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I'm an Atheist and i hate it.
- Thread starter nkarafo
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UncleSporky
Member
This is pretty silly as a distinction, though. It like it's trying to claim they are two separate things.
"Atheism isn't about what you believe, don't worry about that, it has zero affect on your beliefs. You can continue believing whatever you want, believe in a higher power and religion, all of that...atheism doesn't have anything to do with that."
Don't get so hung up on atheism.
Look, we have no idea what the truth of 'God' is, we just have evidence that it isn't espoused by any of the religions we have presented ourselves thus far.
None of this 'should' exist. None of this makes sense. It's something from nothing, or something having always existed. Heck, I've heard compelling arguments that it could all be one of many computer simulations (which sounds crackpot until it's explained). We just don't know.
Don't see atheism as an advocation of nothingness. It's simply a path to asking bigger, better, real cosmic questions.
Look, we have no idea what the truth of 'God' is, we just have evidence that it isn't espoused by any of the religions we have presented ourselves thus far.
None of this 'should' exist. None of this makes sense. It's something from nothing, or something having always existed. Heck, I've heard compelling arguments that it could all be one of many computer simulations (which sounds crackpot until it's explained). We just don't know.
Don't see atheism as an advocation of nothingness. It's simply a path to asking bigger, better, real cosmic questions.
Dot Matrix
Member
No such thing as silicon heaven? Then where do all the calculators go?
Sounds like you're having a good old fashioned existential crisis. Don't worry, once you accept the futility of existence and the absurdity of the cosmos, you'll feel better about your own insignificance. Once you realize how pointless everything ultimately is, it can be quite liberating.
Sounds like you're having a good old fashioned existential crisis. Don't worry, once you accept the futility of existence and the absurdity of the cosmos, you'll feel better about your own insignificance. Once you realize how pointless everything ultimately is, it can be quite liberating.
acheron_xl
Member
You should listen to Penn Jillette talk about atheism. He has an amazingly positive, humanist outlook on life.
Just because there is an end to the story doesn't mean you have to live the story miserably. If anything, not having an all-powerful, all-knowing deity watching over you means that you are in charge of your own life. It can be quite empowering, you make your own fate. It can be frightening too, but overcoming this fear makes you stronger.
Just enjoy life man. It's not long enough so make the best of it.
blame space
Banned
I'm an atheist and i hahttps://youtu.be/uLb4r8hS1R8
Mr Waluigi
Banned
That's terrible theology. Religious people who haven't studied enough to be able to talk about what God does or does not in the world need to stop trying to convince others about it honestly.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
It's just the way my mind works I guess, I have a hard time overlooking ultimate meaning or the lack thereof. I'm sure I'd find ways to stay happy no matter what I believed as I'm a pretty easy to please guy but in the back of my mind I'd always be thinking about how meaningless it all is.
Finding ways to be happy as you put it is what I'm talking about really; deluding yourself to avoid the ultimate truth that nothing really matters. Not saying it's wrong or inhuman to do so, it just is what it is.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Arguably, not believing in god can have the "we're a special snowflake" be a far more viable answer to our existence when you consider all the insane circumstances it takes for a planet to host life, to host complex life, to not have complex life be blasted away with extinction events, to have those extinction events bring in a new apex, to have a small subset of those new animals have the capability for intelligence, to have those animals continue to evolve into a somewhat intelligent species (something incredibly rare).
To have that species create societies, language, art, grasp the understanding of death, their place in the universe.
All in such a small timespan to the point where it took in insane amount of luck and circumstance to even be here today.
Uncle_Classy
Member
Taking a year of biochemistry did the exact opposite for me really. It showed how all the splendor and amazing things about biology have been made possible through tiny iterative steps, each building upon one another toward the complexity we see today, no intelligent design required.
It's become increasingly clear to me over the last few years that the necessity for a universal creator is just a product of human cognitive bias in trying to intuitively understand reality.
Always-honest
Banned
no man, it's ultimate freedom. YOU decide what is worth living for.
In the end, religious or not, we do not matter in the grand sceme of things. We are insignificant. But you can make your life worthwile. Why waste it on a false purpose?
Be glad. Now grab life by the fucking balls and enjoy.
There is too much to enjoy.
In the end, religious or not, we do not matter in the grand sceme of things. We are insignificant. But you can make your life worthwile. Why waste it on a false purpose?
Be glad. Now grab life by the fucking balls and enjoy.
There is too much to enjoy.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
nkarafo
Member
gin and tonic sound feasible. I don't have a girlfriend for sex or the money for a psychiatrist.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
But then how do you prove being religious is not deluding yourself to avoid the ultimate truth that nothing really matters?
I think people are too strung up with what happens after death or how the ultimate clockwork of the universe works. I think those are not useful or interesting questions, even if my faith answers them. However, the answers given by my faith give me enough motivation to change my behavior accordingly.
Even if there is something else out there, even if we were created, the odds of having a life after death is about as likely if I threw the phone I'm typing on, and it broke, that it would materialize magically in phone heaven. We may one day be able to create life or universes, that doesn't mean those beings would get an afterlife.
kavanf1
Member
As others have said, your atheism isn't anything to do with your bleak perspective. It's entirely possible to have a profound appreciation for life in and of itself without the need for any of the supernatural trappings afforded by religion.
Carl Sagan has loads of great stuff extolling the wondrousness of simply being, these quotes are all from one book (Cosmos):
You make what you want of your life. You don't necessarily need to be babysat by superstition to make it feel better.
Carl Sagan has loads of great stuff extolling the wondrousness of simply being, these quotes are all from one book (Cosmos):
You make what you want of your life. You don't necessarily need to be babysat by superstition to make it feel better.
capitalCORN
Member
I don't know how forcing life to be a story about yourself can be healthy. But really OP, you're depressed. You'd still be depressed with God in your heart, or even better, with like a $100 million fortune. You've grown desperate for solutions, for sure, but consult a professional first. Hell, just talk to your GP, and they can point the way.
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
You set it up for me to ask, so here goes:
How in the hell (pun intended) is God even something you can study?
People claim God works in mysterious ways, which logically follows that there is no direct way to observe God's work.
But if we were able to observe, study and record what God does, then God is not as mysterious or almighty as claimed.
Especially when a lot of things (humanity included) are so poorly designed and put together. Intelligent design really doesn't fly with me. Doubly so when the creator is supposed to be omnipotent.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Listen to some Alan Watts. He will make you appreciate nothingness like never before. Maybe read his book "The Wisdom of Insecurity." He was honestly my greatest stepping stone after leaving the Catholic Church.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I can't prove it. I've accepted that.
I don't really dwell on these types of ultimate questions. I enjoy many of the simpler things in life and have assigned meaning to a lot of meaningless things (football teams, video games, etc.). I think it's human nature to do so no matter what you believe. That said, at the end of the day it would all be completely meaningless if there was nothing beyond our life here. That would be the ultimate truth in a godless worldview. How you handle it from there is up to you.
I think there's an issue of permanence here. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but saying 'nothing really matters' often seems untrue to me. Let us say I buy a present for a friend. That present makes them very happy for some time. Why doesn't that matter? Because they will die one day? If that is your answer I'd ask, so? You've made that moment in time better.
Well said and I feel this cannot be stated enough. Live and let live, regardless of beliefs, nationality, ethnicity, gender, etc...
These are things that are supposed to be etched into our very consciousness if we take the time to understand WHAT we are first and foremost. I feel humans in general focus on the WHO from the day we are brought into this world, that's why there is always a sense of disconnect. It is understanding what you are first and foremost that shines light and it is also that very understanding that allows one to come face to face with ones own mortality/
Adam_Vania
Banned
i would do some meditation on nothingness. i don't think it's as meaningless as you think. nothing can be a void but it can also be infinite potentiality. if there truly was nothing before the universe came into being, then it proves this!
you need to let go of your jealousy of the devout imo. it seems to be influencing your own experience. religion/spirituality/philosophy/etc should be largely a personal experience imo, and once you start relying on others to judge yourself against a standard, things get messy.
take solace in the idea that nothing matters! if nothing matters then we are truly free. if nothing matters then certain things don't matter MORE than other things. it's simply a matter of looking at it a slightly different way. optimism in the face of pessimism.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
The world's history is some crazy stuff from our point of view. The world's physics are also crazy stuff, from the macroscopic to the microscopic to quantum physics. But it doesn't mean divinity must be involved. Why can't things just be the way they are? We can answer "how" things are with science, but we can only answer the "why" with irrational methods - philosophy, religion, speculation, imagination. That's because the "why" is a very human question that only concerns us, our consciousness, our intelligence, itself a byproduct of the way we ended up evolving. We are self-aware but that doesn't mean we are better than anything else or that any of our questions (that cannot be answered with the scientific method) matter.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Not really, we live in the tiniest speck of a galaxy during the shortest amount of time. It's hardly luck when there's almost infinite space and infinite time to try.
No, no it wouldn't at all.
Any serious atheist is agnostic because agnostic is about knowledge about existence of god. We can't know for sure if there is a god. Therefor for knowledge stand point of view we are agnostic.
BUT we live our lives as atheist because we don't based our day to day life under the presumption of existence of such being.
How do you know?
capitalCORN
Member
Considering the Christian Bible is convinced we were formed from clay, 'intelligent' may not even be in the picture.
Pantaghana
Member
OP, what you describes sounds like depression. What you need is some counseling and therapy, not religion.
kavanf1
Member
Everyone's an atheist to all the thousands of gods they don't believe in. Atheists just go one god further.
As an atheist, I envy those with faith - like the real believers who actually KNOW that what their ideas are true (even though I disagree with them). I don't see faith as a choice, whether it's in religion form or otherwise. I obtain information sourced from somebody else or from my own observations, and either I draw my conclusion or my gut tells me what to think. I'm sad that neither result in me thinking anything other than we are all alone, metaphorically speaking.
I wish I had faith, but I don't, so I'm left to envy those who do.
I wish I had faith, but I don't, so I'm left to envy those who do.
Monocle
Member
Read secular philosophy, look into stoicism and existentialism, and check out science books like Unweaving the Rainbow and Sagan's stuff. You might enjoy Ralph Waldo Emerson, even though he's not exactly secular. I've heard good things about Alan Watts, though I'm not familiar with his work.
Pursue your passions in life. If you don't have any, try a lot of things. Volunteering, or any kind of works that helps other people, can be fulfilling. Have you considered teaching something?
I don't really relate to envying people who have faith. It seems to me the whole appeal is that you sincerely believe all that religious stuff is true. False hope is empty hope. And it's kind of helpful to recognize the transience of things, and understand that you've got one shot at existence, so you'd best made it count (and try to avoid an untimely death, because who has time for that?).
Pursue your passions in life. If you don't have any, try a lot of things. Volunteering, or any kind of works that helps other people, can be fulfilling. Have you considered teaching something?
I don't really relate to envying people who have faith. It seems to me the whole appeal is that you sincerely believe all that religious stuff is true. False hope is empty hope. And it's kind of helpful to recognize the transience of things, and understand that you've got one shot at existence, so you'd best made it count (and try to avoid an untimely death, because who has time for that?).
Also maybe this.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Even as a Christian I adore this mindset and agree with almost all of it. The universe is a fascinating place and science is an incredible tool. Far too many religious people antagonize science out of fear when they should embrace it out of wonder and awe.
Always-honest
Banned
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
It's actually super easy. There's no evidence any gods exist, so I don't believe in any.
Wow, that wasn't hard at all!
Zepp Twofist
Member
Take a better biology class.
The afterlife idea is flawed in ways simpler than that, I think.
It's the definition of too much of a good thing. Besides, paradise can't be watching Earth carrying on through glass forever, having family reunions and cloud barbecues for all time. "I don't want to go to another cloud barbecue, I'm sorry if I ruined your paradise but fuck that".
Just because death claims us all does not mean the time we have is pointless.Just because you buy shoes and they wear out doesn't mean it was pointless to wear shoes.
Ultimately I think your problem has to do with giving your life a structure and a purpose. Thankfully you are capable of doing these things yourself, they are not god given.
You don't need a fairy tale to create meaning in your life. You also don't need to feel superior to religious people to not believe in a god.There are many ways of living, many ways of making happiness, many ways of creating meaning.
I specifically avoid the phrase "finding" happiness, or "searching for" meaning, because it's not as if those emotions are lost somewhere and waiting to be found. They come from decisions you make about your attitude and about your values and about your goals.
What are your values? What makes a person a good person? Have you spent time thinking about these things? If you have a default answer that you can for to these questions, do you really know why they're an answer, or is it just something you've always believed? If so, maybe you should spend time thinking about why they might or might not be important.
Once you know what your values are, what you think is important in a person, then you can begin evaluating yourself on those merits. This can be scary if you're the type of person who is afraid of failure, but it's necessary. If you fail to live up to what you see as virtuous, then you have a clear path of self improvement. If you think you as a person match your ideals, then you can start thinking about what your goals are in life.
Self-improvement and measurable progress towards goals you've set are the simplest and often the best forms of fulfillment. The here and now is all you've got. Giving yourself the opportunity to look at each day and see how you've made it better than the last, for yourself, for your family, and for your community is incredibly meaningful.
Ultimately I think your problem has to do with giving your life a structure and a purpose. Thankfully you are capable of doing these things yourself, they are not god given.
You don't need a fairy tale to create meaning in your life. You also don't need to feel superior to religious people to not believe in a god.There are many ways of living, many ways of making happiness, many ways of creating meaning.
I specifically avoid the phrase "finding" happiness, or "searching for" meaning, because it's not as if those emotions are lost somewhere and waiting to be found. They come from decisions you make about your attitude and about your values and about your goals.
What are your values? What makes a person a good person? Have you spent time thinking about these things? If you have a default answer that you can for to these questions, do you really know why they're an answer, or is it just something you've always believed? If so, maybe you should spend time thinking about why they might or might not be important.
Once you know what your values are, what you think is important in a person, then you can begin evaluating yourself on those merits. This can be scary if you're the type of person who is afraid of failure, but it's necessary. If you fail to live up to what you see as virtuous, then you have a clear path of self improvement. If you think you as a person match your ideals, then you can start thinking about what your goals are in life.
Self-improvement and measurable progress towards goals you've set are the simplest and often the best forms of fulfillment. The here and now is all you've got. Giving yourself the opportunity to look at each day and see how you've made it better than the last, for yourself, for your family, and for your community is incredibly meaningful.
I'm a Christian, and I believe in something being out there, but don't beat yourself up over being an atheist. Focus on being happy and enjoying your time with loved ones.
I try not to worry as much as I used to about things I have no control over. I have no idea what happens after you die. I have no idea if there's a heaven or a hell. Truth told, I just don't care. What is, is, and it's more important for all of us to focus on doing right by one another while we're here, and not fretting over God, Angels, Devils, Heaven, or Hell. You don't need to be a believer to be happy, or to treat others with kindness, compassion, and empathy.
I'm a Christian because I believe in Jesus' teachings of being kind to one another, not because of some eternal "reward" ( or punishment...XD).
Religion isn't for everybody. I suppose that's sacrilegious to say, but I'm a firm believer in letting people find their own path, and only aiding when they clearly need help, or if their path is going to lead them to harm themselves or others. I'm not down with forcing my beliefs on others. My faith wasn't forced on me growing up. I was given the space and room to make my own decisions about religion, and I'm happier for it.
My wife is an agnostic/borderline atheist. We've been together for almost 14 years. It's all about respecting others and their beliefs and choices. Religion is very personal, and so it's not my place to tell anyone if the should or shouldn't pursue it.
Again, don't beat yourself up for being an atheist.
I try not to worry as much as I used to about things I have no control over. I have no idea what happens after you die. I have no idea if there's a heaven or a hell. Truth told, I just don't care. What is, is, and it's more important for all of us to focus on doing right by one another while we're here, and not fretting over God, Angels, Devils, Heaven, or Hell. You don't need to be a believer to be happy, or to treat others with kindness, compassion, and empathy.
I'm a Christian because I believe in Jesus' teachings of being kind to one another, not because of some eternal "reward" ( or punishment...XD).
Religion isn't for everybody. I suppose that's sacrilegious to say, but I'm a firm believer in letting people find their own path, and only aiding when they clearly need help, or if their path is going to lead them to harm themselves or others. I'm not down with forcing my beliefs on others. My faith wasn't forced on me growing up. I was given the space and room to make my own decisions about religion, and I'm happier for it.
My wife is an agnostic/borderline atheist. We've been together for almost 14 years. It's all about respecting others and their beliefs and choices. Religion is very personal, and so it's not my place to tell anyone if the should or shouldn't pursue it.
Again, don't beat yourself up for being an atheist.
Sometimes I wish I believed. The idea that all of our loved ones will join us in a beautiful afterlife where there isn't any pain or sadness is a really comforting thing. And even though it's (hopefully) far off, death is pretty terrifying to me. The loss of everything you are, your consciousness, just going out like a light. It's something where, if I'm not careful, it can send me into a dark spiral.
But ultimately, I don't believe. The life we have is all we've got, and the only way I can accept death is to embrace life. It's a big, interesting world out there, and that has to be enough.
But ultimately, I don't believe. The life we have is all we've got, and the only way I can accept death is to embrace life. It's a big, interesting world out there, and that has to be enough.
capitalCORN
Member
KNOWING is different from BELIEVING. You can convince yourself to believe anything you want. Or be convinced to believe anything other people want. In the end, it's all thought without veracity. Knowing involves intrinsic understanding of fundamental truth, irreversible by opinion or tradition.
What difference does it make if the next generation is in a better place? One day that generation will die out and it'll be like they were never born. It won't matter if it's a better place because it'll be like they never existed. Trying to make the world a better place for future generations is like writing a book and then having the words disappear as you type.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I'm an atheist and a very happy person. I try to enjoy life, not swear the small stuff because I believe this life is all I've got.
If you're miserable and pessimistic, that has nothing to do with being atheist. Do you really think people of faith that are otherwise in the same boat are enjoying life vs just slogging through it and hoping for paradise in the afterlife?
Fix what's making you unhappy. Get help for depression if that's an issue. Unless you have serious health issues, disabilities etc that can't be fixed, life is largely what you make of it. There's always hard times that suck, difficulty getting to a point where you have enough income to not stress about bills every month etc. But those can be worked through and one can still find the joy in other things while going through that shit if they don't focus so much on the negatives.
If you're miserable and pessimistic, that has nothing to do with being atheist. Do you really think people of faith that are otherwise in the same boat are enjoying life vs just slogging through it and hoping for paradise in the afterlife?
Fix what's making you unhappy. Get help for depression if that's an issue. Unless you have serious health issues, disabilities etc that can't be fixed, life is largely what you make of it. There's always hard times that suck, difficulty getting to a point where you have enough income to not stress about bills every month etc. But those can be worked through and one can still find the joy in other things while going through that shit if they don't focus so much on the negatives.
There are better ways of finding meaning in life than inventing fake stories and characters and dedicating your life to them.
Sounds like you need to get a hobby/career/significant other.
Sounds like you need to get a hobby/career/significant other.
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