alright that's a fair assessment, sorry for the misunderstanding then.
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Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
- Thread starter chubigans
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alright that's a fair assessment, sorry for the misunderstanding then.
Red Wedding - Part 2
I blame establishment Dems for this bloody massacre. Their centrist, corporatist, Neo-liberalist policies - their loyalty to Goldman Sacs over ordinary people, their push for TPP/TTIP, their HUBRIS - all contributed to this.
Time to purge the DNC. Time to build a true progressive movement.
Okay, maps by county are utterly pointless. They always show mass red. Go look at previous years.
Secondly, democrats lost because moderate white democrats in three swing states didn't turn up. Explain to me how a far left candidate attracts moderate white democrats.
PdotMichael
Banned
The problem is that you can't give Clinton some aggressive and powerful slogan, she is the wrong person for that.
Damn, going back and watching speeches and came across this one. Listening to this, you can't tell me that Bernie hit the EXACT points he needed to hit. The response he got was telling. You can't watch that and tell me he wouldn't have won. Bernie is FAR from blame. He tried to warn the DNC and no one would listen. Everyone ignored the response he got.
Audioboxer
Member
It doesn't need to be aggressive, but just something the American people feel is about them as well. I'm with her is solely about Hillary. Heck things like Hope and Make America Great Again have zero to do with the runner. They have nothing to do with gender either.
Arguing about slogans is just a tiny part of the overall failure of the campaign though.
at least now we have proof that Hawaii is the only truly liberal state. Deep inside, I always knew
He actually quite right for a democrat. He also didn't seem to have a positive message, like at all. I don't think after watching his petulant debate performance he has the stuff to win. Nor do I think he's the kind of guy who should help craft the future.
All that being said it is interesting to consider how he could be uniquely capable against Trump.
Anything he does that is of actual benefit can be folded in assuming it isn't mired in prejudice. I'm never of the mind that revenge on voters is of practical or moral benefit. Especially when those voters have just recently turned on you in large part because of the strategic mistakes of an individual campaign instead of some sort of policy realignment.
Sinfamy
Member
A far left candidate who isn't corrupted and bought by corporations, and is against exporting jobs, wants universal healthcare and free college for your children sounds like a good deal, instead of promising the status quo or even worse.
StrategyFan
Member
you're assuming that the DNC was even attempting to pick the most solid candidate
their criteria didn't seem to extend beyond "it's hillary's turn now"
SolidSnakex
Member
You should make sure to point out that quote is from 2013. That's how early shit was locked in for Hillary the DNC.
You could emphasize her experience and on Obama. Something simple like "Forward!" or "Forward America", both as showing that she is forward on issues and on telling people that the direction to go is ahead.
D.Lo
Member
Fair enough on the sentiment. Slogan is a tiny detail but has some of the issues they had embedded in it. But we need to analyse what was bad to do better next time, and the worry is that they can make the same mistakes again. Like what if they run Kaine next time with 'Be with Kaine'.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
By having a message to vote for, is a start. Besides, they're still Democrats.
This too:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-sanders-does-better-with-independents/
Mammoth Jones
Member
Pretty sure middle America's mind was made up before that.
Maintenance
Member
I'm pretty sure there are many in that thread where Sanders used the word ghetto.
So firstly, evidence please.
Secondly, we aren't talking about current threads then? Because that's what the poster was saying.
This is who I blame:
They were playing for a blow out while ignoring the Blue firewall:
Time to purge the Clinton machine from the Democratic Party:
Let's face facts. Hillary and Shultz and anyone who was involved in helping to push candidates out of the Dem primary and to restrict debates and to try to fix a Hillary Dem nomination with a full and thorough primary process has a high amount of responsibility for the results of this election.
Regardless of who won the popular vote.
Many good democrat candidates would not have lost to such a flawed candidate of Trump, they would have delivered the senate and turned the Supreme Court blue probably for decades. Instead we get the demagogue, and a huge step backwards for all the progress we've made in the last eight years.
They were playing for a blow out while ignoring the Blue firewall:
Time to purge the Clinton machine from the Democratic Party:
Let's face facts. Hillary and Shultz and anyone who was involved in helping to push candidates out of the Dem primary and to restrict debates and to try to fix a Hillary Dem nomination with a full and thorough primary process has a high amount of responsibility for the results of this election.
Regardless of who won the popular vote.
Many good democrat candidates would not have lost to such a flawed candidate of Trump, they would have delivered the senate and turned the Supreme Court blue probably for decades. Instead we get the demagogue, and a huge step backwards for all the progress we've made in the last eight years.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Good point.
The wordplay this election season was freakin' insane. For example:
#strongertogether because Hillary needs a Kaine (cane) to walk. Can't make this shit up. I have to wonder how big of an effect it had.
I think your intuition towards unity is sound. But I think you are mistaken on a reasonable timeline for reconciliation. The election quite literally just happened. The stages of grief are in effect.
The devil had such an incoherent campaign that organizing a pointed resistance is difficult. And I think that while uncertainty is a curse for readiness, it offers the blessing of a little time to analyze the mistakes made before we have to fight him every step of the way.
Being uncomfortable with some rethinking of a failed party is essential to not just repeating the mistakes that have increasingly resulted in bad outcomes..
Rebuilding at the state level needs to be a major focus.
teruterubozu
Member
More like the Democrat's Bob Dole. She's done. Romney still has appeal.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
They're not moderates and Sanders isn't far left. You seem to think we're still in the '90s/early 2000s. People see the established parties of both the left and right as having failed. They're not interested in your positioning on the left-right axis; they deny the legitimacy of the entire axis and think they're all sellouts. They're not 'moderate' voters at all. Most of them hold collections of beliefs you'd think were pretty extreme. They're 'anti-system' voters. Sanders was anti-system.
He was significantly to the right of Hillary and Bernie, and normally would have languished among the also-rans in the non-televised GOP primaries debating rockstars like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum.
The Millenials were never her base.
teruterubozu
Member
Yup she had zero youth enthusiasm. Which I think is the real story of the election.
Because democrats wanted her to be their nominee.
That's nothing to do with the DNC. The sheer fact is, a large majority of democratic primary voters wanted Hillary Clinton. That was always going to be the case - particularly amongst people who supported Obama in 2008, but wanted her. She (was) popular amongst democrats, particularly the core voting blocks of the democratic party - black women, for example.
People didn't run not because they thought the DNC was going to stop them, but because they knew she had sky high favourability ratings and a huge amount of support from people who wanted to vote for her.
I do agree with you to some extent, I just don't think that Sanders gets those voters who went for Trump in those three states. I do think he might have gotten more white vote out that stayed at home though.
(However, as we did back in the primary, I also worry a lot about the minority vote and whether they would have come out - and I still doubt they do. If you increase your white vote and the cost of the black vote, then not only do you not win you make the party a damn site worse than it is by excluding black peoples votes)
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I stopped short of predicting a Trump victory because I thought the odds were somewhat low, but I've been extremely wary of Hillary's toxic image, political apathy, liberal smugness, democratic complacency, America's deeply hidden racism and the party's utter failure to do anything else but preaching to the choir while the GOP was closing its ranks around American's prophet of neofascism. All of that rests on Clinton's campaing. Racists didn't win the election; she handed them the victory.
Time and time again I've been told here and in other places that America wouldn't allow Trump a victory and that I was diablos'ing hard. I'm sure those people didn't mean ill, but look where we are now.
I'm also particularly enraged by how cheery were Hillary supporters during the whole deplorable incident. That was a complete PR cock-up. It galvanized Trump's camp, bothered undecideds and made Hillary look like a vehemently divisive candidate.
entremet
Member
Well post primaries lol.
Many MSM think pieces were saying Millennials were gonna hand her the election due to their inclusiveness and tolerance.
I guess not!
With the exception of a few neogaf members millennials were never her base.
Her base was supposed to be working class women, people of color, and Latinos.
All of which she did worse with than Obama in 2012.
Hell had Obama ran he would have won. The DNC backed a flawed candidate because to them it was more important that this woman won instead of running a candidate that could protect rights for women.
D.Lo
Member
19% for Clinton, 51% for Obama in 2008.
entremet
Member
It kinda palpable online. Outside of here, I never saw any big support in engaged online communities for her.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think he would. I laid out my thesis here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=224068728&postcount=756
As someone who lives in one of those states, and who sat through packed houses every time he arrived, he totally would have won in Michigan. I'm white and I talk to my parents and their friends. Originally they were gonna skip out of voting because they hated both Trump and Clinton, then I told them to look up Bernie Sanders. They voted in the primary, which gave Bernie Sanders a significant win here.
I spoke with my parents last night. They stayed home for the first time since they were able to vote back in the late 60s. Sanders inspired working class people here of all races. Hillary called half of us deplorables.
And that half showed up in the voting booth.
teruterubozu
Member
Yup, I agree. But overall Hillary and her supporters ran a terribly ostracizing campaign: 3rd party voters were stupid, Bernie supporters were delusional and the rest were, well...deplorable. For a nationwide campaign, it did not emit a very inclusive atmosphere, of course not that Trump's did either, but it was a shameful level for Democrats.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly, I am just deeply unconvinced that Sanders would have done much worse than Clinton among minorities, simply because, well, Clinton did *terribly* among minorities in the general. There's only so much lower you can go. Even if he did go lower, none of the closest three Democratic states Clinton won would have been lost with 10% lower minority vote. Only of the three closest Republican states Clinton lost would have been won with 10% higher minority turnout (Michigan).
I think you need to face the blunt reality of the situation: white people are ~73% of the American electorate. Being a party predicated on minority support that has nothing to say to anyone who is neither a minority nor a white person who can be motivated to vote solely by minority plight is a one way ticket to a presidential loss.
If Sanders had lost 10% of Clinton's minority turnout but gained 5% of Clinton's white turnout, he would be President right now. That's just the maths of the situation. Now, you can argue about how plausible that picture is of Sanders, and knowing the both of us as posters, we probably will, but I think a more general message is just that minority votes are at best the icing on the cake. Obama's coalition of millennials and black people hid the fact that he actually did really damn well with cranky old white guys too; and that fact has been dangerously overlooked.
For whom? There is no living GOP president with any remaining cache, much less GOP also-rans. This election obliterated Romney's influence among the GOP more so than HRC's among the Dems. She is still going to be speaking at her 2020 party convention; Romney, almost certainly, will not.
teruterubozu
Member
They'll give her 5 seconds if she really is going up there. She's like a bad nightmare now. Oh GOD, I hope she has NOTHING to do with the 2020 DNC.
Republicans were pushing Romney to enter the race after it was clear Trump was going to be the nominee.
To be honest, I think even he would have beaten Hillary just based on the fact that he actually visited the midwest when he ran.
Maintenance
Member
That was her "47 percent moment" and people cheered her for it.
DR2K
Banned
No, just lazy. Like half this country. Didn't get enough motivation to go to the polls on election night. Oh well.
entremet
Member
He not running for President again. But still can used in PR and such.
HRC is basically gonna be shunned at this point. Mostly because she lost to Donald Trump. That's the ultimate embarrassment.
paragonpro
Banned
The democratic party needs to be restructured. They are almost as responsible for trump as those who voted for him,and they need to own that shit.
I think people need to take a step back right now and think about what they are writing and how that comes across to people who are really fucking scared because of this election.
I know you don't mean it, but between the people wanting to disenfranchise the south, and the people deciding that black votes don't matter as long as you get working class whites, and "economic anxiety", this is not a healthy conversation right now.
To be fair the primary system fucked a lot of them out of the polls. On top of it you had the DNC actively trying to sabotage Clinton's opponents.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
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