Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Kinda shocking to me that on GAF, the forum that scrutinises image quality like no other, so many people are happy with wildly inaccurate displays.
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TV Color Temp: What do Dev's say is the preferred Color Temp?
- Thread starter Hawk269
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John Rabbit
Banned
Sure, but what color temperature is 'Warm 2'? Is it a standard? Does it change between manufacturers?
Because movies and games are calibrated from the same reference point, 6500k
I hope you're not using Cool temperate at night times though, that's bad for your eyes
It's worse when you go to a mate's house and they have all the wrong settings.
LordRaptor
Member
No, because this supposes that cloud cover doesn't exist, the earth doesn't rotate, and that the earth does not go around the sun, when in all fact all three of those moderate how daylight is perceived at different latitudes at different times of year.
Unlike a lot of topics, there is actually an objectively correct answer for this question; D65, Rec. 709 and 2.2 gamma. Any other answer is incorrect. Well unless it's about HDR and then it's; D65, Rec. 2020 and 2.2 gamma. Your own eye balls are often very wrong, and there are enough optical illusion examples to make this abundantly clear.
While this is true, you shouldn't be changing the colour temperature of your display as some sort of post white balancing.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I went with the Warm2 for movies/TV because that was recommendation and I've loved that even though at first it seemed Yellow.
I noticed the Yellowing too much with PC/console gaming and changed it to Cool. It does looks a bit blue until I tweaked it to look more white. It is a bit bright and I keep tweaking to fix that, but am pretty happy with my settings overall.
It hasn't hurt my eyes yet, though I do have impaired vision. I'm open to change if you have recommended setting you can offer or point to for Samsung KS8000 (US)
PapaEmeritus
Member
I gotta go with cool for me, but I'm colorblind, so really who knows 
doughEATER
Member
Not really shocking. Too few people even make a noise about crushed blacks in Xbox One OS and games. This console was released in 2013 and it's still not fixed. And this is a consumer media device that should be all about industry standarts. Last time i checked everything was messed up in that OS even YouTube app, picture viewer and web browser.
Natural light is not only different in different locations around the world, but it's also different at different times of day or times of the year in the same location. It's a principal cause of SAD (seasonal affective disorder) and using light bulbs with different color temperatures in your home can actually be an effective treatment for it.
It's not really that surprising. You have to be exposed to a well calibrated display, and then notice there is a difference. There are a huge number of people here that can't even notice the difference between 30hz and 60hz. Even then calibration is not free unless you have a friend that will do it for you. Also every image people here view is through a display that might not be calibrated and thus nothing will look wrong unless it's really off.
Jack Scofield
Member
My TV has a color mode for "computer." How does this differ from warm/cool?
LordRaptor
Member
Of course, but its why displays have customisable temperatures and why "Warm 2 is what they use in hollywood!" isnt a one size fits all solution.
You have a KS8000? Sweet.
If Warm 2 feels too yellow, then it's probably not 6500k. Sadly with this sort of calibration, while some screens are great with getting you as close to SRGB as possible, there are variances.
There's also the possibility that the warm colour of certain games is simply by design. The idea that there should be a difference between what you use for games and movies is preposterous and I'm really not sure why TV Manufacturers think this is a great idea.
Now the purpose of colour temperatures...
While I no longer have my monitor, I have a Surface Book which is where I view most of my content. I don't need to do any professional colour grading or anything, but out the box the Surface devices are brilliantly accurate. Despite that, I still use a program like f.lux (which warms the screen as the sun goes down) because blue light is really bad for you. I can only imagine how horrible it must be looking at bright HDR content with a cool colour temperature.
I don't really know what Warm 2 is supposed to be, but if it's 6500k, no one should really be using anything else for games, movies, or what have you. TVs these days are pretty good at displaying SRGB and that's a godsend.
But then you know, some people like dynamic contrast and crushed blacks, so whatever.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
The same. I get distracted! I know it's how the directors intended the colors to look like but I just can't.
I just got a new TV, so I've been asking myself this question as I futz with the settings on all the different modes. I've noticed the defaults are all Warm 2, but that looks insane to me. This new LG 4K LED has a "Medium" setting, which is what I've been going with. Am I doing it all wrong?
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Apple devices tend to come fairly well calibrated by default, at least in terms of colour temperature and gamma, so most people at this point must have encountered decent calibration that would be much better than cool colour settings on TVs.
I've always assumed that's a big reason why people like Apple products without them necessarily realising it. A friend of mine was complaining that his Macbook looked better than any monitor he had no matter what he did, then I pushed him to a Dell IPS, and he saw the (6500k) light.
These posts highlight great points. 6500k (D65 specifically) is what you want to aim for. It's the standard in multiple industries. This is considered to be a mostly neutral whitepoint. Content is the created with this reference whitepoint in mind. What looks like a neutral white on a display that is calibrated to D65 may not look right on a consumer display. That's why it's important to set your display as closely as possible to D65.
On most displays, the Warm or Warm 2 preset will get you closest; however, this isn't true for all displays. Sometimes the normal or neutral preset can be the closest. The best preset is still probably going to be inaccurate to a degree. This is where a meter and proper calibration comes in. It's the only way to be sure and may allow you to fine tune everything, but it's a more complicated topic. Otherwise, you'll have to eyeball it and that isn't very reliable (the color of the room's lighting and surroundings will skew things). If that's the case then choose what looks the most neutral to you.
The Last King of Scotland uses colour temperatures well to portray the differences in climate. If you go too warm or too cool you'll probably have a worse viewing experience.
Some content takes the piss however, like Homeland lol
Layman's
It's just a different way to try and get the same thing.
4:4:4 however is what everyone should be after (usually on high-end TVs you need to use the PC label for it)
Some content takes the piss however, like Homeland lol
PSY・S;219405809 said:
Layman's
It's just a different way to try and get the same thing.
4:4:4 however is what everyone should be after (usually on high-end TVs you need to use the PC label for it)
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Thanks.
In regards to HDR content I only tried some Demos off USB stick which looked brilliant.
I haven't tried HDR on PC since windows hasn't updated to support it in games yet and I don't have PS4 Pro yet and don't have an Xbox One S. I'm sure I'll tweak one I can see how it is for games. I might switch from Cool if it is really as bad as you say for my already impaired and aging vision.
univariate
Banned
I go with neutral. Temps feel like awful filters to me, so I try and remove any type of preset temperature.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Warm 1 and white balance tweaking. Cool is gross, everything looks so bluish and harsh.
StormBrute
Member
How does one get these kinds of settings? I'm looking around my monitor and TV settings and I have no idea what to do to set gamma to 2.2 or color to 6500k or any of that.
How GAF likes to view content
Gamma, you can "kinda" get with calibrating with your eyes. For free you can use www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/? ~ I also like the one that comes with the Xbox One Settings (though don't view any calibration sites on the Xbox One browser or Picture Viewer, because the colour space is fucked)
As for 6500k, you gotta just go for whatever is the closest to your neutral setting and try to make white look like white. Otherwise, you'll need a calibrated reference (less accurate) or a colorimeter (expensive as fuck).
Neutral is a color temp as well.
Doesn't matter what they call it, could be 1-2-3-4-5 or A-B-C-D-E.
LordRaptor
Member
Just google for "monitor calibration reference images" or similar, you should be able to find test colour and greyscale test patterns to help calibrate if its bothering you
I'm not surprised. There's a wild and sad contrast to what we deem acceptable in the retro threads and what general Gaming thinks is okay.
Fair point. Forgot about cloudiness affecting color temp. Warmer however is still more applicable in majority of gaming environments. Many of us don't play in rooms with an overabundance of outside lighting. We tend to play with curtained windows to avoid glare (or no windows), and using indoor lighting. That means our immediate ambient lighting is warmer rather than cooler (unless you're using very cool CFL bulbs).
This one thing I have always been confused about. People are saying warm is more realistic. And they have been saying that for decades. I don't argue that, but if not even the best displays can display what your eye can see, how can any of it of be realistic. Other then I a general statement that it closer when compared to other temps. As we are all learning now HDr and wcg gets use alot closer then ever before. But still has a long way to go.
Not the best image, but this is basically what you guys are doing as you're moving away from 6500k. You're essentially moving all of your colours away from having that mid-point as your "whitest white"
By making that have a blue tint (Cool) you're making all your other colours, including your reds and greens wrong. So when an artist wants to make the colour of alien's meat be slightly darker to show that there's more iron in it, or you see a medical drama where they show you deoxygenated blood (darker) and make a comment on it, you're losing the ability to compare that with real life.
Then you get video games where you visit different planets like in Mass Effect/Elite Dangerous, where artists care about the colour of the horizon, and you're supposed to notice the difference from the colour of our home world.
Or the many times a CoD game will put you in the Middle East and make the entire scene Warm to give you the feeling of it being in a hot climate... It's only so that when they show you a cold winter scene the difference is consistent.
By all means, fuck up your calibrations, but don't switch them about for different content ~ and if you must, don't get used to staring at blue light
It's just TV Manufacturers may are may not call Warm 1/2 whatever 6500k. 6500k isn't about it being natural, it's just correct. Your displays interpret the colours in 1s and 0s, but artist hope that their "blue" is the "blue" that comes out of your screen. It would be chaotic (it is) if everyone used different reference points.
speaking of display settings, is there a general preference between Game mode and PC mode?
Game mode on my Samsung is generally fine (and gives me more display options) but the PC setting completely disables that stupid auto-dimming feature so I'm leaning towards sticking with that.
Game mode on my Samsung is generally fine (and gives me more display options) but the PC setting completely disables that stupid auto-dimming feature so I'm leaning towards sticking with that.
Usually, Game Mode has less lag, but depending on the screen, it fucks up all of your settings, increases sharpness, messes up colour temperate etc.
PC mode usually tries its best to give you the most accurate picture I find. No overscan, SRGB, 4:4:4 chroma etc. and this tends to have less lag (although sometimes game can have even less but personally I don't think it's worthwhile).
Sometimes, though, Game Mode COMPLETELY fucks with your picture. I see this shit on Gaming Monitors usually. Ugly as fuck.
Megawarrior
Member
Whatever the calibration recommendation on rtings is.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Your living room is cold!❄
I would like to think that developers utilize monitors/TVs during development that are either certified calibrated from the factory floor or have had in-house or 3rd party professional calibration done after purchase. With that being said the titles "Warm", "Warm 2", "Expert" etc shouldn't be focused on as much as the proper color temperature itself which is 6500K. My knowledge may be a tad rusty but when rec. 601 (Standard Definition for NTSC territories) was established 6500K was also the determined standard color temperature that video would operate in, this used to be even "warmer" which is why older B&W films appear to be tinged brown or sepia colored (i.e Noir) when viewed today.
In my experience and in checking out many reviews on sets I do not own or have experience with "Warm" options are typically the most accurate to 6500K while "Standard" to "Cool" options are almost always too "Cool" and tinge the image blue. What everyone needs to keep in mind is that this can differ from set to set and manufacturer to manufacturer; for some sets "Standard" may actually be correct with "Warm" options tinging the image yellow.
If you care about your color temperature, or really your set's overall picture quality at all, then I highly recommend purchasing a calibration/adjustment blu-ray which will walk you through making user level adjustments to get a more accurate picture. If nothing else you can find the white balance slides from those discs online to use to check what the most accurate color temperature setting is for your particular TV. Of course you'll either need to already have a accurate screen on hand to compare it to or have had enough experience with properly calibrated screens and the slide itself to be able to tell just by looking which is the more accurate setting.
In my experience and in checking out many reviews on sets I do not own or have experience with "Warm" options are typically the most accurate to 6500K while "Standard" to "Cool" options are almost always too "Cool" and tinge the image blue. What everyone needs to keep in mind is that this can differ from set to set and manufacturer to manufacturer; for some sets "Standard" may actually be correct with "Warm" options tinging the image yellow.
If you care about your color temperature, or really your set's overall picture quality at all, then I highly recommend purchasing a calibration/adjustment blu-ray which will walk you through making user level adjustments to get a more accurate picture. If nothing else you can find the white balance slides from those discs online to use to check what the most accurate color temperature setting is for your particular TV. Of course you'll either need to already have a accurate screen on hand to compare it to or have had enough experience with properly calibrated screens and the slide itself to be able to tell just by looking which is the more accurate setting.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Neutral. I can't stand the piss filter of the warm settings. Although usually you also need to go in and tweak many of the other settings to get it right. I'm just lazy!
EnergizerFellow
Member
Exactly. This is truly a case of "correct" and "off".
Kind of. While everybody seemingly agrees on D65 and BT.2020, you have the whole situation of 2160p vs 4320p resolution, ST 2084 vs HLG EOTF curves, RGB vs YCbCr vs ICtCp color, and 1K vs 10K peak brightness. It's already ossified in the BT.2100 standard, complete with frame rates up to 120. We'll be seeing a lot more of BT.2100 soon I bet.
Somebody like the My Life In Gaming guys need to do a piece on setting white points and gamma curves using a X-Rite i1Display Pro and DisplayCAL with a Chromecast.
Sooo true, sadly. Supposedly the Xbox One now has correct color if you leave it at limited range YCbCr and don't touch it.
Sad but true. Same for the guys all about "latency, latency, latency", but end up using wireless controllers, wifi, spdif, etc.
I think you're on to something here...