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Developers, please stop making shitty trophies and achievements.

This thread comes to you from someone with severe OCD and I realize that not everyone will care or sympathize. But, I need to get it off my chest.

I rarely start, or even replay games on harder difficulties. I try to enjoy myself first and foremost when it comes to videogames, and typically, normal mode is fine for me. When it comes to action titles like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta, they can be tough as nails without the proper mastery.

Metal Gear Rising was no different. Yet, when I finished on normal or easy, whichever one I did, I found that just a normal playthrough had gotten me a lot of the trophies. So I thought, hey, I may try and Platinum this, or give it a good run at least, and started a new game on hard. And man, that was fun. The bosses were absolutely exhilarating and opened my eyes to just how good the combat system was.

I never did Platinum it, and I don't think I finished that go, but the game/bosses up to where I did get was a lot of fun, and all because of... trophies. These trophies were actually tied to legitimate challenge and mastery of the game. Now, I don't recall if the game had any trophies/achievements like the ones I'm about to dig into, but it's an example of how going for trophies extended the playtime and even broadened my appreciation of a game.

I just started the remastered Bioshock and took a look at the trophy list. Yup. "Collect all 2,348 audio diaries." Okay, so not that many, but it may as well be. My problem with trophies like this is that the only skill it's tied to is your ability to tolerate pure, absolute tedium. What happens here is that, unless you have the locations of every audio diary memorized, you psychopath, and you want all the trophies-- you're probably gonna find yourself checking an online guide for each and every one which causes a stop-and-go effect while, when you're playing a game, you should always be going.

While there's not over 2,000, there are around 130 or something, and some are even locked to locations that after certain points of the game, you cannot return to them. So you find yourself checking and double-checking and not actually doing anything fun or skill-related, and to me this is absolutely the worst way to go about it. The game has pretty good trophies in general, but it's the ones like this that can lead to chore-like endeavors, and it totally sucks the fun out of actually playing a videogame.

And I'm not just singling Bioshock out. So many games do this. The Resident Evil remake has one attached to entering absolutely every room in the game and picking up every item. With limited inventory space and how much you have to backtrack between item chests just to store everything to free up more room to go grab more items, who's having fun with that? It's less tedious than the Bioshock audio diaries, but still not exactly a fun thing to go for.

Trophies/achievements can be utilized to open the player up to new gameplay possibilities, even inviting players to challenge themselves, play on harder modes, and get good. While going for skill-based trophies, you can find yourself discovering just how deep a gameplay system can be, ultimately heightening your appreciation and overall fun you're having with the game. And then you have trophies/achievements tied to fetch-quests and other tedious, chore-like endeavors that adds absolutely nothing to a game besides an utterly pointless replay, or constantly interrupting your gameplay by stopping to check where the next thingy is.

I wish developers would stop and think about this, and whether or not a certain trophy/achievement is demanding skill from a player, or their patience over something ultimately pointless.
 
I would be happier if it was no longer required by Microsoft and Sony to include Trophies/Achievements for any game on their platform.
 

Piers

Member
I would be happier if it was no longer required by Microsoft and Sony to include Trophies/Achievements for any game on their platform.

One and done. The mundane and lazy achievements are because they're obligated to put something in, which probably presses on debugging.
 

cooldawn

Member
I would be happier if it was no longer required by Microsoft and Sony to include Trophies/Achievements for any game on their platform.
Yep. People should want to play a good game...not an artificially bloated game for something worth nothing.

Nothing more to be said.
 

Robot Pants

Member
I would be happier if it was no longer required by Microsoft and Sony to include Trophies/Achievements for any game on their platform.
Yea I wish they would just do away with them completely. Or give the user the option of not unlocking them if they don't want to
 

Nev

Banned
There are games with great achievements that actually lengthen the game's life in a fun and challenging way, there are games with absolute crap achievements, it can't be helped, just don't go for the platinum as soon as you read "kill 300.000 enemies" or "play 500 hours of multiplayer". I personally can't stand trophies in very linear games like Uncharted. Leave the collection shit for open-world games, I don't want to repeat a whole chapter just because I missed a treasure at the end and can't go back to the area. And speedrun? In Uncharted? Are you serious? God. It's better in 4 because of the option to select arenas and not whole chapters, but the plat was still a nightmare.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
This thread comes to you from someone with severe OCD and I realize that not everyone will care or sympathize. But, I need to get it off my chest.

I rarely start, or even replay games on harder difficulties. I try to enjoy myself first and foremost when it comes to videogames, and typically, normal mode is fine for me. When it comes to action titles like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta, they can be tough as nails without the proper mastery.

Metal Gear Rising was no different. Yet, when I finished on normal or easy, whichever one I did, I found that just a normal playthrough had gotten me a lot of the trophies. So I thought, hey, I may try and Platinum this, or give it a good run at least, and started a new game on hard. And man, that was fun. The bosses were absolutely exhilarating and opened my eyes to just how good the combat system was.

I never did Platinum it, and I don't think I finished that go, but the game/bosses up to where I did get was a lot of fun, and all because of... trophies. These trophies were actually tied to legitimate challenge and mastery of the game. Now, I don't recall if the game had any trophies/achievements like the ones I'm about to dig into, but it's an example of how going for trophies extended the playtime and even broadened my appreciation of a game.

I just started the remastered Bioshock and took a look at the trophy list. Yup. "Collect all 2,348 audio diaries." Okay, so not that many, but it may as well be. My problem with trophies like this is that the only skill it's tied to is your ability to tolerate pure, absolute tedium. What happens here is that, unless you have the locations of every audio diary memorized, you psychopath, and you want all the trophies-- you're probably gonna find yourself checking an online guide for each and every one which causes a stop-and-go effect while, when you're playing a game, you should always be going.

While there's not over 2,000, there are around 130 or something, and some are even locked to locations that after certain points of the game, you cannot return to them. So you find yourself checking and double-checking and not actually doing anything fun or skill-related, and to me this is absolutely the worst way to go about it. The game has pretty good trophies in general, but it's the ones like this that can lead to chore-like endeavors, and it totally sucks the fun out of actually playing a videogame.

And I'm not just singling Bioshock out. So many games do this. The Resident Evil remake has one attached to entering absolutely every room in the game and picking up every item. With limited inventory space and how much you have to backtrack between item chests just to store everything to free up more room to go grab more items, who's having fun with that? It's less tedious than the Bioshock audio diaries, but still not exactly a fun thing to go for.

Trophies/achievements can be utilized to open the player up to new gameplay possibilities, even inviting players to challenge themselves, play on harder modes, and get good. While going for skill-based trophies, you can find yourself discovering just how deep a gameplay system can be, ultimately heightening your appreciation and overall fun you're having with the game. And then you have trophies/achievements tied to fetch-quests and other tedious, chore-like endeavors that adds absolutely nothing to a game besides an utterly pointless replay, or constantly interrupting your gameplay by stopping to check where the next thingy is.

I wish developers would stop and think about this, and whether or not a certain trophy/achievement is demanding skill from a player, or their patience over something ultimately pointless.

If learning more about the story and atmosphere of the BioShock games is tedium to you... methinks you shouldn't be playing BioShock.

I think BioShock is a pretty poor example for you to use in general, because every achievement is tied to completion or to cumulative actions you would normally do—either maxing weapons, inventions, tonics, plasmids, research. They're straightforward, nothing hidden or tied to some easily missable aspect ("shoot a tin cup in this room to trigger some fight!") The only frustrating achievements in the entire series were getting to max level in BS2 multiplayer (which took forever), and getting Blue Ribbons in all the Clash in the Clouds DLC missions—which weren't bad on their own, but you had to play through each stage from the beginning even if you were only missing ribbons on, say, the final round.

Whereas a game like Quantum Break has tons of collectibles, but it's incredibly easy to go back and find the ones you miss without replaying huge portions of the game. If you really wanted to you could avoid an entire second play through of the game, so it makes repeated run-throughs about enjoyment rather than the achievements alone.
 

pa22word

Member
The only game that ever did cheevos right was Dead Rising, which came out in fucking 2006.

They're just virtual pats on the back. Grow a sense of self control and ignore them if you think they're stupid.
 

Curufinwe

Member
You can't expect to 100% every game you play unless you are incredibly talented and also unemployed.

But I do think a lot of games make too many of their goals too hard to reach. The % completion for most Transformers Devastation trophies are minuscule, and I don't think Platinum put enough thought into making them worthwhile.

By comparison the Achievements in Bayonetta are much more reasonable.
 
I think part of it might that those 'Collect X amount' trophies and achievements are maybe just easier to do if the devs don't really care about trophies and achievements. I find it hard to make a argument to a devs to tell them to put a ton of thought into their achievements.

I means who says "Yea I loved Destiny but the trophies sucked so I'm really debating if I'll get Destiny 2."?
 
More games need to do more challenge oriented achievements. Also Orange Box had some fun achievements with stuff like The One Free Bullet and Flushed achievements etc.
 

Jmille99

Member
Yep. People should want to play a good game...not an artificially bloated game for something worth nothing.

Nothing more to be said.

Im perfectly fine with only having story related trophies like Telltale or visual novel games. It puts in no extra effort to alter how a player plays a game while still satisfying trophy hunters.

I personally hate online trophies that are ridiculous (I liked how Uncharted 4's were reasonable), forcing you to replay the game on different difficulties and collectibles with no worthwhile in-game rewards.
 

TimPV3

Member
Trophies have ruined my enjoyment of a lot of games with collectibles. I'll try to get all the treasures or audio diaries in one go, and it really distracts me from enjoying the game. Especially if the game doesn't have Chapter Select and I have to start over because I missed something.
 
I'm not a fan of collectible trophies myself, unless there's some actual skill involved in finding and unlocking them. Simply looking in every corner for some dumb shite is annoying. Skill based trophies or trophies that reward different playthroughs are way more fun.
 
I have only had one gold trophy, and that was because it was tied to completing a game.

I prefer achievements as it is less annoying knowing you've completed loads of games and they are only worth silver or worse bronze.

I hate trophies and achievements which are for collecting X in an open world game... I dont think I've ever got them all.

In fact the only games I managed to do all of that was GTA: Vice city
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
I've never been the achievement hunter type but the ones that always rubbed me the wrong way are the ones that required you to be at the top of a leaderboard, play against a developer of the game, or something else equally asinine.
 
If learning more about the story and atmosphere of the BioShock games is tedium to you... methinks you shouldn't be playing BioShock.

This is a common defense of trophies like this that arises, but the game is over a decade old, I've gotten and listened to all the diaries before, and going for said trophy just requires that I do it all over again. For newcomers I would suggest getting or listening to as many as they run across, but listening to all 130+ is not at all tantamount to enjoying the story. If you love it and want more details, yes. For getting a trophy? No.
 

Nowak94

Neo Member
Yea I wish they would just do away with them completely. Or give the user the option of not unlocking them if they don't want to

You can't be serious. You can disable the notification for trophies on PS4. If you don't like the feature ignore going for trophies.
 
Have you tried caring less about cheevos?

As I stated in the OP, I have OCD and realize not everyone cares as much. In the grand scheme of the planet and third world problems, it's by no means a big deal, but I do think more well thought-out ones should be a thing, and can make for better gameplay experiences.
 

pa22word

Member
This is a common defense of trophies like this that arises, but the game is over a decade old, I've gotten and listened to all the diaries before, and going for said trophy just requires that I do it all over again. For newcomers I would suggest getting or listening to as many as they run across, but listening to all 130+ is not at all tantamount to enjoying the story. If you love it and want more details, yes. For getting a trophy? No.

So don't fucking do it then. I mean I hate to be that direct, but ultimately that's what it boils down to. No one cares that you didn't 1000 the game. Neither the game itself, nor the developer. It's nothing more than a little treadmill with a carrot on the end of it for you to run on, placed for no other reason than that you hold onto the game a little longer before trading it in.
 

Zeta Oni

Member
The only thing that annoys me about Trophies/Achievements are missable and online ones.

This.

Wanted to 100% RE5 & RE6 just like I'm doing RE4, but since there's no one on Xbox playing the versus modes, not a chance of doing so unless I seek out other achievement/trophy hunters.
 
Yeah, there are a lot of crap ones, though I'd put online trophies ahead of collectible ones. I like getting Platinums, but if a game forces me to do something I really don't want to do (play Breach in Deus Ex), I just ignore them. Better to spend my time playing something else instead.
 
The blame is also on gamers with their chronic OCD with achievements. Thus game developers exploit it, making gaming feel like real work.

Nothing force you to complete all achievements. You can even pretend they do not exist and ignore them. You don't have to Plat' this or that. If you choose to, then do not complain and endure the pain.
 
So don't fucking do it then. I mean I hate to be that direct, but ultimately that's what it boils down to. No one cares that you didn't 1000 the game. Neither the game itself, nor the developer. It's nothing more than a little treadmill with a carrot on the end of it for you to run on, placed for no other reason than that you hold onto the game a little longer before trading it in.

It's personal satisfaction, not bragging rights. And again I think that they can make a game better/more fun, like in my Rising example. And again, if you feel that way and can't understand why someone like me cares about them, like I get it but this topic is for people who can sympathize; I tried to spell it out in the thread that I get that not everyone is going to give one shit about this, and I didn't make the thread for "but why do you care" comments.
 
I hate online/multiplayer achievements nowadays since I prefer to play single player games. In particular ones that are either situational specific or can only be done on a certain map.
 
For some reason, I really hate difficulty trophies in long RPGs.
I'm not going to play a new game on the highest difficulty from the start and I'm not interested in replaying it when I've already invested 50-100 hours into building my character and exploring the world. Put some really hard optional boss into the game if you want me to spend more time with it, but let me do it in single playthrough!
 

Mithos

Member
And most of the online achievements are not even good. The vast majority are just "play a lot".

The Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena

Kill 10.000 people..

OK, online DEAD 6 months after games release "pretty much", not possible when you bought the game a year or so later then that... :/
 

locke_21183

Neo Member
I know there are online petitions and everything about the Become Emperor trophy from Elder Scrolls Online. I've wondered if that's the game that has the most long-winded ever Platinum?
 
I don't mind collect X shit, what I do mind is missable achievements.

Collect X shit are frequently missable. Collecting the diaries in Bioshock is missable. There's three in the beginning that, if you don't get them all or didn't know you can't go back after a point, you have to restart and sometimes you don't know this going in blind. There's another portion that has diaries that you cannot return to later in the game.
 
The only game that ever did cheevos right was Dead Rising, which came out in fucking 2006.

They're just virtual pats on the back. Grow a sense of self control and ignore them if you think they're stupid.

Except the Otis and Survival achievements, they can fuck right off
 
It's personal satisfaction, not bragging rights. And again I think that they can make a game better/more fun, like in my Rising example. And again, if you feel that way and can't understand why someone like me cares about them, like I get it but this topic is for people who can sympathize; I tried to spell it out in the thread that I get that not everyone is going to give one shit about this, and I didn't make the thread for "but why do you care" comments.
I sympathise with people who feel compelled to collect achievements, having a similar personality myself (I do manage to avoid achievements though.). I do consider it somewhat of a 'gaming illness' though.
 

kunonabi

Member
I usually skip achievements since they're mostly rubbish but I've made it a point to 100% every major Wii U game so I've had to do them for a couple games. Smash and Xenoblade X achievements were complete and utter ass. Smash is way to dependent on awful RNG and Xenoblade is just littered with mindless grinding that serves no purpose at all.
 

Zertez

Member
Are developers encouraged to make Trophies/Achievements difficult? I remember playing some games with easy Trophies/Achievements(King Kong) in the past, but recently it seems a lot of developers go out of their way to make them a huge time sink(Mortal Kombat XL). I dont think Platinum Trophies should be too easy, but they should be more accessible to people who play the game a reasonable amount of time. If you put over a 100 hours into a game, you should be close to the Platinum Trophy. I dont see the harm if you have a third of the player base with the Platinum instead of less than the 2 percent in its current form. I would be more encouraged to stick with a game a little longer, if I thought I could get the Platinum Trophy. I dont even bother looking at Platinum Trophies any more.
 

Rellik

Member
Trophies have ruined my enjoyment of a lot of games with collectibles. I'll try to get all the treasures or audio diaries in one go, and it really distracts me from enjoying the game. Especially if the game doesn't have Chapter Select and I have to start over because I missed something.

Then ignore trophies until after you've completed it. I started doing this and was finding much more enjoyment in my games.
 

Sanctuary

Member
There are games with great achievements that actually lengthen the game's life in a fun and challenging way

I have never understood this rationalization. It assumes the goals of the achievements were never possible until the achievement told you to do them. People have been doing all kinds of crazy things in games long before an achievement gave them an arbitrary award for doing so. This is why I just can't understand achievement hunters thinking that a gamer score is some kind of badge of honor. Why do you need a cookie to have fun with the game, or to replay them? Once you start doing it just for the trophy, it's no longer actually about extending the life of the game, and more about wasting time just to say that the game has more playtime than it would otherwise. Or that somehow jumping to your death fifty times off of the tallest building in the game is somehow skill based.
 
I sympathise with people who feel compelled to collect achievements, having a similar personality myself (I do manage to avoid achievements though.). I do consider it somewhat of a 'gaming illness' though.

I mean, I can ignore them. My point of the thread was to talk about how they can add to a game or make something less fun if you choose to go for them. I certainly don't 100% everything or even try to, but games/series that I really love-- yeah, I like going for everything. I've Platinum'd Bloodborne twice and the only tedious trophy there was for going through all the chalice dungeons, which was worth it because there were some amazing bosses there and what I consider to be the true final boss, but there's a lot of them.

I just 100%'d Resident Evil 4 because it's fun as hell and none of the trophies were tied to any nonsense; the hardest ones were for beating the game on professional difficulty and getting all the bottle caps, of which both are skill-based and that's totally fine.

I have never understood this rationalization. It assumes the goals of the achievements were never possible until the achievement told you to do them.

For me anyway, as I pointed out with my Rising example, it got me to check out a harder difficulty of the game that I otherwise probably wouldn't have bothered with, and found that I was having more fun than on the easier modes. Since then, I've been playing more and more games on hard difficulty and higher.
 
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