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[Peltz]

Of course it has DisplayPort technology. You guys wanted what? The handheld to have an HDMI port to communicate with the dock? The dock would be unnecessary then.

The handheld uses this tech in order to pass power, image and sound through one single connector (USB-C), the dock then passes image and sound to TV through a standard HDMI.

I question that. I think the dock simply cradles the device to charge/pass video using a proprietary port which only requires the system to "rest" in the dock. If you watch the Jimmy Fallon footage, it did not look like there was anything inserted into the Switch from the dock when Reggie pulled it out of the dock.

It looked like it was simply sitting/resting in the dock and not "locked" into the dock. If it was using the USB-C port on the device when docked, Reggie would not have been able to so casually pull it out and it would have required some (minimal) force to remove it/unhook it from the dock.

I think it will sit in the Dock similar to how the Wii U Gamepad sits in the charging cradle.

See here at 7:42:

https://youtu.be/7TJ7IUNWGl4?t=7m42s

See? It doesn't look like anything was connected via USB-C. I think that will just be for portable charging and (maybe) sharing data.

 

[Graphics Horse]

If it's, as the patent says, "a signal in accordance with the DisplayPort standard", then there's no reason it wouldn't work. A standard like DisplayPort exists precisely to ensure intercompatibility between different devices, and there's not a whole lot Nintendo could do to prevent it from working (without breaking the standard)

Yeah edited to clarify what I meant, suspect there will be an exchange to establish the device is a dock before the display port is enabled. Nothing impossible to subvert though.

 

[atbigelow]

I question that. I think the dock simply cradles the device to charge/pass video using a proprietary port which only requires the system to "rest" in the dock. If you watch the Jimmy Fallon footage, it did not look like there was anything inserted into the Switch from the dock when Reggie pulled it out of the dock.

It looked like it was simply sitting/resting in the dock and not "locked" into the dock. If it was using the USB-C port on the device when docked, Reggie would not have been able to so casually pull it out and it would have required some (minimal) force to remove it/unhook it from the dock.

I think it will sit in the Dock similar to how the Wii U Gamepad sits in the charging cradle.

See here at 7:42:

https://youtu.be/7TJ7IUNWGl4?t=7m42s

See? It doesn't look like anything was connected via USB-C. I think that will just be for portable charging and (maybe) sharing data.

So... there's two ports or it's a proprietary port? We have leaked accessories pointing to Type-C, patents that line-up with Type-C, technology that lines-up with Type-C.

You know that the dock could just... not have the typical Type-C connector, right? The DOCK can be the proprietary.

 

[calc84maniac]

Re: displayport, it's right there in the patent:

Interesting, that gives a pretty clear image of the dock design, and it's not simply passthrough.

So I assume those 3 extension terminals are probably two USB ports and an Ethernet port? Would make sense to me.

Also interesting to see the dock might have its own sleep button.

 

[Peltz]

So... there's two ports or it's a proprietary port?

You know that the dock could just... not have the typical Type-C connector, right?

That's certainly possible.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I have to admit I have zero experience with docks for iPods etc, do they normally have much resistance?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Anyone else find it interesting there's no power button, only a sleep button

 

[Doctre81]

Displayport confirmed?

Ya'll ready for that 8k Netflix on switch? lol

 

[Skittzo0413]

Anyone else find it interesting there's no power button, only a sleep button

Isn't that just for the dock? The tablet has a power/sleep button that probably works like smart phones. Short press for sleep, long press for power, etc.

 

[Arjayes]

Aren't patents not published until 18 months after filing? So isn't this information a year and a half old (knows nothing about patents).
edit: My post doesn't even relate to what you guys are talking about; I was just wondering.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Aren't patents not published until 18 months after filing? So isn't this information a year and a half old (knows nothing about patents).

The publishing date relative to the filing date can vary quite a bit. In this case the Switch patent application was filed in June, so 6 months before being published. They also filed a non-publication request so that it wasn't published too early.

In my experience patent applications are typically published anywhere from 3 to 9 months after filing, usually not outside of that range. But sometimes.

Yes, the patents were originally filed back in June 2015 and were published this month.

No, this was filed June 10, 2016. The foreign priority goes back to a Japanese patent filed June 12, 2015 but this US patent application was filed June of this year.

 

[SirShandy]

Aren't patents not published until 18 months after filing? So isn't this information a year and a half old (knows nothing about patents).

Yes, I checked the patent thread and noticed that.

The patents were filed on June 10, 2016, not June 2015. So they were published about six months later.

 

[Arjayes]

Thanks for explaining the basics to me even though it should be common sense.

Hmm... theoretically I like Nintendo's current setup. From here they could technically enter the graphics arm race, right? They could release a sort of "premium" dock that would boost TV performance and when people got used to that they could update the handheld with a better screen and whatnot maybe. Every two years the products could leapfrog each other. Couple that with SCD's for the "hardcore" gamer that not only satisfies them but helps people who are hesitant to upgrade by offering better performance. I don't really know much about clock speeds and the sort but if it can play the Mario game I saw smoothly then I'm okay with that; especially on the go.

 

[calc84maniac]

Thanks for explaining the basics to me even though it should be common sense.

Hmm... theoretically I like Nintendo's current setup. From here they could technically enter the graphics arm race, right? They could release a sort of "premium" dock that would boost TV performance and when people got used to that they could update the handheld with a better screen and whatnot maybe. Every two years the products could leapfrog each other. Couple that with SCD's for the "hardcore" gamer that not only satisfies them but helps people who are hesitant to upgrade by offering better performance. I don't really know much about clock speeds and the sort but if it can play the Mario game I saw smoothly then I'm okay with that; especially on the go.

The dock itself isn't going to "boost" anything without a SCD. The actual boost is in the main unit (not counting improved network performance from using Ethernet). I mean, the dock could theoretically have its own upscaler but that doesn't mean much.

 

[LCGeek]

Your video just proves my point it looks like dog turds.

it's at 800x600 and running low is my point. Rather switch could do more not less. My point is that your turds limit is well below what switch would or could perform. Others are more correct in assuming switch would be closer not nearly as far behind as your trying to imply. With exception to a few games say something like driveclub, which we have seen butchered via the VR version, there are very few titles that developers couldn't do.

Lastly you can call graphics whatever you want but sales are sales and neither consumers nor publishers care what your crowd thinks if they like a game to begin with.

 

[Pokemaniac]

GameMaker Studio supports a ton of platforms already, would be neat if it adds Switch support soon. Then Undertale itself wouldn't need extensive porting work, no?

Undertale specifically has some particular things it does that would either need to be redesigned for consoles or negotiation with platform holders to waive certain certification requirements.

But in general, yes, Game Maker support would be very helpful for games made with it.

 

[calc84maniac]

So for those of you that know how Cortex-A57 setups work - is it possible to disable cores and run the remaining cores at a higher clock speed for similar power usage? I'm thinking about the whole Turbo Boost thing that improves single-threaded performance on Intel processors (though obviously this would be controlled by the OS on the Switch and not automatic).

Of course, the leaks don't point to something like this being generally available to developers at this point, but I wonder if some Nintendo software could theoretically do this (for example GameCube VC, which would be bottlenecked by single-threaded performance).

 

[lwilliams3]

it's at 800x600 and running low is my point. Rather switch could do more not less. My point is that your turds limit is well below what switch would or could perform. Others are more correct in assuming switch would be closer not nearly as far behind as your trying to imply. With exception to a few games say something like driveclub, which we have seen butchered via the VR version, there are very few titles that developers couldn't do.

Lastly you can call graphics whatever you want but sales are sales and neither consumers nor publishers care what your crowd thinks if they like a game to begin with.

Hey LCGeek. I sent you a PM awhile about this, but can elaborate how bad the dev tools were for previous Nintendo and how much of a difference it could make after coming from the WiiU?

 

[LCGeek]

Hey LCGeek. I sent you a PM awhile about this, but can elaborate how bad the dev tools were for previous Nintendo and how much of a difference it could make after coming from the WiiU?

You can easily go back to me on Wii or GC topics and get that opinion. Others have stated it as ranging from non existent to useless crap. The fact nvidia will be making the OS and the API based from vulkan is huge. The same for having UE4 support when in previous generations while nintendo had on the platform it saw no real love from epic. The tools are in a legit spot, what I want nintendo to do is as I asked before get involved with the gaming process, if amd/nvidia/sony/microsoft do why can't they besides pure sheer incompetence. Things like bayonetta or what they did with capcom/ubisoft on GC at times what they should be wanting to do.

 

[SirShandy]

Thanks for explaining the basics to me even though it should be common sense.

Hmm... theoretically I like Nintendo's current setup. From here they could technically enter the graphics arm race, right? They could release a sort of "premium" dock that would boost TV performance and when people got used to that they could update the handheld with a better screen and whatnot maybe. Every two years the products could leapfrog each other. Couple that with SCD's for the "hardcore" gamer that not only satisfies them but helps people who are hesitant to upgrade by offering better performance. I don't really know much about clock speeds and the sort but if it can play the Mario game I saw smoothly then I'm okay with that; especially on the go.

I think Nintendo is more likely to sell higher powered revisions of the Switch, which will work with all existing docks.

The thing is, for the last decade and up until now, Nintendo has been very clear in their actions and in their words that they are not interested in following the power arms race of the other consoles. Reggie explicitly stated this in an interview during E3 2016. Expectantly, many on this forum balked at him for his words then, and have acted now with surprise at the latest Switch hardware leaks. I'm not sure how much more transparent Nintendo needs to be with their intentions on this matter.

One could reply that it's not the lack of competitive technical edge that's the problem, it's the degree to which they are cutting themselves short. I can only respond that, one - given it's a custom chip of which we have merely a patchwork of details, we haven't a clear idea yet of how short they are cutting themselves. And two - whatever the result is, it's likely to dissatisfy the spec-hungry enthusiasts that make up much of this forum, simply because it's not aiming specifically to satisfy them.

 

[Skittzo0413]

You can easily go back to me on Wii or GC topics and get that opinion. Others have stated it as ranging from non existent to useless crap. The fact nvidia will be making the OS and the API based from vulkan is huge. The same for having UE4 support when in previous generations while nintendo had on the platform it saw no real love from epic. The tools are in a legit spot, what I want nintendo to do is as I asked before get involved with the gaming process, if amd/nvidia/sony/microsoft do why can't they besides pure sheer incompetence. Things like bayonetta or what they did with capcom/ubisoft on GC at times what they should be wanting to do.

This is good to know. Do you expect that we'll see better western third party support than the Wii U saw due to all of this? Even taking the reduced clock speeds into account? I'm really hoping so because the portability of the Switch form factor makes it literally perfect for my gaming habits, and any multiplats I'm getting I'd much rather get on the Switch due to that than even PC.

 

[AzaK]

Thanks, I'm surprised we missed than when running through the patent (or I just missed the posts that brought it up).

Anyway, as discussed before, this makes a lot of sense, as HDMI over USB-C wasn't even a thing when the Switch was being designed. I'll be interested to see if this means that you can plug the Switch directly into a monitor for video output without the dock (in theory it should, if they are using the USB-C DisplayPort alt mode).

I always thought that would make sense so you could take your Switch to a friend's/family's place and play there with out having to take the dock and cables etc.

 

[AzaK]

Aren't patents not published until 18 months after filing? So isn't this information a year and a half old (knows nothing about patents).
edit: My post doesn't even relate to what you guys are talking about; I was just wondering.

Patents vary wildly. The patent I was involved with took about 4 1/2 years

 

[Roo]

You can easily go back to me on Wii or GC topics and get that opinion. Others have stated it as ranging from non existent to useless crap. The fact nvidia will be making the OS and the API based from vulkan is huge. The same for having UE4 support when in previous generations while nintendo had on the platform it saw no real love from epic. The tools are in a legit spot, what I want nintendo to do is as I asked before get involved with the gaming process, if amd/nvidia/sony/microsoft do why can't they besides pure sheer incompetence. Things like bayonetta or what they did with capcom/ubisoft on GC at times what they should be wanting to do.

Wait, nvidia is making the Switch OS?
that's.. news to me.
I always assumed they'd be involved but not beyond providing documentation and advice to Nintendo here and there.
Nvidia taking a more active role on that is surprising to say at least.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

You can easily go back to me on Wii or GC topics and get that opinion. Others have stated it as ranging from non existent to useless crap. The fact nvidia will be making the OS and the API based from vulkan is huge. The same for having UE4 support when in previous generations while nintendo had on the platform it saw no real love from epic. The tools are in a legit spot, what I want nintendo to do is as I asked before get involved with the gaming process, if amd/nvidia/sony/microsoft do why can't they besides pure sheer incompetence. Things like bayonetta or what they did with capcom/ubisoft on GC at times what they should be wanting to do.

Oh lawd, please let it be more stable than their graphics card drivers as of recent

 

[Skittzo0413]

Patents vary wildly. The patent I was involved with took about 4 1/2 years

From filing to grant or filing to publishing? The poster you responded to was talking about the latter.

If yours was 4.5 years from filing to even being published then that's by far the longest I've ever heard of. But for filing > grant, yeah it can take that long or even longer.

 

[lwilliams3]

You can easily go back to me on Wii or GC topics and get that opinion. Others have stated it as ranging from non existent to useless crap. The fact nvidia will be making the OS and the API based from vulkan is huge. The same for having UE4 support when in previous generations while nintendo had on the platform it saw no real love from epic. The tools are in a legit spot, what I want nintendo to do is as I asked before get involved with the gaming process, if amd/nvidia/sony/microsoft do why can't they besides pure sheer incompetence. Things like bayonetta or what they did with capcom/ubisoft on GC at times what they should be wanting to do.

Hmm, I was thinking about how much more efficient the tools will be (compared to us hearing things like one company couldn't activate the third core of Wii U's CPU until late in development, or lherre hearing that the framerate for a third party game engine was initially prunning in the single digits), but I guess I have to accept that some development didn't even get off the ground.

For the Wii U, though, it sounded that they tried to help. At least one dev said that Nintendo was helping them run their game engine on the system. The issue I gathered is that they weren't able to figure things out. There were language barrier issues too.

Nintendo teaming up with NVIDIA probably already dramatically increased the chances of good support by an inmeasurable amount.

 

[calc84maniac]

I can't recall, are we sure Nvidia is making the OS, or are they just making the graphics APIs and drivers? I would say they'd use the OS they made for the Shield, but they just used Android for that...

 

[Shahadan]

No we don't know anything about the OS

 

[bomblord1]

I can't recall, are we sure Nvidia is making the OS, or are they just making the graphics APIs and drivers? I would say they'd use the OS they made for the Shield, but they just used Android for that...

We know that it's running Nintendo OS from the Khronos Vulkan conformance adopter chart.

 

[Vic]

Doubt Nvidia made the actual OS. They're most likely heavily implicated in the lower level side of things.

Hmm, I was thinking about how much more efficient the tools will be (compared to us hearing things like one company couldn't activate the third core of Wii U's CPU until late in development, or lherre hearing that the framerate for a third party game engine was initially prunning in the single digits), but I guess I have to accept that some development didn't even get off the ground.

For the Wii U, though, it sounded that they tried to help. At least one dev said that Nintendo was helping them run their game engine on the system. The issue I gathered is that they weren't able to figure things out. There were language barrier issues too.

Nintendo teaming up with NVIDIA probably already dramatically increased the chances of good support by an inmeasurable amount.

The fact that the Switch is Vulkan, OpenGL and OpenGL GS compilant is a pretty big move. No need to learn some exotic, non-standardized functions in-order to render stuff on the screen.

 

[Easy_D]

Doubt Nvidia made the actual OS. They're most likely heavily implicated in the lower level side of things.


The fact that the Switch is Vulkan, OpenGL and OpenGL GS compilant is a pretty big move. No need to learn some exotic, non-standardized functions in-order to render stuff on the screen.

Yeah, if anything, it'll bring a shitload of indies to the system. Will double dip on Shovel Knight if they port it.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yeah, if anything, it'll bring a shitload of indies to the system. Will double dip on Shovel Knight if they port it.

Wouldn't surprise me if it launches simultaneously with the Spectre Knight update.

 

[Vic]

Yeah, if anything, it'll bring a shitload of indies to the system. Will double dip on Shovel Knight if they port it.

Seeing how most of Shovel Knight' sales are from the Wii U and 3DS, I'll say it's a given.

 

[KingSnake]

Interesting, that gives a pretty clear image of the dock design, and it's not simply passthrough.

So I assume those 3 extension terminals are probably two USB ports and an Ethernet port? Would make sense to me.

Also interesting to see the dock might have its own sleep button.

The 3 extension terminals are 3 USB ports currently.

[0464] The cradle 5 includes the connection processing section 136 and the extension terminals 137. The extension terminals 137 are terminals for connecting other devices. In the present embodiment, the cradle 5 includes a plurality (more specifically, three) of USB terminals as the extension terminals 137.

Probably 2 USB 2.0 and 1 USB 3.0.

 

[Doctre81]

No we don't know anything about the OS

We know it's called Nintendo OS.

 

[Scum]

NintendOS or bust!

 

[tebunker]

NintendOS or bust!

NintenDOS or bust

 

[Smurfman256]

NintenDOS or bust

but it can't be a DOS since there's no DISK. Ergo, it's NintenFOS (Flash-based Operating System).

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I wonder if there is custom hardware in Switch for specific graphical tasks. Could Nintendo have created something with Nvidia that takes care of particles or lighting or shadows or something else usually computationally expensive ? I'm thinking along the lines of the TEV unit in Gamecube.

Doesn't PS4 have special additional shaders over XB1 that handle particles really well ?

 

[Doctre81]

I wonder if there is custom hardware in Switch for specific graphical tasks. Could Nintendo have created something with Nvidia that takes care of particles or lighting or shadows or something else usually computationally expensive ? I'm thinking along the lines of the TEV unit in Gamecube.

Doesn't PS4 have special additional shaders over XB1 that handle particles really well ?

Well ps4 has 50% more shader cores than xb1 in general.

1152 vs 768

 

[MCN]

Having the right tools is going to go a long, long way to getting third-party support, as it makes it exponentially easier to port to the machine. Fewer gigaflops can be accounted for by reducing density and complexity of geometry, which devs do to maximise PC compatibility anyway. Until now, the real trouble seems to have been having to port to elderly, poorly-supported architectures with piss-poor tools and documentation.

 

[vern]

Speaking of indies, I know of One that is coming and will Be a pretty good get for Nintendo. I think it is launch day, however could be launch window. To me, it's the most exciting game that I've heard is coming. Though I'm big on 2D platformers generally so...

Anyway I agree it should be a pretty good system for indie games. I love Shovel Knight so I hope that is coming as others have said too. I'll buy it again to take on the go if it comes.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Well ps4 has 50% more shader cores than xb1 in general.

1152 vs 768

Oh. Is it custom GPU compute or something then ? I remember them talking about how the particles in Infamous were "free".

Speaking of indies, I know of One that is coming and will Be a pretty good get for Nintendo. I think it is launch day, however could be launch window. To me, it's the most exciting game that I've heard is coming. Though I'm big on 2D platformers generally so...

Anyway I agree it should be a pretty good system for indie games. I love Shovel Knight so I hope that is coming as others have said too. I'll buy it again to take on the go if it comes.

Is it a game currently available for PS4 and XB1 ?

 

[Astral Dog]

The Swotch would benefit alot from an overclocking with all those sweet modern features.

 

[bomblord1]

Speaking of indies, I know of One that is coming and will Be a pretty good get for Nintendo. I think it is launch day, however could be launch window. To me, it's the most exciting game that I've heard is coming. Though I'm big on 2D platformers generally so...

Anyway I agree it should be a pretty good system for indie games. I love Shovel Knight so I hope that is coming as others have said too. I'll buy it again to take on the go if it comes.

Shaantae?

 

[Vic]

Don't give us any clues, vern. 3 weeks.

If there's one thing you could leak, it's the specs goddammit.

 

[vern]

Don't give us any clues, vern. 3 weeks.

If there's one thing you could leak, it's the specs goddammit.

I said about as much as I can, as of now. Plus y'all all (rightfully) question me, so yea... wait a few weeks.

Shaantae?

No I haven't heard about that one. Don't run through all the games though hahah, I won't confirm or deny.

And yes it's available now for other platform(s).

 

[optimiss]

Shaantae?

What game has the initials OB?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I said about as much as I can, as of now. Plus y'all all (rightfully) question me, so yea... wait a few weeks.



No I haven't heard about that one. Don't run through all the games though hahah, I won't confirm or deny.

And yes it's available now for other platform(s).

Cuphead ?