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Edge #303 - Nintendo Switch

marc^o^ said:
Why always oppose these console to Switch? Every gamer has a PS4 or a PC. Switch won't replace these, but complement it.
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Hence why people feel it's too expensive and why the online subscription model is likely going to kill Switch online communities quick.

If it is indeed a complementary device then the complaints about pricing are even more valid.
 
Boy Wander said:
In the magazine the word OR is specifically used. Translation to AND in the summary causes the confusion.
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That's why you should buy the magazine to react instead of going by someone being nice enough to summarize something ;)

Jyester said:
Dude, I am genuinely interested to know why you took offense to my statement to the extent that my views are apparently holding back the medium. If you want to go that route, at least defend your positions.

My argument is that I generally will not buy a game at a premium price when it gets average to decent review scores. If I am to spend my time and money on something, I'd rather wage my bets on a game that is reviewed well. If this is an outlandish thought to you, I'm curious to know why.
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Oh, I'm not offended, nor do I think mine is a position that needs defending. Nor is yours, for that matter. Your money is yours to spend however you like.

I just can't agree with this statement of yours.

If a game scores in the 6-7 range however, I will personally not pay full price for it, knowing that it's a flawed product
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Most modern artforms accept opinions as opinions; a lower score/opinion doesn't mean the product is inherently/objectively flawed. Blade Runner was very poorly received when it came out; (leaving later versions out of this equation) was the movie flawed at release but became less flawed as time went on? Or was it just misunderstood by many reviewers?

The same can be said for many games. Just because it's a 6 for someone doesn't mean it can't be a 10 for you. Things appeal differently to different people. I hope people will think that way about games one day.
 
marc^o^ said:
Why always oppose these console to Switch? Every gamer has a PS4 or a PC. Switch won't replace these, but complement it.
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I don't :( Actually my plans this year is buy a Switch and PS3 Slim (and maybe a Vita, but I would love a few franchises from there were ported to Switch...), unless P5 and Trails of the Cold Steel 1 and 2 are announced for Switch xD

The thing is, there are a lot of gamers with other preferences. I'm more a JRPG and platformer gamer, and I like more a handheld console (and I don't travel with me 3DS in the pocket, I use a bag, so Switch is fine for me).

Actually, for me, PS4 still have a price high to me just to play a few JRPG are exclusive there (and Trails of Cold Steel 3 could be reach NA until 2018/2019), The Last Gurdian, Nioh and Bloodborne.
 
Cloukyo said:
This. I dunno about in America, but just because five is in the middle, doesn't mean it's an average score.

That's a D in the UK grading system at school, so why confuse it with scores?

No-one wants a game that is a 6, regardless of your grading scale. You want a game that is an 8 or above, 7 if you're a fan of that particular franchise and are willing to take one of its weaker entries.

The way this scoring system works is that 0-4 is an almost impossible score to give a game, 0-1 is basically a broken game, like Big Rigs, 3-5 is a game which is playable, but only if you got it for free. 5-10 is for games where you paid money and expect a game of some sort. Just like with exam scores, where 0-50% is "you need to do this subject again, because you basically didn't study it£" and 50-100 is the "how good are you at this subject" score range.

And Edge score of 6 doesn't mean they're using the "right scale", that some people are talking about. They're just quite notorious for having quite critical reviews. That was their reputation back in the day anyway? They don't give out that many 10s.
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Some people who posted before you say otherwise about 60% score in UK. Also, why are we grading media/video games like exam papers? What you described with your grading system is yet again a broken scale. It makes numbers below 5 damn near pointless. Like I said in my previous post, this is why 5 star scales are just better. They are better for people who don't want to accept that 6 means above average in certain game review scales. If those games had 3 stars out of 5 there wouldn't be as much of an uproar over it. Does anyone here really think the reviewers looked at those two games and considered them near-failures? If you're thinking 'no', then that means they used the review scale correctly. The only reason people think of them as notorious critics is because they constantly apply the wrong scale to Edge's reviews or are simply too caught up in their feelings.


Also I agree with this:

GinoFelino said:
Most modern artforms accept opinions as opinions; a lower score/opinion doesn't mean the product is inherently/objectively flawed. Blade Runner was very poorly received when it came out; (leaving later versions out of this equation) was the movie flawed at release but became less flawed as time went on? Or was it just misunderstood by many reviewers?

The same can be said for many games. Just because it's a 6 for someone doesn't mean it can't be a 10 for you. Things appeal differently to different people. I hope people will think that way about games one day.
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GinoFelino said:
Oh, I'm not offended, nor do I think mine is a position that needs defending. Nor is yours, for that matter. Your money is yours to spend however you like.

I just can't agree with this statement of yours.


Most modern artforms accept opinions as opinions; a lower score/opinion doesn't mean the product is inherently/objectively flawed. Blade Runner was very poorly received when it came out; (leaving later versions out of this equation) was the movie flawed at release but became less flawed as time went on? Or was it just misunderstood by many reviewers?

The same can be said for many games. Just because it's a 6 for someone doesn't mean it can't be a 10 for you. Things appeal differently to different people. I hope people will think that way about games one day.
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Now I get where you're coming from.

I assume that you had the experience you describe, where a game with a less than stellar reception turned out to be exactly right for you. GAF often points out games that are overlooked, which is great. Based on reviews I've been pleasantly surprised in the past (God Hand) as well as disappointed (Skyward Sword), but rarely has a game that's widely criticized made the jump from a 6 to a 9 for me. If that's the case for you, that's cool. I do wonder if there are any hidden Blade Runners in this medium though.

Again, I am not saying I will not give any game scoring below an 8.5 a second look, it's just that I'll approach it with hesitation.
 
Jyester said:
Now I get where you're coming from.

I assume that you had the experience you describe, where a game with a less than stellar reception turned out to be exactly right for you. GAF often points out games that are overlooked, which is great. Based on reviews I've been pleasantly surprised in the past (God Hand) as well as disappointed (Skyward Sword), but rarely has a game that's widely criticized made the jump from a 6 to a 9 for me. If that's the case for you, that's cool. I do wonder if there are any hidden Blade Runners in this medium though.

Again, I am not saying I will not give any game scoring below an 8.5 a second look, it's just that I'll approach it with hesitation.
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I think its going to be difficult for a game to become like a blade runnre because of the fickle nature of the medium. If a game gets critically panned, the chances of a "directors cut" type scenario are slim to none. You arent going to remaster or remake something that has failed out of the gate.
 
JoeM86 said:
As I said, it's not a sparse first party line-up. Yes, it does need more third party titles, but the people who are claiming that the first party line-up is sparse is ridiculous. Also, the hyperbole regarding launch line-up is hilarious. People have such warped memories of launch line-ups.

Also, the accessory complaint, really? How much are new PS4 and XBO controllers?
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It's not sparse if you want those particular games. Like I say, it's completely under-represented in many genres and if you don't want Nintendo's game of the month then you don't have anything to play at all. It's the Wii U all over again in that respect which doesn't bode well. Third parties could fill in those genre gaps but they are, once again, completely absent.

And the accessory complaint... Yeah. OK. Any of these complaints could be seen as minor, even petty in a vacuum. But they aren't. They all exist. Together. At the same time. It's the same situation the Wii U was in, it's the same situation that the Vita was in. Great systems undermined by a catalogue of complaints that mount up.

I could live with an expensive system. I could live with expensive accessories. I could live with not knowing about how the eShop is going to work. I could live with the game lineup. I could live with not having a d-pad out of the box. I could live with the insulting VC rentals. I could live with the voice chat on my mobile. I could live without a browser. I could live without Netflix.

But I can't buy one when it has all of those problems together at the same time. And neither will a lot of people.
 
Burai said:
It's not sparse if you want those particular games. Like I say, it's completely under-represented in many genres and if you don't want Nintendo's game of the month then you don't have anything to play at all. It's the Wii U all over again in that respect which doesn't bode well. Third parties could fill in those genre gaps but they are, once again, completely absent.

And the accessory complaint... Yeah. OK. Any of these complaints could be seen as minor, even petty in a vacuum. But they aren't. They all exist. Together. At the same time. It's the same situation the Wii U was in, it's the same situation that the Vita was in. Great systems undermined by a catalogue of complaints that mount up.

I could live with an expensive system. I could live with expensive accessories. I could live with not knowing about how the eShop is going to work. I could live with the game lineup. I could live with not having a d-pad out of the box. I could live with the insulting VC rentals. I could live with the voice chat on my mobile. I could live without a browser. I could live without Netflix.

But I can't buy one when it has all of those problems together at the same time. And neither will a lot of people.
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But the complaint Edge levied was that merging divisions would have caused more first party releases but that doesn't seem to be happening, and that's what I put into question. I wasn't talking about the third party issues, or what's covered, or if it's good value for people because that's all subjective.

I was countering the point about lack of first party releases with the fact that there are at least 9 in 10 months 8 retail, 7 internally developed, 3 of which are new IP (1-2 Switch, ARMS, Snipperclips).

Please don't conflate the argument I was making with an overall discussion of software as that was not what my posts were about.
 
Burai said:
But I can't buy one when it has all of those problems together at the same time. And neither will a lot of people.
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The "problems" are minor, and nothing special at all. Every console launch had roughly the same problems, but gamers tend to forget fast. There were complaints about price and line-up at every launch, even the PS4 faced many complaints with its average line up even a year after launch, the Wiis launch line-up was worse then Switch's.

At least Switch starts with a game that probably will be a 95+ critics darling.
 
Hoo-doo said:
Hence why people feel it's too expensive and why the online subscription model is likely going to kill Switch online communities quick.
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Waiting for Nintendo to explain their online offer in details, expecting big HW numbers and older demographic than in the past, I hope your pessimism is wrong.
 
Boy Wander said:
In the magazine the word OR is specifically used. Translation to AND in the summary causes the confusion.
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yeah im explaining the summary. i mean it's ridiculously easy to understand what the poster meant, the others complaining about it are just being obtuse.

Cloukyo said:
This. I dunno about in America, but just because five is in the middle, doesn't mean it's an average score.

That's a D in the UK grading system at school, so why confuse it with scores?

No-one wants a game that is a 6, regardless of your grading scale. You want a game that is an 8 or above, 7 if you're a fan of that particular franchise and are willing to take one of its weaker entries.

The way this scoring system works is that 0-4 is an almost impossible score to give a game, 0-1 is basically a broken game, like Big Rigs, 3-5 is a game which is playable, but only if you got it for free. 5-10 is for games where you paid money and expect a game of some sort. Just like with exam scores, where 0-50% is "you need to do this subject again, because you basically didn't study it£" and 50-100 is the "how good are you at this subject" score range.


And Edge score of 6 doesn't mean they're using the "right scale", that some people are talking about. They're just quite notorious for having quite critical reviews. That was their reputation back in the day anyway? They don't give out that many 10s.
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then what is the point of a ten point scale? games aren't graded like exam papers, they just aren't. there is no objective checklist that reviewers go by.
 
→ https://twitter.com/edgeonline/status/828905056531578880

C4DcjYmWAAAZ9Yg.jpg:large


I like the reference :)
 
JoeM86 said:
But the complaint Edge levied was that merging divisions would have caused more first party releases but that doesn't seem to be happening, and that's what I put into question. I wasn't talking about the third party issues, or what's covered, or if it's good value for people because that's all subjective.

I was countering the point about lack of first party releases with the fact that there are at least 9 in 10 months 8 retail, 7 internally developed, 3 of which are new IP (1-2 Switch, ARMS, Snipperclips).

Please don't conflate the argument I was making with an overall discussion of software as that was not what my posts were about.
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Snipperclips is just a small indie game, it's not internally developed. You can see what it originally was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJGooKIoy1Q
 
Well, ladies of and gents of Neogaf, played Yoshi Wooly World 3DS and bleurghh...slow and tedious.

Edge awarding it Six / Ten is generous.
 
m.i.s. said:
Well, ladies of and gents of Neogaf, played Yoshi Wooly World 3DS and bleurghh...slow and tedious.

Edge awarding it Six / Ten is generous.
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A lot of people probably already made their minds up about the game since the Wii U version's been out a while.
 
m.i.s. said:
Well, ladies of and gents of Neogaf, played Yoshi Wooly World 3DS and bleurghh...slow and tedious.

Edge awarding it Six / Ten is generous.
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Hm, stay away from the Wii U version then! The 60fps version on the New 3DS feels a lot snappier than it did on Wii U.
 
I honestly do like the look of that controller. But that is just me. I could never imagine in a thousand years that replacing my DS4.
 
GinoFelino said:
Hm, stay away from the Wii U version then! The 60fps version on the New 3DS feels a lot snappier than it did on Wii U.
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Just out of interest, what did E award this game on Wii U?

Game feels completely bogged down by collect-itis - and not in a good way. Pointless things like wig-wams, tents, badges, some silly dog kennel.

And when you start a level it takes you to the map screen [fair enough], asks you: do you really want to play this level that you've just selected [!] and then asks what power badge you would like. That's three button presses before you even start a level.

Horseshit.
 
The Switch preview in the this issue of EDGE reads like an obituary. No love and hope for the medium.

Really sad to see that these days this magazine is staffed by a bunch of fence-sitting, accountants.
 
gingerbeardman said:
The Switch preview in the this issue of EDGE reads like an obituary. No love and hope for the medium.

Really sad to see that these days this magazine is staffed by a bunch of fence-sitting, accountants.
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That's utter nonsense. Did you actually read it? It sounds like you're the one focusing on the negatives mentioned in the article.

m.i.s. said:
Just out of interest, what did E award this game on Wii U?

Game feels completely bogged down by collect-itis - and not in a good way. Pointless things like wig-wams, tents, badges, some silly dog kennel.

And when you start a level it takes you to the map screen [fair enough], asks you: do you really want to play this level that you've just selected [!] and then asks what power badge you would like. That's three button presses before you even start a level.

Horseshit.
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Yeah, a 6 as well. A fair score imo. It has some great moments and it's quite charming overall, but has its fair share of faults like the ones you've mentioned.
 
Burai said:
Well, that and a sparse year 1 software lineup that ticks few genre boxes, lack of basic smart device and/or console functionality, too many details TBA considering it's out in a month, confusing messaging regarding the future of their handheld strategy and an accessory pricing strategy that makes Vita memory cards look high value.

But yeah, just a bunch of uncultured morons moaning about power. That's all it is. And that crooked media, keep undermining Nintendo's perfect strategy with their negativity.
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I believe he means that the mainstream media are fake news. And biased against the switch.

I wonder if SNL will cover it too.
 
GinoFelino said:
Hm, stay away from the Wii U version then! The 60fps version on the New 3DS feels a lot snappier than it did on Wii U.
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Improved framerate is pretty nice. It was the only major complaint I had with the original release. Not that I'm gonna double dip but I'm glad they fixed that for newcomers.
 
JoeM86 said:
But the complaint Edge levied was that merging divisions would have caused more first party releases but that doesn't seem to be happening, and that's what I put into question. I wasn't talking about the third party issues, or what's covered, or if it's good value for people because that's all subjective.

I was countering the point about lack of first party releases with the fact that there are at least 9 in 10 months 8 retail, 7 internally developed, 3 of which are new IP (1-2 Switch, ARMS, Snipperclips).

Please don't conflate the argument I was making with an overall discussion of software as that was not what my posts were about.
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I think a major issue is that due to 3rd parties not being on switch in a big way makes the software schedule look sparse.

It doesn't matter if Nintendo release a game each month. It's still only one company supporting the console making its outlook sparse.

You can say other first parties don't have those many games and that true , but they don't need that since they have other companies adding to Thier software library.
 
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