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Kimishima considering 3DS successor

Aaron

Member
So nothing has changed. 3DS is back up in case switch fails.
No. Nothing really has changed. Nintendo isn't living the fanboy dream of unifying their console and handheld divisions. Their next handheld might be running a similar OS to the Switch but it will not be based on the Switch. They're being as clear as any business can on these points.
 

EloquentM

aka Mannny
No. Nothing really has changed. Nintendo isn't living the fanboy dream of unifying thier console and handheld divisions. Their next handheld might be running a similar OS to the Switch but it will not be based on the Switch. They're being as clear as any business can on these points.
This narrative is so fucking stupid in the light of gaf blowing a gasket about kishimas comments but largely ignoring the fact that iwata said this was going to be the case going forward in early 2015.
 

bachikarn

Member
No. Nothing really has changed. Nintendo isn't living the fanboy dream of unifying their console and handheld divisions. Their next handheld might be running a similar OS to the Switch but it will not be based on the Switch. They're being as clear as any business can on these points.

If the 3DS successor comes out next year or the year after, what exactly is going to be the distinguishing difference between form factor? Slightly worse graphics? 2 screens?

At best, it would be the difference between an iPhone and an iPad, and there would be no reason not to make it a universal platform.
 
Yeah, at this point, it's straight denial. This is the umpteenth time Nintendo is sticking hard to the switch being a home console that will not replace the 3DS as I've been saying. Thought this isn't about me being right, I just think that it's very clear that this item wasn't mean to replace an entire successful handheld and pretty much confirms that Nintendo is not done with the dedicated form factor that they excel at the most in this industry.

The switch is too complex and too much money to be a dedicated handheld which is why it is a console at heart and a mobile device second. But if this is true, which I believe it is, this is the device I actually would be much more happier to see. The 3DS is really starting to show its age and having a new successor to that would be awesome. Let's home for the switch to be successful first so they can make that decision when the time comes.
 

Aaron

Member
This narrative is so fucking stupid in the light of gaf blowing a gasket about kishimas comments but largely ignoring the fact that iwata said this was going to be the case going forward in early 2015.
Iwata's comments were about unifying software development, not unifying platforms.

If the 3DS successor comes out next year or the year after, what exactly is going to be the distinguishing difference between form factor? Slightly worse graphics? 2 screens?

At best, it would be the difference between an iPhone and an iPad, and there would be no reason not to make it a universal platform.
'No reason not to' has been applied a lot to Nintendo over the years, and they still find a reason. I mean there's no reason your VC purchases wouldn't carry over to the Switch, but I really don't think they will. Nintendo likes to tailor thier consoles and handhelds to the games they plan on creating, and basically pay lip service to everything else. So I can see them do a focused gimmick for their their next handheld that prevents it from having a clear ipad to iPhone relationship with the Switch.
 

EloquentM

aka Mannny
Iwata's comments were about unifying software development, not unifying platforms.
oh ok let move your goal posts.
Iwata:

Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.

For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.
looks like they're trying to make similar consoles in architecture by unifying the hanheld and console hardware divisions.

No. Nothing really has changed. Nintendo isn't living the fanboy dream of unifying their console and handheld divisions. Their next handheld might be running a similar OS to the Switch but it will not be based on the Switch. They're being as clear as any business can on these points.
So nothing you said here in fact makes sense based on the context iwata gave.
 
Again people, the"3DS Successor" will probably just end up being a smaller, cheaper handheld only Switch with the controls built into the system. They'd be able to sell that for somewhere around 179 (or less depending on when it released) for a profit and it wouldn't split their software teams.

Right when 3DS is selling so well that it is facing supply issue, and they are launching Switch in a month?

why?
The 3DS isn't exactly selling amazing, the supply issues are because it sold more than they expected, it was still one of the worst years for the system and comes nowhere near what it should be selling.
 
Yeah, at this point, it's straight denial. This is the umpteenth time Nintendo is sticking hard to the switch being a home console that will not replace the 3DS as I've been saying. Thought this isn't about me being right, I just think that it's very clear that this item wasn't mean to replace an entire successful handheld and pretty much confirms that Nintendo is not done with the dedicated form factor that they excel at the most in this industry.

The switch is too complex and too much money to be a dedicated handheld which is why it is a console at heart and a mobile device second. But if this is true, which I believe it is, this is the device I actually would be much more happier to see. The 3DS is really starting to show its age and having a new successor to that would be awesome. Let's home for the switch to be successful first so they can make that decision when the time comes.
Given Iwata's comments about wanting to make handhelds and consoles like brothers and sisters in the same family. Also specifically referencing brands such as the iPhone/iPad brand. I could see them releasing a Switch Mini in 2018. Uses the same cartridges as Switch and can share 90% of the same library. Still connects to the Switch home. Have the same kind of screen with the same features but scaled down in size and resolution. Doesn't support Joycon attachments but has the same control scheme as Switch. Comes with a Dual Screen Clamshell Switch attachment advertised in a similar fashion to what the joycons are to the Switch. Sell in two packs one handheld only going for $150-$200, the other pack with the console part as well for $250. Launch it Holiday season 2018-Spring 2019 with the new Animal Crossing and it should do well.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Again people, the"3DS Successor" will probably just end up being a smaller, cheaper handheld only Switch with the controls built into the system. They'd be able to sell that for somewhere around 179 (or less depending on when it released) for a profit and it wouldn't split their software teams.

Why would they want to remove the TV feature that badly? Could still sell people docks separately with a smaller, cost-reduced model. Those docks are mostly just a pass-through, that's almost pure profit. How could they not want that?

Also, pulling numbers out of thin air is really pointless, especially as costs are going to vary greatly with time, you don't know what it'll cost. The system is high tech enough that it has a solid Nvidia SoC and it still needs a cooling fan, we have no idea what the costs are...and about the controllers...Nintendo wants to be able to sell those separately too. They probably aren't in a rush to physically attach them to a later model.
 

Charadis

Member
If the 3DS successor comes out next year or the year after, what exactly is going to be the distinguishing difference between form factor? Slightly worse graphics? 2 screens?

At best, it would be the difference between an iPhone and an iPad, and there would be no reason not to make it a universal platform.

2 screens, backwards compatibility with a long line of cartridge-based games, and the big one - glasses-less 3D.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Again people, the"3DS Successor" will probably just end up being a smaller, cheaper handheld only Switch with the controls built into the system. They'd be able to sell that for somewhere around 179 (or less depending on when it released) for a profit and it wouldn't split their software teams.


The 3DS isn't exactly selling amazing, the supply issues are because it sold more than they expected, it was still one of the worst years for the system and comes nowhere near what it should be selling.

Selling amazing meaning its surpass the stocks that they are able to manufacture now.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
2 screens, backwards compatibility with a long line of cartridge-based games, and the big one - glasses-less 3D.

I did love the 3D, but I have a feeling that the use of the cool parallax effect will be something lost to time.
 
Why would they want to remove the TV feature that badly? Could still sell people docks separately with a smaller, cost-reduced model. Those docks are mostly just a pass-through, that's almost pure profit. How could they not want that?

Also, pulling numbers out of thin air is really pointless, especially as costs are going to vary greatly with time. You don't know that. The system is high tech enough that it has a solid Nvidia SoC and it still needs a cooling fan, we have no idea what the costs are...and about the controllers...Nintendo wants to be able to sell those separately too. They probably aren't in a rush to physical attach them to a later model.

A handheld only Switch could still be compatible with docks...
It makes way more sense financially and for their development teams for their more budget friendly device to be just a cheaper Switch.
The SoC isn't that expensive and the fan is for when the system is docked, release the handheld only switch in a year or 2 and they could have the SoC on a smaller node and it probably wouldn't even need a fan at all. It's pretty clear that a lot of what is driving up the cost past 200 is the tech that isn't mandatory.
Make the system smaller with a lower quality LCD screen, have no dock or Joycons, remove HD rumble and the IR camera, have only one set of motion control tech in the device and the price would come way down even now, let alone in a year or two.
Selling amazing meaning its surpass the stocks that they are able to manufacture now.
It surpassed their current production because they weren't making a whole lot...
 
2 screens, backwards compatibility with a long line of cartridge-based games, and the big one - glasses-less 3D.
Nintendo backed off pushing 3D a long time ago. I don't think it will come back unless as a different revision like XL, 2DS and New! for the 3DS. However, like I said earlier I expect the Switch as a family of hardware with different forms but a shared library. The original Switch will be like an XL version of the handheld Switch with a different feature in replacement of the joycons such as Dual screens. I also wouldn't hold out hope for physical 3DS/DS backwards compatibility.
 
It's probably wait and see. When a Nintendo home console has failed, the handheld has picked up the slack. If they let the 3DS die with no successor, and the Switch also fails, they have nothing to fall back on. So depending on how the Switch is doing after year 2, I bet a decision will be made on whether or not they'll release another dedicated handheld. If the Switch is a failure, they'll definitely release a new handheld.
 

Seventy70

Member
I hope they do this. They need a dedicated handheld device. I personally don't see the Switch as a true handheld. It's too large and the battery isn't good enough. It seems most of the games for it are more of the console type. I really want them to keep the two screens and make a dedicated handheld that isn't quite as powerful, but is very functional, small, and sturdy.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
A handheld only Switch could still be compatible with docks...
It makes way more sense financially and for their development teams for their more budget friendly device to be just a cheaper Switch.
The SoC isn't that expensive and the fan is for when the system is docked, release the handheld only switch in a year or 2 and they could have the SoC on a smaller node and it probably wouldn't even need a fan at all. It's pretty clear that a lot of what is driving up the cost past 200 is the tech that isn't mandatory.
Make the system smaller with a lower quality LCD screen, have no dock or Joycons, remove HD rumble and the IR camera, have only one set of motion control tech in the device and the price would come way down even now, let alone in a year or two.

If it's compatible with docks that's not handheld-only......

Just say a cost-reduced model that doesn't come with a dock, you're not talking about a handheld restricted model.

Not buying your unsourced claims about cost. The system has not released, so there's no teardown out there. Needless to say, it's not selling at a loss right now, but it is $299 USD. We could be talking about a $250 bill of materials, etc. We just don't know. As for cost reducing by manufacturing on a smaller node, well, Nintendo rarely ever
do that in one gen. Perhaps DSi and New 3DS did such a thing, but those were somewhat enhanced models. Otherwise, only the Wii got a die shrink from Nintendo, and even then, only one. They make sense in the modern era, but don't expect it to happen in a rush.

Yes, they could return to a smaller TN screen (instead of the gorgeous 6.2 IPS screen we've seen), but I'm not buying for a second that they would want to get rid of joycons. If it's anything like Wii remotes, different colours and special editions will release. They can't change how the system plays, so the motion tech can't change.... Think about it for a second, those specially designed games would already be on store shelves, clearly marked as Switch games. They are not going to be marked as unplayable on a cost-reduced model... Nintendo can't really drop that feature and it's probably dirt cheap anyways, contrary to the estimate you have in your head.
 
I hope they do this. They need a dedicated handheld device. I personally don't see the Switch as a true handheld. It's too large and the battery isn't good enough. It seems most of the games for it are more of the console type. I really want them to keep the two screens and make a dedicated handheld that isn't quite as powerful, but is very functional, small, and sturdy.

Battery is just as good as 3ds or vita. Its okay but not great.
 
I hope they do this. They need a dedicated handheld device. I personally don't see the Switch as a true handheld. It's too large and the battery isn't good enough. It seems most of the games for it are more of the console type. I really want them to keep the two screens and make a dedicated handheld that isn't quite as powerful, but is very functional, small, and sturdy.

Nintendo wont split recources again.
The only realy handheld they might do is a Switch mini.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Nintendo wont split recources again.
The only realy handheld they might do is a Switch mini.

I think you're right regarding the topic of this thread, meaning a new system. However, they will be splitting resources by supporting mobile, and for the time being they will continue to split resources elsewhere too as they're in no rush to kill the 3DS. Can you blame them? The thing still sells software, software that doesn't require the same budget to make as HD titles.
 

Seventy70

Member
Battery is just as good as 3ds or vita. Its okay but not great.

I think the bigger problem for me are the games. We'll have to see how it plays out, but right now it seems the games end up feeling more console focused and less handheld focused. There seems to be a void left where DS games used to be. I think there's just a certain magic of making a specialized game on a dedicated handheld with portability in mind. I feel the limitations of a handheld device also can bring out some interesting innovations from developers. Right now I'm just worried that the software will end up feeling one sided or confused. It seems trying to make games that work as both as console and handheld would have to make some sacrifices.

In my mind, a handheld should be under powered. This way there's a uniqueness to the platform. Imagine having a high powered PC in a DS form factor. It just wouldn't be fun nor would we end up with the gems that came from 3/DS. Rather than upping the handheld specs, they should focus on other things (improving physical form factor, battery, sturdiness, price, etc.)
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
So nothing has changed. 3DS is back up in case switch fails.

How are people reading that?

It just sounds like standard business speak for 'we keep selling 3DS because it's cheap and parents can buy it for their kids, it is a totally different price point and market than switch'. That isn't '3DS as backup' it's just '3DS is cheap and different'

The second comment is to me a clear move away from any statement that could be xo stride as suggesting the 3DS line will continue. They took care to specifically say they don't mean a 3DS based successor, just looking at all options generally. Again the usual business speak you'd expect from a company needing to hedge bets and simultaneously not stop people buying 3DSes or switches.

That second quote is what they should have said in the first place (and maybe they did in Japanese?)
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
A handheld only Switch could still be compatible with docks...
It makes way more sense financially and for their development teams for their more budget friendly device to be just a cheaper Switch.
The SoC isn't that expensive and the fan is for when the system is docked, release the handheld only switch in a year or 2 and they could have the SoC on a smaller node and it probably wouldn't even need a fan at all. It's pretty clear that a lot of what is driving up the cost past 200 is the tech that isn't mandatory.
Make the system smaller with a lower quality LCD screen, have no dock or Joycons, remove HD rumble and the IR camera, have only one set of motion control tech in the device and the price would come way down even now, let alone in a year or two.

It surpassed their current production because they weren't making a whole lot...

Well that doesn't really change the point that it exceeded their expectation...
 
Switch Lite/mini/S etc

- Plays all Switch games

- Same form factor as a 3DS XL

- Top section has a multi touch screen the same size as a 3DS XL

- Bottom section has the buttons & an NFC reader where the other screen would be.

- TV out cable

- You can use the handheld as a controller while connected to the TV.

- Compatible wirelessly with joy cons and pro controller.

- Same HD rumble and gyro as the pro controller

- Table top mode simply laying it down and lifting the top screen up

- If Switch isn't successful they can call it something else and say it's BC with Switch software
 
If it's compatible with docks that's not handheld-only......

Just say a cost-reduced model that doesn't come with a dock, you're not talking about a handheld restricted model.

Not buying your unsourced claims about cost. The system has not released, so there's no teardown out there. Needless to say, it's not selling at a loss right now, but it is $299 USD. We could be talking about a $250 bill of materials, etc. We just don't know. As for cost reducing by manufacturing on a smaller node, well, Nintendo rarely ever
do that in one gen. Perhaps DSi and New 3DS did such a thing, but those were somewhat enhanced models. Otherwise, only the Wii got a die shrink from Nintendo, and even then, only one. They make sense in the modern era, but don't expect it to happen in a rush.

Yes, they could return to a smaller TN screen (instead of the gorgeous 6.2 IPS screen we've seen), but I'm not buying for a second that they would want to get rid of joycons. If it's anything like Wii remotes, different colours and special editions will release. They can't change how the system plays, so the motion tech can't change.... Think about it for a second, those specially designed games would already be on store shelves, clearly marked as Switch games. They are not going to be marked as unplayable on a cost-reduced model... Nintendo can't really drop that feature and it's probably dirt cheap anyways, contrary to the estimate you have in your head.

I think the joycons will be too big for the handheld especially for portability factors. I can't see a ton of games relying on 100% motion, it will still have gyro support. Even Arms is playable with buttons and sticks. You wouldn't be 100% locked out you would just need to get a console port. Perhaps they will explore a similar gimmick to Switch but with handheld iterations. Base Switch Mini has a similar setup to 3DS bottom screen with a much larger screen though. It comes with a secondary screen, single stick and set of 4 buttons that attaches to the base system resembling a 2DS like setup. You can detach the second screen and give it to a friend to play wireless local multiplayer. When you are done playing with the system you can detach it and close it like a clamshell from the opposing end.
 

Branduil

Member
It's amazing people are still panicking about this. Any future Nintendo handheld will be the Switch hardware in miniature form. It really makes zero sense to assume otherwise if you think about it for more than 5 seconds. There's zero point to Nintendo basing their new "home" console on mobile technology if it's not going to be, you know, mobile. If Switch fails it won't be because it used Tegra, so why would they not re-use the same chipset? In the absolute worst case scenario of Switch bombing like Wii U, the new handheld would just be the same hardware with a rebrand, exactly like the Wii was a rebrand of the Gamecube hardware.
 

Chumley

Banned
If this is true they might as well declare the Switch dead right now.

They flat out do not have the first party support to sell it primarily as a home console up against the PS4 and XONE. They have to go hard on handheld or else it's a fucking wash.
 

Speely

Banned
Why would Nintendo release a handheld that didn't use the cutting-edge, industry-leading mobile tech that they're already using for the Switch? Are people really freaking out over the possibility of a whole other ecosystem right now? Why in the world would they use any other architecture when they have the best portable performance at a reasonable price point now???

It's not going to happen. Any hardware Nintendo releases in the next five years will use the Tegra architecture. Hell, releasing a smaller handheld-only device using the Switch SoC would be a great way to get a lot of 3DS gamers who didn't go in on a Switch into the ecosystem. I feel like they are going to analyze the numbers for the Switch's first year and then commit to the next step in their "family of devices." If that happens to be a dedicated handheld, then that's what it will be, but it will 100% use the same SoC.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
So this wasn't true after all? :lol

It's true in that they said that they believe the 3DS can coexist with the Switch just fine because there is a demand for such a product and that they are always thinking about future hardware.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I think the joycons will be too big for the handheld especially for portability factors. I can't see a ton of games relying on 100% motion, it will still have gyro support. Even Arms is playable with buttons and sticks. You wouldn't be 100% locked out you would just need to get a console port.

Look, if there are any games that do require it, they're unlikely to be marked clearly on the title's front covers as such in prior to this thing releasing. Nintendo has no real way of setting aside certain games as incompatible in order to save a few cents in the future. They haven't put anything on front covers regarding incompatibility.

We're talking about an extremely cheap component that they're probably not worried about anyways....

I don't see it, either it's a portable Switch, or it's not a Switch and you can't milk cows, for example.
 

Falchion

Member
A Switch mini with better battery life, etc but still docks would actually be really nice and it wouldn't piss off everyone who bought the OG model since they wouldn't be missing out on anything except a smaller, more portable version.
 

Morokh

Member
If this is even remotely true it doesn't make any sense at all and undermines one of the most exciting aspects of the Switch.

For now I'll just put that in the PR-talk bag besides 'third pillar'.
 

Peltz

Member
Yeah, at this point, it's straight denial. This is the umpteenth time Nintendo is sticking hard to the switch being a home console that will not replace the 3DS as I've been saying. Thought this isn't about me being right, I just think that it's very clear that this item wasn't mean to replace an entire successful handheld and pretty much confirms that Nintendo is not done with the dedicated form factor that they excel at the most in this industry.

Nintendo also said the NX was not supposed to replace the Wii U and look how that turned out. You're the one in denial bro.
 

brad-t

Member
I would really love to know if Nintendo did some kind of research to discover whether portable consoles were more likely to be used at home or during commutes.
 

i-Jest

Member
Time will tell. The thing with Nintendo is they don't make the most obvious moves. If the Switch performs well enough in the market then they really have no reason to continue the 3DS line. If the plan all along was to make a companion device to the Switch then whatever. Hardcore will buy it, and if game line up from 1st, 2nd, and 3rd parties is solid then all the more reason.


I see this as Nintendo purposelly throwing PR spin to its rivals. Obviously the logical choice is Nintendo will abandon 3DS after a year or two, but by constantly reiteratinf the 3DS successor in every PR, seems Nintendl can't keep a secret that 3DS will be put out to pasture someday, the more denial, the more confirmation that they have no immediate plans for a 3DS successor

Neat mind game. This could easily be the case too; again though, time will tell.
 

asagami_

Banned
I would really love to know if Nintendo did some kind of research to discover whether portable consoles were more likely to be used at home or during commutes.

Actually the 3DS "knows" when you move, so I think it's possible. Just mix the data with the activity log and you have the results.
 

brad-t

Member
Pretty much. All this proves is that Nintendo will keep 3DS around until they can drop Switch's price and release a handheld only SKU.

It doesn't even mean that. All it means is that they recognize the 3DS currently fills a market need that the Switch doesn't, and that they don't want to give the impression that they're killing their still-for-sale product. Anything else is just speculative extrapolation.
 
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