What an embarrassing attempt at a counter point.
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Games ruined by creator's politics
- Thread starter FlyinJ
- Start date
What an embarrassing attempt at a counter point.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Blizzard's politics on removing all the fun things from Genji
edit: good joke
Waiter: Soup or salad, sir?
Ken Levine:...both sides are bad tbh...
edit: good joke
Waiter: Soup or salad, sir?
Ken Levine:...both sides are bad tbh...
shawnoftheshred
Member
Tom Clancy's The Division. Shooting looters feels wrong.
Also, most fighting games re: skimpy outfits and suggestive movesets for the women. Thought MKX did a way better job than most on the non-eyerolling costumes and diversity, which was surprising.
Also, most fighting games re: skimpy outfits and suggestive movesets for the women. Thought MKX did a way better job than most on the non-eyerolling costumes and diversity, which was surprising.
mikefrails
Banned
Want to defend his point for him? I'm all ears.
Palette Swap
Member
Reread their point instead of making such a dumb kneejerk whatabout post. They're not saying Japan's atrocities are the issue here, it's Sugiyama being a revisionist asshole.
Well, ignoring the fact that your comment sounded dangerously close to downplaying the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan, his issue was with the concerted effort to deny the fact that such acts occurred, which is on ongoing deplorable thing being done by someone today, not acts committed by a nation sometime in the past.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Did OP claim that the game featured rhetoric denying Japanese war crimes?
His point is that he doesn't want to support a revisionist who wants to deny the war crimes and atrocities that Japan committed in WW2.
Tell me how b-b-b-but your country did bad things too is in anyway relevant to his argument?
What you're implying here is either that (a) FlynJ's problem with Sugiyama is that he's Japanese, not the fact that he's denying Japan's war atrocities, or (b) that FlynJ by being born in their country is OK with any atrocities that country might have done and is therefore a hypocrite. In any case it's a weird counter-point.
Also above.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
He has a contemporary issue with Israel and Palestine to back up the idea of "oppression breeds oppression".
mikefrails
Banned
If that bothers him enough for a video game to turn sour, then it stands to reason that a real life example he's experiencing right now should tug on his emotions even more right?
It's supposed to sound unreasonable because negging a virtual toy because of a man's personal politics is also unreasonable.
TriAceJP
Member
Cute.
The OP did say that they cannot enjoy Dragon Quest because the composer believes some rather outrageous things.
...so?
By my guess, the OP is a white dude in the US between the ages of 20 - 30, as the majority of GAF members seem to be. Also, I believe they had zero problems until they stumbled upon a GAF thread that said 'That dudes a monster, right?' The guy is 90 from old world Japan, he's gonna say some stupid stuff.
Point is, OP has zero claim to be 'so bothered by the music they can't enjoy the game' (light paraphrase).
Really? That music just takes it right outta you, huh?
Slide the damn volume bar down. Or even better, I believe Dragon Quest has a music option in the settings.
I come to NeoGAF to escape real world news, as all it does us pander to outrage and sympathy for dem clicks then move on to the next shocking story. When people make threads about pedantic things to be bothered by, all I can do is roll my eyes.
Stop getting upset to get upset, guys. Come on.
DragonGirl
Member
Both for me. Sometimes I go the "separate the art from the artist" route but it really depends on what they are guilty of and how active in promoting said negative thing they are. Do they just say stupid stuff? I can ignore them and still enjoy their work. Do they actively use the money they earn in profits (the money I gave them) to promote their hate/stupidity? Then I'll avoid them if I can.
Israel's treatment of Palestine?
In any case, I don't think any Bioshock game has ever had anything interesting or meaningful to say.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Not the "creator" but I decided not to buy Codename Steam because of the presence of Adam Baldwin. Even when it was on firesale I was like "ewwwwww."
People are talking about games and since the very first game politics have always had a place in it. Life is political, people are political so it goes to stand that people who make games based on their experiences in life will also be political.
Gaming side doesn't talk politics, it talks games. Sure some of these discussions are more "political" than others such as the very recent conversation of diversity in gaming but lets look at how the landscape was like before and after this conversation. We went from having no diversity with few exceptions (and only exceptions) to having a little bit more diversity with an actual expectation of it to grow.
Games are still fun then and now, except now more people can enjoy them. So in this case talking about diversity led to more people enjoying great games. And no, not everything needs a political stance, more often than not people would rather not know a political stance of a company in fear that it wouldn't align with their owns, that hasn't stopped companies and people within companies from making their stance heard as is the whole point of this thread. The companies and developers who made their political stance heard so now we can't ignore it and its up to us to either not purchase or purchase their product based on it and thats just down to the person.
"Political" discussion should not be avoided, in many cases all it will do is just make the industry a better place with more diverse options than ever before. It's also pretty hard to avoid political discussion when games are drenched in the politics of their creators.
I'd like to say that I would be able to still buy games but if Sega or Platinum comes out with some Anti LGBT or Racist bullshit I'd have no idea how I would respond.
mambadragon
Banned
Brad Wardell. In response to a sexual harassment claim:
http://kotaku.com/5940401/pc-gaming-studio-said-she-ruined-their-game-but-only-after-she-sued-the-boss-for-sexual-harassment
http://kotaku.com/5940401/pc-gaming-studio-said-she-ruined-their-game-but-only-after-she-sued-the-boss-for-sexual-harassment
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Left Behind is not about homosexuality, it is about friendship, loyalty, love, finding yourself, trying to live one night like kids of the XX century when childhood is long gone in their world.
The comics make a lot of background to the DLC.
edit: And I try to separated the work from the artist. It is rougher now because everyone is so political, like Kojima and MGS V.
Shogmaster
Member
You can certainly make a case that Israel has taken up the role as oppressors to the Palestinians, and placed like Liberia which was founded by freed slaves from America also has resulted in oppressive regimes.
One of the most brutally oppressive regimes in the world, North Korea has been rule by descendants of Kim Il Sung in the last ~40 years. Kim II Sung rose to fame as one of the greatest freedom fighter during oppressive Japanese occupation of Korea before end of WWII..
You're not wrong. To take away that Left Behind was all about being gay is pretty absurd and it says more about that poster's politics than it does the creator's.
purseowner
Member
What do you find politically questionable about Kojima and MGS V, if you don't mind me asking?
Are you American? Slavery is absolutely a sacred cow different from other terrible things that humans have done here for various cultural and political reasons, much like the Holocaust is in Germany.
Also every revolution ever as an example.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
>Says something obviously controversial
>Gets obvious reaction of "lol wtf, I need some explanation"
>Gives really strange explanation that doesn't answer anything (AKA how is two characters being gay a political issue?)
>Everyone says that doesn't actually explain anything
>Leaves blaming everyone else
I was just answering the Jewish American part of a contemporary example.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah, he'd have a definite problem with me making the canon gender choice in my Lovecraft game an Irish Woman.
But I mean he's also dead.
Sure, sorry I didn't go deep in that, because I was addressing Left Behind. I don't like MGS V, because for ME (again maybe I'm wrong) the narrative of the game has too much about everything, trying to make a political statement about a lot of things. And when I read Cioran's quote I was like "DAMN, this game is going to be soooo good", but then with the linguistic part a lá Chomsky and the horror of the war in Africa with child soldiers, the only thing that became clear to me is that Kojima is only trying to "brag" or show the people how much he knows about a lot of things. The game would have been so much better plot wise, If he only wanted to address one of that many issues properly. So the political view of Kojima is uncertain for me, a guy with a lot of info but again, for me, he did nothing. I forgot, the issue of human augmentation, nuclear deterrence and in the end you are a puppet of sorts and nothing that you can do, will make a difference in the long run. That's more a philosophical statement for me. He used political views to make a philosophical impact in the choices of humans being.
I don't know if I make sense. What I'm trying to say is that MGS V show the ambition of a man more than his honest view of things. So the game was trying to hard to be political and had the potential to make a difference but instead is full of ego
I know, I was just adding that this is the way revolutions usually go. Kevin Levin wasn't really wrong in that observation.
Backlogger
Member
I try to ignore people's politics when it comes to consuming their products, whatever they might be.
Now if their product itself is a vehicle for pushing a political view that I disagree with I might stay away but depends.
I'm not going to pass on someone's delicious food because they make political statements I disagree with.
Might be a bad example but there used to be a food truck here in Las Vegas that had pretty decent burgers. They participated in a lot of school and other local fundraisers and were about to open their first restaurant near my office. Then one of the owners made a statement about gun control and Vegas is pretty pro gun rights and it absolutely killed their business due to pro gun people boycotting them. They never opened their restaurant and I don't see their food truck anymore.
People have the right to buy or not buy something for any reason but damn I wish that food truck was still around.
If you love the game then love it, doesn't mean you have to love the creator of it.
Now if their product itself is a vehicle for pushing a political view that I disagree with I might stay away but depends.
I'm not going to pass on someone's delicious food because they make political statements I disagree with.
Might be a bad example but there used to be a food truck here in Las Vegas that had pretty decent burgers. They participated in a lot of school and other local fundraisers and were about to open their first restaurant near my office. Then one of the owners made a statement about gun control and Vegas is pretty pro gun rights and it absolutely killed their business due to pro gun people boycotting them. They never opened their restaurant and I don't see their food truck anymore.
People have the right to buy or not buy something for any reason but damn I wish that food truck was still around.
If you love the game then love it, doesn't mean you have to love the creator of it.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Snake and Otacon being sent to death was canned for political reasons?
I thought it was canned because the entire team revolted against it
CornBurrito
Member
I refuse to buy anything Scribblenauts, or anything else touched by Jeremiah Slazka. Thankfully the game(s) tend to be gimmicky and not very good.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
So, you're literally saying that you consider the mere acknowledgement of gays to be a political statement.
EDIT: Just saw you did the usual leaving thing.
I don't see how this works. We're discussing homophobes and gators in this thread. There has been brought up some actual, real hate.
To imply that Fish is anywhere near that just because he is abrasive on Twitter is really, really foolish.
Great post. Sometimes I'm afraid when devs try to discuss politics in videogames as if it's a cool thing to do because they often end up being superficial.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
SolidSnakex
Member
That's the case. The original ending had Snake and Otacon being executed for war crimes. That's why "Here's to You" was chosen as the ending theme. It was a song originally written for two people that were wrongfully executed. But the dev team thought it was way too dark, so it was changed to the one we saw in the final game.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
.... wait, so not only are you defending fictional rapists but you're also equating gays to rapists?
purseowner
Member
Thoughtful insight. I see what you're getting at.
To me, MGS V was a let down narratively not because of a lack of completeness, but more that Kojima failed to deliver on the political statements he'd hyped up as being present within the game.
Obviously his games have a tendency to be overtly philosophical - sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't. Maybe this is on the contrary to what you're saying, maybe not, but I felt that MGS V wasn't making enough of a point about anything and was cack-handed with its presentation of that which it did attempt to tackle.
This is something I don't want to discuss on GAF, and I don't mean to change anyone's opinion.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yea, that's what I read. Curious to see why the other guy said it was political
Thank you so much. I'm tend not to post this kind of thoughts and feelings because I'm afraid of the backlash or people being unpolite because English isn't my native lenguaje.
No my friend, that is what I was trying to say.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Phil Fish: The Thread
As if the "Japanese games suck bro western games are so much better" thing wasn't already uneducated, ignorant, and self-absorbed enough, the man hides behind mental illness as a reason to be constantly shitty and then smirk about how it makes other people upset.
Guess what Phil? I have mental illnesses too, and I've been called slurs most of my life (still happens in my adult life sometimes), but I don't believe it gives me a license to be a raging asshole, and I don't hide behind it when I do or say something insensitive or just fuckin rude.
"Come on man he has it rough."
No. I cannot tolerate people excusing shitty, rude, or otherwise just mean behavior with anything, let alone mental illness. If you don't want me to think you're a fuckin asshole, the easiest way to do that is to not be a fuckin asshole. Making excuses and saying you can't help but be a douche is just an admission that you lack empathy.
As if the "Japanese games suck bro western games are so much better" thing wasn't already uneducated, ignorant, and self-absorbed enough, the man hides behind mental illness as a reason to be constantly shitty and then smirk about how it makes other people upset.
Guess what Phil? I have mental illnesses too, and I've been called slurs most of my life (still happens in my adult life sometimes), but I don't believe it gives me a license to be a raging asshole, and I don't hide behind it when I do or say something insensitive or just fuckin rude.
"Come on man he has it rough."
No. I cannot tolerate people excusing shitty, rude, or otherwise just mean behavior with anything, let alone mental illness. If you don't want me to think you're a fuckin asshole, the easiest way to do that is to not be a fuckin asshole. Making excuses and saying you can't help but be a douche is just an admission that you lack empathy.
Sword Of Doom
Member
So a person is either a SJW or is tolerant of Hitler? This thinking in extremes is so common on Gaf lately.
Why bring it up at all then?
HueyFreeman
Banned
I feel like this thread could have been taken in a much more interesting direction ie. does the artist matter to the art? This is constantly debated in multiple different art forms: Is it ok to enjoy the technical innovations in Birth of a Nation? and so on.
Oh well.
Oh well.
This isn't really about the creators' opinions, but Battlefield Hardline was practically an insult.
Games that glorify military action and constantly portray it as something heroic already rub me the wrong way, which is part of the reason I tend to avoid things like Battlefield and Call of Duty in the first place. But seeing Battlefield Hardline move from hyping the military to hyping a militarized police force, especially when it was announced in the same year that discussion about police violence in the United States really ramped up thanks to the case of Michael Brown, was just too much.
Like I said, though, I'm not too interested in those games in general, so I guess it didn't really get ruined for me, but Hardline just stood out to me as egregiously insensitive, at best.
Also Doug TenNapel doesn't get my dollary-doos.
Games that glorify military action and constantly portray it as something heroic already rub me the wrong way, which is part of the reason I tend to avoid things like Battlefield and Call of Duty in the first place. But seeing Battlefield Hardline move from hyping the military to hyping a militarized police force, especially when it was announced in the same year that discussion about police violence in the United States really ramped up thanks to the case of Michael Brown, was just too much.
Like I said, though, I'm not too interested in those games in general, so I guess it didn't really get ruined for me, but Hardline just stood out to me as egregiously insensitive, at best.
Also Doug TenNapel doesn't get my dollary-doos.
Fair point. I think it was Vice news at the time that heavily implied a two way street and me thinking at that time product placement sounded more logical than licensing. But I'll concede that the only real evidence points in the opposite direction, so you seem to be right. Not that I particularly trust weapon manufacturer reps not to advertise in games and lie about it, and I am in no mind to exonerate the developers here either, because after all they're still the types that think selling guns for charity is a swell idea, but still.
Yes though you'll notice this is mostly for fun and none of these are significant business partners. When large firms are thanked, it's usually for providing services, not simply being a customer.
When did he use a medical condition to excuse his behavior?
Well, you came out and said that it was a right wing load, then compared it to the Polanski rape case. If you're not going to back up such a hyperbolically loaded comparison, you shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
i mean you could at least pirate it damn