but one thing is develop for switch, to my understanding, and another is porting. Porting means compromises to an already existing product. Developing for means making the product tailored to a certain HW. And like it or not, that usually doesn't happen with 3rd parties. So the easy thing is develop for XBO/PS4, and downgrade. ANd we know how that ends.
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Factor 5 reacquires Turrican license (Interview with Factor 5 founder)
- Thread starter mavericktopgun
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but one thing is develop for switch, to my understanding, and another is porting. Porting means compromises to an already existing product. Developing for means making the product tailored to a certain HW. And like it or not, that usually doesn't happen with 3rd parties. So the easy thing is develop for XBO/PS4, and downgrade. ANd we know how that ends.
frankie_baby
Member
Personally i know nothing technically though enough people that do have said the 2 can be used together
Interfectum
Member
If Switch takes off? Yes they will. A good port of something like GTA or Overwatch on Switch will sell a LOT if the system sales are there.
While I agree that on consoles it's not exactly the same I'm quite sure it's similar but maybe the gap is a bit narrower, best example is looking at DX12/Vulkan games where AMD cards on PC get a beefy boost but still if you look at comparable products from both brands the difference in flops performance is largely still there.
Why?
For FAST RMX they use adaptive resolution. They used some kind of checker-board rendering for Wii U, but I'm trying to think if there was any game using adaptive resolution on Wii U. Maybe it wasn't possible?
Gotdatmoney
Member
Easier to develop for doesn't necessarily imply easier to port too. The X1 is much closer to the PS4 in raw hardware strength, specifically on the CPU side than the Switch. That makes it easier to get things rinning as you game logic and your assets can be much more similar.
What is probably being implied is that if you wanna get a game up and running on the switch (not a port of PS4 game) the toolset is easy to use.
Zelda uses adaptive resolution also.
If the assets are done and it's easy to get your code up and running (even if it is running poorly) scaling it down should be infinitesimally easier than building a new game even if you are building a new game with better dev tools.
My assumption has always been that the Switch is about "twice" as powerful as the Wii U and 1/3rd as powerful as an Xbox One (gflops wise).
720p is its sweet spot, hence good performance in undocked mode.
Still darn impressive for handheld!
tkscz
Member
According to Shin'en there is a glitch in the Switch itself that makes the game have to do that, but there is a fix coming soon (probably with Mario Kart 8) that allows FAST to run at a solid 1080p.
frankie_baby
Member
I just think it probably will due to how technically minded shinen are and how much better than the Wii U version it is, maybe it doesnt though
But will we ever have comparison elements anyway, as it's obvious third parties will snob the console (maybe they can change their mind if the numbers are really high) and Nintendo always has its own little magic tricks and really different art directions.
I mean yes The last of us could run on Switch, and it can probably do even better technically, but will we have a game like that to compare it to. A gigantic budget realistic and cinematic game...It's not even sure.
I mean yes The last of us could run on Switch, and it can probably do even better technically, but will we have a game like that to compare it to. A gigantic budget realistic and cinematic game...It's not even sure.
geordiemp
Member
Exactly. If. And meanwhile the clock is running and maybe in a year time with 10 million Switches sold, but also 70milion PS4 and +30 milion XB in the wild too .... do your really expect good ports?
I have my doubts. Hopefully i am wrong. But even the Wii didn't get them and was destroying PS360 in sales
that is my fear, easy (lazy?) ports that do not squeeze Switch power.
openrob
Member
Sorry if i came off a bit antagonistic, but it is a pet peeve when i hear things like 'can it do 1080p?'.
It really depends on the game.
Wii U had a bunch of 1080p games, but that doesn't tell us much about its power, because those games weren't as demanding as others.
The switch will have more 1080p games that PS4 soon. But that will be because there will be an abundance of smaller titles.
Also, the dock doesn't give the console extra power, it's just that power is capped undocked to save battery life.
Everything is
LordKasual
Banned
Based on?
That said. The ps4 pro should be more than x4 what xbox one is.
Still those games look only minor better. So?
Ah, right, forgot about that. Let's see how much does it change in reality. As in the thread here dark10x made it sound less major than in the article:
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Ok, thanks for clarifying.
I'm basing my opinion on the assumption that there's a reasonable percentage (10%+) of shaders in a lot of games that can be sufficiently emulated with half precision, and that devs are able and willing to adapt their engines to do so when possible.
Do you think the majority of the world actually cares about flops or determines their business strategy on them? Devs decisions will not be driven by number of flops regardless, not to mention your dystopian view of the consoles powers. I mean honestly how the fuck would consoles ever come out and not eventually fall to low to mid pc range ? You understand the pc space is constantly evolving exponentially faster right?
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Expect no less whenever the words 'Factor 5' are in the thread title
Looks at title...
..what does one expect?
If title was...
...it may have been more balanced, haha.
The thread title is literally about the performance/tech of the system.
Gusy
Member
Does anybody has any idea how does a Switch compare hardware wise with a modern phone like the Iphone7? I think these phones pump out gorgeous visuals in 1080p but I dont know if they could run something like Zelda BoTW or a modern GTA. I'm really curious
And yeah.. Factor 5 Is Back! Should've been the thread title
And yeah.. Factor 5 Is Back! Should've been the thread title
Yeah, in the same way a New Nintendo 3DS is between an OG Nintendo 3DS and a GPD Win, I guess..
Wrong. Bits used to be a measure of the "size" of the processor, which is an indirect way of estimating it's power, in the same way all your talk of APIs, LPDDR4s and CPU architecures are also indirect ways. FLOPs are direct measure of the capabilities of the system. It's how many instructions can be executed in a given time ffs. It may be imperfect for comparison purposes, it may not give the whole picture, but they are more useful than just piling up meaningless 'facts' like whether an architecure is 'newe'r or an API ' more efficient'. Once you have a direct measure of what a system can do, all those arguments are completely irrelevant.
I wonder if you'll get away with calling moron another poster whose statement is perfectly aligned with what we know of the Switch's capabilities, and even with your own post.
Wrong. Bits used to be a measure of the "size" of the processor, which is an indirect way of estimating it's power, in the same way all your talk of APIs, LPDDR4s and CPU architecures are also indirect ways. FLOPs are direct measure of the capabilities of the system. It's how many instructions can be executed in a given time ffs. It may be imperfect for comparison purposes, it may not give the whole picture, but they are more useful than just piling up meaningless 'facts' like whether an architecure is 'newe'r or an API ' more efficient'. Once you have a direct measure of what a system can do, all those arguments are completely irrelevant.
Skittzo0413
Member
There was a Ubisoft dev on (I believe) the Beyond3D forums who said that 70% of all the code in the game he's currently working on could be half precision. The link to that is buried somewhere in the numerous NX/Switch tech threads so I don't know if I can find it, but if that's true even as the max for all Switch games that's a huge amount of improvement over the normal FP32 numbers.
It demonstrably runs Zelda better than the Wii U does. How is this shocking at all?
I think much worse CPU, slightly better gpu. Also has huge advantage from being a dedicated gaming platform with better tools etc.Does anybody has any idea how does a Switch compare hardware wise with a modern phone like the Iphone7? I think these phones pump out gorgeous visuals in 1080p but I dont know if they could run something like Zelda BoTW or a modern GTA. I'm really curious
And yeah.. Factor 5 Is Back! Should've been the thread title
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Wii: between GameCube and Xbox 360.
Accentuation on "can use"
franklyshankly
Member
Because they're using that power to push 4x as many pixels in many cases? What's your point there.
xenorevlis
Member
My bad, I misread the original statement as it can't get close to half the power of XB1 (1.31 TF Radeon). Have been having trouble going to sleep for the past week. Anyway, given the custom X1's architecture compared to the AMD GPU and the upcoming firmware update I definitely believe Switch docked is close to the midway point of what the X1 can do on paper. Not like it matters if you compare to Pro and Scorpio.
Skittzo0413
Member
BotW is the only game straining the hardware of both the Wii U and Switch so far, so it's really the only game which lets us compare how the two platforms perform relative to one another. The fact that BotW runs far better undocked and at a higher resolution docked than the Wii U, coupled with the fact that it was ported to the Switch in less than a year should tell you all you need to know about the two platforms' relative power.
Maybe shocking was too much, I should have said it should not have been surprising at all (or "news to you"). We've known this for a very long time.
For starters, It is not me who has complained about the power of current gen consoles. It has been a constant complain in gaf and other forums since XBO/Ps4 launched , underpowered, laptop cpu etc...
I amb very happy with my ps4 slim, currently blown away by Horizon visuals.
And devs will make business decisions based on potential sales and hw limitations.You can have a reality check by trying to compare FIFA on Wii and FIFA on PS360 for example. And that isn't a game that needs a lot of flops to run.
That is what i mean and fear. Time will tell what games will be available for each platform in the future. We can meet in 2 years and discuss the results.
Actually pro is only about x3.2 what Xbox one is
Is Fast RMX a better one?
I don't know about that. It's straining the hardware, yes, but probably because it isn't used as it could be, otherwise it would run much better.
Skittzo0413
Member
It's true that it could definitely be more optimized, but with the way the software is configured now it's clearly straining the hardware. But like I said, this is taking into account the fact that they had less than a year to port a game this massive. So it could definitely be running much better if optimized more effectively, as porting a game this huge from the Wii U's architecture (and RAM setup) to the Switch's must have been a very big task.
But basically my point is, even though Zelda on Switch is not fully optimized on account of it being ported in under a year, it still performs way better than the Wii U version. Which should make it very obvious that the Switch is stronger than the Wii U in all aspects, even when portable.
mavericktopgun
Member
Is that Switch docked or Switch handheld?
Even if I don't think Turrican Cyclone could happen, damn I'm so hyped for Amiga Turrican Trilogy ports / entire saga Collection.
Turrican Cyclone :
https://www.unseen64.net/2009/05/27/project-c-factor-5-ps3-cancelled/
Turrican Cyclone :
https://www.unseen64.net/2009/05/27/project-c-factor-5-ps3-cancelled/
Milly Osworth
Member
So why didn't you make the title "Factor 5 is back, gamers rejoice!!"
gregor7777
Banned
Off Topic: Holy shit your tag...LOL
franklyshankly
Member
Handheld at the left line, docked at the right line looks about accurate based on the numbers.
Fair enough.
Honestly, I just never though about it. I have (and love) my Wii U and that thing produced some great looking titles (Mario 3D world, Xenoblade Chronicles X, etc.), so I juts assumed the Switch was about on par or just a bit more powerful than the Wii U. I never fathomed this tablet was significantly more powerful than the Wii U.