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[tryagainlater]

There's lots of videos out there how Sean Murray was lying about features right up to launch. Maybe those features will be patched in but we haven't heard a peep out of Hello Games in a number of weeks so I can't blame people for being frustrated. Yes, I think consumers should be more careful and not buy games close to launch but it would be great for devs to be less terrible too.

 

[Zaph]

There's lots of videos out there how Sean Murray was lying about features right up to launch. Maybe those features will be patched in but we haven't heard a peep out of Hello Games in a number of weeks so I can't blame people for being frustrated. Yes, I think consumers should be more careful and not buy games close to launch but it would be great for devs to be less terrible too.

Yup, this game is quite unique in that sense - it's far beyond just a few tarted-up bullshots. Even if you want to give Sean/HG the benefit of the doubt and assume they genuinely thought those features would make it for launch, the post-release silence has been deafening. If those features really were almost ready, any other dev would be talking about the upcoming patch by now.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

"Marketing" makes it also seem like Adam Jensen is a killing/stealth machine with unlimited powers. Yet in the game I am constantly frustrated by the limitations of the systems. Can I get a refund for that too? I don't think so and I think this is a terrible reason to ask for a refund.

This is apples and oranges. The developers of Deus Ex aren't out saying "yeah you can just spam powers as much as you want."

But besides that, if you don't like the way your powers are limited, of course you should be allowed to get a refund. What shitty world of acceptance do you live in where you can't get your money back for a product that isn't doing what you want?

 

[MassiveNights]

Yup, this game is quite unique in that sense - it's far beyond just a few tarted-up bullshots. Even if you want to give Sean/HG the benefit of the doubt and assume they genuinely thought those features would make it for launch, the post-release silence has been deafening. If those features really were almost ready, any other dev would be talking about the upcoming patch by now.

"We're totally focused on customer support right now. Then we'll move onto improving and adding features to the game"

 

[Jintor]

But besides that, if you don't like the way your powers are limited, of course you should be allowed to get a refund. What shitty world of acceptance do you live in where you can't get your money back for a product that isn't doing what you want?

woah woah woah. too far ranging. what is advertised is better. the customer could be a buffoon or a lunatic who wants their dishwasher to fly.

 

[Curufinwe]

Am I right to think that Sony really fucked hello games over?

They seemed to have allowed things to spin out of control in a way that it wouldn't if they didn't try to make it a major release.

No, you're not right.

 

[derFeef]

This is apples and oranges. The developers of Deus Ex aren't out saying "yeah you can just spam powers as much as you want."

But besides that, if you don't like the way your powers are limited, of course you should be allowed to get a refund. What shitty world of acceptance do you live in where you can't get your money back for a product that isn't doing what you want?

I dunno there needs to be drawn a line somewhere. With that logic I could complain about anything and get a refund.

 

[stump sock]

I dunno there needs to be drawn a line somewhere. With that logic I could complain about anything and get a refund.

we'd be better off if companies lived in fear of such a reality.

 

[derFeef]

we'd be better off if companies lived in fear of such a reality.

That's true as well though. Fair enough.

 

[Strax]

Is it PAX again? Ugh. I hate PAX so much. It's garbage and zero value for me.

Agreed.

 

[sammyCYBORG]

If anyone wants something to tide them over PAX, I'd suggest Alexis' and Drew's first Halo marathon.

I've been re-watching it over the last few days and it's great.

 

[Twin Tails]

God Eater 2: Rage Burst: Quick Look

 

[Salarians]

I still can't believe Scarlett Johansson knows Hatsune Miku

she even has her personal phone number

 

[kiguel182]

Checking the refund thread, the guy who got a refund after 50 hours was experiencing a crash every 20 minutes once he got that far. That's worthy of a discount. I'm all in favour of the refund thing if it gets Sony and Microsoft to be more open about refunds as well as getting rid of overly zealous marketing campaigns by devs. As over the top as I think this outrage will get, I'm hoping it will be a net positive for the industry. I'm really glad I had zero investment in NMS after all this.

That case falls into technical problems. If the game is broken past a certain length it's still broken.

The 2 hours steam thing is great and should be a standard but abusing that isn't something I can defend. And like, NMS marketing wasn't something like Aliens but whatever.

Also, publishers are not your friends but they also aren't your enemies. Some people act like everyone is trying to get them. Like, get a grip. I'm all for consumer rights but I have very little tolerance for the kind of hyperbole it existis around here and the line between "consumer rights" and just entitlement is getting real thin.

 

[kiguel182]

This is apples and oranges. The developers of Deus Ex aren't out saying "yeah you can just spam powers as much as you want."

But besides that, if you don't like the way your powers are limited, of course you should be allowed to get a refund. What shitty world of acceptance do you live in where you can't get your money back for a product that isn't doing what you want?

That's ridiculous. You also have to protect the business and avoid them to be exploited. If you go all in on that eventually companies would make less, safer games.

There needs to be a middle ground. It's baffling to read something "world of acceptance" like I should be 100 per cent satisfied all the time or I should get my money back. Especially when it comes to art like games.

Ridiculous statements like these is way I can't take this shit seriously.

 

[stump sock]

also NMS forces progress to be so fucking slow that I couldn't even leave my first planet for over two hours because it didn't have any zinc on it. it's not a one-size fits all metric.

 

[LiK]

my interest in anything related to their PAX coverage/shows is 0. MPP live or bust.

 

[tryagainlater]

That case falls into technical problems. If the game is broken past a certain length it's still broken.

The 2 hours steam thing is great and should be a standard but abusing that isn't something I can defend. And like, NMS marketing wasn't something like Aliens but whatever.

Also, publishers are not your friends but they also aren't your enemies. Some people act like everyone is trying to get them. Like, get a grip. I'm all for consumer rights but I have very little tolerance for the kind of hyperbole it existis around here and the line between "consumer rights" and just entitlement is getting real thin.

I never really followed the NMS marketing but a lot recently has been showing it to be pretty terrible. Anyway, I''m generally on the side of the consumer for these things. Of course, people will abuse any system but I think if people feel they deserve a refund, they may as well fight for it. I don't think their thieves for doing so as some (not you) have accused them of.

 

[pizzacat]

Am I right to think that Sony really fucked hello games over?

They seemed to have allowed things to spin out of control in a way that it wouldn't if they didn't try to make it a major release.

I still think they rushed them, and rushed sfv


Still no word from their artsy games tho


wait wait wait you never know NEO might up the value, NEO MODE ACTIVATE xD

 

[Joeku]

Whoa, is "drinking the kool-aid" a Jim Jones cult reference?

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Whoa, is "drinking the kool-aid" a Jim Jones cult reference?

Lol of course it is.

 

[Joeku]

Lol of course it is.

I literally had no idea til something Jeff said on the bombcast triggered the connection in my head.

 

[pizzacat]

Whoa, is "drinking the kool-aid" a Jim Jones cult reference?

It's the first thing you do when you buy a VR headset. It's like the tutorial and afterwards you feel like telling people how great VR is

 

[Zaph]

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I kinda don't think it's right to blame Hello Games & Murray, and then not blame Sony too.
They were the publisher & distributor on console, right?
They have ownership and responsibility too.

They're ultimately complicit, which even seems like a bit of an extreme word to use for the whole thing.*

*I have not bought No Man's Sky, would like to give it a go at some point

It's the first thing you do when you buy a VR headset. It's like the tutorial and afterwards you feel like telling people how great VR is

Same goes for just about any expensive thing really.

 

[oti]

Isn't Snapchat just for 13-year-olds and #brands?

 

[SomberOwl]

Yup, this game is quite unique in that sense - it's far beyond just a few tarted-up bullshots. Even if you want to give Sean/HG the benefit of the doubt and assume they genuinely thought those features would make it for launch, the post-release silence has been deafening. If those features really were almost ready, any other dev would be talking about the upcoming patch by now.

I agree with this. I doubt he was just straight up lying and probably had planned for those features to be in the game.

If they would have just come out and said they couldn't make it happen or are still working on it then that would be different. The silence is a bad look.

 

[BearPawB]

Does God Eater have boring harvesting missions?

If it is all killing...i think i could get behind this game

 

[Anjin M]

Isn't Snapchat just for 13-year-olds and #brands?

Seems to me that is exactly how it's being used...

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Is it PAX again? Ugh. I hate PAX so much. It's garbage and zero value for me. Actually it's taking value away from me. Can I sue PAX? I thought this was America.

The worst part is they are teaming up with CAH for a panel. The whole CAH crew is just annoying, not funny.

 

[KingKong]

The funniest thing about NMS to me is the way they acted that saying anything more about the game or being clear would ruin the experience and they don't want to spoil anyone on what amazing things you could find when it was actually because there's very little to the game

 

[BearPawB]

The worst part is they are teaming up with CAH for a panel. The whole CAH crew is just annoying, not funny.

I get why people don't like them.
But I find Max to be a really compelling guy. So as long as Max is there, I am in

 

[derFeef]

I know it can't live up to the legend, but a CAH session with *random videogame being palyed by Jeff in the background* would be neat. Maybe.

 

[Anjin M]

The worst part is they are teaming up with CAH for a panel. The whole CAH crew is just annoying, not funny.

That whole panels lives or dies to me by how much time Jeff is on the mic.

 

[hamchan]

Does God Eater have boring harvesting missions?

If it is all killing...i think i could get behind this game

I think I've spent more time in Monster Hunter harvesting than killing, so I can relate. I find UPFs good background noise for this harvesting nonsense.

 

[Data West]

Am I right to think that Sony really fucked hello games over?

They seemed to have allowed things to spin out of control in a way that it wouldn't if they didn't try to make it a major release.

did Hello Games over promise to Sony too though?

Maybe Hello Games fucked them over and they're trying to get away from it?

 

[Tagyhag]

The worst part is they are teaming up with CAH for a panel. The whole CAH crew is just annoying, not funny.

You're not a fan of "LOL boners amirite?" jokes?

 

[Chuck]

You're not a fan of "LOL boners amirite?" jokes?

Holocaust jokes, lulz

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

The funniest thing about NMS to me is the way they acted that saying anything more about the game or being clear would ruin the experience and they don't want to spoil anyone on what amazing things you could find when it was actually because there's very little to the game

I found that pretty funny too. In Sean's AMA somebody asked him "Is the giant sand worm in the game?" And his response was along the lines of "These questions are so tricky because I want you to explore and be surprised!"

In reality, the answer was "No."

I was hoping for posts in the OT and on the NMS Reddit in the weeks following release with the crazy, super-rare things people found, but as it turns out everybody saw everything week 1. Nothing hidden in there.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I found that pretty funny too. In Sean's AMA somebody asked him "Is the giant sand worm in the game?" And his response was along the lines of "These questions are so tricky because I want you to explore and be surprised!"

In reality, the answer was "No."

I was hoping for posts in the OT and on the NMS Reddit in the weeks following release with the crazy, super-rare things people found, but as it turns out everybody saw everything week 1. Nothing hidden in there.

I mean if you want people to discover shit then why show it in a trailer? Jeff's blatant anti-consumer stance really irks me when it comes to video game marketing/PR. I feel the whole situation's really obvious where as long as companies are honest about downgrades in graphics/removed features in the marketing up to release there's no issue at all. The important thing is that the consumer can make an informed decision at release and it's perfectly fine if they don't want to buy a game anymore because it doesn't reach earlier expectation. However when companies are still posting bullshots on steam store pages at release or are lying about content (which includes not pointing out things i earlier trailers are no longer in the game) they need to be called out on it.

I just find his whole stance on this kinda thing a little perplexing after the Kane and Lynch debacle. It's like how he wanted to give people shit for getting refunds on games, but when it's pointed out that he did the same back in the day his excuse was "They closed the loopholes!" as if that makes any difference.

 

[Tagyhag]

I mean if you want people to discover shit then why show it in a trailer? Jeff's blatant anti-consumer stance really irks me when it comes to video game marketing/PR. I feel the whole situation's really obvious where as long as companies are honest about downgrades in graphics/removed features in the marketing up to release there's no issue at all. The important thing is that the consumer can make an informed decision at release and it's perfectly fine if they don't want to buy a game anymore because it doesn't reach earlier expectation. However when companies are still posting bullshots on steam store pages at release or are lying about content (which includes not pointing out things i earlier trailers are no longer in the game) they need to be called out on it.

I just find his whole stance on this kinda thing a little perplexing after the Kane and Lynch debacle. It's like how he wanted to give people shit for getting refunds on games, but when it's pointed out that he did the same back in the day his excuse was "They closed the loopholes!" as if that makes any difference.

He wasn't always like that, I think he got it from Ryan.

The good thing that will come out of this is that people will have a much MUCH harder time trusting Sean from now on, especially if he tries another "Indie game trying to be AAA".

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I assume Jeff said all that on the podcast this week? I'm looking forward to getting to it!

 

[Jintor]

your daily reminder that even though squeenix tried to fuck it up the arse by futzing around with preorders and season passes and whatever Hitman is still a god damn amazing video game and they really captured what is good about that franchise

finally got around to doing the latest DLC Bankok and god damn it's a good video game

 

[SomberOwl]

Maaaan it's really sounding like were getting another gimmick console from Nintendo.

My main problem with the rumours are the controllers. They sound really dumb and gimmicky.

Can we just get a good home console with a really good controller for playing awesome Nintendo games? Not some dumb tablet or Wii mote and nun chuck combo.

 

[Ashby]

I mean if you want people to discover shit then why show it in a trailer? Jeff's blatant anti-consumer stance really irks me when it comes to video game marketing/PR. I feel the whole situation's really obvious where as long as companies are honest about downgrades in graphics/removed features in the marketing up to release there's no issue at all. The important thing is that the consumer can make an informed decision at release and it's perfectly fine if they don't want to buy a game anymore because it doesn't reach earlier expectation. However when companies are still posting bullshots on steam store pages at release or are lying about content (which includes not pointing out things i earlier trailers are no longer in the game) they need to be called out on it.

I just find his whole stance on this kinda thing a little perplexing after the Kane and Lynch debacle. It's like how he wanted to give people shit for getting refunds on games, but when it's pointed out that he did the same back in the day his excuse was "They closed the loopholes!" as if that makes any difference.

Alternately, East Coast Jeff was refreshingly pro-consumer when they talked about all the NMS stuff on the Beastcast a couple episodes ago to the point where I was like "damn, Bakalar is being harsh" but realized I only thought that because I was used to GB always aiming for this wishy-washy middle ground even in black and white situations of developers and/or publishers fucking over consumers.

 

[Jintor]

Maaaan it's really sounding like were getting another gimmick console from Nintendo.

My main problem with the rumours are the controllers. They sound really dumb and gimmicky.

Can we just get a good home console with a really good controller for playing awesome Nintendo games? Not some dumb tablet or Wii mote and nun chuck combo.

so long as nintendo is invested in wide blue ocean this will never happen

nintendo has historically always been chasing the next big thing. they never, ever want to straight-up compete with the other companies on their own turf because they can't. so they're always going to be chasing... something 'different'.

 

[FlammableD]

Maaaan it's really sounding like were getting another gimmick console from Nintendo.

My main problem with the rumours are the controllers. They sound really dumb and gimmicky.

Can we just get a good home console with a really good controller for playing awesome Nintendo games? Not some dumb tablet or Wii mote and nun chuck combo.

 

[BearPawB]

My problem is I don't actually believe that many people are REALLY mad about being lied to.

They are mad it is a bad boring game.

If the game was unlike the trailers/things were missing BUT the game was fun? I think you would see a lot less bitching.

I understand games change in development. I understand you make targets and don't reach them.

What I don't understand is how you don't sit back, do some playtests, and realize your game just isn't fun to play.
Basic movement? Not fun.
Shooting? Not fun.
Flying? Not fun.
Upgrading your ship? Not fun.

THAT is the problem. They made a bad game.Those are core gameplay elements that are bad. No sand worm I could forgive...

 

[imBask]

What I don't understand is how you don't sit back, do some playtests, and realize your game just isn't fun to play

at that point it was probably already too late, and I still think Sony kinda fucked them by pushing forward too fast

 

[stump sock]

What I don't understand is how you don't sit back, do some playtests, and realize your game just isn't fun to play.

kind of funny how only having 11 people making your fuckoff huge space game might actually be a bad idea.