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[Interfectum]

Overwatch also did pretty abysmally at U.K. retail so I don't think new ideas are helping there either.

While the UK market is definitely tanking, I do think a lot of these AAA titles are disappointing across all markets. Dishonored 2, Titanfall 2, Watch Dogs 2, etc won't do much even in the US, not near as much as their predecessors anyway.

 

[Chozo_Lord]

All of these bad sales threads say "in the UK". Could it just be that the game market in the UK has changed dramatically for some reason? Is the UK market remotely useful for predicting the US gaming market?

 

[Kazooie]

Do you feel there were zero good games released this year?

Forza Horizon 3 was good, Uncharted 4 was good, I'm sure Battlefield 1 is good but the Season Pass put me and others off. Titanfall 2 suffered from on oversaturated FPS market.

 

[Daffy Duck]

People are also probably pumping the £60+ they would spend on these games into the games they like to play (such as CoD points/GTA shark cards/FIFA Points/Overwatch loot boxes etc) as thats's where they spend the majority of their time instead of playing these singleplayer games, thus leaving little money to buy these games.

Maybe, who knows. There's definitely a shift going on though and god knows what the cause is.

 

[Exploratory]

Same.

I hate seeing all these hipster complaints. That's how we get generic, straight, white, dude with no personality as the main character in every single video game.

I'm personally glad Ubisoft is trying new things with Watch Dogs 2, and are willing to make a game that isn't super serious all the time.

Is that what it is? I wouldn't be surprised if the "hipster" bullshit is just coded racism.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

For Overwatch, it debuted a bit over 40K, which would put it in line or below our lineup of bombs (relative to that last game) this year.

Doom couldn't manage to top Wolfenstein's debut, and that game wasn't bowling people away with sales.

Like this is full on industry collapse in the U.K. retail market.

Jesus =/
OK then, wtf is going on?? xD

I'd want to say Brexit but I find that hard to believe as game prices haven't moved yet, and overall retail spending is up.

Many of these same AAA sequels ain't doing too hot in the US it would seem either, but is that decline more pronounced here? (maybe it's a perception on gaf as the PAL threads are weekly and have more numbers than the monthly NPD threads)
And it may well not be a Q4 only problem it seems, as you hint so wtf is causing this??

All of these bad sales threads say "in the UK". Could it just be that the game market in the UK has changed dramatically for some reason? Is the UK market remotely useful for predicting the US gaming market?

on the whole it would appear to be yes.

It'd be highly unusual for a game to flop here but be viciously successful in the US.

 

[Nirolak]

While the UK market is definitely tanking, I do think a lot of these AAA titles are disappointing across all markets. Dishonored 2, Titanfall 2, Watch Dogs 2, etc won't do much even in the US, not near as much as their predecessors anyway.

I agree that there are definitely trends in game design causing some titles to collapse (and I think you hit the biggest one: feeling like a last gen game design wise), it's just that I'm not sure how the UK intends to dig out of the greater industry hole it has dug itself into at the same time.

An 80% decline for Watch Dogs is definitely going to be felt worldwide (even if not as severely elsewhere) whereas Doom was actually a very strong uptick from Wolfenstein in the US instead of a decline like the UK.

Jesus =/
OK then, wtf is going on?? xD

I'd want to say Brexit but I find that hard to believe as game prices haven't moved yet, and overall retail spending is up.
Many of these same AAA sequels ain't doing too hot in the US it would seem either but it feels more pronounced here.
And it may well not be a Q4 only problem, so wtf is causing this??

It feels like we're looking at something like a 25%+ market contraction and then some games do better or worse relative to that.

I'm not sure if digital has seen a huge uptick causing that, but I was under the impression that U.K. digital pricing is bad.

Do we actually have any full year stats thus far compared to last year?

 

[Fbh]

Not surprising.

The first one had a lot of hype behind it and was a sort of flagship title for the "next gen". It also released in a time when the new consoles had a serious lack of software releases so people were eager to pick up a new title for their game starved systems.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Oh man, I just realised GAME is going to be in for a really rough xmas.

Again.

 

[EGM1966]

That's because Titanfall was well received. The only real criticism was the lack of a single player campaign, which they have now fired back in 2 with something that is among the best available, and the fact it was Xbox exclusive (literally no impact on the quality of the game).

It had a poor release timing to be sure, but titanfall 2 is amazing. An amazing game could and should sell regardless. However, hype didn't seem as high this time and I don't blame the beta. This is a case where I think console wars helped the first game - it was. Game Xbox one users were constantly touting - going multiplat took away that hype factor for the next "big console exclusive" like it once was.

I know people think multiplat is almost always better, but that is the downfall of doing it. First game was exclusive with Microsoft touting it all over the place. New one isn't, so it's not getting that same attention.


I agree with the red steal comparisons, but I also think watch dogs oversold as a "true next gen game", thus that first game audience would never carry to game 2 even if it delivered. It's also not like 1 is a bad game - it's just not as great as we all imagined it would be.

I think 2 will do alright, it's just not overhype's this time.

I disagree a little on TF. It was critically well received, and a fair number liked it, but I believe a fair number also felt it was too barebones content wise and drifted away feeling full price didn't justify content. It didn't help PC felt like a wasteland while on XB1 only a few modes remained alive while the "story" missions became useless after a while.

TF2 fixes this but I doubt many would know they added SP or expanded content.

I think it wasn't nearly as "sticky" a title as a result and the weak marketing and launch timeframe sealed its fate.

Maybe if still exclusive MS would have helped market it but I'm not convinced this would have helped. XB1 players were familiar with the IP and still ducked it. If the interest was strong from bulk of previous fan base it should have sold better on XB1 regardless but it didn't.

Personally I think it didn't become "sticky" the way Destiny did despite also being content light (if not as bad as TF) and it seems the MO changes might have actually driven previous fans away.

It's a shame as I think TF2 (arguments about MP aside) is a much better package and quality title but it does feel like another sequel suffering from market memory or perceived issues vs the first.

 

[lebowski4ever]

first wd was utter shite, so avoided wd2 altogether. also avoided titanfall2 and went with battlefield1. that was the right choice.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

It feels like we're looking at something like a 25%+ market contraction and then some games do better or worse relative to that.

I'm not sure if digital has seen a huge uptick causing that, but I was under the impression that U.K. digital pricing is bad.

Do we actually have any full year stats thus far compared to last year?

Most speculation at least puts it below the average 30% figure unsurprisingly as our digital prices (for launch AAA titles certainly) are horrificly bad.

 

[Fliesen]

Ironically, Call of Duty sequel 13 (Infinite Warfare) actually has one of the series best single players in terms of refinement, story and characters.

is IW actually sequel 13? i was just randomly going for a number

but a 'good' CoD is really more the exception than the rule, though. For every highlight you get one, if not two, forgettable entries.

Still, i was just trying to point out we shouldn't be using Watch dogs, a series that had two(!) entries so far, as an example of Triple A sequel-itis.

 

[zeromcd73]

For Overwatch, it debuted a bit over 40K, which would put it in line or below our lineup of bombs (relative to that last game) this year.

Doom couldn't manage to top Wolfenstein's debut, and that game wasn't bowling people away with sales.

Like this is full on industry collapse in the U.K. retail market.

Japan: Welcome to the party!

 

[Nirolak]

Japan: Welcome to the party!

Yes, what's been happening in Japan is a good comparison.

 

[Interfectum]

Japan: Welcome to the party!

USA: Where's the party at? We're on our way!

 

[Nirolak]

USA: Where's the party at? We're on our way!

That's been going okay actually.

Console software sales were up 31% year over year in October for example.

 

[Kill3r7]

That's been going okay actually.

Console software sales were up 31% year over year in October for example.

More major AAA releases compared to last year. November is bound to be down.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Yes, what's been happening in Japan is a good comparison.

we're heading for mobile dominance? =/

 

[ViewtifulJC]

we're heading for mobile dominance? =/

mobile and service games, here we come!

 

[Interfectum]

That's been going okay actually.

Console software sales were up 31% year over year in October for example.

Wouldn't that be due to the fact that October 2015 was pretty rough? Besides Halo 5 (?) was there any other big retail game of note?

 

[Y2Kev]

I was a buyer of the first and not of the sequel. I'm a special case though as I swore off all vivendi titles. They just don't make games I enjoy.

 

[Hierophant]

straight up half of u guys complaining ain't even played the game lol, its way better than the first and is simply fun

 

[Coxy100]

Oh man, I just realised GAME is going to be in for a really rough xmas.

Again.

Fingers crossed then we get collectors edition at places other than Game - then I can actually start buying them again!

On topic... are consumers just more aware now? I've not pre-ordered a game for years now. Wait long enough and they hit £20 or so. I have a massive backlog to keep me going.

 

[BKK]

That's been going okay actually.

Console software sales were up 31% year over year in October for example.

US bombing even worse than the UK.

October 2016

Week 40, 2016 - 531,266 units / £20m
Week 41, 2016 - 537,230 units / £21m
Week 42, 2016 - 605,162 units / £22m
Week 43, 2016 - 708,805 units / £25m

Total - 2,382,463 units (+40.76%) / £88m (+46.18%)

October 2015

Week 40, 2015 - 581,418 units / £21.9m
Week 41, 2015 - 369,581 units / £12.9m
Week 42, 2015 - 307,453 units / £10.1m
Week 43, 2015 - 434,162 units / £15.3m

Total - 1,692,614 units / £60.2m

 

[xeroborn55]

I have mostly given up on AAA games. I only buy maybe 2-3 a year (this year its been Doom, Deus Ex, and I bought TF2 on the Best Buy sale last week for $30). I used to buy 8-10 a year easily if not more. These games are, and I'm generalizing here, creatively bankrupt.

There is nothing interesting to me about Uncharted 4, Gears 5, COD 13, etc. I'm not going to spend my time and money on that crap. Its reskinned versions of old games I already played with minimal changes to the formula.

This holiday season's games have been a joke.

The same thing that happened to movies has happened to games. We only get focus tested mass market bullshit made to appeal to the widest possible market.

I'm not even mad though. Disappointed for sure, but if the current trends continue changes will have to be made. This is unsustainable.

People still go to watch marvel movies, but that is a 2 hour time commitment and $15. Spending $60 for a game, $40 for the season pass (fucking season passes are an abomination btw) and hours of my life to play a crappy game just isnt going to cut it anymore.

 

[Interfectum]

straight up half of u guys complaining ain't even played the game lol, its way better than the first and is simply fun

That's the key though, isn't it? I have absolutely no desire to buy WD2 eventhough it reviewed well and I bought WD1.

I feel bored and fatigued with a lot of these AAA games and I think a lot of other gamers do as well.

"Oh look another AAA open world from Ubisoft and for $100 you can buy the gold edit... zzzzZzzz"

 

[Shantom]

That's been going okay actually.

Console software sales were up 31% year over year in October for example.

That's because Oct 2015 was very weak. In the UK software sales were up over 40% in October 2016 Edit: Beaten by BKK

 

[texhnolyze]

This gen will not produce any mega hits.

Destiny and Overwatch say hi.

It already has with Destiny and Overwatch.

Overwatch and Rocket League

Let's see.. Multiplayer game as a service, multiplayer game as a service.. oh, and look, yet another multiplayer game as a service. Pretty much sums up this gen for me.

So, what will Ubisoft do now? Of course they have plans.

Ubisoft's CEO: The Division represents Ubisoft's future, talks future company plans
Ubisoft shifting game lineup to service games, recurring revenue, online/MP support
Ubisoft wants "less and less storytelling" in their games

Game as a service is our future, folks.

 

[Exploratory]

I was a buyer of the first and not of the sequel. I'm a special case though as I swore off all vivendi titles. They just don't make games I enjoy.

 

[YianGaruga]

So what are people in UK spending their entertainment money on? Cake?

 

[AHA-Lambda]

So what are people in UK spending their entertainment money on? Cake?

Marmite and crap Nu-Toblerone

 

[BKK]

So what are people in UK spending their entertainment money on? Cake?

Yep

 

[Hierophant]

That's the key though, isn't it? I have absolutely no desire to buy WD2 eventhough it reviewed well and I bought WD1.

I feel bored and fatigued with a lot of these AAA games and I think a lot of other gamers do as well.

"Oh look another AAA open world from Ubisoft and for $100 you can buy the gold edit... zzzzZzzz"

you can levy a response about how the game is boring (even though i found it fun, but then again i haven't played a ubisoft open world game since watch dogs 1) but i'm mainly addressing the people who are talking about the quality of the game itself, the game is competently made and produced with actually good writing and characters and a decently fun gameplay loop,

watch dogs 2 for all the stuff it gets wrong, it tries a lot of things and gets some of it right

the only sad part is this might send a message that people don't want black protagonists in games (which may be the case considering a bunch of people here decrying "hipster" attitudes when irl they probably dress in dadwear and can barely flex their way out of a paper bag)

 

[dealer-]

the only sad part is this might send a message that people don't want black protagonists in games (which may be the case considering a bunch of people here decrying "hipster" attitudes when irl they probably dress in dadwear and can barely flex their way out of a paper bag)

There was a thread just a few weeks ago arguing the opposite after the success of Battlefield 1 and Mafia 3. I really don't think that will be the takeaway from WD2's poor performance.

 

[EventHorizon]

If the OT is any indication the vast majority of people ITT haven't actually played the game that they're making objectively false statements about. Hell, it seems half of them couldn't be bothered to actually watch a trailer or video of the full game considering the constant unironic use of the word hipster. So basically,

Since these are the same people who are not buying the game, maybe you should listen to them for the reasons why they are not buying the game. It doesn't matter if you think Watch Dogs 2 is a fresh new game if most of the buying public doesn't. For me there is nothing exciting about the Watch Dogs concept. The 'powers' are lame, and it takes place in yet another city. Watch Dogs 2 looks like it is a competent game that I might buy if it goes on a good sale, but nothing about it makes me want to pay full price at release.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I feel that a lot of people felt burned by the original (I liked it a lot)

It was always going to be down considering the original was a highly hyped new IP released near the beginning of the generation but not this much. Will be interesting to see if it shows legs because my nearly all accounts it is a great game and far superior to the original. This one is also releasing in the holiday season.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

How timely

GI.biz: What's going wrong at UK games retail?

Kantar Worldpanel, which is a data firm that speaks directly to consumers to understand their buying behaviour, says there are 180,000 fewer shoppers in the market this year compared with last - and those that remain are spending less money on average. Kantar says that digital isn't the only reason for the drop. It says: "People who are buying fewer mint games aren't just moving into digital - this accounted for just 13 percent of value decline this year. The problem is with generally lower engagement among repeat mint games shoppers."

Kantar states that retailers are seeing a decline in consumers spending on new generation machines compared with older consoles, which speaks to the trend of gamers buying fewer titles and spending longer playing them - which is the phenomenon we've seen around the likes of Destiny, The Division, Grand Theft Auto Online and Overwatch.

Furthermore, look beyond these high profile failures and you'll discover some lower-profile success stories. Bethesda may be disappointed in Dishonored 2, but it won't be upset with its Skyrim remake, which is emerging as one of the sleeper hits of the year. Battlefield 1 had a good start and is continuing to perform very strongly; the game is currently the No.1 shooter in the UK and could even emerge as the biggest Battlefield game in the series yet.

FIFA is always a huge seller, but this year's game has exceeded even EA's expectations, with the game actually selling-out in places in the UK. Xbox One S and Forza Horizon 3 have also outperformed retail expectations, while the Mini NES has become one of the most talked about products of Christmas - if only Nintendo had released enough stock, then retail may have had its Q4 saviour.

Had no idea BF1 was outselling CoD O__O

 

[Schlorgan]

Horizon won't be another 1886. It actually has good gameplay. 1886 feels like the developers were more interested in making a movie than a game.

Horizon will probably be fine but I'm just gonna go ahead and remind you that hindsight is 20/20 and that there's no guarantee that we won't be having similar conversations about Horizon a year from now.

Both Titanfall and WD lost goodwill amongst fans for being overhyped, their sequels payed the price. Same thing happened with Syndicate which was a better game then Unity but sold worse because Unity burnt gamers.

But people keep telling me that Titanfall 1 was a masterpiece!

 

[Floody]

Let's see.. Multiplayer game as a service, multiplayer game as a service.. oh, and look, yet another multiplayer game as a service. Pretty much sums up this gen for me.

So, what will Ubisoft do now? Of course they have plans.

Ubisoft's CEO: The Division represents Ubisoft's future, talks future company plans
Ubisoft shifting game lineup to service games, recurring revenue, online/MP support
Ubisoft wants "less and less storytelling" in their games

Game as a service is our future, folks.

It was inevitable once GTA Online made an insane amount of money, whilst not costing anywhere near as much as it would to make a decent sized SP expansion. I do think the game as a service bubble will pop pretty quick though, they'll eventually all start eating into each others userbase leaving very little for new games, and will eventually just stagnate, hell I wouldn't be that surprised if it's already too late for most to jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Wagram]

Consumers seem to be getting tired of sequels, especially ones from franchises with mixed first entries.

 

[Kthulhu]

Is that what it is? I wouldn't be surprised if the "hipster" bullshit is just coded racism.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't blame Watch Dogs 2's situation on racism. San Andreas sold just fine and it has a black protagonist.

Thank you. Thank you for this.

?

 

[EventHorizon]

Let's see.. Multiplayer game as a service, multiplayer game as a service.. oh, and look, yet another multiplayer game as a service. Pretty much sums up this gen for me.

So, what will Ubisoft do now? Of course they have plans.

Ubisoft's CEO: The Division represents Ubisoft's future, talks future company plans
Ubisoft shifting game lineup to service games, recurring revenue, online/MP support
Ubisoft wants "less and less storytelling" in their games

Game as a service is our future, folks.

While I had an initial bad reaction to UbiSoft's games as a service plan, it doesn't have to be all bad. Part of that just means that support for a game continues at a high level after its initial release. If I love a game, I have no problem buying good content DLC for it.

It all comes down to the implementation. If it just means more good DLC then I'm quite happy. If on the other hand it means more online only multiplayer games, I think UbiSoft will see a crash just like MMORPGs had when everybody tried to get in on that WoW money. The online audience has a fixed size that is dominated by a few players. That makes it doubly worse because online games need a large audience simply in order to work well. It doesn't matter how good people think your game might be. If they also think nobody will play it then they won't buy.

 

[sleverfunk]

Sad Dogs 2.

 

[Supersonicclank]

They need to try and work on NEW Ip instead of rehashing - my thoughts.

 

[Kthulhu]

They need to try and work on NEW Ip instead of rehashing - my thoughts.

Watch Dogs 2 is as much of a rehash as AC2. It's a massive improvement over the first.

 

[GinoFelino]

The multiplayer coop Ghost Recon coming out in March will be huge. Division-huge if they market it right.

Coming out at precisely the right time, too. Little else in the genre coming out around that time.

But yeah, this WD2 thing can't be good for them.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Watch Dogs and Titanfall probably saw huge sales because they were new IP and hyped to hell and back. Both also were regarded as very disappointing so it seems like the sequels are taking hits because of it. Word of mouth is going to have to be very good.

Also just thinking of how Destiny 2 is going to perform.

People are still religiously playing Destiny now though...

Destiny was crapped on by media, and yet, people still kept buying the updates and supporting the game.

Those other two IP had no such support and launched early in the gen. Killzone shadow fall is considered a terrible game by a lot of gaffers, sold over what 3M units? TitanFall and WD both benefited from releasing early, I don't think these are actual bombs, but in line with how many people are actually interesting in these games instead of early adopters buying a ton of games at once for their new systems.

Personally speaking, I'm at the point where I'm not likely to buy anything new for a while, my back log is off the charts! I think that's the next barrier to gaming, how to get the game by game cost down, it's just too much to keep up with, even if you have 1 or 2 favorite genres, it's impossible to play everything good that comes out in that genre, while with movies, i feel I can at least keep up with my super hero flicks and biggest comedies from my favorite comedians.

 

[Zemm]

Cookie-cutter AAA fatigue. Who has time for all this non-sense.

Yeah at this point I think everyone's played at least 2-3 of these open world types of games in the past couple of years. If you aren't Rockstar then you better have something unique to set yourself apart and get people interested.

 

[Nirolak]

Edit: Sorry, I missed some other quotes.