Radical Edward
Member
Every other Nintendo console/handheld has a better exclusive library except for GC, VB and possibly Wii
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The Wii U is criminally underrated - it's one of the best consoles ever made
- Thread starter QuantumZebra
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
And that is, formula perfectioning but non-risk-taking entries (except botw) in Nintendo franchises.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
It isn't, it may have good games but if you are saying it has more good games than most consoles then you are being quite rude to many more great games. You should feel ashamed.
I was talking about stuff like this interview with a developer from Epic who literally laughs when asked about WiiU. Then later he remembers he needs to act like a professional and walks back the comment. I've honestly lost track how many times I've seen shit like this since 2013.
I just love how people conveniently forget the GameCube had no "gimmicks" and was overpowered compared to PS2. Or how the Wii was outselling both PS3 and 360 put together at various points and still not being treated like a primary platform by western developers. Or how Nintendo throws money time and again at developers but for whatever reason that doesn't count.
It doesn't matter what Nintendo does; there's always some weak sauce reason for why the planets didn't exactly line up for their machines to receive this or that game. They always end up with shovelware or late ports or purposefully gimped releases and always with tacked on and unnecessary crap that was never intended to be in the game but let's add it anyway because damned if I know why. Like EA purposefully sending out Mass Effect 3 to die on WiiU when they had a remastered collection just around the corner. Or Deus Ex Director's Cut at full price instead of the half price release everyone other system got because it had "extra features!" that nobody asked for. Even now the shit is happening again with Switch.
Always with the Fisher Price comparisons. As if admitting that you like to play with toys is going to brand you with a scarlet letter for the rest of your life.
Narpas Sword0
Member
That's not bashing toys, it's bashing things that are made like shit
The Wii had a more healthy and diverse lineup of games overall but Wii U has more games in the 'timeless classic' category. They might not be as iconic as the cultural phenomenon that was Wii Sports, but they're of extremely high quality and polish. If you do direct comparisons game for game it works almost always in favor of Wii U. For example NSMB U besides better production values has much superior level design, the beloved challenge mode and the Luigi DLC pack is incredible.
The number '15' might sound like a small number but look at how 4 of them fared in one year on neogaf game of the year awards. Many of the games on Wii U are some of the best entries in their respective genres, thus among the best games ever made. There are fewer games like that on Wii; the two Mario Galaxy games and Metroid Prime 3? What else? DKC Returns is up there too, but Tropical Freeze has more exciting and dynamic level design. Yes the Rhythm Heavens are great and all, I love them too, but they're not representative of the medium's finest like many games on Wii U are.
OK never made that assertion in the first place. I don't agree with his opinion either, but where did you get that argument from. Last I checked, the reason it's good is because reason(s) not reason.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
lol, I knew that was all about the Mark Rein quote because that's ALWAYS the one.
No one conveniently forgets the GameCube, you're just conveniently forgetting its own significant flaws. Namely, that its controller was lacking in inputs, the disc size was woefully small when games were beginning to balloon in size with high profile open world games begin to pop-up, and no online features when online games were coming into the picture. And yet despite that it still had significantly more 3rd party games than the Wii U. The Wii on the other hand suffered from being drastically underpowered, which meant that none of the games developers were building on 360/PS3/PC could be ported over, and combined with the controller meant that each project either had to either be a 360/PS3/PC game OR a Wii game. The Wii was huge, but not bigger than the three platforms that provided the hardware developers were most interested in combined. And yet again, the Wii STILL had a much better 3rd party slate than the Wii U.
And what time and time again cases that don't count are you even referring to?
It's not "weaksauce". Nintendo has repeatedly failed to provide the hardware developers actually want to work on, and in many cases has made hardware that necessitated ground-up projects built solely for the platform, when those resources could be better spent building a game that could be ported to 3 other consoles and earn far more money.
Also, no Mass Effect remastered collection was ever released, so now you're posting verifiable falsehoods.
Are you daft or just deliberately misreading? The entire point of the comparison is that the controller felt like a cheap piece of shit. Comparing it to a literal toy is a way of illustrating that, not some statement of utter fear for being judged for an associating with "kiddiness".
I don't this is true at all.
The wii u really doesn't any more timeless classics than your regular Nintendo console.
Glass Rebel
Member
You're entitled to your wrong opinion. And I respect it. Even though it's wrong.
Well you cant mention the Gamecube and act like those tiny ass disc didnt hurt it.
Wii, even tho it sold like gangbusters, wasnt HD and becase of Wii Motes or even just using the remote sideways games couldnt be ported as easily from PS360.
2 examples I can think of is an older Madden and a more recent Need for Speed The Run. Both were gimped versions that IMO had gameplay elements added or just straight up changed because of the console and/or inputs. Eventually Madden started being more like traditional Madden on the Wii but that early on was...interesting.
Need for Sped The Run on Wii looks like a knock off its so different.
Fact is after the SNES Nintendo has made some interesting console design choices. Quite a few that may have caused issues with 3rd party support.
Where the Wii shined with 3rd party is 3rd party...exclusives. And IMO thats what they should do with the Switch.
The Wii U had decent 3rd party ports...they just didnt get bought. Cant really blame devs for that.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Sparse releases of great games doesn't make a console good or great.
The Wii U works well as a supplementary platform for most.
It's easy to go back and cite a list of great games, but owning one from Day 1 and waiting for new releases was sub optimal.
And that's not even getting into the reasons as to why many didn't care for the hardware.
I was very late to the Wii U game but I'm loving the backlog of games I have to get through. It's also my children's first taste of gaming (5 and 3). My Daughter loves Super Mario 3D World, my son loves Captain Toad. We are close to 100% completing SM3DW together.
Games I own or on my list are:
SM3DW
Captain Toad
Super Mario Maker
Super Mario Bros U + Luigi
DKC Tropical Freeze
Yoshi's Wooly World
Mario Kart 8
I'd agree that it's a very Nintendo centric console. It's wrong to call it GOAT. There are far more consoles with more AAA games then the Wii U, but you should never not own the Wii U.
Games I own or on my list are:
SM3DW
Captain Toad
Super Mario Maker
Super Mario Bros U + Luigi
DKC Tropical Freeze
Yoshi's Wooly World
Mario Kart 8
I'd agree that it's a very Nintendo centric console. It's wrong to call it GOAT. There are far more consoles with more AAA games then the Wii U, but you should never not own the Wii U.
Depends on how you look at it. If GoldenEye N64 released today for the first time in its exact state, how do you think it would fare? I replayed the single player campaign recently, finishing all levels on the hardest difficulty and after analyzing the level design and enemy placement carefully I came to the conclusion that it's actually rather primitive in terms of game design. It does shit like constant respawning of enemies until you stand in a particular spot to make them disappear. More engaging gameplay than your cinematic Uncharteds, but by no means outstanding.
The greatness of many Nintendo 'classics' have to be appreciated within the context of their respective time periods. What makes them 'timeless' is that they hold up despite age. Wii U games are on the level of Yoshi's Island in terms of a game that holds up as a 10/10 masterpiece even to this day.
I'm always puzzled when someone says that the gamepad is really comfortable. To me it was extremely uncomfortable and after playing couple of hours my hands were hurting because the "ergonomic" lumps. Maybe I just have a mutant hands or something but that thing just feels awful. :/
That being said I still like my Wii U and it had some great games. Wii U might be underrated but it's nowhere near the best consoles no matter how you look at it...
That being said I still like my Wii U and it had some great games. Wii U might be underrated but it's nowhere near the best consoles no matter how you look at it...
By your measure none of the WiiU games can be considered timeless until they have stood the test if time and proven themselves against games over the next 10-20 years or more...so what's the point of making the distinction.
Another point seems to be late comers are forgetting the length of time between releases and the effect it caused. Of course it's great to pick up a system when it's entire library is available
King Gilga
Member
Lmao what an insult to the dreamcast, I don't believe that anyone who can say this even really knows what games the dreamcast had.
GitarooMan
Member
What's the future like? Is it cool?
We can do this chicken and egg thing all day long. The fact remains: even when the hardware is close to standard, even when Nintendo offers help in the form of money or promotion or whatever the results, where western developers are concerned at least, are half-assed. Blind Freddy can see there's clear resistance to prioritising development on these machines. Not to mention the reception the software gets from the enthusiast community, who often seem to regard themselves as too cool for school and way past that Nintendo stuff.
I meant trilogy. There was a collection announced and released like a week before Mass Effect 3 on WiiU. Talk about sending that thing out to die.
We can talk about ergonomics without using wholly inappropriate comparisons to children's toys. For one thing it makes no sense: many children's toys have great ergonomics and they're super durable to boot. But those aren't the qualities you're intending to highlight when you mention Fisher Price. You're using the comparison as an epithet to suggest poor quality goods intended for a naive and captive audience. It's fucking asinine.
I've spent hundreds of hours with my GamePad. I never once thought it was "cheap" or poorly constructed. The unit works as expected without crashing or dropping out, the buttons are tactile and responsive, it doesn't creak when I hold it firmly, it hasn't suffered unreasonable wear and tear despite some rough handling and I find it comfortable to hold for as long as I'm willing to play (~2-3 hrs max). There's nothing wrong with the thing from an utilitarian perspective. Maybe the design isn't so great but so fucking what. I don't care what it looks like, I just want to play games.
Stallion Dan
Member
It is an overpriced, underpowered failure with an overall extremely lacking library.
It isn't comparable to Dreamcast at all.
It isn't comparable to Dreamcast at all.
Many games achieve classic status based on the novelty they had going for them at the time, such as the awesome feeling of holding the Wii Remote for the first time while playing Wii Sports with your friends & family, resulting in experiences you will forever remember. Wii U games are not landmark titles in that sense, rather they're straight forward sequels to well established formulas that don't attempt to offer a profound new experience, instead strive for polish and are engineered to perfection.
Mario Kart 8 will always remain an amazing game for its outstanding track design, kart physics and item balance. It's possible the sequel has even better tracks and somehow improves the game balance significantly, but that fact doesn't render the game outdated in any way. My argument isn't based on the idea of "replaying old games now shows their age", I'm saying people loved the original DKC for the atmosphere they managed to produce on the SNES, whereas it wouldn't have the same impact today, thus diminishing its chances of being timeless. Wii U games have the same kind of qualities shared by games from that era that still entirely hold up.
I guess what I'm saying is that for a game to be timeless it has to be a mechanical masterpiece, whereas many beloved games from bygone eras fall out of fashion because they where beloved based for the emotional impact they had on people at the time. You can't expect DKC to offer the same level of immersion and atmosphere to a person who plays it today for the first time, while the level design in Yoshi's Island ensures it stays relevant for what it is, as opposed to what it once was.
I enjoyed for what it was, but honestly, many exclusive titles felt underwhelming. I mainly bought it for Mario Kart 8. It really is one of the greatest racing games ever in my opinion.
Bayo 2: It didn't hold a candle to the original and I only played it once.
Xenoblade X: Made me sleep, couldn't put in more than 15 hours. I'm holding on to the game in hopes of selling it for a high price.
Super Mario Land: Great MP fun, but one of the weakest Mario titles to date.
Yeah, it's not criminally underrated in my opinion. I'm glad more people will be able to experience the masterpiece MK8 is with the Switch.
Bayo 2: It didn't hold a candle to the original and I only played it once.
Xenoblade X: Made me sleep, couldn't put in more than 15 hours. I'm holding on to the game in hopes of selling it for a high price.
Super Mario Land: Great MP fun, but one of the weakest Mario titles to date.
Yeah, it's not criminally underrated in my opinion. I'm glad more people will be able to experience the masterpiece MK8 is with the Switch.
This is completely wrong. Both Gamecube and Wii have far better libraries of exclusives than the Wii U when you combine first, second and third party output on each machine.
Game for game? Yes, Wii U wins out in some cases. "Timeless classic" is subjective and if you're going to judge Goldeneye (20 years old at this point) by today's standards, then you have to do the same for Wii U games and wait two decades. If we take it to mean that Wii U has more great games, the answer is a firm no. Move past Wii Sports and shovelware, the Wii's library is very deep and Wii U simply can't touch it.
If you don't believe this to be true, make a serious effort to build a library of good Gamecube, Wii or even N64 games, and you will wind up with a larger collection for each than what's possible at all on Wii U.
This is ridiculous and revisionist. Games like Mario 64, Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time were technical masterpieces of their time. They weren't beloved because people were blinded by emotion. They were the 10/10 games of their time for a reason. And no, you don't know that the Wii U's library will remain "timeless."
This isn't a "chicken and egg" situation. We know precisely how this began, and it began with Nintendo first making choices that benefitted them at the expense of 3rd parties. This first started with the N64 where they decided to go with cartridges when the rest of the industry was on CDs. They made games like Final Fantasy 7 impossible in the forms the developers were creating them, and so began to get "alternative" versions of games, or simply not get them at all. There hasn't been a single gen since the SNES where you can honestly place the blame firmly on 3rd party studios (neither western nor Japanese).
The Gamecube got decent third-party support given its standing in relation to the PS2. It wasn't that dissimilar to the original Xbox. Did it get Soul Calibur 2? Yes. Did it get Splinter Cell? Yes. Did it get Need for Speed Underground? Yes. It got most of the prominent third-party games for that generation... especially from western developers. It was primarily the Japanese developers that gave the PS2 the library advantage it had over the Xbox and Gamecube.
Since the Gamecube though, the 3rd party situation has become pretty dire... and that's on Nintendo, because since then they haven't put out a console that's technologically in the same generation as the rest of the consoles. Asking for equal 3rd party support for the Wii and Wii U, is like asking for equal 3rd support for the Xbox or Gamecube during the 360/PS3 era, or the 360/PS3 today. It's not a realistic expectation, and that's why someone like Mark Rein laughs at the idea of it having UE4... not because everyone's in cahoots to ruin Nintendo... he'd have laughed if you asked if it would be ported to 360/PS3 also.
Actually, that exactly what causes a game to become outdated and not timeless. The reason GoldenEye doesn't seem so good today, is because so many games are doing what it did better now. At the time it was (wrongly imo) considered to be the best the genre offered.
royox
Member
N64: Cartidges.
GameCube: use of mini DVD that would force many games to come in 2 disks
Wii: underpowered hardware unable to run PS360 games or those years graphic engines (UE3 for ex), Wiimote gimmick.
Greatest Ever
Member
I would say we're reaching too when we say it has some of the best games ever made. None of the games on it were all timers for me unlike past Nintendo consoles which each had at least one. Granted, haven't played Bayo 2 but as much as I enjoy Smash and Kart they're so bereft of content that the sheer replayability is numbed compared to a game like Melee.
I think it goes back a lot further than the n64.Lots more here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=628616
Yea, I'm familiar with a lot of Nintendo's earlier bullshit also. I was mostly citing the point where it began to have real-world repercussions for them. As nasty as some of what Nintendo did say during the NES' reign, developers would still be back to support the SNES because it was still in their best interests to, even though supporting the Genesis also was now not the death sentence that supporting the Master System directly could be. With the N64 though, it began to not make sense to put your game on it at all, rather than just support the PlayStation as well.
The Saturn was an absolute fucking disaster in the west right out of the gate... but even then it was seeing better multiplatform parity with PlayStation, because it wasn't as at odds with the industry direction as the N64 was.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
You're not going to convince this guy. He's one of those Nintendo fanboys who genuinely thinks everyone is out to get them and Nintendo is infallible and blah blah blah. He'll never accept the reality that publishers would love to have their games on any platform possible, that there's no anti-Nintendo conspiracy, and that it's Nintendo themselves that has repeatedly made it difficult for developers and publishers to justify working on their platforms. Especially when they make consoles literally incapable of supporting the software they're developing.
And what about that Dark Souls producer that laughed when asked if Dark Souls would be coming to Wii U, was he also a mean western developer who just had it in for Nintendo? The Wii U was a joke, get over it.
Radical Edward
Member
Okay, which Nintendo systems have a weaker exclusive library than WiiU? Head to Head it gets thrashed.
I'm not arguing how it began. We all know that story very well. But an entire human generation has passed since then and conditions for developers publishing on Nintendo consoles is very different now to how it was then. Yet there is still this level of pushback which I think is due at least in part to culture. It's easy to ignore Nintendo because we've always ignored Nintendo.
But UE4 does run on WiiU. That came out the next day when he walked his comments back. But his first reaction is I suspect indicative of general sentiment towards WiiU at Epic. Just like the anonymous dev at EA who said WiiU was dead to them after launch.
Your original statement said every Nintendo console except GC and Wii had better exclusives than Wii U. I think he was disagreeing with the part about GC and Wii being worse, because I sure as heck disagree with that remark! I've tracked down every game I want to play in the upcoming few years on each system and formed really solid libraries for each. After a mix of exclusives + good multiplats... it's Wii > GC >>> Wii U.
It's awful. Nintendo's lone first party efforts, a handful of exclusives and indie ports are all that save Wii U from being in the same trash bin category as 32X and Jaguar.
This isn't directed at you but the OP: criminally underrated would be something like the PC Engine that has a surprising amount of depth once you start digging, not this disaster of a console.
Chronospherics
Member
I think the OP really stretches the quality of the third parties, and while the first party titles were neat, they were very natural iterations on previous installments in their respective franchise. Nothing novel or innovative, Mario Kart 8 was a logical step forward from Mario Kart 7, Smash 4 is an improved Brawl with a different roster, and 3D World is the multiplayer iteration of 3D land.
Those games are fine, but I'd argue none of them are doing anything remarkable.
I also think that Hyrule Warriors and Star Fox Zero are pretty bad games. Baring a select few third / second party titles (e.g. Donkey Kong, Xenoblade, Bayonetta), there's not much to lust after on the Wii U.
Those games are fine, but I'd argue none of them are doing anything remarkable.
I also think that Hyrule Warriors and Star Fox Zero are pretty bad games. Baring a select few third / second party titles (e.g. Donkey Kong, Xenoblade, Bayonetta), there's not much to lust after on the Wii U.
One of the best is hyperbole, but I agree that it's really underrated. I actually really like the concept of the tablet controller and assymetrical multiplayer gameplay and it's too bad that Nintendo ditched the idea with the Switch.
I was much more happy with the Wii U than I was with the Wii, though I still think it's behind all other Nintendo consoles.
I was much more happy with the Wii U than I was with the Wii, though I still think it's behind all other Nintendo consoles.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Donkey Kong and Xenoblade are not 2nd/3rd party.
Retro Studios and Monolith Soft are wholly owned subsidiaries of Nintendo and proper 1st party studios, and each have been for the majority of their existences (Retro since 6 months before they ever even shipped a game).
Why does this need to be said so much on GAF of all places?
Because people seem to think first party Nintendo is limited to EPD branches for some reason, as if they don't own anybody outside of that. Though OP also listed Splatoon and Pikmin 3 as 2nd/3rd party games so maybe if it's not Mario or Zelda people just can't believe a first party made it.
Radical Edward
Member
Ahhh, i see. It's certainly up for discussion. I only mentiond wii and gc because they are the only ones i'm on the fence about if We're talking first party or exclusives.
The conditions are different... but there's just different ways of being a poor environment for 3rd parties. There's not been a single Nintendo console since the SNES where there was no notable impediment to shipping the same games as you would on the competitors consoles. Nintendo's paid a ton of lip-service at the launch of each successive console about rectifying this, but until the actually do, you can't claim that 3rd parties would treat them unfavourably regardless. The closest Nintendo has come to putting out a console that's equally suitable for most multiplatform games was the Gamecube, and unsurprisingly that was the console that got the most support.
Over time this likely is creating a situation where Nintendo would struggle to release a console functionally on par with the competition and maintain equal third-party support, but even then this would be a result of Nintendo cultivating an audience for so long that only tends to look to Nintendo's own releases. Third parties are only going to support a console to the extent that they can sell software on it. You can see the XB1 losing out on Japanese software support for this reason, as MS after the early days of the 360 has cultivated an audience that doesn't purchase these games in large enough quantities to justify the porting/distribution costs. Nintendo has spent so long creating an environment on their consoles that benefits their games at the expense of other developer's (both in regards to power and controls), that effectively 100% of the addressable console audience for something like Call of Duty, now owns one of the other two platforms, and Nintendo would need to find ways to draw a substantial enough share of those users to make a port worthwhile.
Well, he stated that they don't officially support it on that platform, but it's fine it other studios wanted to get their UE4 projects up and running on it themselves. And... he says the same would apply for the Xbox 360 as well. That's basically the point, the Wii U was being seen as a 360/PS3 generation device from a developer standpoint, just released as development for those platforms was dying off in favour of the current generation machines.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Just went through my library and oddly my Wii U is a 3rd party majority system (though my Wii was dominated by 3rd parties). I have 6 1st party games, 1 that came with the system and 2 are Zelda remakes I already own, and 8 3rd party ones, though 2 were bought cheap. I didn't have a PS360 so I used the opportunity to get several of the games that were big on them. EDIT: I should note I have rented all of the major 1st party games for at least a week so it's not like I only used it to play 3rd party games.
I love the gamepad but I have really large hands and it fits perfectly. It's width also keeps my hands at a nice comfortable distance apart. It's one of my favorite things about the system and would be by far my favorite if the signal didn't cut out a few away from my bed and bathtub.
The VB was technically a console, but yeah it is definitely my least favorite Nintendo system.
You made a big deal about this and several commenters have replied with the reasons why but I haven't seen you respond to them yet. Do you think they are mistaken, if so why, or are you conceding the point?
Meh, I'm not a fan of the Wii U, have a Dreamcast, and am aware of what games are available for it and I would rank the DC below the Wii U.
SatoAilDarko
Member
It's absolutely underrated just like the original Wii.
There's a ton of great exclusives for it. With some having very interesting game play ideas and others that are just plain fun to play.
It's home to one of my favorite games with The Wonderful 101 and a possible all-time favorite in Xenoblade Chronicles X.
With the Switch a lot of people talk about playing in bed but that's what I already did with Wii U. I don't play handhelds outside. Also navigation of streaming services and the browser on TV was wonderful with a touch interface.
I have over 30 Nintendo retail games on it and plan to own them all as well as currently owning over 40 third-party ones with over ten more I plan to get. Not to mention of the digital download stuff I have.
There's a ton of great exclusives for it. With some having very interesting game play ideas and others that are just plain fun to play.
It's home to one of my favorite games with The Wonderful 101 and a possible all-time favorite in Xenoblade Chronicles X.
With the Switch a lot of people talk about playing in bed but that's what I already did with Wii U. I don't play handhelds outside. Also navigation of streaming services and the browser on TV was wonderful with a touch interface.
I have over 30 Nintendo retail games on it and plan to own them all as well as currently owning over 40 third-party ones with over ten more I plan to get. Not to mention of the digital download stuff I have.