers. Thats going to be a big job for the marketing department.
Nintendo aiming for differentiation shouldn't be surprising.
If someone is expecting another PS4 and Xbone they don't know Nintendo and I'm not speaking about power.
I like how you use an assumption only when it fits your idea, like Pixel C runs in multiple states because it allows you to challenge its clock, even if this info is nowhere hinted, but NX won't be able to run in multiple states because it means it could be more powerful than you assume.
To be fair to him, the Eurogamer article makes absolutely no mention of running the device at different clock speeds. I agree it seems like the logical (and almost necessary) thing to do with this device, but it's a bit odd that they've made no mention of it, since you'd think it is an important feature of the device.
At 540p, 500GFlops might be all that is needed to run AAA multiplats. Higher resolutions will demand much more GPU power, but it's theoretically possible to get XB1/PS4 ports to run on handheld mode (assuming a 540p screen) if the GPU is that powerful.
It's the It wont appeal to PS4 fans. Nintendo seems set on trying to upgrade smartphone gamers." which gets me worried.
They did the same with Wii, it alienated core gamers and 3rd party support, they tried doing the same with Wii U by trying to get a bit of the casual tablet gamers, they failed.
Now again with the NX ?
Come on !!
I expect 3 SM at 500MHZ when the console is standalone and ~60% uplock (800MHZ) when docked. Considering what i read this morning about the Pixel C being able to passively cool a TX1 at 850MHZ in a slim tablet with throttling, i think passive cooling should be enough for a Pascal chip in a thicker box and avoid that throttling. That would mean 384 gflops standalone and 614.4 gflops when docked, which would be a huge jump compared to the Wii U. especially considering the huge architectural advantages of Pascal compared to VLIW5, and the likely better API (Vulkan or similar) that the NX will have. If the handheld screen is 720p then it should be possible to achieve 900p on the big screen and 1080p for the less demanding games.
To be fair to him, the Eurogamer article makes absolutely no mention of running the device at different clock speeds. I agree it seems like the logical (and almost necessary) thing to do with this device, but it's a bit odd that they've made no mention of it, since you'd think it is an important feature of the device.
At 540p, 500GFlops might be all that is needed to run AAA multiplats. Higher resolutions will demand much more GPU power, but it's theoretically possible to get XB1/PS4 ports to run on handheld mode (assuming a 540p screen) if the GPU is that powerful.
It's the “It won’t appeal to PS4 fans. Nintendo seems set on trying to upgrade smartphone gamers." which gets me worried.
They did the same with Wii, it alienated core gamers and 3rd party support, they tried doing the same with Wii U by trying to get a bit of the casual tablet gamers, they failed.
Now again with the NX ?
Come on !!
It's mainly a handheld. It's obviously who the target is besides existing Nintendo console/handheld owners. It's not rocket science.
Also, it fits right into the strategy for mobile, which was announced already since long time. That Nintendo sees their mobile games as an opportunity to lure more people onto their dedicated gaming devices.
It says nothing about the power or the games.
Edit: unless you're one of those still fantasising about a secret NX Scorpio.
It's the It wont appeal to PS4 fans. Nintendo seems set on trying to upgrade smartphone gamers." which gets me worried.
They did the same with Wii, it alienated core gamers and 3rd party support, they tried doing the same with Wii U by trying to get a bit of the casual tablet gamers, they failed.
Now again with the NX ?
Come on !!
I have no idea if there is a market for a dedicated gaming tablet, which to me is what the NX sounds like. But at least it sounds like an easier sell than the Wii U, which isn't really a high bar.
It was when people were thinking about the existence of the home device, well before EuroGamer's feature. What he heard about was, indeed, that NX was a handheld with an HDMI-out, an hybrid. The disappointment was in reference to the home console's expectation.
The question was about it's ability to run multiplats, not whether or not they will be made. I'm betting that some western third party games will be there year 1 (like Madden, CoD) but depending on their success they won't be there going forward.
Wait, are there actually game engines that can't output at 540p? Is that a thing? Even if they don't out of the box, isn't it a rather simple modification to get a normally 1080p game running at 540p?
Wow I have been reading this thread for a while now and we have every opinion here, from at least 3DS level to almost PS4.
My opinion is
best case scenario
500gflops for HH mode, 1tflop when docked
modest scenario
256gflops for HH and 700gflops when docked
actually either one sounds good, better than Wii U with the option on the go and TV.
My question is, if the Handheld has a 540p screen and say 500gflops, how can that be compared to the HD twins considering both factors. The HH has to push less pixels.
I'm expecting Nintendo to keep the costs of the NX down, so I'm expecting a pretty low end screen. Average power for but a decent battery. If this launches for more than $250 USD it is dead in the water... People will be thinking "Yeah nah I'd rather get a Neo/Scorpio" If Nintendo can keep it cheap then at least people pick it up as a supplementary device.
I'm expecting Nintendo to keep the costs of the NX down, so I'm expecting a pretty low end screen. Average power for but a decent battery. If this launches for more than $250 USD it is dead in the water... People will be thinking "Yeah nah I'd rather get a Neo/Scorpio" If Nintendo can keep it cheap then at least people pick it up as a supplementary device.
“It’s a nice bit of kit, a bit of a novelty, but a good one,” said one exec that has got hands on with the machine. “It won’t appeal to PS4 fans. Nintendo seems set on trying to upgrade smartphone gamers. That’s going to be a big job for the marketing department.”
Isn't that what the entirety of this thread has already gone with? The DF insiders saying a dockable portable. T1X is powerful for mobile but doesn't quite reach the current console twins, not by about half at least (and bandwidth is a further concern).
I wonder if in mobile mode, despite being lower clocked, it'll take advantage of FP16 in mobile mode games because a smaller screen makes small inconsistencies less notable. I think it's why every mobile game still looks a little funky despite all the power in phones and tablets now. Meanwhile when blown up to a large HDTV more aspects would want to use FP32, though for some it doesn't matter (I think shader effects aren't particularly picky for example)
A 512GFLOP part doing about ~50% of the XB1? That should handle XB1 games in 720p just fine, also Pascal is the current rumor, which even if all they do is go 3SM or 50% clock increase, they could hit 900p. It would be about the same as a 1.1tflop gcn console.
I'd also like to note that the Wii U in that chart is the HD 4650m which is a 352gflop part, not a 176gflops part, making the Wii U's performance about half what is shown there, or about 1/4th what the X1 is capable of.
Bruh, SMD64 is a fanboy of the highest order. The level of confirmation bias in his videos is outrageous and he refuses to accept any evidence that refute his claims about NX's power. Don't take him seriously.
Sorry but £200 ($260) for the NX "hybrid" is way to much, unless ofc it really do rival/come very close to Xbox One. If it's a 256Gflop portable/stationary "hybrid" it need to go down, WAY WAY down.
Bruh, SMD64 is a fanboy of the highest order. The level of confirmation bias in his videos is outrageous and he refuses to accept any evidence that refute his claims about NX's power. Don't take him seriously.
AFAIK, he doesn't even have sources beyond his own wishful thinking and conjecture. Well, he said he did once last week when Emily Rogers pressed him on it, but I'm pretty sure he was lying, because I don't think he's mentioned them at all since.
Aren't this years smartphones around 250-400gflops? If NX is thicker and larger than an average smartphone (larger than iPhone 6s Plus) wouldn't it be possible to reach at least 400-500gflops?
Well, a 1-1.5 TFLOPS Tegra (assuming FP32 like the consoles use) isn't the most feasible idea out there. About 700 in a docked mode is around the theoretical max assuming a chip the same size as the Tegra X1, to the best of my knowledge.
Sorry but £200 ($260) for the NX "hybrid" is way to much, unless ofc it really do rival/come very close to Xbox One. If it's a 256Gflop portable/stationary "hybrid" it need to go down, WAY WAY down.
I wouldn't want to guess at odds, but the evidence to suggest it's Pascal are as follows:
Lines up with Tegra X2 announcement/launch
Some guys on Twitter said it was
There was supposedly a fan on the handheld devkit, which wouldn't really be needed for a bog standard Tegra X1 (or below).
It's unsubstantial evidence really. But it's certainly within the realms of possibility and my own gut feeling is that this will be the case (dunno why...)
Aren't this years smartphones around 250-400gflops? If NX is thicker and larger than an average smartphone (larger than iPhone 6s Plus) wouldn't it be possible to reach at least 400-500gflops?
This thing needs to be able to stream gameplay to smart phones. How else could they achieve Mario Kart or Splatoon multiplayer on the go? Split screen would be horrendous. And who would be the one holding the screen? As has been pointed out before, a big percentage of portable gamers use their console on a train or other place where a table is not always accessible.
You all keep screaming HYBRID, well EITHER you drop the hybrid crap or you keep it, and if you keep it the NX ALSO replaces the Wii U (home console). And as a home console Xbox One at around £220 (right now), well the the NX price need to go way way down, or specs up to match it.
AFAIK, he doesn't even have sources beyond his own wishful thinking and conjecture. Well, he said he did once last week when Emily Rogers pressed him on it, but I'm pretty sure he was lying, because I don't think he's mentioned them at all since.
