I don't see why any of this would necessitate rewriting in the remake either. OP didn't bother to actually thoughtfully analyse the relationship dynamic and the character himself, and maybe wait until finishing the game. He never beats her either, so maybe think before writing an inflammatory thread title like that.
People will look for any little thing to make a mountain out of a mole hill, and calling it a mole hill is giving you far too much credit.
People aren't perfect. You can be a complete asshole and still have a hand in saving the world. I guess it's more realistic when characters aren't all beacons of morality.
bc if he was just an asshole to the one person it would be gratuitous. clearly he's a jerk to everyone as that is as much a part of his character as constantly smoking a cigarette and basically being Clint Eastwood
Don't worry, in the remake he'll be all smiles and sunshine and politely ask you if you please have a seat and partake in some tea. There will also be no swearing at all, implied or actual, so don't worry about any naughty words (or gibberish masking naughty words).
I wasn't defending being wrong, I was laughing at how it made so many people flip out like it was as big of a deal as the character being called abusive. Like if I called Chris Brown a wife beater, would there be a legion of people correcing me that Rihanna was only his girlfriend?
Yeah I don't see any replies flipping out about it, most point out that he's not married to her and doesn't beat her. Them not being married is a technicality but him not beating her actually does change the context significantly and I think just about every reply that mention hey weren't married also pointed the fact he doesn't lay a hand on her out.
If someone had called Chris Brown a wife beater and his was neither married to Rihanna and hadn't hit her they'd be perfectly in the right for defending him on that. Granted that's not the case and the guy is scum.
I've always thought the story lacks a point where Cid realizes that she truly does mean more to him and that he made the right choice, accepting that he owes her the apology of a lifetime. I dunno, it's weird. All the elements are there, but it's like it's missing a few bits of the script to truly close it down.
I wasn't defending being wrong, I was laughing at how it made so many people flip out like it was as big of a deal as the character being called abusive. Like if I called Chris Brown a wife beater, would there be a legion of people correcing me that Rihanna was only his girlfriend?
I don't see why any of this would necessitate rewriting in the remake either. OP didn't bother to actually thoughtfully analyse the relationship dynamic and the character himself, and maybe wait until finishing the game. He never beats her either, so maybe think before writing an inflammatory thread title like that.
People will look for any little thing to make a mountain out of a mole hill, and calling it a mole hill is giving you far too much credit.
Not really, a lot of posts have criticized his character. That aspect of his character isn't portrayed as a positive one and I don't understand how someone could play the game and view it as such.
Haha, Final Fantasy games do this all the time. I guess when you are a 15-year old playing these games for the first time 32 does seem like an old man.
I hope in the remake they make their age more realistic. Like make Barret and Cid visibly in their late 30s or hell even early 40s. It separates them more from the main cast and gives them more gravitas to the characters, I think.
bc if he was just an asshole to the one person it would be gratuitous. clearly he's a jerk to everyone as that is as much a part of his character as constantly smoking a cigarette and basically being Clint Eastwood
Oddly enough, Tifa is one of the few characters he seems genuinely nice towards. Even refers to her as "Nee-san/Sis" twice (once in the localization, twice in the Japanese script).
Could be a case of projection where he secretly wishes Shera would be more confident and outspoken like Tifa, hence the respect.
Not every character is sunshine and rainbows, which makes it pretty great. She put him in a really fucked up position, like he was supposed to be all right with murder and just go through with the launch.
And this is what makes this game great for me, none of the main characters are flawless. Hell, most of them made decisions that they came to regret later or were so in deep of their vision of how things are/should be that couldn't see things from another perspective.
In the case of Cid,
we actually see that it was Shera that ended up saving his life and not the other way around as the oxygen tank she was checking was indeed faulty
I think he means as a defence for having it be in the game. Like, it doesn't matter he's a dick to everyone, he's also a dick to this woman that worked with him and that can't be allowed and showing how it's his character to be a dick is somehow defending it when the whole point is that Cid is a dick and unlikable and him starting to actually show appreciation to Shera is part of his character arc is somehow saying it's ok to beat you wife.
Oddly enough, Tifa is one of the few characters he seems genuinely nice towards. Even refers to her as "Nee-san/Sis" twice (once in the localization, twice in the Japanese script).
Could be a case of projection where he secretly wishes Shera would be more confident and outspoken like Tifa, hence the respect.
Speaking of Tifa, i wonder how the remake will treat her
breakdown and waiting at Cloud's side, even telling Barret that she didn't care about anybody else but Cloud. She's always been shown as super capable in the party, and while i can understand her strong emotions for him, its also going to be a delicate balancing act
Speaking of Tifa, i wonder how the remake will treat her
breakdown and waiting at Cloud's side, even telling Barret that she didn't care about anybody else but Cloud. She's always been shown as super capable in the party, and while i can understand her strong emotions for him, its also going to be a delicate balancing act
I've never understood the love for the FF7 cast, many of them are just horrible people. Spoilers for the whole story below since TC hasn't finished the game before.
You brought up Cid and yeah hes very abusive but hes not the only one.
Cloud is a jackass throughout the entire time but the thing that I hated most about his character is when....
After the first Cait Sith sacrifices himself to form the black materia and Sephiroth takes over Cloud he ends up beating Aerith (its not shown well on the screen but you can clearly see it happening before the screen goes dark) which causes her to go off on her own trying to end things. Later on he also gives Sephiroth the black materia when he realizes hes just a puppet because he can't handle the fact that hes not a super awesome guy after all this time. Okay I'm exaggerating a bit here but seriously while its an interesting plot twist the reason for Cloud actively helping Sephiroth at this point just makes him look like a pathetic asshole.
Barret is running a literal terrorist organization. Sure SAVE THE PLANET great indoctrination speech Barret but in the end as evil as Shinra ultimately is Barret and his terrorist group are the ones who escalate the violence by blowing up 2 different reactors likely killing thousands each time which directly causes Shinra to say 'fuck it' and drop the Sector 7 plate killing MILLIONS. Yes Shinra is evil as fuck but the reason why they did that was to get rid of the terrorists who had escalated the violence from small acts of violence to mass murder and destruction. He's also attempting to raise a little girl in such an environment while he frequently spouts off an insane bout of verbal garbage and violence (attacking the other members of Avalanche when they won't let him attack Cloud) which likely will screw her up for life.
With Tifa most of what I said about Barret also applies to her but she is sick in another way (Major spoilers)
She knows there is clearly wrong with Cloud near the beginning but when he tells the story in Kalm she HAS to know at that point that there is something seriously wrong with him but she chooses to say NOTHING. She keeps it all to herself and if she had even told one single person among the group such as Barret who shes been working with for years they might have been able to ultimately figure out what was wrong with him before Aerith died or he gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth. While I used this to say she actively chooses to say nothing to make her character look worse honestly this is just a major plot hole that is never explained. I personally find it hard to believe that after hearing events of Kalm form Clouds perspective that she didn't go up to Barret or Aerith at that point and be like... "Umm yeah... I have no idea why Cloud knows all of these things that happened but... that story was full of bull shit and I think there might be something wrong with him. EVEN if you want to argue 'she didn't remember it well' or something like that it still doesn't answer why after the events I mentioned about Cloud BEATING Aerith that they would let him of all people go anywhere near her at the end of disk one.
Cait Sith
Aka Reeve, works for Shinra. Pretty much nuff said. He also betrays them multiple times.
Yuffie is a thief, yeah okay not the worst thing in the world but there is an entire long ass side quest involving her
Stealing all of your materia
which makes the entire quest line drag on and on when you can't perform in battle as well as you could before hand.
Vincent... Just... Dirge of Cerberus.
My main point is that a lot of these characters are just awful awful people, killing millions of innocent people, putting the entire world in danger because they are so self centered and don't think anything through. Yes they go through character arcs and are well developed but that doesn't change what they did and I cannot stand how the game puts such a shining light on the group as being these flawed individuals who become heroes, they aren't. Not all of them are on the same level but most of this group are just evil and instead of the game trying to show any form of complex characters in a complex world with many colors of gray between the stark 'light' (good) and 'dark' (bad) characteristics we normally see, instead it clearly sets up that Shinra is evil and that everything the MC's are doing is okay because SAVE THE PLANET when they are just as bad if not worse in some cases. Again, I think if the game wanted to really have a morally gray story then they would have done that but the story makes a clear indication that Shinra (and Sephiroth) are the evils in the world that must be stopped and anything to bring up a morally gray point for the main characters is never even brought up (such as how many people they kill when they blow up 2 different reactors).
Ff7 is my favourite game, yet still. It is quite disturbing watching people here defend the outright emotional abuse he inflicts on this girl & try to say "well he didn't beat her".
You guys realize how absolutely scary you sound? Years removed from that game, we should be better equpped to understand social issues like that are absolutely unforgiveable.
Yeah, Square explored such a dunamic and worked places, but they never really explored why it was a problem for Cid to behave the way he did, instead opting for his heel/face turn once he accomplished his goal. Yes OP, they want you to like him. Their execution was sadly off however. Thanks for discussing it.
had no control over his body though, right? Sounds like you'4re mad at Sephiroth. Tifa also was in no way planning to destroy Cloud's crumbling psyche & warning somebody like Barret would've compromised her trying to fogure out how to shield Cloud from his own delusions, something the story reveals she admittedly fails at and realises she should atone for. Cait Sith? That's what made that who red herring of a character interesting, as the one controlling him decides to make thinhs right.
Seems like much pf your points don't want them to be layered characters who ultimately realise the consequences of their actions. That and another user adressed that Barret killing millions of innocents is factually incorrect.
Cid's a piece of shit with a heart of gold. He is pretty rough when you first encounter him but he clearly makes an effort to improve by the end of the game.
It's a pretty basic RPG character arc but I find him endearing and I like when games present characters who aren't all kind hearted justice loving superheroes.
He never physically abused her though as far as I can recall - but hes still a piece of shit to her until he starts to change.
Speaking of Tifa, i wonder how the remake will treat her
breakdown and waiting at Cloud's side, even telling Barret that she didn't care about anybody else but Cloud. She's always been shown as super capable in the party, and while i can understand her strong emotions for him, its also going to be a delicate balancing act
As World of Final Fantasy reiterates in her character profile, Tifa is someone who carries a heavy burden in that she acts the role of a dependable, outwardly positive person who deep down suffers from shyness and self-doubt.
Her breakdown from watching the person she loved most fall into a possible point of no return was totally warranted and believable. It's similar to Zidane or (best meguca) Sayaka, where the most confident/strongest character is the one to break down under the weight of their immense hubris.
Oh please. None of these characters are evil. Saying that automatically gets you crossed off the list.
They never killed millions of people, they exploded the sector factories thinking that was what they needed to do. They are terrorists after all.
We obviously know the people who would essentially drop an entire plate on the town just to kill these guys like Rufus are the real villains, which makes their weird back and forth between comedic relief later on in the game(and in the compilation material) so strange.
Yeah, i am confident they can rewrite these issues, but saying the cast are evil because they are conflicted, grey area characters who obviously are not one note is specifically why people like them in the first place.
With Tifa most of what I said about Barret also applies to her but she is sick in another way (Major spoilers)
She knows there is clearly wrong with Cloud near the beginning but when he tells the story in Kalm she HAS to know at that point that there is something seriously wrong with him but she chooses to say NOTHING. She keeps it all to herself and if she had even told one single person among the group such as Barret who shes been working with for years they might have been able to ultimately figure out what was wrong with him before Aerith died or he gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth. While I used this to say she actively chooses to say nothing to make her character look worse honestly this is just a major plot hole that is never explained. I personally find it hard to believe that after hearing events of Kalm form Clouds perspective that she didn't go up to Barret or Aerith at that point and be like... "Umm yeah... I have no idea why Cloud knows all of these things that happened but... that story was full of bull shit and I think there might be something wrong with him. EVEN if you want to argue 'she didn't remember it well' or something like that it still doesn't answer why after the events I mentioned about Cloud BEATING Aerith that they would let him of all people go anywhere near her at the end of disk one.
There's actually a deleted scene from the original game (that I hope makes its way into the Remake) where Tifa has a private conversation with Aerith where she comes clean with what she knows.
Aerith tells her to continue keeping it a secret, since they don't know how Cloud would react.
Considering how he does react, she made the right call in an impossible scenario
Yo, that was justified man; they are killing the planet!
Seriously though, his character was that of a jerk at that moment. Everyone isn't going to smell like flowers, sing poetry and praise the world every day in all games. He's one of the "good guys" with a bad attitude/personality....
I wouldn't want them to completely re-write him, but yeah Cid could probably use some tweaks for the remake. The excessive swearing (while funny at times) is a bit too much.
I don't want them to tone down his verbal abusiveness towards Shera though. The whole point of his initial character set up is how bitter he is over Shera (allegedly) ruining his dream. I strongly disagree with the assertion that he's just an "asshole" to everyone. He's an asshole, but the difference between how he treats someone like Cloud and Shera is completely different. He feels genuine contempt towards her, and you know exactly where it comes from. Seeing him make up with her after the (admittedly cliche set up) is one of the most emotionally satisfying moments in FF7 for me.
As World of Final Fantasy reiterates in her character profile, Tifa is someone who carries a heavy burden in that she acts the role of a dependable, outwardly positive person who deep down suffers from shyness and self-doubt.
Her breakdown from watching the person she loved most fall into a possible point of no return was totally warranted and believable. It's similar to Zidane or (best meguca) Sayaka, where the most confident/strongest character is the one to break down under the weight of their immense hubris.
That is another viewpoint i've thought of before. Its just going to have to be written with nuance, so people don't get the wrong impression about her character.
Ff7 is my favourite game, yet still. It is quite disturbing watching people here defend the outright emotional abuse he inflicts on this girl & try to say "well he didn't beat her".
You guys realize how absolutely scary you sound? Years removed from that game, we should be better equpped to understand social issues like that are absolutely unforgiveable.
Yeah, Square explored such a dunamic and worked places, but they never really explored why it was a problem for Cid to behave the way he did, instead opting for his heel/face turn once he accomplished his goal. Yes OP, they want you to like him. Their execution was sadly off however. Thanks for discussing it.
The OP is factually wrong saying he beat her, literally no one in this thread is saying the way he acted was acceptable.
His character is portrayed as flawed and I honestly don't see how literally anyone could play the game and not realize that. The man lost his dream and became a miserable abusive person who eventually realizes what he did was wrong. I'm not excusing his behavior the way he acted was horrible.
Cid is an asshole and an abuser but I never got the impression the game was telling me I should like him just because he's in my party. Thankfully the guy gets shown how much of an ass he's been by the end of his story ark.
one of the best character themes Uematsu has composed imo. Paused the game when it first played for like 15 min because I didn't want to stop listening to it.
How could you even support a racist bigot like Eastwood by watching his movie? Clearly if he has a character acting that way he supports that type of behavior and views it as acceptable.
There's actually a deleted scene from the original game (that I hope makes its way into the Remake) where Tifa has a private conversation with Aerith where she comes clean with what she knows.
Aerith tells her to continue keeping it a secret, since they don't know how Cloud would react.
Considering how he does react, she made the right call in an impossible scenario
Source? I had not herd that before. That would be really interesting if they did do something like that in the remake however...
Still doesn't make any sense why after physically beating her while being controlled by Sephiroth they let him anywhere near her at the end of disk 2, not to mention they let him go ALONE towards her which also doesn't make any sense besides to setup the obvious death.
Lol for real. I like the movie because of how he was. Cid is the same way. They can tone down a little of the cursing if they want, but he is who he is. I want his personality to stay the same.
I've never understood the love for the FF7 cast, many of them are just horrible people. Spoilers for the whole story below since TC hasn't finished the game before.
You pretty much listed most of the reasons people love these characters so much. They are very flawed, unlike most other goody-two-shoes JRPG protagonists. Also, apparently you completely misunderstood what was going on with Cloud,
