Support NeoGAF

[Skittzo0413]

There really isn't anything in that Gameblog post which seems new, besides the VR chip (which I wouldn't put too much stock in) and the overall positive feeling developers are having (which most developers will say about any launch). Multiplat ports should be doable based on the hardware we've been hearing, likely with some downgrades, and as Thraktor has posted UE4 will work very well on nVidia hardware.

Is there anything more in that article, or is that all we have? Not that they necessarily have valid sources, but again most of what was posted about it isn't really anything new.

 

[BDGAME]

Speaking of CucoUSA again, some days ago he talks about something that looks like a egpu, but the official source says it a VR accessory.

He don't believes it is for VR because the NX is not strong enough, but I think he is wrong.

With 2 GPUs (one internal and the egpu) the NX will be able to handle the VR.

 

[weepy]

I get where you are coming from regarding a console gamer, but how does this decrease value for a handheld gamer? I can't see handheld gamers being effected negatively by a hybrid, but I may be missing something.

Think about it: it probably had to sacrifice a truly compact/sleek design just to get enough power to justify it being a hybrid, so it won't be fitting in anyone's pockets anytime soon (though, what portable does nowadays?).

 

[Father_Brain]

Everything in the Gameblog post seems plausible except the VR chip, which... yeah.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Thank you for the translation!

I mean, like I said in the MCV thread, Europe is being especially leaky lately, so who knows. I'm sure there are some rumblings going out though regardless.



I thought I had heard that before, but I thought it was wrong. Thank you for the confirmation!

Sorry we're not allowed to believe this rumor now since it's too positive lol!

 

[Plinko]

Gameblog's latest info

"nos sources nous ont confirmé que des jeux PS4 actuels pourraient tourner sur Nintendo NX. Des tests de portage auraient d'ailleurs été entrepris avec succès."

"Our sources confirmed that current PS4 games can run on the Nx, Porting tests have been carried out successfully

"En revanche, les portages demanderait une optimisation particulière tant l'architecture générale de la NX serait différente de ce que propose la PS4 et la Xbox One. Une fois de plus, le talent et les moyens déployés par les éditeurs feront la différence."

"On the other hand,the ports demand special optimisation due to the different architecture from the XB0 and PS4. Once again, the talent and methods used by des will make the difference."

"nos sources nous ont aussi indiqué que la NX disposerait d'une puce dédiée à la Réalité Virtuelle et Augmentée."

"Our sources also indicated that NX has a chip dedicated to VR and AR"

"Les dernières versions des moteurs Unreal Engine et Unity Engine tournaient très bien sur Nintendo NX."

"Recent versions of unity and Unreal Engine run very well on Nx"

"il nous a été confirmé que la NX serait une machine infiniment plus accessible et mieux préparée technologiquement que ne l'était la Wii U. "

"It was confirmed to us that NX will be a machine infinitely more accessible and better prepared technologically than Wii U was"

"ous les échos que nous récolté auprès de personnes ayant pu approcher les premiers kits ou ayant été au contact direct de ce qui se prépare sont unanimes : le sentiment général se montre particulièrement positif. Oui, la Nintendo NX sera différente de ses concurrentes. Oui, elle est intéressante. "

"The feedback from people in contact with the first dev kits is unanimous, the feeling is especially positive. Nx will be different from the other machines and interesting"

Sorry for the quick and dirty translation.

We heard the exact same thing about "devs needs to specialize ports" for Wii U launch, sadly.

 

[lwilliams3]

There really isn't anything in that Gameblog post which seems new, besides the VR chip (which I wouldn't put too much stock in) and the overall positive feeling developers are having (which most developers will say about any launch). Multiplat ports should be doable based on the hardware we've been hearing, likely with some downgrades, and as Thraktor has posted UE4 will work very well on nVidia hardware.

Is there anything more in that article, or is that all we have? Not that they necessarily have valid sources, but again most of what was posted about it isn't really anything new.

I agree. Assuming that the source is even legit, the VR/AR chip could probably be as little as a separate ARM handling some tasks without using the main CPU.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I might have missed this before, you're saying that Pascal architecture in general is designed to easily connect to an external GPU?

I know we have reports saying that Nintendo is not targeting PS4 players and not interested in playing the specs game (which are all very likely true) but clearly they considered expanding processing capability when they filed the SCD patent, whether or not it will be used. It just makes way too much sense to me to offer an expansion pack upgrade for use with the dock (or being the dock) on launch day for people who want a console experience comparable to the PS4.

Really the only downsides to that I can see is potentially fragmenting the user base, though games on this upgraded dock could theoretically be run on the handheld at 540p, and potentially upscaled to 1080p through the base dock. Does anyone else have good reasons why Nintendo shouldn't offer a relatively cheap expansion pack?

Not that they necessarily would, since like I said above they don't seem to care about it but conventional wisdom says to me that it would essentially let them have their cake and eat it too with very little in the way of drawbacks.

Yes and no. It's not intended to be for an external GPU afaik, but it theoretically could if the dock connects via PCIe.

Really hoping the NX does something like that and goes beyond just clocking the Tegra higher in docked mode. Connecting to an eGPU base could easily bring them past the 8th gen twin baseline. The CPU cores are already Jaguar competitive depending on what they are and how many, it's just the GPU that mainly needs the extension.

Now the question is how the connection and memory is handled. No unified pool then, but probably similar to the Surface Book with the dedicated GPU in the base having its own memory that can disconnect from the system. How much and what bandwidth on each side then is the question.

It would switch to more PC-like memory allocation in that case.

 

[Night Angel]

With how vehemently Nintendo has spoken against VR in the past and the associated costs of VR, I'mma call bullshit.

 

[Maxrunner]

That gameblog rumor sounds a little positive.

It's gotta be false then.

fixed for how gaf judge Nintendo related rumours.

 

[Eradicate]

Sorry we're not allowed to believe this rumor now since it's too positive lol!

LOL!!! Makes complete sense!

We heard the exact same thing about "devs needs to specialize ports" for Wii U launch, sadly.

I know we're entering a new era with middleware and all, but could they be primarily talking about making games for ARM and/or NVIDIA hardware now?

Plus, there always seems to be some sort of hardware hiccup each console, so maybe it just hasn't come out yet what that is! Hopefully it's all easier now though as they seem to be working a lot on their own SDK and such. But, again, who knows!

Ahh, my head was in the game processing chip space, anything body tracking would of course need something like that. Interesting.


Hey...If the NX portable part can be used as a Cardboard/GearVR like display and processor for VR, at a low price that would sell like gangbusters...

Exactly! I mean, do I honestly think this thing will be like Oculus? No, but there are certain setups, like the Cardboard/GearVR setup you mentioned, that could do it. But, what's really neat to think about is how Nintendo has used combinations of sensors and stuff in the past to make things happen. I love that glasses-less 3D patent because of how it uses camera tracking with sensor recognition to achieve a really cool effect.

It may not be totally VR, but I don't doubt at all there will be some neat 3D and/or AR-related-ish things it could potentially do!

 

[Dark Cloud]

I think we should remember some stuff Scott Moffitt said. It really speaks volumes about the NX

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/06/nintendo_outlines_key_goals_to_ensure_nx_success

And certainly there are other factors, like third-party content. Our mission is to create the largest install base possible so that third-party developers will want to bring their content to our systems.

There's a tendency for people to focus on certain publishers or certain titles. But when you step back and take a look at it, we have great publisher relationships with companies like Ubisoft – which had some exciting announcements this week – Capcom, and Warner Bros. They have been strong and will continue to be strong partners in the future.
Having said that, what will attract even more partners to our platform — which, of course, is something we'd like to do — is having a piece of hardware that provides interesting ways for these companies to bring their game creations to life, one that's easy to program and work on, and that has a large enough install base of game fans that are looking for a variety of content.

 

[blu]

It was established a couple of years ago by Marcan that the WiiU cpus are : "1.243125GHz, exactly. 3 PowerPC 750 type cores (similar to Wii's Broadway, but more cache)."

Yeah sure we're still using x86 architecture but no one is using an upclocked pentium 3 with more cache which is what the WiiU is doing in equivalence.

Well, then you'd be surprised to learn intel Core uarchitecture was essentially a Pentium-m with a few elements from NetBurst. Then Nehalem introduced HT (again, after its temporary absence from Core), some more caches and another level of predictors. And then SNB introduced uop caches. And it's essentially been 'a few more entries in that buffer, a few new caches there' ever since.

So yes, in a sense you're using a very refined p3 for a desktop (unless you're using AMD, of course).

/reductio ad absurdum is fun

 

[J@hranimo]

With how vehemently Nintendo has spoken against VR in the past and the associated costs of VR, I'mma call bullshit.

I would call it futureproofing, not bullshit tbh.

 

[Earendil]

I mean well

We know you do, man. It's all good.

 

[Easy_D]

The french info doesn't sound so farfetched at first until you realise the NX isn't a home console, it's a portable, it'll be constrained by whatever it's capable of doing while portable. On the 1-10 scale, how legit does it sound to those of you who are tech savvy? Because it sounds a bit too good to be true.

With how vehemently Nintendo has spoken against VR in the past and the associated costs of VR, I'mma call bullshit.

Yeah, didn't the Gamecube have stereoscopic 3D capabilities as well?

 

[Graphics Horse]

I would call it futureproofing, not bullshit tbh.

Future proofing for VR would mean a 1080p+ OLED screen. 🤔
I'd expect it to have decent sensor chips in there VR or no VR.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Well, then you'd be surprised to learn intel Core uarchitecture was essentially a Pentium-m with a few elements from NetBurst. Then Nehalem introduced HT (again, after its temporary absence from Core), some more caches and another level of predictors. And then SNB introduced uop caches. And it's essentially been 'a few more entries in that buffer, a few new caches there' ever since.

So yes, in a sense you're using a very refined p3 for a desktop (unless you're using AMD, of course).

/reductio ad absurdum is fun

Yes, because Skylake and Netbusrst are clearly exactly as similar as Expresso and Gekko.

Seriously, are you saying that Wii U is using a modern CPU by virtue of releasing in 2012? Honestly, I think you're the one spreading strawman BS at this point, not me.

 

[MacTag]

We heard the exact same thing about "devs needs to specialize ports" for Wii U launch, sadly.

The statement makes sense potentially going from x86/AMD to ARM/Nvidia, but it still won't be the same scenario we had with Wii U. Architecturally Wii U had more in common with it's port targets (PPC/AMD in 360 and even PPC legacy in PS3) but the issue there was more different priorities (CPU load for PS360, GPU load for Wii U) and the fact Wii U evidently launched with awful tools and support in place. The latter in particular sounds like it'll be less of an issue for NX with a lot of priority being put on making the system easy to develop for and middleware support.

 

[DantesLink]

If the NX does turn out to be a handheld; then among all the rumors firing up this past month, this is one I'm hopeful for. A more energy efficient GPU is paramount.

 

[Easy_D]

How about Xbox had to rush Scorpio out because even the new Nintendo handheld would look on a par with it?

The S is clearly the rushed out Scorpio, it's even in the name, they rushed it out so fast they only had time to add the S

Yes, because Skylake and Netbusrst are clearly exactly as similar as Expresso and Gekko.

Seriously, are you saying that Wii U is using a modern CPU by virtue of releasing in 2012? Honestly, I think you're the one spreading strawman BS at this point, not me.

I think what he's saying that you wouldn't get the same results if you just put 3 Wii CPU cores together and called it a day.

 

[J@hranimo]

Future proofing for VR would mean a 1080p+ OLED screen. 🤔
I'd expect it to have decent sensor chips in there VR or no VR.

Well you know what they say, never count Nintendo out!

 

[MuchoMalo]

I think what he's saying that you wouldn't get the same results if you just put 3 Wii CPU cores together and called it a day.

Well, he's gonna have to prove that one then, because by all accounts that's exactly what would happen if you upped the Wii's CPU specs to Wii U's. Plus, his argument against me was that Wii U isn't using an ancient architecture.

 

[lwilliams3]

The french info doesn't sound so farfetched at first until you realise the NX isn't a home console, it's a portable, it'll be constrained by whatever it's capable of doing while portable. On the 1-10 scale, how legit does it sound to those of you who are tech savvy? Because it sounds a bit too good to be true.

The most skeptical part is the AR/VR chip.

 

[blu]

Yes, because Skylake and Netbusrst are clearly exactly as similar as Expresso and Gekko.

Seriously, are you saying that Wii U is using a modern CPU by virtue of releasing in 2012?

You clearly missed what I said. NetBurst has been out since Core got in. And yes, Core and Skylake have tons of similarities, especially if we conveniently disregard all the multi-core provisioning, LLCs, various specialized caches, predictors and prefetchers that have been introduced since then.

Now, if you stop looking foolishly at uarchs not called Intel * for a second, you'll see that Espresso introduced multi-core provisioning (which in itself in a massive treat, coherency models and all) and a hugely revamped cache hierarchy, with direct connection to the GPU's eDRAM (something even XB1 does not have).

So yes, as mind-boggling as it sounds to you, Espresso uarch is an 2011 implementation of the Gekko ISA.

 

[Bitanator]

Wow this thread grows so fast.

Oh shit, the one man that can burn the world.

 

[Plinko]

The most skeptical part is the AR/VR chip.

Perhaps. I thought they had Gamecube ready for 3D, and 3DS has AR, so with a portable it may not be that ridiculous.

 

[optimiss]

Think about it: it probably had to sacrifice a truly compact/sleek design just to get enough power to justify it being a hybrid, so it won't be fitting in anyone's pockets anytime soon (though, what portable does nowadays?).

Yeah, my phone doesn't even fit in most of my pockets. The real money is going to be in selling larger pockets. Mark my words! Nintendo Pocket™ coming 2017.

 

[Anth0ny]

On the other hand,the ports demand special optimisation due to the different architecture from the XB0 and PS4.

sounds real to me

 

[orioto]

I have to say i'm trying hard to be hyped and to forget the potential truth but i was already claiming during E3 that many things pointed at Nintendo designing a casual heavy machine.

I hope they can have what they need for that, and what we want from them at teh same time. Cause that's precisely what killed the WiiU in the egg. Being a little of this and little of that.

I still think the NX is a "magical" device that allows kids to do all sort of things and is self sufficient. I think that's the concept, from all we've heard. That gameblog rumor goes in the same direction again, Ubisoft talked in that direction again.

A machine that does everything and more, party spirited, with probably some wii play game to showcase all that.

The question is whether it'll will be able to satisfy gamer's need in the same time. But this time, as it's their portable, their main console, it'll have the multimillion sellers ips anyway.

 

[optimiss]

Future proofing for VR would mean a 1080p+ OLED screen. 🤔
I'd expect it to have decent sensor chips in there VR or no VR.

The other problem with mobile VR is drift. Unless they can get inside-out positional tracking working it is a futile effort to introduce a mobile VR product since the experience would not be up to Nintendo standards.

 

[MuchoMalo]

nvm

 

[Vena]

Well, that's your opinion. I don't share it. This is clearly a subjective matter, so I'd appreciate if you didn't call me "BS" over it. Thank you.

At best, it's a minor update to a 2001 CPU architecture. I refuse to call it modern over something so minor. You're just being anal.

There is like zero opinion involved here.

 

[mikeyvids]

Perhaps. I thought they had Gamecube ready for 3D, and 3DS has AR, so with a portable it may not be that ridiculous.

VR chip. Controllers that separate from screen.

Imagine experiencing Breath of the Wild HD, handheld & VR all on the same machine.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Well, that's your opinion. I don't share it. This is clearly a subjective matter, so I'd appreciate if you didn't call me "BS" over it. Thank you.

At best, it's a minor update to a 2001 CPU architecture. I refuse to call it modern over something so minor. You're just being anal.

I thought you would have been a better contributor by now considering you basically live in this thread

 

[catbrush]

With how vehemently Nintendo has spoken against VR in the past and the associated costs of VR, I'mma call bullshit.

If the NX is loaded with sensors, eye, head and body tracking, it could provide an awesome VR-like experience without the isolating properties of strapping a HMD onto your face.

 

[Graphics Horse]

The other problem with mobile VR is drift. Unless they can get inside-out positional tracking working it is a futile effort to introduce a mobile VR product since the experience would not be up to Nintendo standards.

Tbh I wasn't even thinking mobile VR, more for home use. they could always have a camera in the base station or whatever.

 

[ozfunghi]

And that's boring. We were talking about 1-1.5TF Tegra chips 20 pages ago, and now were compromising down to 500GF. 20 more pages and we'll be down to 250GF or less.

Everybody is still talking about the same chip. That being the Pascal update (successor) of the X1. The X1 reaches 500 hiphops or 1 porkchop at half(!) precision. But the chip will likely be underclocked, or at least for portable mode (when not docked/charging). I won't comment on the question if Nvidia porkchops taste better than AMD for the same amount.

So the question is, how Nintendo will take advantage of the new more power efficient chip. Reaching the same performance but at a lower power draw, or the same power draw but better performance. Maybe they can go for performance when docked, and for lower power draw when portable. Somebody said the pascal successor would perform 60% better, that could theoretically put it towards 800 hiphops or 1.6 porkchops at half precision. But half precision can only be used in certain cases, to my understanding. So in best case scenario, we could see Xbox1 performance when docked. In worst case scenario, we will see WiiU+ performance when docked. I Guess.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Actually, it's not worth it. I'm done with this subject.

 

[KingSnake]

NX won't have neither the screen resolution nor the power needed to run VR games at a decent level. Maybe some 360 videos and very simple apps, but no more than that. AR could happen on a basic level. But I wouldn't put too much hope in this Gameblog info.

 

[mikeyvids]

If the NX is loaded with sensors, eye, head and body tracking, it could provide an awesome VR-like experience without the isolating properties of strapping a HMD onto your face.

Maybe some of us prefer to be shielded away from reality with a hmd. Can't we have both?

 

[lwilliams3]

Well, that's your opinion. I don't share it.

In other words, they couldn't just attached three Gecko/Broadway cores together, overclocked it, and called it a day. They were not designed to be multi-core or to run beyond 1GHz, so they put some good effort in redesigning these cores. They also needed it to work with recent-tech eDRAM too.

Expresso is one heck of a customized job, and that is a fact. Now, rather or not BC with the Wii was worth all of that is definitely subjective.

 

[Skittzo0413]

If the NX is loaded with sensors, eye, head and body tracking, it could provide an awesome VR-like experience without the isolating properties of strapping a HMD onto your face.

Before the Eurogamer rumor I was super confident in my guess which is similar to yours, about it having a lot of sensors, especially eye-tracking. I suppose it's still possible with this rumor, and I think it would be very successful and very different, and likely cost as much (for them to build) as just adding a few cameras to the portable.

Everybody is still talking about the same chip. That being the Pascal update (successor) of the X1. The X1 reaches 500 hiphops or 1 porkchop at half(!) precision. But the chip will likely be underclocked, or at least for portable mode (when not docked/charging). I won't comment on the question if Nvidia porkchops taste better than AMD for the same amount.

So the question is, how Nintendo will take advantage of the new more power efficient chip. Reaching the same performance but at a lower power draw, or the same power draw but better performance. Maybe they can go for performance when docked, and for lower power draw when portable. Somebody said the pascal successor would perform 60% better, that could theoretically put it towards 800 hiphops or 1.6 porkchops at half precision. But half precision can only be used in certain cases, to my understanding. So in best case scenario, we could see Xbox1 performance when docked. In worst case scenario, we will see WiiU+ performance when docked. I Guess.

This post A) is hilarious, B) is fairly accurate, and C) made me hungry. Well done.

 

[MuchoMalo]

In other words, they couldn't just attached three Gecko/Broadway cores together, overclocked it, and called it a day. They were not designed to be multi-core or to run beyond 1GHz, so they put some good effort in redesigning these cores. They also needed it to work with recent-tech eDRAM too.

Expresso is one heck of a customized job, and that is a fact. Now, rather or not BC with the Wii was worth all that is definitely subjective.

I deleted the post. Leave me alone.

 

[catbrush]

Maybe some of us prefer to be shielded away from reality with a hmd. Can't we have both?

I don't mind if you want to shield yourself away from reality. Go right ahead. I was just under the impression that the isolating properties were where Nintendo took issue.

 

[mikeyvids]

NX won't have neither the screen resolution nor the power needed to run VR games at a decent level. Maybe some 360 videos and very simple apps, but no more than that. AR could happen on a basic level. But I wouldn't put too much hope in this Gameblog info.

How could [they] do something like this, build up a little boy's hopes and then smash all his dreams to pieces?

 

[mikeyvids]

I don't mind if you want to shield yourself away from reality. Go right ahead. I was just under the impression that the isolating properties were where Nintendo took issue.

Agreed Nintendo could do something interesting. There was that video of someone using Wii remotes to head for pseudo 3D on big screen.

I just hope if they go this route we get more than 3 or 4 half baked tech demos glorified into playable games i.e. Project Giant Robo VR edition. At that point I'd rather lose the feature than was my time or their resources.

 

[catbrush]

Before the Eurogamer rumor I was super confident in my guess which is similar to yours, about it having a lot of sensors, especially eye-tracking. I suppose it's still possible with this rumor, and I think it would be very successful and very different, and likely cost as much (for them to build) as just adding a few cameras to the portable.

Would it cost a lot for them to add these features? Eye tracking is already implemented in the New 3DS, low latency gyroscopes are already in the Wii U gamepad, and if the "VR" isn't stereoscopic, just a single viewport the there wouldn't take a performance hit.

I don't have the source on me, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but didn't nVidia show off new VR tech recently? I recall hearing about the ability to adjust the viewport position on a driver level to lower motion tracking latency.

Edit:

To people talking about VR: Google "Nvidia Simultaneous Multi-projection" and "Lens Matched Shading"

Thank you.

 

[ozfunghi]

This post A) is hilarious, B) is fairly accurate, and C) made me hungry. Well done.

We aim to please.

NX won't have neither the screen resolution nor the power needed to run VR games at a decent level. Maybe some 360 videos and very simple apps, but no more than that. AR could happen on a basic level. But I wouldn't put too much hope in this Gameblog info.

AR already happened on a basic level 5 years ago on 3DS.

 

[Vash63]

Would it cost a lot for them to add these features? Eye tracking is already implemented in the New 3DS, low latency gyroscopes are already in the Wii U gamepad, and if the "VR" isn't stereoscopic, just a single viewport the there wouldn't take a performance hit.

I don't have the source on me, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but didn't nVidia show off new VR tech recently? I recall hearing about the ability to adjust the viewport position on a driver level to lower motion tracking latency.

You can't have non-stereoscopic VR... Unless one eye is blacked out.