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[onQ123]

You were right all along, I have to admit that.
Since Im not as knowledgeable with tech like some people here, I didn't have conflict of opinion with you, but I admit I showed some discomfort everytime you said "uprendering" and "double precision" which both ended be very true.

So I apologize for that

Thanks

Are you from the future? Blink once if yes

 

[ethomaz]

Long shot but do we know of the pro will give an option to output to 1440p?
Would be nice to still get the benefits of downsampling while playing at my native resolution

I don't think 1440p output is an option because there is no HDTV in the market with that native resolution.

The options are:

480p
720p
1080i
1080p
4k

Guess I'll just have to hope my monitor accepts a 4K signal without issue lol

Your monitor accepts 1080p signal where Pro will downsample from a higher resolution if no 1080p Pro mode exists.

 

[onQ123]

Long shot but do we know of the pro will give an option to output to 1440p?
Would be nice to still get the benefits of downsampling while playing at my native resolution

I'm not sure if Sony will support it because it cause a little more confusion with what they are doing but I think Xbox Scorpio will more than likely support it because it's more like a PC.

 

[cooldawn]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

 

[dragonelite]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

Gotta sell those new tv models.

 

[III-V]

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p.

If you read what Cerny has said, I think you will find that this is not going to be the case. Cerny repeatedly has said that this console is a PS4.

We know its up to devs to deliver what else we will see. I have no doubt that some will surely deliver something special, something rare...

Gotta sell those new tv models.

Right, cause thats what Cerny has been on about the whole time.

 

[2blackcats]

Gotta sell those new tv models.

People keeps saying this but it's a load of crap, people are buying Samsungs anyway.


It's the other way around I think. The people buying the 4k TVs have the disposable income and Sony wants to sell them the Pro to go with it.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

The PS4 Pro version of Paragon is only going up to 1080p and pushing fidelity as much as it can at 60fps. Probably a rare case but it's at least one example of it.

 

[Inuhanyou]

What's a PS4 Pro to the best PC has to offer?

Mid low range, just like PS4 was in 2013(which is low entree level at this point). In general, the GPU is the only thing that was actually really updated to a decent amount. CPU is still anemic and RAM is the same(bandwidth is sped up about 30% or so.

Sony is not selling this thing at a loss for the price.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

That is like asking for a PS5, right now. Not happening. Sony still believes in the PS5, and have made clear since the Pro was first leaked that the Pro was not intended to be that, but a PC like option, where the same games as the PS4 are run at a higher fidelity.

At the very most, you'll see 1080p enhanced titles of already made games, where higher graphical settings that already exist on PC are enabled on console, like Tomb Raider is doing.

 

[qa_engineer]

Damn.i had no idea the pro was sporting so many enhancements and new technologies. I may get one on launch day now as opposed to Christmas.

 

[onQ123]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

The ID buffer & other changers make me feel the same way but I think devs will still learn new techniques even with PS4 Pro being more of a enhanced PS4.

 

[Always-honest]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

That's not happening.
But some (hopefully a lot) devs will put in extra effort to bring extra bells and whistles to the 1080P version. That's almost as good as made for PSPro i think. Since it's basicly a PS4 with an extra graphics card and some improvements.

Edit: oh well, like stated by others above ;P

 

[Charcoal]

Are there still any places that are offering a trade it bonus for the OG PS4? The Pro is getting very tempting.

 

[RedSwirl]

The most interesting information to me was the doubling down by Sony on there being a PS5. That shows just how optional this unit is, and they can build on and use the techniques learned with this hardware in that generational shift.

But i think some people have it confused, just because Sony sees generations as something to continue doesn't mean backwards compatibility is unlikely. It just means they aren't mandating MS style forwards compatibility, which i personally think hurts game development.

I don't know where the viewpoint came from that because Sony still see a huge upgrade complete with a new generation standard as a new gen, that that means automatically leaving behind the previous generation. The entire point of moving to x86 i thought was to make this kind of thing much easier, and even in 3 years, GCN, RAM and such are all going to be similar to how they operate today.

I never had any doubt there would be a PS5, or at least a console that Sony calls the PS5. It's just a question of how the PS5 will relate to the PS4 or any consoles that come later, whether any kind of backwards and forwards compatibility will be possible.

What I still think may happen with a least Microsoft and maybe also Sony is that at a certain point they market a new console as "next gen" and drop their forwards compatibility mandate, but a ton of developers still choose to do forwards compatibility anyway as a replacement of the cross-gen games they always do upon every console transition. Instead of seeing separate PS4 and PS5 versions of Battlefield 2020 or whatever, EA could choose to just sell you one SKU with a PS4 mode and a PS5 mode. But then some other publisher (like Sony first party) could make other games that are PS5-only and really take advantage of the PS5. The closest thing I can think of that we've already seen in gaming is the Game Boy Color, where you had games with a GB mode and a GBC mode, but also a lot of really impressive-looking games that were GBC-only.

 

[Krakin]

It's nice to see people apologizing to OnQ

 

[dr_rus]

Again, this has nothing to do with what i'm talking about. Whether its slow or fast for gaming usage has ZERO bearing on my argument. My whole point is Nvidia artificially restricts performance on their consumer cards when compared to their Pro cards. Whether via hardware or software, it is an artificial segmentation done by Nvidia to sell pro cards. I think I'm done repeating myself

No, it's not. Don't see any point explaining why again. Go compare GP100 with GP102 complexity yourself and remember that these GPUs have the same amount of SPs.

Polaris added a native FP16 unit that runs at the same speed than FP32 that gives no advantage over FP32 at all.

Polaris (or was it GCN3 actually?) added the ability to pack two FP16 registers into one FP32 register and as a result there's considerably less register pressure when you're using FP16 precision on Polaris. So the processing throughput is still same as FP32 but shaders are able to hold twice as much data in registers when using FP16 which may be beneficial in some cases.

 

[Wishmaster92]

For now, paragon is the technical showcase every ps4 pro version of games should strive for.

900p -> 1080p bump, maybe even higher?
60fps
Added graphical effects. I noticed per object motion blur, not sure if the ps4 version has this.
More detailed environments (just look at the rocks and added grass)

 

[LelouchZero]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

Something similar could happen to some extent, by pushing the Pro as a lead platform and rendering games on the standard PS4 at lower resolutions or by utilizing dynamic resolutions. A lot more can be done with the new hardware.

 

[SonicAaron]

I'd assumed devs would just just develop for PS4 Pro then choose a lower res and less effects for PS4

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm trying to contextualise how good a game would look utilising a PS4 Pro to the max with this semi-bespoke technology.

I read all this stuff and think to myself 'is it worth considering?', since Cerny/Sony implied they aren't pushing for high-quality 1080p but rather 4k content. Even though I'd disagree it's a better differentiator to them strategically. Then I read it and want one again.

I just don't know what to do...especially since it seems like the technology will still not be flexing it's muscles, instead catering for another new standard in 4K.

I want to see ground-up developed PS4 Pro titles for 1080p. I guess that would be something really special, unique and very, very rare...if at all.

The more frequent new consoles are released the less ground-up developed titles you will see...

 

[Bsigg12]

I'd assumed devs would just just develop for PS4 Pro then choose a lower res and less effects for PS4

That sounds like it'll lead to shit ports for the PS4. Considering the install base, I would expect the PS4 to be the target and add to that. They're not using 4K textures but increasing performance or adding something here and there would be fine.

 

[Chamber]

Are there still any places that are offering a trade it bonus for the OG PS4? The Pro is getting very tempting.

Gamestop bumped the trade in value up to $150 which is the highest I've seen. Might still want to wait to see if they do their usual 20% bonus toward new hardware once the Pro is actually out.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Uncharted 4's pro patch is the one I'm least impressed with as it is just basic brute force of higher resolution and added hdr. Coming from Naughty Dog i was expecting this patch to be special and maybe add back those graphical effects present in the 2014 teaser. However this quote from the article is very interesting.

Uncharted 4 is undergoing retooling ("they're taking another look at rendering strategies," says Cerny)

what else would this be for? Shame this wasn't further elaborated on. Anyways for now this is the difference:

PS4 can use FP16 but it will still be 1.84TF & no it's not exclusive to PS4 pro Nintendo Switch will most likely have a GPU with FP16 as it's peak Flop number & most mobile devices have higher FP16 throughput than FP32.

It is capable but not 2x faster FP32... so if FP16 is slower or runs at the same speed than FP32 you are better stay with FP32.

There is no advantage do use FP16 neither on PC, PS4 or XB1.

Polaris added a native FP16 unit that runs at the same speed than FP32 that gives no advantage over FP32 at all.

Pro looks to use Vega FP16 native support that runs 2x faster than FP32 and that can give some advantage using it over FP32.

Thanks for the explanation guys. And i wish your junior status is lifted onQ123, you definitely know your stuff and deserve it.

 

[SonicAaron]

That sounds like it'll lead to shit ports for the PS4. Considering the install base, I would expect the PS4 to be the target and add to that. They're not using 4K textures but increasing performance or adding something here and there would be fine.

You're quite right. Reading it back I'm being a bit selfish.

I just thought that generally you dev'd for the top platform then powered things down for lower platforms

 

[Bsigg12]

You're quite right. Reading it back I'm being a bit selfish.

I just thought that generally you dev'd for the top platform then powered things down for lower platforms

I completely understand that. I think you gotta focus on the largest group first and foremost and maybe in a couple years as Pros become more prevalent you could take the route of Pro first and lowered to PS4 after.

The benefits of being able to focus on say the Pro and eventually Scorpio will be games that look a generation ahead of what is possible with the PS4/Xbox One but you do risk the possibility of when bringing it down to run on those platforms you butcher the experience.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Does the PS4 Pro use a generic kettle lead for power, meaning I can use it internationally if I simply buy a regular power cable (not official) for the region I'm in?

 

[Tripolygon]

Does the PS4 Pro use a generic kettle lead for power, meaning I can use it internationally if I simply buy a regular power cable (not official) for the region I'm in?

I'm assuming you mean you can buy Pro from US and use it in Europe?

Then yes.

 

[2blackcats]

I'm assuming you mean you can buy Pro from US and use it in Europe?

Then yes.

You're sure about this? I haven't seen dual voltage listed in any specs unlike the previous 3 playstations(including vita).

I did so a 110v only listing somewhere though.

 

[Tripolygon]

You're sure about this? I haven't seen dual voltage listed in any specs unlike the previous 3 playstations(including vita).

I did so a 110v only listing somewhere though.

Sony's consoles have always been rated for international use, and all but Vita has used standard power plugs, Vita then changed to USB.

I've traveled with PS1,PS2,PS3,PSP,PS Vita.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

I'm assuming you mean you can buy Pro from US and use it in Europe?

Then yes.

Well Europe to Japan, but same idea. And I wouldn't need a travel adapter or local power cable, I could just use a generic lead like those used for PCs?

 

[2blackcats]

Sony's consoles have always been rated for international use, and all but Vita has used standard power plugs, Vita then changed to USB.

I've traveled with PS1,PS2,PS3,PSP,PS Vita.

I'm aware of all that.

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/explore/ps4/tech-specs/

Check the specs on the official website, 110 - 220v on PS4, 100v on Pro.


Can't say I've ever noticed 100 v on anything before.

While I'm looking forward to getting a pro, I'm moving from a 110 v country to a 220v country in a year so I'd really like to know for sure.

You just assuming it's dual voltage (with good reason) or is it confirmed somewhere?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I'd assumed devs would just just develop for PS4 Pro then choose a lower res and less effects for PS4

And piss off 40 million plus potential consumers. This isn't a new generation where it is expected and you could get away with doing that.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You're quite right. Reading it back I'm being a bit selfish.

I just thought that generally you dev'd for the top platform then powered things down for lower platforms

Its much more common sense to try and drive a boat in a lake than trying to fit it in a swimming pool.

Downporting is inherently much harder than upporting. It would be like sony coming out with a weaker downclocked PS4 and then telling devs to fit their games that they optimized for PS4 onto it.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

I'm aware of all that.

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/explore/ps4/tech-specs/

Check the specs on the official website, 110 - 220v on PS4, 100v on Pro.


Can't say I've ever noticed 100 v on anything before.

While I'm looking forward to getting a pro, I'm moving from a 110 v country to a 220v country in a year so I'd really like to know for sure.

You just assuming it's dual voltage (with good reason) or is it confirmed somewhere?

Both the British and Japanese official spec pages say 100v, not sure what that means (the site is wrong?)

 

[Cerbero]

When people say "It's not a 4K console" it's not for shitposting, the list of 4K native titles is conposed by either non demanding indie games or old games from the ps3 era, a GTX 970 can also achieve the same results in the games that are available on pc, would you call the 970 a 4K card? There, that's the poing they are trying to make, nothing more or malicious.

 

[Alej]

When people say "It's not a 4K console" it's not for shitposting, the list of 4K native titles is conposed by either non demanding indie games or old games from the ps3 era, a GTX 970 can also achieve the same results in the games that are available on pc, would you call the 970 a 4K card? There, that's the poing they are trying to make, nothing more or malicious.

This is FUD.

 

[Moreche]

I want to do a data transfer between my current PS4 and Pro when it arrives but how long would it take to transfer about 500GB over to the Pro?
Thanks.

 

[ethomaz]

When people say "It's not a 4K console" it's not for shitposting, the list of 4K native titles is conposed by either non demanding indie games or old games from the ps3 era, a GTX 970 can also achieve the same results in the games that are available on pc, would you call the 970 a 4K card? There, that's the poing they are trying to make, nothing more or malicious.

Because you trying to put labels on products.

GTX 970 delivers 4k.
Pro delivers 4k.

It can not be the same quality of 1440p or 1080p but they can deliver 4k.

So yes you should call a GTX 970 a 4k card... hell even nVidia says it is a 4k card.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/4k/supported-gpus

 

[Inuhanyou]

When people say "It's not a 4K console" it's not for shitposting, the list of 4K native titles is conposed by either non demanding indie games or old games from the ps3 era, a GTX 970 can also achieve the same results in the games that are available on pc, would you call the 970 a 4K card? There, that's the poing they are trying to make, nothing more or malicious.

Its a 4K card if it can deliver 4K gaming. A 970 can run a lot of 7th gen games in 4K, therefore it is a 4K capable GPU. A pro can run plenty of games in its library at 4K, it is a 4K console.

XB1 is also a 1080p ready and compatible console, despite its most demanding titles being unable to hit 1080p as easily as PS4.

 

[Dredd97]

When people say "It's not a 4K console" it's not for shitposting, the list of 4K native titles is conposed by either non demanding indie games or old games from the ps3 era, a GTX 970 can also achieve the same results in the games that are available on pc, would you call the 970 a 4K card? There, that's the poing they are trying to make, nothing more or malicious.

yeah?

no..

it's for shitposting...

some people hate the fact that the Pro can indeed do native 4K games, with examples given that because it doesn't have a 4K blu-ray drive it can't do 4K or can only do 2D games at 4K.. at best it's uninformed dribble.. at worst it's drive-by shitposting for a laugh..

 

[televator]

So how exactly does the Pro downsample? Does it downsample from checkerboard pseudo 4K or another full resolution?

 

[Cerbero]

This is FUD.

sorry, no idea what you mean

Because you trying to put labels on products.

GTX 970 delivers 4k.
Pro delivers 4k.

It can not be the same quality of 1440p or 1080p but they can deliver 4k.

So yes you should call a GTX 970 a 4k card... hell even nVidia says it is a 4k card.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/4k/supported-gpus

so is a 650 then, really?

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

When people say "It's not a 4K console" it's not for shitposting, the list of 4K native titles is conposed by either non demanding indie games or old games from the ps3 era, a GTX 970 can also achieve the same results in the games that are available on pc, would you call the 970 a 4K card? There, that's the poing they are trying to make, nothing more or malicious.

Pretty sure PES2017 is current gen and native 4K/60 so erm shitposting it is then!

 

[Cerbero]

Its a 4K card if it can deliver 4K gaming. A 970 can run a lot of 7th gen games in 4K, therefore it is a 4K capable GPU. A pro can run plenty of games in its library at 4K, it is a 4K console.

XB1 is also a 1080p ready and compatible console, despite its most demanding titles being unable to hit 1080p as easily as PS4.

going by this logic every card is a 4K card because there are games old enough to run at 4K on it.

 

[dr_rus]

So how exactly does the Pro downsample? Does it downsample from checkerboard pseudo 4K or another full resolution?

This is something I'd like to know as well. If it's downsample to 1080p from that reconstructed 4K then it will bring to 1080p all the artifacts of 4K reconstruction too which isn't ideal. However, downsampling to 1080p from some 2560x1440 native res isn't ideal either.

 

[ethomaz]

so is a 650 then, really?

It can output 4k... yes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TF2VPHGj_YY

There are a lot of 4k games running on GTX 650

going by this logic every card is a 4K card because there are games old enough to run at 4K on it.

Old cards can't output 4k.

So no... not all cards are 4k... GTX 650 is considered one of the cheapest 4k card in tech forums.

 

[Cerbero]

It can output 4k... yes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TF2VPHGj_YY

There are a lot of 4k games running on GTX 650


Old cards can't output 4k.

So no... not all cards are 4k... GTX 650 is considered the cheapest 4k card in tech forums.

lol, i give up

 

[ethomaz]

lol, i give up

What you wanted to hear btw?

These cards renders games in 4k... maybe not in the quality of what you expect but it is still 4k. Pro do a way better job than most 4k cards in PC.

You trying to display something that doesn't need to.

I can be wrong but there are over ten 4k native games confirmed for PS4 already.

I'll add to the list as more of the native 4K games are revealed:

- Bound (Native 4K@60FPS)
- forma.8 (Native 4K@60FPS + 8xMSAA )
- Futuridium EP Deluxe (Native 4K@60FPS)
- Hustle Kings (Native 4K@60?FPS)
- Mantis Burn Racing (Native 4K@60FPS)
- Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor (Native 4K 80-90% of the time/Dynamic Resolution)
- NBA 2K17 (Native 4K@60FPS + HDR)
- Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 (Native 4K@60FPS)
- Rez Infinite (Native 4K@60FPS)
- Skyrim Special Edition (Native 4K@30FPS)
- Smite (Native 4K@60FPS)
- The Elder Scroll Online (Native 4K@30FPS with enhanced details over PS4 version)
- The Last Of Us Remastered (Native 4K@30FPS with the best shadows)
- Thumper (Native 4K@60FPS) Not sure about this one.
- Viking Squad (Native 4K@60FPS).
- VizionEck (Native 4K@60FPS)
- Wheels of Aurelia (Native 4K)

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

lol, i give up

Surely you can't deny that PES2017 is a current gen game using a current gen engine (Fox Engine) that will be pushing 4k native at 60FPS? Sure not all games will hit 4K that's the same as saying the XB1 isn't 1080 as quite a few games aren't. The PS4 Pro already has a selection of native 4K games coming which in my opinion gives it the right to be called a 4K machine,

 

[Always-honest]

So how exactly does the Pro downsample? Does it downsample from checkerboard pseudo 4K or another full resolution?

I'd like to know too. It would ba a shame if the 1080P version gets a shitload of artifacts.