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[Widge]

I don't know about you but I have no incentive to buy a game new nowadays.

Do I spend a fortune on Deus Ex now, which will no doubt sit in my account doing nothing and gradually accrue missing parts in the form of DLC over time. Or do I buy it in 2 years time, when a complete edition hits?

I seriously wonder if there is a big market for day one purchasers outside of a few key franchises nowadays?

 

[Always-honest]

yeah, still need to buy it. I will.

 

[Harlequin]

Tomb Raider was in a similar situation. It eventually limped to its goal.

But only because Square got lucky with there being such a game drought on the new consoles when they released the Definitive Edition. People were thirsty for new PS4 and Xbone games and Tomb Raider was pretty much the only big thing coming out at the time. That was a unique situation that can't be replicated at the moment.

 

[Rexatality]

I don't know about you but I have no incentive to buy a game new nowadays.

Do I spend a fortune on Deus Ex now, which will no doubt sit in my account doing nothing and gradually accrue missing parts in the form of DLC over time. Or do I buy it in 2 years time, when a complete edition hits?

I seriously wonder if there is a big market for day one purchasers outside of a few key franchises nowadays?

I don't think there's a need of a market for people who buy games day one or that such a market exists.

If people are very interested or excited for a game, they'll buy it, plain and simple.

 

[Dryk]

The 'ending' and its complete lack of any resolution really soured me on the game (most abrupt, unsatisfying ending I can remember since Assassin's Creed 1), but I absolutely adored the first two thirds of the game.

I keep seeing this sentiment but I don't really agree with it. The core conflict of the game is resolved. It's all of the ancillary stuff that is left hanging which isn't exactly unheard of.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I think it's actually that most people did enjoy HR but forgot about it over the last half decade. As good as it is, MD feels like a sequel that should have taken two or three years to come out. It just doesn't feel like the "event" that you need revive interest in your franchise after that length of time (SE's own marketing for FFXV would have been an apt model for them to follow). Most people probably saw the game on shelves and thought "oh they're still making these", being completely unaware that it's the first one since 2011.

I think that large gap in time hurt its story, too.

A big part of its plot, both in terms of the game but also its marketing and trying to make it intriguing, is its themes of humanity, segregation, and rights.

But the believability -- and I don't mean whether it's logical on paper, but I mean if we feel actual emotional attachment to it, in the same way we get attached to a drama and want to see what happens next season -- that believability or attachment basically all relied on an ending conclusion and story event that most people had long moved on from.

And the marketing itself, and even the game for that matter, do a poor job of re-attaching that event as significant -- which in the end sort of made the game's themes of segregation, oppression, terrorism as 'just cuz' -- just cuz the dev said so, and not because gamers by and large had any attachment to it from the previous game.

I felt that was a missed opportunity of the game, too... or the marketing, either one should have spent more time trying to build up why those themes should be cared about instead of just sort of assuming we automatically believe them. Especially for a game that took such a long hiatus.

 

[Freshmaker]

I keep seeing this sentiment but I don't really agree with it. The core conflict of the game is resolved. It's all of the ancillary stuff that is left hanging which isn't exactly unheard of.

Yeah, I'm not sure what else they were supposed to resolve at that point.

 

[Angry Fork]

As someone who really loved Human Revolution and was hyped for this I haven't gotten it yet. I really don't like the change in art style/visuals from the dark/grey/gold cyperpunk aesthetic in HR to the bright sunny outdoor stuff in Mankind Divided, there's no cyberpunk feel anymore. Also saw people saying it's unoptimized for PC compared to HR so I'm waiting for it to go cheaper I think, then I'll get it.

 

[Auctopus]

do any games do good in the uk anymore?

Sort of a weird comment to make. Here's the Top 20 Games of last year in the UK, sales-wise.

1. FIFA 16 (EA)
2. Call Of Duty: Black Ops III (Activision Blizzard)
3. Fallout 4 (Bethesda)
4. Star Wars: Battlefront (EA)
5. Grand Theft Auto V (Take-Two)
6. Batman: Arkham Knight (Warner Bros.)
7. FIFA 15 (EA)
8. Call Of Duty: Advanced Warfare (Activision Blizzard)
9. Assassin’s Creed Syndicate (Ubisoft)
10. Lego Jurassic World (Warner Bros.)
11. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (Bandai Namco)
12. Battlefield Hardline (EA)
13. Minecraft: Xbox 360 and Xbox One Edition (Microsoft)
14. Minecraft: Story Mode (Telltale Games)
15. Halo 5: Guardians (Microsoft)
16. Minecraft: PlayStation 3, 4, and Vita Edition (Sony)
17. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain (Konami)
18. Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection (Sony)
19. Dying Light (Warner Bros.)
20. The Elder Scrolls Online (Bethesda)

 

[Audioboxer]

I decided not to buy it till it bombs in price. SE EU/US sound like a bunch of assholes. Feel bad for the devs but they'd be better off with another publisher.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

I hope it does well eventually. I really like it and want more!

 

[CrayToes]

Sort of a weird comment to make. Here's the Top 20 Games of last year in the UK, sales-wise.

1. FIFA 16 (EA)
2. Call Of Duty: Black Ops III (Activision Blizzard)
3. Fallout 4 (Bethesda)
4. Star Wars: Battlefront (EA)
5. Grand Theft Auto V (Take-Two)
6. Batman: Arkham Knight (Warner Bros.)
7. FIFA 15 (EA)
8. Call Of Duty: Advanced Warfare (Activision Blizzard)
9. Assassin’s Creed Syndicate (Ubisoft)
10. Lego Jurassic World (Warner Bros.)
11. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (Bandai Namco)
12. Battlefield Hardline (EA)
13. Minecraft: Xbox 360 and Xbox One Edition (Microsoft)
14. Minecraft: Story Mode (Telltale Games)
15. Halo 5: Guardians (Microsoft)
16. Minecraft: PlayStation 3, 4, and Vita Edition (Sony)
17. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain (Konami)
18. Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection (Sony)
19. Dying Light (Warner Bros.)
20. The Elder Scrolls Online (Bethesda)

God, we have shit taste.

 

[driver116]

There's been no marketing though has there. Well not much that I've noticed any advertising anyway.

 

[AgentLampshade]

I bought it. It's like my first game purchase this year.

 

[Graphics Horse]

First glance at the box it could be mistaken for a remaster of HR.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

I don't know, to me it seems like the game's advertising before launch was severely lacking, my friends and I commented it quite a few times earlier this year "isn't Deux Ex supposed to launch this summer? Where's the buzz?"

I've seen some ads in tv and cinema after launch but it was definitely weak for a title that had to gather player attention after a five year hiatus. Add to that some of the negative reviews associated with the abrupt ending and the abyssal pre-order bonuses, tacked "FTP" mode and microtransactions.

I'm a big fan of sci-fi and cyberpunk in general and I'm sure the game is good (still have to get it myself) so this is aggravating, still I think that a weak marketing campaign is mostly responsible just like what happened to Star Trek Beyond in cinemas. Deus Ex is a well known property but not so much that it will sell tons by itself, especially after a half decade since the last title was launched.

 

[leng jai]

They didn't really try hard enough with their marketing or innovation. Deus Ex wasn't exactly a high selling franchise in the first place and MD took 5 years to come out without really shaking up the formula from HR. It's not like Fallout 4 where Bethesda could just release an average to poor game and still sell a bajillion copies.

MD is a pretty solid game, but it doesn't improve on HR enough to warrant the 5 year wait. I'm not surprised it hasn't lit up the sales charts, they needed to do more to really capture new players.

 

[danowat]

I decided not to buy it till it bombs in price. SE EU/US sound like a bunch of assholes. Feel bad for the devs but they'd be better off with another publisher.

I brought Human Revo at full price, and less than 6 months later it was about a third of the price.

 

[SlickShoes]

I got HR recently for £3 and lots of the reviews say that the new game is very similar to HR, so I'll just play HR in this instance and maybe get MD in 5 years when it's also £3.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I keep seeing this sentiment but I don't really agree with it. The core conflict of the game is resolved. It's all of the ancillary stuff that is left hanging which isn't exactly unheard of.

I think it's because the game spends so much time, arguably more than on the core antagonist, developing of those ancillary subplots. Had the game better focused more purely on the antagonist, it may have felt more satisfying. But it goes to great lengths to create so many different angles and actors that just resolving one of them ends up feeling like the the Panchaea conclusion of DXHR and more like wrapping up the Purity First guy in Detroit or The Dutchmen in Hengsha -- that story arc is certainly wrapped up but the broader story has been broadened so much that it doesn't feel conclusive enough.

I genuinely liked the story a lot (could be my GOTY) but if it wasn't for the fact I had spent almost 40 hours on the game from exploring (its gameplay is certainly AAA and complete) I also genuinely was expecting a second city hub and that I was only just at the halfway point of the story, and another 'act' was yet to come.

It's a huge game in terms of exploration but it's not actually all that long in terms of the core story... I mean, there are speedruns on Youtube around 50 minutes. If you break down the core story developments, it is somewhat on the light side -- again, sort of making the main MD antagonist more akin to the Purity First guy and the Dutchman, or the Tyrants in HR rather than the broader Sarif, Zhao Yun Ru, Darrow arc. At the very least, not akin to all of them.

 

[glaurung]

I've been playing the game on PS4 mostly and it is great indeed. However, the PC version suffers from real optimization issues, made weirder by the fact that the game does not look very taxing.

I'll get back to finishing the game after Rise of Iron gets boring.

 

[Havik]

Mankind devided is a good game but I was kinda disappointed with what they came up with after 5,5 years of development time after they already made human revolution with the same studio. There must have been some development problems or something or it wouldnt have taken so long.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

I'll certainly pick it up at some date but the reviews made it clear that some content appears to be missing. In that case I prefer to wait and pick up the full edition.

 

[Muskieratboi]

Insert "perhaps they shouldn't have stuffed microtransactions in a singleplayer game not balanced for it, leading to bad word of mouth" here.

 

[BeeNee101]

There's been next to no marketing in the UK, plus we've actually had a pretty good summer and it's been scorchingly hot for the last few weeks - people have been outside enjoying the rare chance of some sun.

If you enjoyed HR and saw the footage for MD coming up to release, maybe read a couple of reviews along the way, almost all of them showed that the game was more of the same rather than taking any revolutionary steps forward. I also think that unless a game has a huge amount of buzz (e.g. Doom) plenty of people don't want to pay full retail price for a single player game these days unless it's a huge sprawling RPG like Fallout or Witcher 3.


I think the game will have long legs, but people are holding off until it hits a sale

 

[Springfoot]

Wonder if the themes of the game were too depressing or unexciting for some people?

Even myself, and I've been a pretty big fan of the game so far, sort of found the game... depressing. Not really emotionally, and I don't mean in a tragic sense. Maybe oppressive is a better word. It's a very dystopian, glum game, and everything from some of the colour palette (Prague is very blue, almost clinically so.. like the white lights of a hospital) to the art and city life (constant segregation and oppression) to the story itself.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and while I love the Deus Ex series and thoroughly enjoyed my 50+ hours with MD and intend to replay it again, it is a much bleaker game world that's always stacked against the player. The Children of Men comparison is apt, and I agree that it may have been a bit much to the casual player they really needed to attract to hit their sales goals.

I'm also in agreement with everyone else that the 5 year gap felt too long for what was delivered, as much as I enjoyed it. Hearing the rumors about how the 'full' MD game was split into two or three parts makes a lot of sense and would explain the long dev time relative to the scope of the final product. I'm also hoping that means we see the next part in 1.5 or 2 years instead of 3 to 5, but I don't really have my hopes up, especially since this team tends to run late and given their plans for two DLC packs in the next 5 months (unless they're tiny missions like the one included at release).

It was also brought up how that 5 year gap is difficult for people who enjoyed HR but may have forgotten or lost some sense of the gravity of what happened in that title. I just finished the Black Light novel, which ties the two games together, and I feel a lot of the content in it would have been both fun to play and the information it contained absolutely should have been provided to players in one way or another. Even as a fan of the series, I didn't expect the game to drop me into a new location working as a double agent for a group of people I've never met to spy on another group of people I hadn't met without any kind of segue from the first game (I didn't watch the 12 minute clip since I replayed HR beforehand and was familiar with the story, so if that stuff was explained in there it should have been separated out). It just makes the whole thing harder to get into than it really should have been for a major fan and even worse for a casual player, which is the kind of thing that really hurts word of mouth.

Finally, put me in the group of fans who had entirely forgotten the game was coming out until roughly 10 days before launch thanks to some GAF threads. Advertising was non-existent for a AAA release not to mention that it would have benefitted from some in-depth ads showing how DX differentiates itself from other shooters (someone earlier mentioned something akin to the Detroit trailer and showing multiple ways to achieve a goal). Focusing the advertising exclusively on some minor powers and new ways to shoot guys doesn't really play to the series' strength.

In any event I'm hoping sales pick up enough for them to eke by through the holidays and to see more titles in the series. There really isn't anything else out there in the gaming landscape that provides a similar experience (or mix of various gameplay experiences in one cohesive package).

 

[Audioboxer]

Insert "perhaps they shouldn't have stuffed microtransactions in a singleplayer game not balanced for it, leading to bad word of mouth" here.

Not just that the season pass which sounds like cheap peddled ass and the murmurs about the game being cut up just to try and spawn sequels. Sequels that ironically if this is a bomb we might struggle to even get now.

Shady SE business practice's as usual.

 

[Steve.1981]

I think that large gap in time hurt its story, too...

I can believe some people would feel this way.

In-game it's about 2 years since "the incident" that HR ended on. It's repercussions are still being felt and debated. It's a fresh wound on that society. In the real world it's over 5 years. There's a weird feeling of disconnection there, I felt it myself and I got deep enough into HR that I played through it multiple times.

There is a recap film for people to watch before beginning the game. I'm not entirely sure what else they could have done to bridge that gap.

 

[FallenGrace]

Marketing may have something to do with it. A friend of mine messaged when the next Deus Ex is out and I was like..."last week" He then ran off and bought a copy lol.

He's really loving it but had no idea it was out -_-

 

[Dabanton]

Gave this a miss at launch, as I wanted to see what people opinions were going to be after the honeymoon period ended.

My gaming time is limited enough nowadays that I don't want to waste money and time on something I won't complete.

 

[chromatic9]

3 million outlined in the op being needed at full price to break even is a bit OTT even if we use a lowly sum of an average/equivalent of getting ~$25 USD per sold copy, that would be $75m USD which surpasses the $70m CAD budget greatly, which works out to $54m USD

SE is probably looking at a trajectory of different pricing over a longer period.

As for Brexit jokes, Deus Ex has been sold at very reasonable prices of £35-40 at most places.

 

[KORNdoggy]

3 million outlined in the op being needed at full price to break even is a bit OTT even if we use a lowly sum of an average/equivalent of getting ~$25 USD per sold copy, that would be $75m USD which surpasses the $70m CAD budget greatly, which works out to $54m USD

SE is probably looking at a trajectory of different pricing over a longer period.

As for Brexit jokes, Deus Ex has been sold at very reasonable prices of £35-40 at most places.

i got it for an awesome £32 day 1. i was surprised how cheap it was.

 

[Matt]

3 million outlined in the op being needed at full price to break even is a bit OTT even if we use a lowly sum of an average/equivalent of getting ~$25 USD per sold copy, that would be $75m USD which surpasses the $70m CAD budget greatly, which works out to $54m USD

SE is probably looking at a trajectory of different pricing over a longer period.

As for Brexit jokes, Deus Ex has been sold at very reasonable prices of £35-40 at most places.

The production budget doesn't include other costs, such as marketing and other ancillary considerations (which are usually ignored but can be substantial, depending on what is counted in the "actual" production budget).

 

[Audioboxer]

i got it for an awesome £32 day 1. i was surprised how cheap it was.

Typical Square game. Give it a few months and it will be £17.99 everywhere.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

Such a shame to see. You can see how much effort and love was put into this game. Human Revolution was the same. Brilliant game in my opinion.

 

[chromatic9]

The production budget doesn't include other costs, such as marketing and other ancillary considerations (which are usually ignored but can be substantial, depending on what is counted in the "actual" production budget).

I'm aware of games marketing budgets. Some games can be just as much as the dev cost.

I'm of the understanding that 70mCAD does actually include all in or has to be very close, it's quite cheap as a game goes these days and looks like a relatively smaller budget game. There's been next no marketing so I strongly doubt this is a case of 54mUSD game and 40-50m USD marketing budget, ~100m for Deus EX would be ridiculous.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I can believe some people would feel this way.

In-game it's about 2 years since "the incident" that HR ended on. It's repercussions are still being felt and debated. It's a fresh wound on that society. In the real world it's over 5 years. There's a weird feeling of disconnection there, I felt it myself and I got deep enough into HR that I played through it multiple times.

There is a recap film for people to watch before beginning the game. I'm not entirely sure what else they could have done to bridge that gap.

That does help a lot, but have you beat the game? Not really a main story spoiler (just an anecdote a character gives)

Spoiler

remember when Delara recounts her own Aug Incident story? About the girl that was her patient?

That scene actually kinda hit me hard. Thought she was well voice acted in general but that anecdote was probably the most I ever actually 'cared' about the Aug Incident and actually felt an emotional response to it, whether in MD or HR. And yet it was so late in the story that it actually had very little relevance.

Had the game had tried to capture that better at the start of the game, sort of recount those anecdotes or tell them differently, I think it would have served the moral conflict of the game a lot better. The game makes great effort to paint the oppression as bad but not enough to try paint the deep mental horrors and emotional tragedies that make them act that way.

 

[Backfoggen]

People would be smart to wait considering how there are still gamebreaking bugs.

 

[d9b]

I loved the last one, but I have to say reviews and feedback put me off (abrupt ending, etc) so I'm still indecisive about buying it.

 

[Dueck]

I had no hype for it, and only know two people who were excited pre-launch. The series has never been top-tier in terms of reputation. It's kind of a B+ list franchise, not quite an A, but better than a B. The marketing push, at least over in North America, seems pretty heavy. If anything is to blame it's the the terrible boss fights in the original HR combined with the game simply looking unremarkable.

I heard some good things, and had an overall positive opinion of Human Revolution. I was on the fence, particularly as I have nothing to play right now. Then I noticed that expired promotion where you get HR for free with the digital pre-order. The value was diminished by my own negligence, and I couldn't really justify it to myself then because I'm Scrooge McDuck.

I made a comment about how I shot myself in the foot by missing out on the free game, and a really great guy sent a code to my inbox stating that he planned to give it to somebody that wanted it but wasn't begging for handouts. That kind gesture prompted me to put my money where my mouth is and I bought the game. SE owes him a commission.

On a side note: I worked for EB Games when Deus Ex: Invisible War launched. A guy came in, asking for something very much along those lines. I kept recommending Deus Ex to him, but he kept changing the subject or ignoring me. I had no clue what was happening. What he was saying applied heavily to it, so I needed to win him over. After the fifth time, he just loses it and says "I don't play those kinds of games!" I pause for a second, and ask "what kind?" and he borderline whispers "sex ones." I just laugh and say "oh! No, day-us-ex. Not day of sex." He is understandably embarrassed by the misunderstanding, and ended up leaving with some Half-Life set... I'd like to think so he didn't have to tell anybody the name of the game he bought and repeat the cycle.

 

[dumbo]

I think the core problem is that HR didn't appeal to a huge number of people, and MD doesn't do anything to try to fix that.
- the gameplay hasn't really moved on.
- traversal in the game is 'not a fun factory'.
- the visual setting is (IMHO) too persistently dark/gritty.
- the most fun abilities are too limited/restricted.

MD does improve on HR in a lot of ways... but if MD2 comes out, I'll probably skip on it. The franchise needs a more fundamental rethink.

 

[Matt]

I'm aware of games marketing budgets. Some games can be just as much as the dev cost.

I'm of the understanding that 70mCAD does actually include all in, it's quite cheap as a game goes these days and looks like a relatively smaller budget game. There's been next no marketing so I strongly doubt this is a case of 54mUSD game and 40-50m USD marketing budget, ~100m for Deus EX would be ridiculous.

Two things:

1, there is very little chance this game and the marking all in cost just $70 million CAD.

2, both the $70 million cost and the 3 million copies break even point came from the same source, so why would you believe one of them and not the other?

 

[Mechazawa]

I really don't understand these complaints about how the game wasn't a radical enough differentiation. The game has a significantly stronger art style than Human Revolution, is significantly denser than either Detroit or Hengsha in terms of environmental exploration, has far, faaaar better weapon handling(which is real god damn important regardless if you're stealthing or shooting you're way out of everything, short of you takedowning everyone in the game), stronger cover management and even has way more cohesive questline structures that always seem to intersect more naturally than they did in HR either through Adam's secret augs or are directly related to the Ruzika bombing/TF29's investigation of the bombing/deep cover infiltration from TF29.

What sort of radical shift people were looking for to "warrant" the 5 year development cycle? I can't think of any other semi-recent FPSRPG-esque styled game that has gone as far as MD while effectively retaining the spirit of their predecessor, outside of maybe Dishonored 2, and that seems like a game that's as "conservative" as Mankind Divided is.

 

[TrueBlue]

do any games do good in the uk anymore?

Our market is bollocks.

 

[Astrates]

That's a shame. The game is great.

I agree, what a shame it's not selling as well as it deserves.

 

[Rexatality]

I really don't understand these complaints about how the game wasn't a radical enough differentiation. The game has a significantly stronger art style than Human Revolution, is significantly denser than either Detroit or Hengsha in terms of environmental exploration, has far, faaaar better weapon handling(which is real god damn important regardless if you're stealthing or shooting you're way out of everything, short of you takedowning everyone in the game), stronger cover management and even has way more cohesive questline structures that always seem to intersect more naturally than they did in HR either through Adam's secret augs or are directly related to the Ruzika bombing/TF29's investigation of the bombing/deep cover infiltration from TF29.

What sort of radical shift people were looking for to "warrant" the 5 year development cycle? I can't think of any other semi-recent FPSRPG-esque styled game that has gone as far as MD while effectively retaining the spirit of their predecessor, outside of maybe Dishonored 2, and that seems like a game that's as "conservative" as Mankind Divided is.

Yeah. It was an immense improvement over Human Revolution.

But the fact that Dishonored 2 is retaining the fundamentals of its predecessor while adding new stuff makes me little worried about its commercial sales despite its only 4 years gap between the two.

 

[Raylan]

do any games do good in the uk anymore?

Uncharted 4 is doing fantastic.

 

[YianGaruga]

SE is really struggling with their games lately in one way or another, even though some of them are sequels to very popular games.

Just Cause 3 - technical mess and bad word of mouth
Tomb Raider - exclusivity BS and low sales
Star Ocean - garbage
Setsuna - digital only because they have no confidence in it, relatively muted reception
Deus Ex - see this thread
Hitman - Weird early access format

I think Hitman and Tomb Raider both will do okay in the long run though.

World of FF and DQ Builders both look promising but probably won't reach a large audience because of the kiddy/japanese theme. And knowing SE they will overship both, leading to rapid pricedrops, once again reinforcing that you shouldn't buy their game at launch.

And FF XV is FF XV.

Not really looking great overall imo. Nier Automata and KH3 will hopefully reverse this trend.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

I'm surprised, this is the first big game to come out in a while. Maybe people just didn't like the first game, I didn't.

 

[Prime crotch]

I really don't understand these complaints about how the game wasn't a radical enough differentiation. The game has a significantly stronger art style than Human Revolution, is significantly denser than either Detroit or Hengsha in terms of environmental exploration, has far, faaaar better weapon handling(which is real god damn important regardless if you're stealthing or shooting you're way out of everything, short of you takedowning everyone in the game), stronger cover management and even has way more cohesive questline structures that always seem to intersect more naturally than they did in HR either through Adam's secret augs or are directly related to the Ruzika bombing/TF29's investigation of the bombing/deep cover infiltration from TF29.

What sort of radical shift people were looking for to "warrant" the 5 year development cycle? I can't think of any other semi-recent FPSRPG-esque styled game that has gone as far as MD while effectively retaining the spirit of their predecessor, outside of maybe Dishonored 2, and that seems like a game that's as "conservative" as Mankind Divided is.

They improved a lot in the structure but kept the impairing energy system and the new augs don't really come into play in any way, they're cool looking but rarely needed.
It's an incremental sequel, which isn't bad per se, but maybe not exactly what some were expecting after 5 years.