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(RUMOR) New Splinter Cell in development, Michael Ironside returning as Sam Fisher

I don't play in english, personally I don't care that much about Ironside but I'm happy for those who care. Really hope is announced soon an released in a decent time frame, aka don't send it to die at the end of 2017 with all the big AAA games.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I still like Chaos Theory the best, but I understand that the pace of movement as well as Sam's abilities need to evolve from that game. I understand that desire which drove Conviction and Blacklist. Part of the reason MGSV is so good is because of how much it expanded what Snake can do and how dyanmic his movement feels. It gave players a lot more options, and that's what matters in stealth games.

My issue with the newer Splinter Cell games though is the level design. Blacklist did have an emphasis on player choice but Chaos Theory oddly felt more immersive. I think it's because the levels in it felt more like "real" places that you could interact with. You spend most of Blacklist hopping around the geometry and sneaking behind chest-high walls like Nathan Drake. Chaos Theory's levels felt somewhat more intimate, letting you use the environment itself (lights, devices, computers, etc) to fool and get around enemies.

But you still did have a lot of shit to collect and outposts to clear out, having empty space between the interesting bits is not groundbreaking, (hello, Red Dead, Shadow of the Colossus), certainly not the way it was used in MGSV, where the world actively goes against the narrative. You never spot a single rebel in the open world actually rebelling against the military force. Yet they constantly harp on your actions helping them out. It's the quietest warzone ever.

In my opinion even MGSV's level design had somewhat of a better sense of place than Blacklist, though I'll admit for the most part Ground Zeroes had better level design than Phantom Pain, and my ideal third person stealth game would probably be more like the former but expanded into a full game.

Phantom Pain's problem with its open world is that very few of the missions actually take advantage of that open world. Most missions, especially side ops, take place in small areas that while themselves might be well-designed, don't really give the game much reason to be open-world. There are a few missions that encompass multiple enemy bases and the space between them and those can become pretty epic, but they're probably too few and far between. The individual main bases are well-designed and some are set on what are essentially linear paths linking open-ended areas. These actually remind me more of the original Crysis.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
In my opinion even MGSV's level design had somewhat of a better sense of place than Blacklist, though I'll admit for the most part Ground Zeroes had better level design than Phantom Pain, and my ideal third person stealth game would probably be more like the former but expanded into a full game.
GZ is one of the best examples of how to do open level design in a mini sandbox.

Phantom Pain's problem with its open world is that very few of the missions actually take advantage of that open world. Most missions, especially side ops, take place in small areas that while themselves might be well-designed, don't really give the game much reason to be open-world. There are a few missions that encompass multiple enemy bases and the space between them and those can become pretty epic, but they're probably too few and far between. The individual main bases are well-designed and some are set on what are essentially linear paths linking open-ended areas. These actually remind me more of the original Crysis.
That was exactly my issue with the open world in that game, it didn't really have a reason to exist, they really could've cut it and gone for a GZ style design where you just select missions and end up at the base. Would've cut down on so much unnecessary time spent on traversal.
 

Stiler

Member
Really really hope this is true. Would love to see a new next gen one and with Ironside back it'd be icing on the cake.
 
That was exactly my issue with the open world in that game, it didn't really have a reason to exist, they really could've cut it and gone for a GZ style design where you just select missions and end up at the base. Would've cut down on so much unnecessary time spent on traversal.

Isn't that what TPP basically is though? You select a main op and you're thrown into a bit sized version of the open world. Sure, sometimes you need to run a bit to get between different outposts/bases, but nothing is all that far when playing a main mission.

Navigating the open world dealing with side ops is a pain in the ass, not going to debate that.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Isn't that what TPP basically is though? You select a main op and you're thrown into a bit sized version of the open world. Sure, sometimes you need to run a bit to get between different outposts/bases, but nothing is all that far when playing a main mission.

Navigating the open world dealing with side ops is a pain in the ass, not going to debate that.
You're usually a lot farther than you need to be.
 

dex3108

Member
To be honest if they don't put Ironside in mocap suit and just use his voice I think that performance could be worse than in Blacklist. Blacklist guy maybe isn't Ironside but he did full motion capture and that helped a lot.
 
Can't help but cringe at those who still insist on comparing MGS and SC on an Apples-to-Apples basis.

The feel of each series has always been vastly different from the other. Not fair for Ubi to suddenly be expected to treat MGS V as a barometer. I'd rather they use the blueprint from Blacklist and build from there.
 

Bittercup

Member
That would be great. Blacklist was a very good Splinter Cell game so I'm already excited if there will be a new game.

I hope it's not just Michael Ironside returning as Sam but Claudia Besso will be back as Grim as well. I always loved their interactions together and that was integral to the tone of the older games. This got unfortunately completely lost in Blacklist for me with the new voices. And the writing didn't help either.
So trying to get back more to Chaos Theory in tone and writing but with the blacklist gameplay would be my ideal combination.
 
You're usually a lot farther than you need to be.

Very rarely does that happen. Most missions have multiple layers to them that require gathering intel and exploring the open space. You may not be always dropped near the base/objective location itself, but you're usually always near an area which contributes to the actual objective. Sure, they could just drop you right infront of the goal itself, but then there would be no build up or tension to most of those missions.
 
You're usually a lot farther than you need to be.

It's been sometime since I played it, but from my recollection, that's generally because the game accommodates a variety of different playstyles in tackling the missions.

I replayed through a lot of missions under personal constraints (no detection, no knockouts, etc depending on the mission) and found that there's always a couple of things going on even where you are dropped off further away that might not be useful for one approach but is for another.

And in missions where characters arrive via the road in some capacity, you're always typically dropped off fairly close to a point of interest.

In the mission with the 3 commanders who have a conversation together in one of the towns, IIRC, you are dropped a short trek away from the jeep path of one of the commanders.
 

AJ_Wings

Member
Sounds like it's early in development.

As much as I love the guy, I kinda hope Ironside doesn't come back as a leading Sam. I would love to see him be the Lambert of a new team.
 
You've done yourself a disservice! Go play Blacklist!

Is Blacklist a sequel like Thief Deadly Shadows -> Thi4f | Hitman Blood Money -> Absolution?

The only reason I haven't tried it is because Conviction was a far cry from what I loved about the series. Blacklist looks like it continues the "modernization" trend where new sequels borrow some elements from a series but add in QTEs, cinematic junk and "dumbed down" mechanics.

Edit: Thanks for the reply! I'll pick it up on sale.
 

Chola

Banned
GZ is one of the best examples of how to do open level design in a mini sandbox.


That was exactly my issue with the open world in that game, it didn't really have a reason to exist, they really could've cut it and gone for a GZ style design where you just select missions and end up at the base. Would've cut down on so much unnecessary time spent on traversal.

MGS GZ and almost all stealth games are strictly designed for infiltration, small tightly designed levels with lots of guards. TPP design philosophy is different,sometimes you have to chase a convoy, ambush trucks and tanks, recuse transported prisoners and to do all that you need huge spaces for player to move freely and execute his plan. In most stealth games When you trigger an alarm , game instantly ends or you get very little time but in TPP you can chase them down with a horse or a jeep, Lay traps and ambush them or drop a rocket launcher at the very last second and take them out while trying to get away on an helicopter. TPP is perfect the way it is.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Can't help but cringe at those who still insist on comparing MGS and SC on an Apples-to-Apples basis.

The feel of each series has always been vastly different from the other. Not fair for Ubi to suddenly be expected to treat MGS V as a barometer. I'd rather they use the blueprint from Blacklist and build from there.

The thing is, MGSV started playing by a doctrine much more similar to western stealth games like Thief and Chaos Theory in terms of the fundamental philosophy: put the player in a sandbox that runs on semi-autonomous systems. Dishonored does a good job of echoing this too. The control systems are all different, but the level design and systems philosophy is generally the same between all those games. Chaos Theory (and maybe the G 6 version of Double Agent) is the only Splinter Cell that completely felt like this.

Blacklist by comparison felt more like a standard third person shooter with stealth arenas.

MGS GZ and almost all stealth games are strictly designed for infiltration, small tightly designed levels with lots of guards. TPP design philosophy is different,sometimes you have to chase a convoy, ambush trucks and tanks, recuse transported prisoners and to do all that you need huge spaces for player to move freely and execute his plan. In most stealth games When you trigger an alarm , game instantly ends or you get very little time but in TPP you can chase them down with a horse or a jeep, Lay traps and ambush them or drop a rocket launcher at the very last second and take them out while trying to get away on an helicopter. TPP is perfect the way it is.

That element definitely comes into play in the bigger main missions that involve multiple large locations. The ones that are just in one place though usually incorporate a space smaller than GZ.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
I don't trust Ubisoft to deliver a quality game but Ironside returning as Fisher is a step in the right direction. They should probably just make a new character though, unless this is a "one last mission" thing with an aged Sam.
 
Is Blacklist a sequel like Thief Deadly Shadows -> Thi4f | Hitman Blood Money -> Absolution?

The only reason I haven't tried it is because Conviction was a far cry from what I loved about the series. Blacklist looks like it continues the "modernization" trend where new sequels borrow some elements from a series but add in QTEs, cinematic junk and "dumbed down" mechanics.
Blacklist is the best Splinter Cell after Chaos Theory
 
almost. the original xbox version of double agent is fucking amazing (pretty much chaos theory 3.5).

i need a blacklist remaster for xb1/ps4 ubisoft!

Double agent is really good, so I tend to agree.

I have double agent and chaos theory on steam... I should get around to playing them both again.
 

Plasma

Banned
Glad they're making a new one, not so glad Ironside is back. He sounded drunk when he was reading his lines in Conviction.
 

Guardian

Banned
I would really like having Sam in Lambert's role and have a new up and coming female be the new focus.

Would be cool to have several co-op missions with Sam and the new girl.
 

KingJ2002

Member
Needs to happen... especially with MGS disappearing for a few... Splinter Cell could become the defacto stealth title.

My guess is an unveil at VGX in december.
 

Karak

Member
This is awesome. From V to even Highlander 2 and ER, and then of course games the dude is a favorite of mine.
He has been insanely ill as of late and I admit I get a bit bothered thinking of that dude not being around. When he is in something I check it out regardless

If you got him and Jason Beghe in the same room I bet they would start earthquakes lol. Those guys voices crack me up. I want to have the both an a game and try to understand them.
 
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