-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Monkey Paw: Do we REALLY-REALLY want a new F-ZERO?
- Thread starter IAmMonodi
- Start date
Spring-Loaded
Member
Something like this would be most likely:
This Miyamoto quote about F-zero
has led me to believe nothing more will be done with the series until something truly new can be done with it. Iteration and merely an improvement upon F-Zero GX's formula will not be enough.
enter Project Giant Robot
This has been M.I.A. for a while. Miyamoto combined Star Fox with Project Guard and the helicopter pilot + gunner project (which were shown alongside Giant Robot), and SF: Zero probably wouldn't have been made had it had a traditional control scheme and/or if it couldn't be released aside Project Guard in some fashion.
This seems like a push Miyamoto would make: have Project Giant Robot become F-Zero: Giant Robot and infuse the series with a new method of control and a new type of gameplay. Traditional F-Zero machine racing could be the second pillar of gameplay, or a separate game included with F-Zero: Giant Robot, perhaps using the NX's capacitive screen to influence the ship's movement while also controlling the robot fighting giant opponents something like the PS2 game R.A.D. except instead of controlling an on-foot person who is themselves controlling a giant robot, you would be controlling Captain Falcon who is steering is hover ship while he's also controlling a giant robot in a robot fight.
This could then be used to gauge interest in the franchise overall, possibly leading to a standalone racing title. it would justify the NX controller (if it ends up being like the patent mockups).
TheDinoman
Member
Smash kinda did go in a different direction after Melee...
It's worth noting that the only Mario Kart that was just the same old game again is also specifically the Mario Kart that people generally don't like.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Squeeze giant robots in there somewhere. Make it battle racing or something then have a pure racing mode.
Quota out the way, gimme the game.
Quota out the way, gimme the game.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yeah right, Star Fox was never good. The new shtick for when Nintendo fucked up a serie.
wild wild rice
Member
This is one of those sequels that I would be OK with it feeling like "more of the same." I think what would make it feel significantly new is the improved tech since Gamecube. I want to know what F-Zero looks and feels like on Switch, aka, three Gamecubes taped to a DS.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yep. I get not wanting to run their franchises into the ground, but no one is suggesting yearly installments. Just one game a generation for things like FZero, Metroid, Wave Race etc would keep people happier, help round out their exclusives library and reduce software droughts.
That's not what I said, but feel free to troll whenever you're losing an argument.
Already Torn
Banned
Fuck up the controls, make the difficulty laughably easy, and add in Nintendo characters like Yoshi and Miis
Maybe slow it down a lot and make them ride on like animals instead of cars?
GhostTrick
Banned
Yeah right, I'm trolling now. Says the guy who claims the Star Fox games were never good. Right I get it, press wasn't professionnal back then. So I guess it means no games were good before ? There's a consensus, there's a thing beyond the gaming community, to recognize that Star Fox, Star Fox 64, Star Fox Adventures are good. As for the rest, gaming press was there if you want to separate what was good and what wasn't.
Where exactly did I say that SF and SF64 aren't good ? I explicitely said that they were the only two good games in the serie. Read again my previous posts.
Star Fox Adventures isn't a proper Star Fox game. It's merely an action-adventure Zelda-like game that got a Star Fox skin on the characters. It's as much a Star Fox game as Zelda Twilight Princess is.
There's a consensus that nothing has been not disappointing in the serie after Starfox 64. That's why every fan is asking for a good game in the vein of Starfox 64. Because everything after it was either bad or barely decent. And well, the bad games are the major part of the serie.
If they ABSOLUTELY NEED something new in the IP. Why not making the race builder as important as Mario Maker ? That way we can have everything we know and love about F Zero with unlimted tracks. They were already on it during the N64 days but now it would be completly different since everyone have Internet.
GhostTrick
Banned
Right, so Star Fox Adventures isn't part of the serie, Star Fox 64 3D was bad and Command was too. (pro-tip, they weren't.)
People asked for Starfox to go back to then N64 roots, as a rail shooting game. But they didn't asked for a glorified N64 game. There's two bad Starfox games: Assault and Zero.
Already Torn
Banned
Maaaan, lumping Assault and Zero together just seems dirty. I'd say Assault is at least Command tier.
TDLink
Member
I do think the way to make the IP successful is, unfortunately, completely changing its genre. Still have racing as a multiplayer mode, but make the main game some sort of open world GTAish game or a Captain Falcon action game or something like that. People just aren't interested in futuristic racers as a genre. That said, a game like this with the IP could still be good even if it's different.
AtomicShroom
Member
Those rather straightforward kind of games don't really have enough of a market anymore, but by bundling a few of them tightener, they would have immense value.
I mean, for example, how hard would it be to repurpose the Mario Kart engine into a F-Zero game? Just bundle F-Zero with Mario Kart and sell them together! Nintendo Racing! I don't know...
I mean, for example, how hard would it be to repurpose the Mario Kart engine into a F-Zero game? Just bundle F-Zero with Mario Kart and sell them together! Nintendo Racing! I don't know...
GhostTrick
Banned
Well, I'd say it too, but Assault got burnt by critics. The game was flawed indeed, but I believe it was a better game than Zero and at least made us of the GC's capabilities to display new gen space battles, unlike Zero.
woopWOOP
Member
I'd like to hear something like this with non-stop bah-bah's
Anyway, track editor. There's your innovation. No, the 64DD expansion doesn't count because we didn't get it. Give me an F-Zero game with track editor, damnit
Can we please force Miyamoto into retirement already so we don't have to deal with this stupid logic and start getting shinier installments of series we like, like so many normal companies provide? I mean I get that FZ is not all that popular but they could at least try one more time.
I really don't care about Miyamoto's silly excuses and it's not like Nintendo doesn't already try stuff that clearly won't sell (Federation Force, anyone?)
I really don't care about Miyamoto's silly excuses and it's not like Nintendo doesn't already try stuff that clearly won't sell (Federation Force, anyone?)
TDLink
Member
Star Fox Assault's multiplayer was a ton of fun and the best in the series. It's a shame the game's mediocre campaign makes people generally look down on it.
And to be fair, Assault had its heart in the right place. It was a campaign with brand new story, brand new locations, brand new characters, and brand new antagonists. Everything a new Star Fox game really should have. Making Zero retread 64 which retread the original is a huge mistake for the franchise.
It just needed a better campaign that was more focused on the flight than it was. Based on how great the multiplayer was though I feel that was probably their development focus to begin with.
And to be fair, Assault had its heart in the right place. It was a campaign with brand new story, brand new locations, brand new characters, and brand new antagonists. Everything a new Star Fox game really should have. Making Zero retread 64 which retread the original is a huge mistake for the franchise.
It just needed a better campaign that was more focused on the flight than it was. Based on how great the multiplayer was though I feel that was probably their development focus to begin with.
SF64 3D is a remake, thanks god it's not bad, it just remade the graphics of the original.
Command was as bad as any other games. The "strategic" part of the game was awful, visually it was a mess thanks to the DS's resolution, and the described story was hilariously bad, with the art-cutscenes that are now famous for bad reasons.
So yeah, there are five proper new Star Fox games, and three of them are bad. I wouldn't say I'm good at math but I'm confident saying that it means the major part of the serie is bad.
The initial point was : a bad game don't necessarily kill an IP, Star Fox is the living proof of it. Most of these games are bad and yet, we get new games sometimes.
TheDinoman
Member
I think a lot of that is because Miyamoto is the guy pushing for Star Fox to be made when he wants it. It's kind of a similar thing with Pikmin.
Unfortunately, Miyamoto doesn't want to make a new F-Zero, so that's why we go without.
GhostTrick
Banned
Except Star Fox Command's reception was better. No, it wasn't visually awful, it was up to the standards on the hardware bad then. The game had neat ideas and controlled well (as opposed to Zero). And at least, it used the system capabilities. The serie is comprised of 6 games. 3 of them are considered really good, one is considered good and 2 are considered bad/average. So yeah, you're definitely not good at math Kanozu.
Right I get your point, except that while a bad game doesn't necessarily kill an IP, your exemple doesn't stand for two reason: First, SF wont die because of quality but because Miyamoto endorsed the latest game strongly, with his terrible ideas and the game bombed. Command or Assault failing didn't matter cause at the time, the IP wasn't under the radar. This time though, it was.
It may be the case, but Pikmin for instance is in a way better shape than F-Zero or Starfox. It's selling decently (Pikmin 3 didn't set the world on fire but I think it may have reached the million with the recent rerelease) and a new one is planned for the next year, in addition to a spin-off on 3DS.
I think it's more that Pikmin is a well-managed serie with a relatively low budget, as opposed to F-Zero GX which was in some sort of development hell, with two very different development teams.
Star Fox Command's reception was better because since it was a handled game, expectations were lowered. It may be better than recent Star Fox game if you absolutely want it to be better, that's still nothing I would call a good game. And the critical receptions absolutely don't show it was an especially good game for them, at all. It's sitting with a 76 metascore. That doesn't change what I said, Souten, two great games that are still waiting to be surpassed, while the rest (including only new games ofc, get out with that remake) ranges from decent to mediocre. You can switch the bad with the mediocre games however you want, it doesn't really matter.
Also, Assault definitely had way more expectations from Nintendo than Zero. Mostly because it was the first proper game since Starfox 64 (which was a huge commercial success), and the gamecube proved that good shooter games could sell on it (like the Star Wars Rogue Squadron games). Unfortunately they screwed everything and it ended up tanking, and the serie never managed to retrieve its appeal.
F-Zero GX is still an amazing game, but it's not like an unrachabke zenith of the franchise.
The game's aesthetics is superb, while the assets are outdated the art direction is so good that it still holds out nicely, expecially in HD through emulation.
Story mode was a fun addition (albeit a bit cheap compared to the races), unlocking all the characters bios/music and endings was a real feat.
What could a new F-Zero game give more?
Still a lot.
The gameplay felt better in X, as I always felt the control was more precise. I don't know what is the reason, if it was the physics or different analoh sensitivity settings. I'd gladly welcome back that handling feel.
Track selection overall was stronger in X as well, and personally I loved the "flat" tracks which were a callback to the snes original,loved Big Hand especially.
Music was strong in all the console iterations, i loved the hard rock bmg of X but GX was great too, and the Snes old-scifi sounding synth fit great too, working wery well on some tracks (I absolutely love Silence)
Oh, and while the Snes has primitive graphics compared to the sequels, it had some sort of otherworldly effect that made you really feel you were racing on different planets, that feeling wasn't as strong in the sequels despite all the improvements.
Finally, the game could up the number of racers on the map even more, get rid of the bugged techniques used both in X and GX in favour of "cleaner" driving, and obviously add a solid online, 16+ players f-zero would be soooo good
The game's aesthetics is superb, while the assets are outdated the art direction is so good that it still holds out nicely, expecially in HD through emulation.
Story mode was a fun addition (albeit a bit cheap compared to the races), unlocking all the characters bios/music and endings was a real feat.
What could a new F-Zero game give more?
Still a lot.
The gameplay felt better in X, as I always felt the control was more precise. I don't know what is the reason, if it was the physics or different analoh sensitivity settings. I'd gladly welcome back that handling feel.
Track selection overall was stronger in X as well, and personally I loved the "flat" tracks which were a callback to the snes original,loved Big Hand especially.
Music was strong in all the console iterations, i loved the hard rock bmg of X but GX was great too, and the Snes old-scifi sounding synth fit great too, working wery well on some tracks (I absolutely love Silence)
Oh, and while the Snes has primitive graphics compared to the sequels, it had some sort of otherworldly effect that made you really feel you were racing on different planets, that feeling wasn't as strong in the sequels despite all the improvements.
Finally, the game could up the number of racers on the map even more, get rid of the bugged techniques used both in X and GX in favour of "cleaner" driving, and obviously add a solid online, 16+ players f-zero would be soooo good
Leatherface
Member
X was fucking awesome! I would take a remake of either and be pretty happy honestly.
TDLink
Member
[Fugo];227448263 said:
While there are technical aspects that could be improved upon from GX, the reason most people think it's "an unreachable zenith" of the franchise (and genre) is because it's such a fully featured package. The story mode, the number of characters, the volume of tracks, just how difficult it is to unlock everything...it's unlikely we'll ever get another entry with a budget like that had and thus unlikely we'd ever get one with that amount of content.
Chû Totoro
Member
MK the same over and over... Come on, please
Or maybe by "new direction" you're talking about something else?
Clearly Miyamoto talks about new gameplay elements, it's Nintendo signature, working on gameplay first.
I'm not sure I'd take the risk to give Miyamoto a free pass to do whatever he wants with F-Zero but let's not tell such crazy things (I know many are telling this for many Nintendo franchises.. and they believe it but it's not true).
Now for my personal opinion, I'm ok with a sequel with improvements similar to what we have in most sequels today: bigger, more beautiful and online. It's not like we had 10 similar F-Zero already.
MrCunningham
Member
Of course I want a new F-Zero.
TheMoon
Member
Jesus christ people, Miyamoto is not overseeing game dev at EPD anymore.
Stop living in the past lol
Y'all up on his ass like Miyamoto this Miyamoto that and he's just sitting there thinking about the Universal Theme Park going like "wtf these dudes yapping about?"
And you guys saying "they'd make it piss easy" ... good to know you haven't played a Nintendo game in the last decade or so^^
Stop living in the past lol
Y'all up on his ass like Miyamoto this Miyamoto that and he's just sitting there thinking about the Universal Theme Park going like "wtf these dudes yapping about?"
And you guys saying "they'd make it piss easy" ... good to know you haven't played a Nintendo game in the last decade or so^^
Vital Tundra
Member
At this point in time I don't think Miyamoto will be mucking up any new games with a needless gimmick. The transition has already started and you can bet Nintendo will be moving away front Miyamoto gimmicks. The younger guys know what we want and if we do get an FZero, it'll be the FZero we want.
Air boarding and slowing the game down to make it accessible
Yes.
But like others have said, just GX again in HD with online play would be enough for me to buy it day one.
No need to re-invent the not-wheel. I don't understand why they're so insistent on "innovating" with each successive iteration. Sometimes it just needs to be more. The Smash team clearly understands this. Why does F-Zero have to be different?
But like others have said, just GX again in HD with online play would be enough for me to buy it day one.
No need to re-invent the not-wheel. I don't understand why they're so insistent on "innovating" with each successive iteration. Sometimes it just needs to be more. The Smash team clearly understands this. Why does F-Zero have to be different?
TheMoon
Member
I'd be just as careful with that notion that with the "yooo Miyamoto is devil get torches!"
Stallion Dan
Member
Not if Nintendo gonna charge full price for it.
I expect it to be like £10-15, similar to Wipeout HD.
I expect it to be like £10-15, similar to Wipeout HD.
Subjective. It is very satisfying to me and controls perfectly fine.
Completely different physics in GX. You generally don't want to turn with side attacks in GX unless the machine sucks at cornering otherwise, or you're using it in a way to go faster, which is a more advanced usage of side attacks.
You mentioned chapter 5, the one that is almost purely reliant on skill over chapter 7, which I'll admit has quite a bit of bullshit? Alrighty then.
Though in 5 the door closing at the end can be hit or miss.
Then don't snake, simple as that. And GX has other exploits that takes more than a month of practice. to use proficiently. And it really isn't an advantage for X when F-Zero is straight up known for its exploits and glitches.
The same thing can be said about X in master mode GP where it is straight up impossible to win every race if you aren't using the top machines and advanced techniques. And it has ridiculous rubberband AI in GP mode, where as in GX that's only the case in story mode.
As for anyone saying the controls are bad, don't mistake precise, sensitive controls for using machines that are inherently hard to control, and if you jerk the control stick quickly instead of pushing it slowly, well if you aren't holding R or L then the game is designed to make you lose control if you do that, especially while you are boosting.
Control stick sensitivity can be changed. And I realize that some people straight up don't like super responsive controls.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Well... yes, we want a new F-Zero. We also don't want them to fuck it up. I guess we want two things.
Mario Kart, Smash and New Super Mario games each sell at least 20 Times the amount of F-Zero. As much I would love F-Zero, Miyamoto's logic makes sense. There is no reason to invest in another f-zero unless they do something to the franchise that would draw in more sales. It's a very niche game as is.
TDLink
Member
Yup. Again, only three realistic options for the franchise going forward:
- GX released on Switch VC
- GX remaster with online play
- New game that is a new, more profitable genre, utilizing the F-Zero IP, possibly with racing relegated to a multiplayer mode
We'll never get a brand new game like X or GX ever again. I still welcome all three of these options though.
humansarehorses
Member
Just have Nintendo stay as far away as possible from development and we're golden.
-Mutsukki-
Member
If an F-Zero comes out like Star Fox Zero did
then yes I do want it, thank you
There we go, that's why we're not having a new F-Zero
people won't buy it
the end
then yes I do want it, thank you
There we go, that's why we're not having a new F-Zero
people won't buy it
the end
swarley64
Member
You're not wrong! Best soundtrack on the N64 yo
Similar threads
- Poll