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[DriftingSpirit]

Im not defending bigotry. Im just trying to say that basing your own standards from others you decry is both hypocritical and Shitty.

They could educate themselves is just incredibly apathetic. If a person cant even be bothered to improve society for their own benefit. Why should that same person then expect others go out of their way to improve society for strangers that they have little experience with and have been taught to hate?

Incredible.

I'm in a perpetual state of shock at this point.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-krugman-donald-trump-racism_us_57b376cbe4b04ff883991b51
I mean it is kind of true.
What's there to discuss?

Things are bad. They're are a lot of racists. We shouldn't lean over and die for the next election. These racists didn't spring out of nowhere. They existed long before. We elected a black president even with them.

Can you change the minds of these people? No, but you can minimize losses with winning elections, which needs to be the DNC priority going forwards.

 

[Enzom21]

The point isn't that we need to appeal to racists, but that maybe we should try to understand what underlying factors caused a deplorable candidate like Donald Trump to win so that we can ensure it never happens again.

For the last year liberals have been smug as fuck laughing at the Republicans for putting forth such a ridiculous candidate that could never possibly win. We were so confident that instead of opening a dialogue with Trump supporters we told them to fuck off and made them into caricatures. Now the GOP controls the House, Senate, and Executive branch and the ramifications will last a generation. Sure, we can decide that all the people who voted for Trump are sexists/racists/misogynists and decide we never want their vote, but that path is just going to keep them controlling the government.

Did a large party of the country vote for a candidate they knew was bad for women and minorities because they thought he would make their life better? Yes. Is that terrible? Yes. However, pretending that these people are cartoon villains who voted for Trump only because of his racism and misogyny and not because they might have real issues of their own that were completely ignored by one candidate will achieve nothing and ensure that no progress is made.

We need to communicate, we need to educate, we need to work, we need to heal. Patting ourselves on the back for insulting straw men on social media and online forums had failed spectacularly.

Other white people maybe, but not people of color.

 

[Jonm1010]

Don't.

Don't you act like I'm doing nothing and that I just don't care about the process or its ugliness or whatever.

I've lived in this fucking process literally my ENTIRE life. My jaded skepticism about white moderates and middle america is formed from almost three decades on this earth of constant unending negative re-enforcement.

I apologize for assuming. However you might want to act like you preach. After you took what people like I am saying, injected assumption and then vilified it. That is very pot/kettle.


To get back on to it though, how do you determine what it is you do? Is it not a process that includes strengthening your knowledge base in order to better inform your decision-making and action? That is what people like me were saying. And if you wanted to know you could of asked.

 

[pigeon]

Incredible.

I'm in a perpetual state of shock at this point.

One of the valuable lessons of this year is that white people will say and do absolutely anything to protect other white people from being blamed for their white nationalism.

 

[Lumination]

Have you had to live your entire life with your family telling you "you have to never step out of line. You have to be good. You can pass, but your bother isn't so lucky, you need to be strong and smart for him. Don't go out after dark. Don't let your hair out. Don't grow facial hair they could profile you."? And that's just surface level stuff.

No. It's not my, nor other minorities responsibility to educate those that don't give a shit about us until we beat it into their heads. That's nonsense.

Why yes, I have.

But ok. Let's all hate. Fuck those bigots. Let's shame the shit out of them and hope they crawl back into their caves. Except we just proved that didn't work. What is the end goal here? You are putting your justified but misguided rage and frustration over the actual well-being of us minorities.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Edited.

 

[faisal233]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-krugman-donald-trump-racism_us_57b376cbe4b04ff883991b51
I mean it is kind of true.
What's there to discuss?

Why does it matter what drives the Trump voter? We all know that already. Fuck them.

Why do we need to build up a strawman about appeasing racists?

HillGaf really doesn't want to face the fact that Hillary was a flawed candidate that ran a terrible candidate.

Bigots didn't win, Dems lost by not showing up. Instead of worrying about the bigots, we needed to tend to our own base.

 

[Nanashrew]

That's a non-answer, and yet another snide one at that. The white vote behind Clinton would almost certainly be interested. Anyone with a bit of humanity would be behind it.

If a white man can't come to the table with some level of empathy for the plight of another human being and discuss, it's impossible for anything to happen. It is not the job for people of color to do this, they've already been fighting for scraps for decades just to reach someone's ear. It's by majority white people that will not do anything because none of this really affects them.

Some will often play the white guilt card too. People have become annoyed by that because it amounts to so little. So many say they are ashamed of their race but later do nothing about it to help educate other people of the plight of minorities and the best way to combat issues so that everyone can be safe and live a normal life. To have a discussion it takes at least two people, to deepen it, it needs more.

 

[Laughing Banana]

The opening post is a pretty narrow reading of the Letter from a Birmingham Jail.

The whole letter is about the need for non-violent protest, how it's always necessary when there is injustice, how there's no excuse for sitting by as people's God-given rights are stripped from them. That photo is a great thing to bring up when talking about any kind of protest movement. Never, ever stop protesting just because someone thinks it's inconvenient.

But the one thing it is not is an excuse to turn your back on your countrymen and shut them out.

To quote what may be my favorite paragraph of that same letter:



The letter is an impassioned plea to demonstrate the justice of his cause to those same "white moderates", the clergymen who should be sympathizing with his cause, but demand patience because they don't like his methods. He could have told them to go fuck themselves for standing in the way of his rights with their apathy, but instead he never loses sight of the fact that deep down, they believe in the same God and the same principles.

Today, we have been trying to live in monologue rather than dialogue. That has to change.

That doesn't mean tolerating bigotry, but at least try and listen to people instead of rushing to judgment. We can't have a democracy where each half of the nation is convinced that the other half wishes to destroy them.

Protest and dialogue are compliments, not adversaries.

Interesting analysis.

Anyone care to respond to this?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

One of the valuable lessons of this year is that white people will say and do absolutely anything to protect other white people from being blamed for their white nationalism.

Quoting this for truth, and then I'm out.

Some of you so called "allies" have disappointed me more than the Trump win. Good work.

 

[Frozenprince]

Why yes, I have.

But ok. Let's all hate. Fuck those bigots. Let's shame the shit out of them and hope they crawl back into their caves. Except we just proved that didn't work. What is the end goal here? You are putting your justified but misguided rage and frustration over the actual well-being of us minorities.

It's been proven that nothing fucking works.

It's been sixty years and "white moderates" are no more on our side than they were then.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

It just goes to show the amount of regard minorities have in this country. A man can run an election campaign that was a non-stop year of throwing groups of all kinds under the bus, with every offense being met with even more dedicated support, but when he wins and the people who are going to suffer the most dare to point out that bigotry played a huge role, THAT is going over the line. This is the regard America has for us. We have to take the bruises and just shrug about it.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

If a white man can't come to the table with some level of empathy for the plight of another human being and discuss, it's impossible for anything to happen. It is not the job for people of color to do this, they've already been fighting for scraps for decades just to reach someone's ear. It's by majority white people that will not do anything because none of this really affects them.

Some will often play the white guilt card too. People have become annoyed by that because it amounts to so little. So many say they are ashamed of their race but later do nothing about it to help educate other people of the plight of minorities and the best way to combat issues so that everyone can be safe and live a normal life. To have a discussion it takes at least two people, to deepen it, it needs more.

This seems to be a larger issue with people as a whole. And it doesn't help that people are very defensive any touchy about anything that might go against their views.

 

[Lowmelody]

So what happened next. Did they keep the conversation going until those bigots listened. Did they stand up for their own rights? Did they continue to treat all people with the human decency and respect that they are fighting to be treated with?

Treating the fucking struggle to live as a club to beat over minorities for rejecting racists and bigots. This is all a big fucking game to you, isn't it?

 

[Ponn]

Oh, it isn't solved. Just identified. Most white Americans voted for a white nationalist in Tuesday. Now some other white Americans are trying to explain to us why it's our fault that white Americans keep hitting us.

Lesson learned.

No, the people in this thread have been saying we would like the dems to learn why they didn't come out and vote for Hillary and what her campaign didn't touch on. You and others are saying no doubt, no question it was just plain racism. End of story. And by the way you are probably racist too just for trying to figure it out.

Ok. So what more is there to discuss then if that is the only answer you will accept if its "Fuck 'em they are just racist"?

 

[Lumination]

It's been proven that nothing fucking works.

It's been sixty years and "white moderates" are no more on our side than they were then.

Can you blame these people for not being on our side when they have their own families to worry about? It's a lose-lose situation for us all. Lashing out at them is salt on top of the wound for them and sabotaging our future for us.

And if nothing fucking works, why waste your time lashing out? Because petty internet revenge feels good? You're putting that over the rest of us minorities.

 

[Apathy]

Lol Trump didn't teach out to rural America. He fucking lied to them.

That's not reached pop tarts using them and their believes that ask their problems are other people's fault and that their jobs are coming back. The rust belt is dead. That's just the sad reality.

This is what apologist in the thread and the rust belt is going to find out in 4 years. Lying isn't caring about them. It's worse. You want to hear happy stories that end with "and everything was like it was before", read a kids story. The hard truth is that their way of living is dying and the jobs aren't coming back. Sometimes the truth hurts. If people are so petty or stupid to believe any different it's not up to the other people living in reality to coddle them.

 

[borghe]

Whats so amusing about the rust belt stuff, as a smug liberal looking down at their ignorance for a moment, is that in all reality, for many areas, their best bet for an improvement of quality of life from a jobs perspective would be to get on board with things like a green energy transition.

A major investment on a national scale to evolve our economy to more sustainable energy and become a manufacturing leader would likely spur all sorts of new industries and growth from them. All over the country.

100% agreed. Unfortunately the Dem energy platform is essentially nothing more than "oil and coal are bad mmkay". They have no plan to actually cultivate those rust belt (or farm) areas for green energy. It's the private sector that's just now figuring that out.

I feel for this thread. I do. It's no secret that there is blatant racism peppered throughout all of America including (and maybe especially) rural areas. I get the anger. I get the "if you're not fighting it you're condoning it". And it's taken me years to understand but yes I get my white privilege in it all and that it affects my empathy. But man... attacking all of or even just much of rural America over this seems... I don't know.. stereotyping at worst I guess.

I absolutely agree with those getting pissed for being asked to educate. Rape victims shouldn't have to educate men on why they shouldn't rape.

With that being said.. bitching about people not knowing where you come from and then basically saying you don't give a shit about where they come from because they don't care where you come from.. I don't even know where the hell the healing starts in that cycle... ugh.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

If a white man can't come to the table with some level of empathy for the plight of another human being and discuss, it's impossible for anything to happen. It is not the job for people of color to do this, they've already been fighting for scraps for decades just to reach someone's ear. It's by majority white people that will not do anything because none of this really affects them.

Some will often play the white guilt card too. People have become annoyed by that because it amounts to so little. So many say they are ashamed of their race but later do nothing about it to help educate other people of the plight of minorities and the best way to combat issues so that everyone can be safe and live a normal life. To have a discussion it takes at least two people, to deepen it, it needs more.

I relate personally to this in that I've tried speaking with my family about this issue, and I was genuinely looking to hear something that would help me convince them, and others I know, but all I got was those snide remarks, so thank you.

It's not easy to reason with them because they're so selfish to their own interests, but will be willing to make sacrifices for comparatively petty amendments. The worst part is that their own self-interests aren't even considerably large.

These are people who voted for Obama, though, so I know it's possible for these votes to turn blue, but so many people view this as black and white without considering the nuance. We can all agree these people are racist-sympathizers by association, and that's a real fucking shame, but we need to look beyond that

 

[wildfire]

This election should have been simple but the DNC and Clinton fucked up by going for a blowout instead of just focusing on key states. That arrogance has cost America decades worth of progressive policy progress.

For all the shit talk Trump deserves for his piss poor ground game his decision to campaign in many blue states was correct. I'm sure it helped squeeze out that edge of victory in Penn, Mich and Wisc.

 

[marrec]

Treating the fucking struggle to live as a club to beat over minorities for rejecting racists and bigots. This is all a big fucking game to you, isn't it?

The idea that minorities are somehow responsible for this or even going so far as to blame them for being disaffected by the entire process is really fucking low.

 

[Lumination]

This is what apologist in the thread and the rust belt is going to find out in 4 years. Lying isn't caring about them. It's worse. You want to hear happy stories that end with "and everything was like it was before", read a kids story. The hard truth is that their way of living is dying and the jobs aren't coming back. Sometimes the truth hurts. If people are so petty or stupid to believe any different it's not up to the other people living in reality to coddle them.

Please take a minute and reflect on what you just said. Especially the bolded. How can you expect anyone in that area to empathize with minorities if you can't do the same for them? It's an endless cycle. It has to stop somewhere or we can sit in civilian gridlock as the Republican politicians run off with our country.

 

[pigeon]

No, the people in this thread have been saying we would like the dems to learn why they didn't come out and vote for Hillary and what her campaign didn't touch on. You and others are saying no doubt, no question it was just plain racism. End of story. And by the way you are probably racist too just for trying to figure it out.

Ok. So what more is there to discuss then if that is the only answer you will accept if its "Fuck 'em they are just racist"?

I mean, it might be nice to have a discussion about why I believe that they are racist, so that I can convince you of the truth.

But it seems clear that the issue here isn't just that I am confident they are racist. The issue is that you're utterly confident they aren't and that nothing can convince you otherwise.

 

[Tuck]

Because they're not all racists. You can mock the #NotAll____ moniker all you want, but it's the truth.

• There are people in rural America legitimately left behind by technological advances and the new generation running off to the big cities. This doesn't make them racist.
• There are well-meaning religious folk that believe in the sanctity of life. This doesn't make them woman-haters.
• There are uninformed people who genuinely believe Hillary is as corrupt as they get. You can blame the media on this.

Labeling every Trump voter as such is doing to them exactly what racists actually do. You can support filibustering the Republican Congress. You can support protesting Trump's cabinet. Those people are irredeemable. But don't ignore the legitimate grievances of legitimate people. Especially do not paint them all with the broad brush that you yourself despise.

They are not all racists, that is correct.

But they ARE condoning racism, which is nearly as bad.

 

[Lowmelody]

Can you blame these people for not being on our side when they have their own families to worry about?

For being so absolutely fucking dumb to think for a second their own families would suffer if minorities were allowed to have the same life and chances they do? Yes those people can and should be blamed, shamed and mother fucking marginalized.

white guy from rural Kansas here - fuck every last trump supporter. Keeping minorities down so they can ride their backs to eventual oblivion.

 

[marrec]

Please take a minute and reflect on what you just said. Especially the bolded. How can you expect anyone in that area to empathize with minorities if you can't do the same for them? It's an endless cycle. It has to stop somewhere or we can sit in civilian gridlock as the Republican politicians run off with our country.

Luckily we can empathize with their economic and cultural plight while outright rejecting the racism and bigotry that permeates a lot of white rural traditional values.

 

[Frozenprince]

Please take a minute and reflect on what you just said. Especially the bolded. How can you expect anyone in that area to empathize with minorities if you can't do the same for them? It's an endless cycle. It has to stop somewhere or we can sit in civilian gridlock as the Republican politicians run off with our country.

I do empathize with their struggle, they're being marginalized economically, and it's hard and brutal.

But this is also a group that made vast amounts of money and built vast amounts of infrastructure on the backs of minorities that weren't even paid an honest wage. Industrial america as a power is dead. And instead of facing reality they ran to a bleating overt racist who sang a pretty song to them.

My empathy extends insofar as theirs did, when they voted for a liar who will actively make my and many others lives worse in order to drag out their death spiral just a little longer.

For all the comments in this thread stating that there needs to be a level of acceptance and education on our end, there needs to be mass acceptance on there end in turn. And that isn't happening. They refuse to accept that THEY need to change, not everything else needs to regress and stagnate so they don't have too.

 

[Frozenprince]

Basically, if minorities need to accept this fucked up paternalistic "lets all hold hands" kumbaya attitude, then those living in the rust belt need to accept that their way of life is gone and dead, like man ranchers and mid-western farmers did after the dust bowl.

And, for once, I'm not going to be the proactive party. I need to see some level of white moderate proactivity before I even begin to consider in kind.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Can you blame these people for not being on our side when they have their own families to worry about? It's a lose-lose situation for us all. Lashing out at them is salt on top of the wound for them and sabotaging our future for us.

And if nothing fucking works, why waste your time lashing out? Because petty internet revenge feels good? You're putting that over the rest of us minorities.

Are you seriously using the "think of the family of the bigots" argument right now?

 

[Jonm1010]

100% agreed. Unfortunately the Dem energy platform is essentially nothing more than "oil and coal are bad mmkay". They have no plan to actually cultivate those rust belt (or farm) areas for green energy. It's the private sector that's just now figuring that out.

I feel for this thread. I do. It's no secret that there is blatant racism peppered throughout all of America including (and maybe especially) rural areas. I get the anger. I get the "if you're not fighting it you're condoning it". And it's taken me years to understand but yes I get my white privilege in it all and that it affects my empathy. But man... attacking all of or even just much of rural America over this seems... I don't know.. stereotyping at worst I guess.

I absolutely agree with those getting pissed for being asked to educate. Rape victims shouldn't have to educate men on why they shouldn't rape.

With that being said.. bitching about people not knowing where you come from and then basically saying you don't give a shit about where they come from because they don't care where you come from.. I don't even know where the hell the healing starts in that cycle... ugh.

I agree that liberals have done a particularly poor job of organizing some of their platforms in a way that can maybe help these people, or at least engender some support.

On the racism front. I think its fine to deconstruct them. I personally think the opinion polls are right and most are racist to some not benign degree. I've lived in these types of places, the racism is real. I also think its a bit more complicated because humans are complicated and the poster who provided the contrasting electoral maps fuels that.

Personally I think this whole educate/not educate is a bit of a red herring(minorities don't need to educate though). As that same Obama map illustrates, there is no need to win over strong rust belt bigots to win large scale elections. Its a fools errand anyways. Clearly there are swing rust belt voters that have appeals they respond to, or a now hidden minority in these areas, that was present in 08 and 12, that went cold this year.

 

[faisal233]

I do empathize with their struggle, they're being marginalized economically, and it's hard and brutal.

But this is also a group that made vast amounts of money and built vast amounts of infrastructure on the backs of minorities that weren't even paid an honest wage. Industrial america as a power is dead. And instead of facing reality they ran to a bleating overt racist who sang a pretty song to them.

My empathy extends insofar as theirs did, when they voted for a liar who will actively make my and many others lives worse in order to drag out their death spiral just a little longer.

For all the comments in this thread stating that there needs to be a level of acceptance and education on our end, there needs to be mass acceptance on there end in turn. And that isn't happening. They refuse to accept that THEY need to change, not everything else needs to regress and stagnate so they don't have too.

You need to be right more than you want real progress.

We didn't need to coddle racists. We just had to get our rustbelt base to show up by recalibrating our message to also address their concerns. They didn't show up, our firewall broke. Clinton's data driven campaign and world class GOTV was a joke.

 

[Ponn]

I mean, it might be nice to have a discussion about why I believe that they are racist, so that I can convince you of the truth.

But it seems clear that the issue here isn't just that I am confident they are racist. The issue is that you're utterly confident they aren't and that nothing can convince you otherwise.

I have stated repeatedly that a good portion of them are racist so don't pin that on me. I have very clearly said I want to have a conversation and have articulated my thoughts so I'm listening, go ahead.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

We need to make a movie called The Color Trap that puts white people into a POC shoes.

There's no other way, some people are so stubborn they literally will never admit that there is a large segment of racist xenophobic or whatever people that voted for Trump and how disheartening and dangerous that is for us moving forward.

 

[Frozenprince]

You need to be right more than you want real progress.

We didn't need to coddle racists. We just had to get our rustbelt base to show up by recalibrating our message to also address their concerns. They didn't show up, our firewall broke. Clinton's data driven campaign and world class GOTV was a joke.

I would love nothing more than for America to prove me wrong and show me it's truly a progressivist state which grows more inclusive by the day.

Literally nothing would make me happier.

Especially as a parent.

That doesn't mean I need to empathize with those that don't empathize with me in turn. That's absurd.

 

[Jonm1010]

Are you seriously using the "think of the family of the bigots" argument right now?

Come on now, you know what he was saying.

I would love nothing more than for America to prove me wrong and show me it's truly a progressivist state which grows more inclusive by the day.

Literally nothing would make me happier.

Especially as a parent.

That doesn't mean I need to empathize with those that don't empathize with me in turn. That's absurd.

There is a ton of value in empathy. Politics is built on it.

I think sympathy is the word you are looking for. And I agree, there is no need to sympathize with people that are actively advocating or condoning polices they know will harm minorities.

His point though wasn't even empathy though, it was advocating countering by driving enthusiasm up from your own wing.

I do sympathize with the disillusionment though. It's well earned.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

We need to make a movie called The Color Trap that puts white people into a POC shoes.

There's no other way, some people are so stubborn they literally will never admit that there is a large segment of racist xenophobic or whatever people that voted for Trump and how disheartening and dangerous that is for us moving forward.

It is probably out-of-date now, but I read a really great book back in the day where a white guy took pills over a prolonged period of time to darken his skin enough to convince people he was black. Then went into the south and hung out for a while. Had a great book about it.

 

[Lumination]

I mean, it might be nice to have a discussion about why I believe that they are racist, so that I can convince you of the truth.

But it seems clear that the issue here isn't just that I am confident they are racist. The issue is that you're utterly confident they aren't and that nothing can convince you otherwise.

Hillary lost a few swing states by a few hundred thousand votes. You're going to prove that all Trump voters, down to that last little margin are all racist? I wouldn't make that bet if I had all the disposable income in the world.

They are not all racists, that is correct.

But they ARE condoning racism, which is nearly as bad.

Given the ugly choice between personal survival and denouncing racism, they chose personal survival. I will not hesitate to say I would've done the same. I know most of you would too.

Remember, Trump was willing to feed them lies about bringing back manufacturing jobs while Hillary was championing green energy, which would mean closing more mines. They didn't get to choose to survive AND denounce racism. That's what Obama offered, not what these candidates offered.

For being so absolutely fucking dumb to think for a second their own families would suffer if minorities were allowed to have the same life and chances they do? Yes those people can and should be blamed, shamed and mother fucking marginalized.

white guy from rural Kansas here - fuck every last trump supporter. Keeping minorities down so they can ride their backs to eventual oblivion.

You've misrepresented their choice. This isn't about keeping the minorities down for personal gain. These people had to choose between their own livelihood that Trump promised (read: lied) them or supporting civil liberties of people so far removed from themselves. Of course they would choose themselves. Anyone would.

You live in rural Kansas. You've no doubt met some really irredeemable racists. You have extremely legitimate reasons to feel the way you do. That doesn't mean we should throw all Trump voters into the same bucket and then burn it all down.

 

[Frozenprince]

I agree that liberals have done a particularly poor job of organizing some of their platforms in a way that can maybe help these people, or at least engender some support.

On the racism front. I think its fine to deconstruct them. I personally think the opinion polls are right and most are racist to some not benign degree. I've lived in these types of places, the racism is real. I also think its a bit more complicated because humans are complicated and the poster who provided the contrasting electoral maps fuels that.

Personally I think this whole educate/not educate is a bit of a red herring(minorities don't need to educate though). As that same Obama map illustrates, there is no need to win over strong rust belt bigots to win large scale elections. Its a fools errand anyways. Clearly there are swing rust belt voters that have appeals they respond to, or a now hidden minority in these areas, that was present in 08 and 12, that went cold this year.

That's the thing, the rust belt turning out like this was an unprecedented coup that spoke more to Trump being able to manipulate them than not.

Democrats need to focus more on turning states in key areas like North Carolina, making more inroads in New Hampshire, getting a larger foothold in Wisconsin.

The rust belt is a demographic that will be less and less meaningful by the election cycle.

 

[borghe]

Basically, if minorities need to accept this fucked up paternalistic "lets all hold hands" kumbaya attitude, then those living in the rust belt need to accept that their way of life is gone and dead, like man ranchers and mid-western farmers did after the dust bowl.

And, for once, I'm not going to be the proactive party. I need to see some level of white moderate proactivity before I even begin to consider in kind.

Eh, this is on point. The bare truth is that desegregation never made it much out of the cities for the most part let alone rural America is molasses slow on progress. Interestingly the conversation a few posts back about bringing clean energy jobs to the rust belt could help both. Get people employed and attract a minority population looking for work thus desegregating over time by default.

I think a big issue is that these towns fucking suck... and virtually no minority in their right mind would move out there as is. Open up clean energy or some other sort of jobs, attract workers, and one would think almost inevitably a portion of those new workers/neighbors would be minority.

???

That's the thing, the rust belt turning out like this was an unprecedented coup that spoke more to Trump being able to manipulate them than not.

Democrats need to focus more on turning states in key areas like North Carolina, making more inroads in New Hampshire, getting a larger foothold in Wisconsin.

The rust belt is a demographic that will be less and less meaningful by the election cycle.

1. The rust belt turn out was status quo. Don't delude yourself. The shock wasn't their turnout but how their importance was marginalized in the polls. How long has that been the case for?

2. The math of white vote shows that it's already tipped BUT it will still be decades before it loses major significance.

 

[Vestal]

I would love nothing more than for America to prove me wrong and show me it's truly a progressivist state which grows more inclusive by the day.

Literally nothing would make me happier.

Especially as a parent.

That doesn't mean I need to empathize with those that don't empathize with me in turn. That's absurd.

www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic

 

[Banana Aeon]

Yeah, we can lie to the rust belt. Tell them they have jobs that don't exist anymore. Are we really helping them?

 

[jdstorm]

Have you had to live your entire life with your family telling you "you have to never step out of line. You have to be good. You can pass, but your bother isn't so lucky, you need to be strong and smart for him. Don't go out after dark. Don't let your hair out. Don't grow facial hair they could profile you."? And that's just surface level stuff.

Yes i have. I get racially profiled every time i go to the airport. I was almost arrested for walking home after exercising. The only reason i wasnt taken to a police station for questioning was because of a lucky coincidence.

Spoiler

chance would have it that i had played on the same sporting team as one of the cops in HS about 5 years earlier and they recognised me.

ive spent my whole life pulling my family together while being criticised and belittled for it. Being there for them in a way that they have never been able to be for me.

I was once told that a grandparent might literally die of a heart attack if i didnt get a hair cut before seeing them. Every single person has faced things most could never possibly imagine.

No. It's not my, nor other minorities responsibility to educate those that don't give a shit about us until we beat it into their heads. That's nonsense.

Its Our Responsibility to as humans who care about inclusion and respect to model that behavior. That includes respecting all people. Especially hateful assholes. Progress is always going to have a cost and unfortunately its on those that will benefit from it to pay.

Its easy to get bitter about this shit. Especially if you have been hurt. However that isnt going to make it better for the next kid going through the same bullshit. So there seems to be three options. Violence, Apathy/acceptance of the status quo, or taking some personal responsibility and building the world you wish to see at personal cost to yourself.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I do empathize with their struggle, they're being marginalized economically, and it's hard and brutal.

But this is also a group that made vast amounts of money and built vast amounts of infrastructure on the backs of minorities that weren't even paid an honest wage. Industrial america as a power is dead. And instead of facing reality they ran to a bleating overt racist who sang a pretty song to them.

My empathy extends insofar as theirs did, when they voted for a liar who will actively make my and many others lives worse in order to drag out their death spiral just a little longer.

For all the comments in this thread stating that there needs to be a level of acceptance and education on our end, there needs to be mass acceptance on there end in turn. And that isn't happening. They refuse to accept that THEY need to change, not everything else needs to regress and stagnate so they don't have too.

Because we are better and bigger, so is our responsibility. Our ideals are noble, theirs are not and we will kill with love. when they threaten with rigged voting fraud and we have to fear violence progressive values is that we treat others better and see them poison themselves.
It's always been liberals plight that they are not in it for hate, low blows or hurting others or bystanders. It is almost always the insane conservatives who kill the liberals who preach unity and love.

It's asking the impossible, but we must not become a deformed version of them. We'd become everything we hate about the right-wing. the same justification and lack of introspection.



If we are better we have to set a better example. How can be true to our liberal ideals and win? Either we reduce ourselves to their level and go to war. become stormfront of the left- doxing, internet mobs, threats, hatred, or we remain strong.
It's when we are defeated and angry we risk losing ourselves and mimicking the right. Regardless of whose responsibility it is to change the people who have the wrong opinion, or who are low information voters, how do you win? How do you win the war?

Make me understand the path for victory. Sell to me, how we continue as we've had in this election and win.

 

[joshcryer]

That's the thing, the rust belt turning out like this was an unprecedented coup that spoke more to Trump being able to manipulate them than not.

Democrats need to focus more on turning states in key areas like North Carolina, making more inroads in New Hampshire, getting a larger foothold in Wisconsin.

The rust belt is a demographic that will be less and less meaningful by the election cycle.

This will be all rendered moot when the right wing populism fails to deliver. The good thing is that there won't be any excuses. We may have needed Trump to get ourselves a true wave election in 2020.

 

[Pinko Marx]

We need to make a movie called The Color Trap that puts white people into a POC shoes.

There's no other way, some people are so stubborn they literally will never admit that there is a large segment of racist xenophobic or whatever people that voted for Trump and how disheartening and dangerous that is for us moving forward.

There's a movie called White Man's Burden starting John Travolta that's just about this very thing

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Yeah, we can lie to the rust belt. Tell them they have jobs that don't exist anymore. Are we really helping them?

Hey, "education" is education.

 

[Lumination]

I do empathize with their struggle, they're being marginalized economically, and it's hard and brutal.

But this is also a group that made vast amounts of money and built vast amounts of infrastructure on the backs of minorities that weren't even paid an honest wage. Industrial america as a power is dead. And instead of facing reality they ran to a bleating overt racist who sang a pretty song to them.

My empathy extends insofar as theirs did, when they voted for a liar who will actively make my and many others lives worse in order to drag out their death spiral just a little longer.

For all the comments in this thread stating that there needs to be a level of acceptance and education on our end, there needs to be mass acceptance on there end in turn. And that isn't happening. They refuse to accept that THEY need to change, not everything else needs to regress and stagnate so they don't have too.

I agree with you. It can't be all one-sided. Unfortunately, someone has to be the bigger person here and since civilian gridlock benefits Republicans, this falls onto our shoulders. It sucks, but that's reality. One that Republican politicians, not these citizens, created.

But FWIW, I think the post you made here and the one after is from a much more reasonable place than the ones I responded to. I relate to your anger and frustration, but I hope you don't let your emotions get the best of you.

Are you seriously using the "think of the family of the bigots" argument right now?

You've missed the entire point of your own goddamn thread.

 

[capitalCORN]

Because we are better and bigger, so is our responsibility. Our ideals are noble, theirs are not and we will kill with love. when they threaten with rigged voting fraud and we have to fear violence progressive values is that we treat others better and see them poison themselves.
It's always been liberals plight that they are not in it for hate, low blows or hurting others or bystanders. It is almost always the insane conservatives who kill the liberals who preach unity and love.

It's asking the impossible, but we must not become a deformed version of them. We'd become everything we hate about the right-wing. the same justification and lack of introspection.



If we are better we have to set a better example. How can be true to our liberal ideals and win? Either we reduce ourselves to their level and go to war. become stormfront of the left- doxing, internet mobs, threats, hatred, or we remain strong.
It's when we are defeated and angry we risk losing ourselves and mimicking the right. Regardless of whose responsibility it is to change the people who have the wrong opinion, or who are low information voters, how do you win? How do you win the war?

Make me understand the path for victory. Sell to me, how we continue as we've had in this election and win.

Our morals and values are a weakness to them. We will never change this fact. This is what the narrative is. The left is the ideology of the many, the right is the ideology of might. How do you think we should reconcile the inbetween?

 

[Apathy]

Please take a minute and reflect on what you just said. Especially the bolded. How can you expect anyone in that area to empathize with minorities if you can't do the same for them? It's an endless cycle. It has to stop somewhere or we can sit in civilian gridlock as the Republican politicians run off with our country.

Please, I've given enough empathy for a lifetime to rural america, thinking they could at some point not disappoint. They have economical and education and time advantages over minorities that they squandered. Their way of living has been going down steadily, it wasn't "wake up one morning and it was gone" yet people chose to continue down the path instead of looking for new avenues.

My family is from central america, where rural life and life in the rust belt, no matter how bad you think it is, is like living like kings for us. Coming from third world hell holes, with little to no money, my family moved from even more rural living than these people could ever imagine and went to the US to get prosperity. They went to big cities where they didn't know the language, didn't have an education and built themselves up to get the middle class dreams that the rural belt forefathers told them.

Having no advantages and making it vs being actually born in the states, having opportunities up the ass because their skin isn't a shade too dark or they don't speak the language with a funny accent or their name isn't funny sounding or hard to pronounce and yet still holding out for these opportunities that can't come back simply by the nature of basic economy.

Theres only so many fucks any one can give. I stand by what I said, and 4 years from now, when they are worse off than right now, I'll say the same thing. To believe the blatant lies from a demagogue simply because your way of life is dying and you chose to not change but want to stick it out and hope he can bring back your old way of life because you can't adapt or chose not to, and in turn end up hurting other people because of the shit your vote is going to bring about, that's all kinds of stupid.