i'm glad that you're so up to date on the gender and sexuality of fictional mythological characters
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
New Zelda Breath of the Wild trailer
- Thread starter Skeletos311
- Start date
i'm glad that you're so up to date on the gender and sexuality of fictional mythological characters
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Nothing's stopping you from buying a Switch and Zelda, and then selling both when you're done with it. You can probably make back most of your money in the process. Think of it as an extended rental.
2Smashed4U
Banned
This game looks incredible. That's pretty obvious.
So with that out of the way, goddamn, I don't think there's anything worse that has happened to the Zelda series than Nintendo capitulating to fanboys and creating a "Zelda lore" that is truly a bunch of "making it up as we go along" bullshit.
The games have never really felt remotely connected, and that stupid timeline is the most pointless "mythology" ever. Just let them exist as standalone games and stories, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
So with that out of the way, goddamn, I don't think there's anything worse that has happened to the Zelda series than Nintendo capitulating to fanboys and creating a "Zelda lore" that is truly a bunch of "making it up as we go along" bullshit.
The games have never really felt remotely connected, and that stupid timeline is the most pointless "mythology" ever. Just let them exist as standalone games and stories, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Shit, I'd buy it. I've been wanting to play Doom since its launch but I don't own any of the platforms it's available for.
xochipiltontli
Member
The Guard video looks to be Switch footage, but I think the Run/Live videos are Wii U footage. There's a lot of jaggies in those last two, Death Mountain's cloud is shaped the same as it is in previous Wii U footage, the draw distance is worse, and the frame rate is atrocious in a lot of scenes.
Lynd7
Member
Nintendo should add contradictions going forward still, I think playing up the legend angle would be better, no one knows for sure how these things played out and are retellings passed down throughout the generations.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
What game states this??
They've always attempted to connect at least the mainline games. Of course they "make it up as they go along", it's not as if they have game ideas and stories planned out exactly decades in advance, but there's always a sense of continuity even if each game works perfectly fine standalone. Seriously, why are some people allergic to the idea of a timeline? Why is it 'pointless' other than you not liking it? I enjoy having games that relate to each other, whether direct or indirect.
Why do you hate fun?
Also they've been connected since day one, just obviously not planned. Stop spreading this myth.
I must've missed it earlier, but surprised to not see more people talking about the
But back to game in general, I really want to get rid of that haze filter on almost every shot. I mean it needs to be there sometimes, but it just seems overused and over saturated.
Windwaker Deku Scrubs floating in the air around the master sword. I guess I missed the thread where people figured this out? I am hopeful that this game is in direct line to WW and that's one of the seeds we planted.
But back to game in general, I really want to get rid of that haze filter on almost every shot. I mean it needs to be there sometimes, but it just seems overused and over saturated.
2Smashed4U
Banned
Because, as I said, the games don't truly feel connected (at all.) The timeline is a flimsy, not even half-baked attempt to create a connecting narrative to games that don't need one, and doesn't add anything to them at all, beyond giving fanboys some fodder for online discussions and arguments.
They clearly disregard it at will and don't truly care about it when creating a new game beyond saying "oh yeah, it comes after [this game] I guess"
But it doesn't actually add anything of substance to the games themselves at all.
Hyrule historia has a manga at the end of it that says pretty much this. I also remember there being something about the original link being a criminal in prison, so take this at canon at your own peril
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Gonna have to look this up in mine as I genuinely have no idea where this was stated. Fuck the historia if true tho.Hyrule historia has a manga at the end of it that says pretty much this. I also remember there being something about the original link being a criminal in prison, so take this at canon at your own peril
Jaded Alyx
Member
Flat out false. If you truly believe this, you haven't played many of them or you've not been paying attention.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Lol the koroks? Where were you during E3?
Anton Sugar
Member
Even so, I don't see why the Hero has to be a man. Women *can* fall in love with other women, of course. They're supposed to be reincarnated, not actual descendants from a blood line, right?
Considering almost every zelda game is either a prequel or sequel to another, I find it hard to ignore the extremely obvious connections. It's obviously wasn't all planned out and is made up as they go along (which is how most series are made), but that doesn't invalidate the connections.
I mean, I dunno about the mangas truly being canon, especially the Skyward Sword manga, but the Skyward Sword game mentions how "those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero are eternally bound to this curse". Nothing about that indicates Link is stuck as a male spirit.
Interestingly enough though, Zelda is the only one truly tied to her gender. At the end of the day, there doesn't seem to be any explicit, concrete rules forbidding them from ever making Link a female. They just simply don't want to. People will hide behind the shaky lore, but it pretty much comes down to that. Which is fine, but I wish the developers would've said that instead lol
Joeshabadoo
Member
fuck right off with this
The problem is, They made female link. People complained that it was a side character. They complained it wasnt the same actual main link character but female. They complained that she wasnt her own character. Even if you make a zelda game where there is a main character called link and its a girl, people will complain its lazy gender swapping. If you make a zelda game where zelda is the protagonist, people complain that they wont make link female. I don't think theres a winnable scenario here for nintendo.
That having been said, I think if not in this game, then probably in the next, you will be able to play as a female link or zelda at some point in the story. And I also think people will still find a way to complain about it.
That having been said, I think if not in this game, then probably in the next, you will be able to play as a female link or zelda at some point in the story. And I also think people will still find a way to complain about it.
It's the one shot manga I think, which are all non-canon and loosely interpret the games. They're fun for a read and characterization, but I doubt Nintendo seriously considers them when designing the mythos
This game is gonna be awesome.
What the fuck is this gif?
Linkle? That's not female Link. As you said, that's a side character, in a spin-off game no less. Of course no one would be satisfied by that. A mainline entry game, or at least one that basically is one, that stars Linkle has potential as well.
As for a "winnable scenario", people complain about stuff no matter what you do. That being said, a playable Zelda would probably be the easiest way to placate everyone, even those that prefer a female character that gets to use the Master Sword and what not. As for female Link potentially being considered "lazy gender swapping", that would ultimately depend on the story they'd tell if they were to ever do that.
All I know is, if someone is the type of Zelda fan that they'd actually forgo a Zelda game because it stars a playable female character (Although maybe, just maybe, Zelda would be understandable if she played very differently than what we're used to), then that person is pretty lame, to put it lightly.
I'd argue it does. It was pretty impactful to see the sunken Hyrule kingdom in TWW, the Temple of Time entrance in Skyward Sword's Sealed Grounds and Twilight Princess's Lost Woods, the Master Sword pedestal in every game etc. because I enjoy seeing how one location I visited in another game has changed or been devastated in another.
Seeing Ocarina's ruined Temple of Time in Breath of the Wild, with the Song of Time playing in broken notes, is subtle storytelling that is made more impactful due to Breath of the Wild being an indirect sequel.
All of this can be done with the games having some level of connection to one another, whether near or far, and each game still has its own story due to how legends being passed down are muddled. There's a dramatic irony when players know exactly what happened but the world's characters done, and for people who don't like to get involved in the timeline (even though it's not that complicated, really...) it isn't really shoved in your face, and all the direct connections are explained in intros.
LowlySmokeGuy
Banned
I was thinking it looked very familiar too and it dawned on me that Penetrator from Demon's Souls does something very similar in his intro cutscene.
Maybe it's just a popular pose, but that was the first thing I thought of.
Yeah that's been a massive turn off for me, but the environments look absolutely incredible and I can't wait to explore further. An open Nintendo world is probably the only type of open world I can think of being bothered to explore fully, but I just know they'll make it worthwhile.
Twilight Princess
Member
I dont care what people say, link is a girl.
Zelda planted the flowers in the past. The idea came to me with this morning's footage:
Link's memories will be recovered by visiting the statues of Hylia. Each memory will be of an instance in which Zelda/Link went around Hyrule planting these flowers (perhaps 1 in each region? 18 memories, 16 known regions + the castle).
The memories will let the player deduce the location of each flower. Then in the present day Hyrule, the player seeks out these flowers.
Why they were planted and what they will do in the present is still indeterminable. But I think this is the mechanic that will develop the narrative. Works out like a bit of a puzzle as well. You recover the memory in one location, but reaching the actual setting of the memory in present day is how the overworld turns into the challenge - you may know where to go, but how you get yourself there is a different story.
Link's memories will be recovered by visiting the statues of Hylia. Each memory will be of an instance in which Zelda/Link went around Hyrule planting these flowers (perhaps 1 in each region? 18 memories, 16 known regions + the castle).
The memories will let the player deduce the location of each flower. Then in the present day Hyrule, the player seeks out these flowers.
Why they were planted and what they will do in the present is still indeterminable. But I think this is the mechanic that will develop the narrative. Works out like a bit of a puzzle as well. You recover the memory in one location, but reaching the actual setting of the memory in present day is how the overworld turns into the challenge - you may know where to go, but how you get yourself there is a different story.
Skittzo0413
Member
But the games have been connected intentionally from day one... almost all of them. Zelda 2 is a direct sequel to Zelda 1. Same exact Link. ALttP is explicitly stated to be a prequel to Zeldas 1 and 2, and OoT a prequel to that. Then MM, WW, and TP are all explicitly clear about being sequels to OoT. The timeline split is pretty strange but the games have always been connected.
I think the only ones which they sorta shoehorned into place were the Four Swords games. Everything else has a fairly explicit and intentional connection.
Yes, I think you may have figured it out. The Famitsu article also mentioned how Zelda is a curious girl who likes to explore ancient ruins.
This is a fascinating story mechanic that ends up being non-intrusive.
And it both encourages and rewards exploration, without forcing it. You could stumble upon a flower before discovering the corresponding memory, only to find out later that you can already check one off the list.
I imagine it will be at least a little bit difficult to A.) discern where in present-day Hyrule each flower is and B.) actually reach the flower once knowing where it is (Aonuma keeps stressing how we will have to plan our journeys ahead in order to reach particular places/vistas).
2Smashed4U
Banned
I'm speaking purely narratively, not thematically, which to me is really the only purpose a "timeline" serves.
It's not quite Final Fantasy where the only consistent things are Chocobos and summons and etc., but at the same time, they clearly do not design the games with timelines and what have you in mind at all, given that they willingly contradict them at a moments notice whenever they feel like it. Rather they make the games and then retroactively shoehorn them in wherever they can as a form of fan service.
Hell, Zelda games don't even really have the depth of story necessary to create a detailed and rich background and universe.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yeah I doubt it
2Smashed4U
Banned
Fair point, I suppose I should have articulated the point better, it's not that the games are not connected at all as they do obviously share a lot of common themes and key landmarks and symbols and all of that, it's just that Nintendo isn't really beholden to really any of it, and using the universe as an excuse as to why they can't do this or that in any given Zelda game is patently false, because they clearly are willing to do basically whatever they want with every new game that they make.
Good point. I definitely agree with you on that.
We got a game with trains to show how little they care about consistency.
We got 2 games where the gameworld is basically a gigantic sea because they wanted to make a game about boats and shit.
If they want the next game to be in space they will do it and find a way to connect it to the lore and everything.
They can, and absolutely WILL, do everything they feel like doing and will find a way to justify it with the narrative.
female Link is certainly not as damaging to the lore as flooding and destroying the whole land or putting magic train tracks everywhere for literally no reason.
Now I hope they pull a full on Hook. Where we have all these past memories in which we discover this close relationship with Zelda, exploring the world of Hyrule together and stuff. And then in the present time we finally meet the past Zelda again, but now she's all old and shit and then Link's eyes land on the granddaughter Zelda all young and not old as fuck. Cause that's not at all creepy and weird.
Link already is Peter Pan inspired in design. So why not go full bore. For Robin Williams and his love of Zelda and love of Wendy's granddaugther.
Skittzo0413
Member
Do we know how Hylians age? Maybe they live several hundred years, so she can still be the same-ish looking age after 100 years?
Milly Osworth
Member
Is it me or does Zelda have booty 🍑?
considering OoT, i think yes? haha
Skittzo0413
Member
I mean, it could be how like Tolkien-esque elves age. They grow up from kids normally but then live for hundreds/thousands of years as normal looking adults.
I'd say the fact that some Zelda games are set 100 years after others and they don't appear to reuse the same Zelda/Link (in those) might poke a big hole in that theory though.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
But... Barbie Horse Adventures already exists?
The math works better if I take into account that we can see three flowers in front of the Deku Tree. 3 flowers here in this region, and 15 flowers for the other 15 regions (including the Great Plateau). These three would be planted by Zelda when lodging the Master Sword in front of the tree after Link's presumed demise.
I imagine that at some point soon after departing the Plateau (presumably with some preliminary guidance given by Daphnes), the Main Story will split into two overarching but intertwining Quests.
One to learn about and tackle the Guardians (both giant and normal)
One to go around collecting memories -> collecting flowers
Completing both would put the player (and the world) in the ideal position to tackle Ganon at the end of the game.
The actual significance of the flowers I am still unable to determine. However, it may to be something that reconciles the fact that Zelda (and Link) found the need to do so 100 years ago. This would imply at least one of the following:
A.) The flowers were being put into place in order to deal with some immediate threat/issue
B.) The flowers were put into place as a precaution for a potential future threat/issue
B.) The flowers were put into place as a precaution for a potential future threat/issue
Alternatively, Zelda was unable to complete this quest in the past and Link now sets off to finish planting the remaining flowers in order to bring about whatever effect they were meant to have.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
She sounds really good in the spanish BotW dub so is good to know she also does great in Marco Polo.
flatearthpandas
Member
Less than one month. Oh man