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Why won't WB drop Zack Snyder?

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Nev

Banned
I'm guessing he has some kind of contract for Justice League and that kind of sucks but it's what it is, but why in the world is this guy listed for JL 2?

There must be some bizarre obsession with him from some WB execs or something, otherwise I can't understand how he keeps getting the most important movies of the DCU.

I don't think BvS –the extended cut anyways– is a bad movie, it's a solid 6.5 for me. The problem is, a 6.5 is not enough for a movie so big, it's in fact absolutely terrible. I'm expecting 6.5s from Suicide Squad or Ant-Man movies, not Batman vs Superman or the first movie of the DCU (Man of Steel).

He's not as terrible as people make it seem, he's just alright, and alright is not enough to be the main person behind the foundation of the DCU. He had his chance with Man of Steel, which ended up being an okay 6/10 movie, just like the rest of his work. Watchmen is also a 6/10 to me. He's just a 6/10 director honestly, and he proved it again with BvS. Why he is being hired for movies beyond Justice League is the baffling question here.

His track record has been middling at best so far, he's responsible for the unnecessary gritty and dark tone of the DCU –which seems to be going away, fortunately– and the mediocre set up for the cinematic universe and the dissapointing deliver of one of the most anticipated comic movies ever with two of the most popular superheroes ever.

I mean look at Civil War, it does everything BvS tries to do in a much more satisfactory way while also being an enjoyable film that is entertaining, has good pacing and great, evenly spread action. It also manages to introduce two important characters in a more efficient way than BvS could ever do WW.
It's also more mature than BvS despite the latter suffering for the tryhard gritty and dark approach trademark of Snyder. Sure, the villain is terrible as usual, but the movie more than makes up for it.

All in all, his directing skills are decent at the very best, passable the rest of the time –most of the time. He's not fit for such an important role, how the hell did he get not one, but three origin movies of the most important DC characters? Especially after the meh that MoS was.

Nobody wanted to see a pseudo-horror alien invasion and Clark Kent snapping Zod's neck in a Superman movie, that's not how you build a comic universe. Does this mean Marvel's way is the only correct way to do it? No, but this "no jokes, everything's dark" approach certainly isn't the way. The Nolan trilogy is lighter in tone than what Snyder tries to do, for god's sake.

The same way nobody wanted to see Batman killing people left and right and fighting Superman for a completely stupid reason.

Apparently someone at WB decided to make JL lighter –at least the trailer looks that way–, and even if I'm 100% sure the lighter elements will feel superforced because Snyder just can't make worlds that aren't all gloomy and depressive, I think it's a step in the right direction, but they really need to get rid of him.

There's one thing he's very, very good at though, and that's the action in these movies. He's absolutely unparalleled when it comes to action in comic movies. Like, the Smallville fight in Man of Steel is probably one of the best superhero fights ever, it's utterly awesome and the Doomsday fight in BvS was spectacular too. Not to mention the Arkham fight in the warehouse.

He has proven numerous times he's godlike when it comes to action scenes, but at the sime time he's been exposed as a poor storyteller one too many times.

Can't they just have him as some kind of adviser for the action scenes while some competent director does the rest? We've had enough of him, at this point I'm more excited to see another director's take on the universe with Wonder Woman than I am to see Justice League.

It seems to me though that Warner keeps him because of their absurd, stubborn position of being "more serious" than Marvel, considering they got James freaking Wan for Aquaman. Civil War and WS proved that you can make serious comic movies without being overly dramatic, colorless and depressant.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Code:
[URL="http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2016"]8	Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice	WB	$330,360,194	4,256	$166,007,347	4,242	3/25	6/16[/URL]
 

Montresor

Member
Well Zack Snyder is quite frankly an incredible director. He has a knack for stylish visuals and impactful action scenes. Action scenes that really provide that oomph.

Watchmen in particular is a masterpiece in my opinion. And I really liked Batman v Superman.
 

Slaythe

Member
Because NOBODY of talent wants this garbage universe (what they made of it not the comics).

It would need a reboot and it's too late to reboot it just now.

And nobody wants to handle this debacle.

So the smartest thing to do is keep the guy who knows everything about and hope they can course correct.


Now the real thing that makes no sense, is that every single movie has readings, greenlits, early screenings...

It is baffling that they can't fix the movies because they MUST KNOW it's vomit long before it gets released, and many movies are fixed along the way.

It also means Snyder isn't the sole problem, whoever is in charge IS the problem because they're not using their tools properly.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Most of my IRL friends loved Suicide Squad, I didn't get it. I haven't seen any of his recent movies though, so I can't really say.
 

Lulubop

Member
Well Zack Snyder is quite frankly an incredible director. He has a knack for stylish visuals and impactful action scenes. Action scenes that really provide that oomph.

Watchmen in particular is a masterpiece in my opinion. And I really liked Batman v Superman.

Incredible? Are you that one YouTube guy?
 
Sir we need to fire Zack Snyder
- why?
Sir, the movies are terrible
- do they make money?
yes sir but i think this will have long lasting impact on the value of.....
- CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF MY MONEY
..
 
Well Zack Snyder is quite frankly an incredible director. He has a knack for stylish visuals and impactful action scenes. Action scenes that really provide that oomph.

Watchmen in particular is a masterpiece in my opinion. And I really liked Batman v Superman.

Hear Hear. I get the divided opinion on BvS but Man of steel is criminally hated. It's a damn good superhero movie.
 

Breads

Banned
His movies make money, no? He is still seen as a worthy direction to throw money at with the expectation that more will return.
 

highrider

Banned
He delivers on time, is flexible to demands and the films make money.

Yeah, and while I agree with most criticism I hear about Snyder, he's a very good action director. That one scene in Batman vs. Superman where batman fights the big group of henchmen pretty much made every other batman fight scene in all the previous films look like shit. Snyder seems to understand the action style these characters should have better than others. But the editing and story..
 
He delivers on time, is flexible to demands and the films make money.

That, plus he's supposedly well liked on a personal level and actors enjoy working with him.

Also, it's Warners. Wachowskis got a $175mil budget for Jupiter Ascending after Speed Racer and Cloud Atlas.
 
Well Zack Snyder is quite frankly an incredible director. He has a knack for stylish visuals and impactful action scenes. Action scenes that really provide that oomph.

Watchmen in particular is a masterpiece in my opinion. And I really liked Batman v Superman.

He can certainly make things look pretty and stylish, and frame things well. Watchmen is my favourite film of his, but I'm yet to see him make something genuinely great.

One of the things about him that pissed me off was how little he improved on the many mistakes going from Man of Steel to BvS. It's like George Lucas from Phantom Menace to Attack of the Clones; you're well aware of the criticisms, the errors in filmmaking and the dumb decisions, and yet you come back 3+ years later with a sequel and it still has all the same goddamn problems.
 

Nev

Banned
Do you guys honestly believe BvS or MoS made that much money because of their quality as movies and not because of the huge brands attached to them?

I mean even Suicide Squad made a lot of money with a Batman and Joker cameo.

What was the box office for Sucker Punch again? Yeah.
 

Tobor

Member
The argument that he makes money is flawed. He doesn't make enough money.

Batman v Superman was an absolute lock for a billion + in worldwide box office. It underperformed and finished at 800 million, a disappointment for a franchise of that caliber.

Snyder left somewhere between 200 and 400 million on the table. He should have been fired. If Justice League similarly underperforms, he will be.
 

Lebron

Member
WB generally supports directors who at least were consistent with them (money wise) or were in the past.

See David Yates or Nolan or The Wachowskis sisters.
 

Firemind

Member
He can certainly make things look pretty and stylish, and frame things well. Watchmen is my favourite film of his, but I'm yet to see him make something genuinely great.

One of the things about him that pissed me off was how little he improved on the many mistakes going from Man of Steel to BvS. It's like George Lucas from Phantom Menace to Attack of the Clones; you're well aware of the criticisms, the errors in filmmaking and the dumb decisions, and yet you come back 3+ years later with a sequel and it still has all the same goddamn problems.
Not enough quipping am I right?
 
I think the real question is why did they hang him out to dry with that disastrous theatrical cut. If they didn't want a three-hour movie they shouldn't have greenlighted a three-hour script. Don't film the thing and then butcher it for theaters. They should burn that theatrical version. It renders massive plot points totally incoherent.

The extended cut, however, is a pretty cool movie.
 

Tobor

Member
What it should have made is irrelevant. The point was his movies make money. Arguing "well they could have done this!" is silly. Any movie "could" have made more.

That is not how any business in existence works. Especially public companies. You set expectations and you better meet them.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
It really feels like there's a higher-up (or several) at WB that throws all their confidence behind any "hot" director after one big success, and then every subsequent project they continually double down on them regardless of the success of their last project.

See also: The Wachowskis' filmography.
 

IconGrist

Member
It really feels like there's a higher-up (or several) at WB that throws all their confidence behind any "hot" director after one big success, and then every subsequent project they continually double down on them regardless of the success of their last project.

See also: The Wachowskis' filmography.

What one big success belongs to Snyder?
 

Nev

Banned
Interesting video about Zack Snyders "style" and flaws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Cy_Qlh7VM

This was spot on. One thing I forgot to mention is how shallow and hard to believe his universe –and the DCU by extension– is. Not only are they grim and depressive, they're very unrealistic, and that's kind of a huge fuck-up when you aim for realism.

Again, Civil War happens in a believable world, it feels real. On the other hand you have the Snyder DCU which feels like an excuse for the superheroes to fight on. There's zero credibility to Gotham, Metropolis and the people alledgedly living there.

It really is style over substance.
 
I think WB likes to cultivate a strong stable of directors who they can rely on and vice versa. That's why the studio had / has strong relationships with directors like Kubrick, Eastwood, Nolan, Miller, etc. I'm not saying that Snyder is anywhere near their level of course but when 300 hit, his style was perceived (rightly or not) as being fresh and unique and the movie made a ton of money while being rated R.

He then became a WB director who had the studios' trust. And once that happens, they can forgive a couple of duds like they did for their other directors (Eastood has had plenty), they're just waiting for the next potential hit. They gave him the Superman reboot because why not and while it was divisive, it made money and did well in territories where Superman used to be disliked. WB would definitely have dropped him after BvS but Justice League was two weeks away from shooting so it was too late. As for Justice League 2, I think the odds of Snyder actually directing it are very low.

The sad thing for me is that I like / love most of Snyder's films except for BvS (haven't seen Sucker Punch). And now my hopes for Justice League couldn't be any lower.
 

Azerare

Member
I agree with you OP. He does good work with action scenes but he's subpar at best when it comes to world building and developing a good story.
 
Do you guys honestly believe BvS or MoS made that much money because of their quality as movies and not because of the huge brands attached to them?

I mean even Suicide Squad made a lot of money with a Batman and Joker cameo.

What was the box office for Sucker Punch again? Yeah.

Yep, keep that dream alive, baby. Keep the dream alive.
 

YesManKablaam

Neo Member
Strangely, I am completely onboard with Warner's apparent decision to have the DC Cinematic Universe be director-led, as opposed to Marvel's uniformity beneath Kevin Feige. Marvel's films are consistently good and bankable, but with regards to my own tastes I find them predictable and ultimately forgettable. Serviceable blockbuster action which I forget about fairly quickly.

However, the choices that Warner are making with their directors are bizarre, and then after making said choices they appear to change their minds and insist on studio interference. Theatrical cuts of both BvS and Suicide Squad being messy as all hell (though the fuller version aren't much better) and the fact that Zach Snyder and David Ayer aren't necessarily sound choices for big mainstream blockbusters. The traits they're most renowned for exist within niche areas of film, and giving them the reigns to mammoth IP's is ballsy and foolish.

Whether we like it or not these are comic book properties, and they will always have an association with younger audiences. I'm all for experimenting with properties, exploring new ideas and all that, but when these are being made in the most expensive artistic medium you're going to have to compromise and broaden your audience. You can't make serious bank off a Batman flick that kids and families are unable to see, and that's the prime audience for merch sales and tie-ins with other brands. Or rather, you can make that kind of film, but don't expect to make it for $200,000,000 and reap in the profit.
 

jph139

Member
Hear Hear. I get the divided opinion on BvS but Man of steel is criminally hated. It's a damn good superhero movie.

Man, I just can't agree with that. BvS, underneath all the shlock, had some actual interesting ideas and concepts. MoS is just painfully, dreadfully uninteresting - the film's structure intentionally guts it of any drama or introspection whenever something pops up.

BvS, with a tighter script and some fiddling, gets frustratingly close to a good movie. MoS could never have been anything better than it is.
 

kamineko

Does his best thinking in the flying car
Three iconic DC characters in the same big-budget, live action film? Ed Wood could have made a profitable film.

To Wood's credit, he would have made a more memorable and charming film.

Snyder has a great eye, but his bleached-out, cold sunlight, gritty, this-is-for-grownups-guys schtick is pretty tired. He needs a strong producer, editor, and writer to leaven his one-note, joyless approach.

He needs to be part of a balanced team, or we will just keep getting the same thing again and again.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
He delivers on time, is flexible to demands and the films make money.

This.

There's a reason guys like Yates and Snyder can crank out big films back to back stress free, and the Whedon's cry about how tough it is.

Studios will take someone like Yates any day. Fucker had two blockbusters out this year and did press for one while editing the other.
 
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