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[zeemumu]

Are they racist because they're too stubborn to accept anything else or are they racist because they just don't know?


If it's the 2nd one then you can probably talk them out of the racism. If it's the first then there really isn't much that you can do.

 

[Noirulus]

If their reasons aren't due to bigotry that's almost worse because it shows that they lack critical thinking in addition to being unfazed by bigotry.

Just because somebody shares genetic material with you doesn't mean their opinions are sacred

These are the people that raised you, grew together with you, helped you, care about you, etc. If that doesn't mean anything to you, then you and I have very different values as human beings so there's no point in arguing any further.

Also who said their opinions are sacred? I'm arguing for the opposite, that their opinions aren't sacred. Their opinions are just opinions, and you don't have to respect their opinions but you can still respect and care for them as a person.

 

[tbm24]

My brother and sister in law didn't vote. They don't support trump but are going on with the let's wait and see and o well let's wait for 2020 bullshit. Bearing in mind that they are white and I am not, I took this pretty personally because our voting location was a literal 2 blocks away from them. I also learned during a heated discussion involving them and my wife that my brother in laws father voted for trump which made me realize why they're so deadest on not accepting that a vote for Trump = accepting his hate filled campaign for the sake of yourself. I will not backdown on washing away with the only rhetoric Trump had which boiled down to XYZ is *insert minorities/or country* fault. So it's put me in a pretty shit situation but I'm not budging on it. I think it's tragic that it's even up for discussion.

 

[UncleSporky]

Are they racist because they're too stubborn to accept anything else or are they racist because they just don't know?


If it's the 2nd one then you can probably talk them out of the racism. If it's the first then there really isn't much that you can do.

And in the case of family...even if it's the former, it could also be the case that they love you just as stubbornly in spite of everything else (particularly in the case of older family members, who are more likely to be stubborn in this sense). Honestly, an ultimatum might be enough to snap someone out of the complacency of their beliefs. "Do you really hate them so much that you'd allow it to interfere with the love we share as a family?"

In all likelihood, 'those people' probably aren't even a part of their lives, or they'd have some necessary perspective. On the other hand, you are a part of their lives. Seems an easy choice, from their perspective.

 

[transformer]

If your friends and/or family members are truly racists/bigots/etc. then you can try to confront them about it and perhaps enlighten them. Point out how their specific actions are harmful to others. Make examples/counterpoints to try and explain your observations and how their actions and/or words were harmful. You would be surprised how reasonable people can be. They will be especially willing to hear this from you as a friend or family member. I would strongly advocate that prior to dropping them.

If your friends and/or family members simply didn't vote for Hillary and haven't actively been racists/bigots/etc. prior to this election, then they aren't racists/bigots/etc. They did not fill out a bubble on a piece of paper or push a button on a voting machine and magically turn into racists/bigots/etc. from this action. Give it time and you will understand this. Do not drop them. You might lose them forever and regret it later once you realize this.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

These are the people that raised you, grew together with you, helped you, care about you, etc. If that doesn't mean anything to you, then you and I have very different values as human beings so there's no point in arguing any further.

Also who said their opinions are sacred? I'm arguing for the opposite, that their opinions aren't sacred. Their opinions are just opinions, and you don't have to respect their opinions but you can still respect and care for them as a person.

If I found out my mother was bigoted I'd try to talk some sense into her, and if she couldn't be reached we wouldn't talk anymore.

Like I said before, none of my family is bigoted so I don't really know what it's like to have that poison in your midst

 

[Kisaya]

I'm sorry to hear. How have they reacted in the aftermath if I may ask? If it's too personal I totally understand not sharing.

They've basically disowned me, my dad and siblings don't care for me anymore. Occasionally my mom will reach out, but not in a way to reconcile, which ends up escalating our damaged relationship further.

I talked to my mom for the first time in two years and she continued to insult me and my boyfriend with racist and homophobic terms. After that conversation I'm perfectly fine and no longer guilty of separating myself from her.

 

[TAJ]

All I can say is that there are about to be a ton of awkward Thanksgivings around America in 10 days.

I'm not going. I didn't even try to make an excuse. I just said "I don't want to be there." and left it at that.

 

[Slo]

They've basically disowned me, my dad and siblings don't care for me anymore. Occasionally my mom will reach out, but not in a way to reconcile, which ends up escalating our damaged relationship further.

I talked to my mom for the first time in two years and she continued to insult me and my boyfriend with racist and homophobic terms. After that conversation I'm perfectly fine and no longer guilty of separating myself from her.

That's horrible. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I don't really talk to anyone in my family much anymore. I'm originally from Georgia, and even tho a lot of my immediate family has moved to other, often more liberal states, they all still hang onto the same racist attitudes and ideas. My mother is the only immediate family I have that isn't racist, but I cut ties with her for different reasons, so it's pretty much just me, my wife, and my son on holidays now.

I don't mind it at all.

 

[Lime]

Thanks for the response, Massive Duck. What one is comfortable with is probably a good rule of thumb to follow when it comes to how much I'm willing to engage/cut off people.

They've basically disowned me, my dad and siblings don't care for me anymore. Occasionally my mom will reach out, but not in a way to reconcile, which ends up escalating our damaged relationship further.

I talked to my mom for the first time in two years and she continued to insult me and my boyfriend with racist and homophobic terms. After that conversation I'm perfectly fine and no longer guilty of separating myself from her.

Fuck, I'm so sorry to hear. What horrible people who don't even deserve the time of day. But I'm glad things are better now at least.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

It's hard man. I'm not white but almost everyone in my family is a hardcore Catholic and they have very extreme beliefs about certain groups of people. I've tried talking to them about these issues before but they're old and stubborn, they just ignore me.

Damn, can't believe how many people here cut out their families. I don't think I could ever do that, flaws and all.

 

[Ogodei]

Unless they're actually an activist for conservative causes, or are a conservative politician, it's not worth giving them grief over it.

 

[echoshifting]

I've been looking for the right thread to post this story, and this seems like a good fit.

I have a cousin who is half white, half Hispanic. She has two children, one who is about 9, and one who was just born a couple of months ago, with a man who is an African immigrant (I know that's broad but I'm trying not to be too specific about any of this). They live together and love each other very much, but have never gotten married. He's an awesome guy, a terrific partner for her and an awesome dad. He does not have citizenship and is therefore vulnerable to deportation.

Her mom and two of her three aunts are hardcore right wing and unabashed Trump supporters. This led to a huge blowup in that part of our family that kind of sucked everybody in. In the end she was not speaking to her mom or those aunts. Neither was I.

Then the baby was born, very prematurely, with a heart attack-inducing chance of mortality. It was terrifying for everyone. We really weren't sure the baby was going to make it and nobody could offer my cousin or her partner any reassurances. It was day to day for a month. Immediately, that part of the family swooped in and supported them every way they could. They resolved their differences and came together, making sure my cousin, her partner and their child all got fed, taking care of their older child when they both needed to be in the NICU, spending so much time with them and doing every little thing they needed done. They were gracious, humble, and kind. This healed the rift in our family. It felt like family mattered more than anything and that we could rise above all of this.

Then Trump was elected, and my cousin was just crushed. And of course she had her mom and two of her aunts and their families celebrating his victory. Her mom is cheering for the guy who wants to deport the father of her grandchildren. And they are BIG on the deportation thing, too. It's not like they don't think he will do it. They want him to do it.

My cousin is handling this by strongly forbidding all talk of politics around her and her family...in person, text, facebook, etc., regardless of who you support. She says she can deal with them as long as they stop talking about this stuff. And I want to respect her wishes, but I don't agree. I've stopped speaking to them again since the election, and I don't even know how to start up again. But man. She is in such an awful spot. I don't know what I would do if I were her. I go down there every two or three years for Thanksgiving and I am so fucking thankful this is an "off" year or I'd have made a thread about whether or not I should go.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I don't tolerate intolerance and I don't condone bigotry.

Fortunately I haven't been put into this position yet, but I wouldn't associate myself with anyone who had these types of viewpoints.

 

[GatorBait]

My parents are in the top income tax bracket. From what I can tell, a significant reason they voted for Trump was so that their taxes wouldn't go up. I'm starting to feel like that is one of the most abhorrent reasons to vote for him. I could at least understand and empathize if they were say blue-collar workers or pro-life single-issue voters. They even went to a Trump rally and seemed to revel in being called "deplorables."

I've been sort of generally disgusted by them over the past couple months, but the weekend before and week of the election, I haven't even had the stomach to speak to them much. I feel pretty disappointed and disillusioned with the fact that acted like such shitty people from a position of such privilege and success.

 

[Kill3r7]

I cannot fathom a scenario where I would ever abandon my family or close friends. They are the people who have always been there for me during the good days and the bad ones. They have shaped my life and person. I would much rather stick around and fight the good fight, debating and educating rather than excluding them from my life. Thankfully I have not had to deal with this issue for the most part.

 

[Nepenthe]

Thanks Nepenthe for the input and your experience. What would you advise to those who are not affected by the bigotry spewed by friends? I.e. as the above article is suggesting, is it high time for white people to do ugly work and reach those with abhorrent beliefs (or perhaps convince the apathetic or moderates)?

It's been time for white people to speak out against bigotry. If nothing else, this election proves what happens when good people stand aside and allow evil to waltz on into the White House. People empathize with those in closest proximity to them, and white people are on average going to be closest to white people. Challenging bigoted views in the home is one way to at least get the gears in one's head turning, assuming their opening to listening.

Granted, I'm more of a pragmatist. I'm exhausted of the idea of enlightenment and education because it's been over half a millenia and we've not gotten anywhere close to smashing bigotry into dust. People are suffering every minute that someone is having a talk with ol' Grandpappy about why slavery wasn't a good thing for black people. I want results regardless of whether or not everyone is on board the ship already. Ergo, I would rather people protest, call their senators and hit up town hall meetings, and VOTE (yes, even if you don't want to have a beer with the candidate in question) to institute legal protections, recognition, and exceptions for minorities in the meantime. I feel governmental precedents inspire change quicker than cultural and educational shifts do. As I said before, slaves weren't freed because white people ever got around to liking us. We were freed because a President signed a document saying so. Thus, I want more documents signed and more laws instituted in the meantime.

 

[fester]

Just take comfort in the fact that when Trump screws up and doesnt fullfill his promises you can say I told you so and rub it in. It is petty but maybe next time they will listen to you so when Trump 2.0 comes along hopefully they think twice. I done this with all my friends that voted Brexit but now realise the effects of the weaker pound.

It's cold comfort knowing that Trump's fuckups are just going to bring down the entire country (if not other countries, too.)

 

[Evening Musuko]

Intellectually, I feel like there's nothing to be gained by cutting them out. It's not going to make Clinton president, it's not going to offer any comfort to the women, people of color, LGBT community, Muslims, etc. who are feeling justifiably terrified at the reality of a Trump presidency and GOP-controlled Congress and Supreme Court. So on that purely logical level, I wonder if the best thing to do is just tell them how their decision has made me feel, hear them out when they respond, and leave it at that.

This is what I've done. Most Trump supporters I know don't give a shit but most are online Facebook friends so it's easy for them to just ignore stuff and post memes and racist/homophobic/transphobic shit instead of engaging in a conversation. There was a classmate who had a change of heart we discussed the election after class, so I guess that's something.

 

[TAJ]

My parents are in the top income tax bracket. From what I can tell, a significant reason they voted for Trump was so that their taxes wouldn't go up. I'm starting to feel like that is one of the most abhorrent reasons to vote for him. I could at least understand and empathize if they were say blue-collar workers or pro-life single-issue voters. They even went to a Trump rally and seemed to revel in being called "deplorables."

I've been sort of generally disgusted by them over the past couple months, but the weekend before and week of the election, I haven't even had the stomach to speak to them much. I feel pretty disappointed and disillusioned with the fact that acted like such shitty people from a position of such privilege and success.

That tax cut isn't going to mean much after Trump starts a trade war and whatever other dumb shit he does.

 

[Lime]

It's been time for white people to speak out against bigotry. If nothing else, this election proves what happens when good people stand aside and allow evil to waltz on into the White House. People empathize with those in closest proximity to them, and white people are on average going to be closest to white people. Challenging bigoted views in the home is one way to at least get the gears in one's head turning, assuming their opening to listening.

Granted, I'm more of a pragmatist. I'm exhausted of the idea of enlightenment and education because it's been over half a millenia and we've not gotten anywhere close to smashing bigotry into dust. People are suffering every minute that someone is having a talk with ol' Grandpappy about why slavery wasn't a good thing for black people. I want results regardless of whether or not everyone is on board the ship already. Ergo, I would rather people protest, call their senators and hit up town hall meetings, and VOTE (yes, even if you don't want to have a beer with the candidate in question) to institute legal protections, recognition, and exceptions for minorities in the meantime. I feel governmental precedents inspire change quicker than cultural and educational shifts do. As I said before, slaves weren't freed because white people ever got around to liking us. We were freed because a President signed a document saying so. Thus, I want more documents signed and more laws instituted in the meantime.

Thanks Nepenthe! Pure gold right there. That actually also gives me good ideas about which directions to go in. Defeating oppression didn't come from convincing the bigots that other people had equal value, but from institutionalized and legal measures that ensured the relative safety and protection of rights.

What really disappoints me in this whole thing is not necessarily the full-blown bigots being bigots, but close friends who blame PC culture for Trump or that it's the poor white men who have been called bad names and therefore needed to vote for a fascist. And then you have the Leftist who usually agree with social justice who start going on and on about that we need to listen to the white working class. It's so disappointing to see fellow allies and friends dig in their heels and unknowingly reproduce white supremacist thinking (let's center whiteness when talking about class, white feelings over black lives, etc.)