Support NeoGAF

[uomoartificiale]

I just love how people conveniently forget the GameCube had no "gimmicks" and was overpowered compared to PS2. Or how the Wii was outselling both PS3 and 360 put together at various points and still not being treated like a primary platform by western developers. Or how Nintendo throws money time and again at developers but for whatever reason that doesn't count.

It doesn't matter what Nintendo does; there's always some weak sauce reason for why the planets didn't exactly line up for their machines to receive this or that game. They always end up with shovelware or late ports or purposefully gimped releases and always with tacked on and unnecessary crap that was never intended to be in the game but let's add it anyway because damned if I know why. Like EA purposefully sending out Mass Effect 3 to die on WiiU when they had a remastered collection just around the corner. Or Deus Ex Director's Cut at full price instead of the half price release everyone other system got because it had "extra features!" that nobody asked for. Even now the shit is happening again with Switch.

So what's your explanation for the lack of 3rd party support? The illuminati conspiracy?

I mean it's quite easy to see that 3rd parties studios and publishers did the math and it wasn' worthy for some reason:

- Different architecture/specs/dev tools means more development cost, to the point of hiring a studio to make a different sku of the game.

- Their dodgy online infastructure means losing revenue from dlc and micro transactions.

- And the list goes on...

 

[Miroku129]

Horrible console. Some solid games of course. OS and control scheme are a pain in the ass.

 

[Timeaisis]

Fantastic first party games, meh console.

The goodness of the first party games cannot be understated, though. They are that good.

 

[minkymuskyslyoldstoaty]

I see the Wii U as a bit like a football club having a world class first eleven and then not having any reserves or substitutes. On its day you're going to get spectacular, fantastic results, but unlikely to succeed in the long term against other teams with strong squads, even if their first eleven can't quite match up player for player.

 

[RoninChaos]

Still wish I could get a 32 gig white one.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Completely disagree, OP. It felt cheap as hardware, it was underpowered in an era where being underpowered was a death sentence, the name was stupid, the gimmick was better than the Wii but still not good enough for third parties to take advantage of,

I fail to see how a simple motion sensitive stick with buttons, is a worse gimmick than a bulky, iPad wannabe that completely misses the point of it's predecessor's success.

 

[Vanadium]

🤔

 

[RudiJay]

I regret buying mine. If Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101 ever get ported to something else I'm selling it to get a Switch.

 

[xevis]

You made a big deal about this and several commenters have replied with the reasons why but I haven't seen you respond to them yet. Do you think they are mistaken, if so why, or are you conceding the point?

What exactly are you looking for? A vigorous defence for the GameCube disc format? You won't get one from me. I highlighted the GameCube in order to point out that even when Nintendo achieves parity in terms of power there's always a reason why it doesn't matter. In this case the disc format. Like suddenly everyone forgot how to compress textures and it's impossible to port games to the system. But oh, this PS2 thing? Yeah, we'll spend as long as it takes optimising the code to make sure our stuff runs fast and well on that! It's the market leader after all!

Except when Nintendo has the machine which is the market leader. In which case the exact opposite of what you'd expect to happen happens. Like, yeah, the install base is huge but it's a weird machine and our audience isn't there and anyway we're focusing our attention on other types of games.

Each of those excuses can be a perfectly legitimate point but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the entire industry seems to think this way and I don't know why pointing that out generates so much outrage. Maybe it's easier or more fun to make yet another Nintendoomed argument than question the status quo.

 

[Godcannon]

At the end of the day, I bought a Wii U 2 years in advance for Xenoblade Chronicles X, and it's one of my favorite games of all time. It is ridiculously complex which hurts its player friendliness, but its combat,depth,and exploration are one of a kind.

So because I did this, I also got to play/beat Mario Kart 8 racing, Super Smash Bros with freaking Megaman and Cloud (way overpowered, but oh that level), DK Tropical Freeze (dethroned OG Country), and Super Mario Bros U couch Co-op 4p.

On top of that, I still have yet to play Bayonetta 1 & 2. I just beat Nier Automata, I've beaten every Devil May Cry, I've beaten Vanquish, basically I love Platinum games, which im pretty sure they do most of those if not all. There's also other games I still want to check out.

Finally, I never had a Wii, but now I have started Super Mario Galaxy 2, and all the legends I heard are true(got half way through and said whatever, this is gonna rhyme now).

Overall, I'd say I've had a pretty good time, and there's more.

TL;DR

Xenoblade Chronicles X
Mario Kart 8 Racing
Smash Bros with Mega Man and FFVII level
DK Tropical Freeze
Super Mario Bros U 1-4p

Still need to play Bayonetta/2 and love Platinum games.

Playing Super Mario Galaxy 2 for 1st time

 

[rex]

Depends on how you look at it. If GoldenEye N64 released today for the first time in its exact state, how do you think it would fare? I replayed the single player campaign recently, finishing all levels on the hardest difficulty and after analyzing the level design and enemy placement carefully I came to the conclusion that it's actually rather primitive in terms of game design. It does shit like constant respawning of enemies until you stand in a particular spot to make them disappear. More engaging gameplay than your cinematic Uncharteds, but by no means outstanding.

The greatness of many Nintendo 'classics' have to be appreciated within the context of their respective time periods. What makes them 'timeless' is that they hold up despite age. Wii U games are on the level of Yoshi's Island in terms of a game that holds up as a 10/10 masterpiece even to this day.

I think your analysis needs some work. Goldeneye's core game design is excellent and its enemy characteristics (placement, orientation, behavior) are no exception.

You bring up an interesting way of looking at things though. Imagine Wii U's games on the GC or N64, shorn of their high res graphics and perhaps their precious frame rates, and wonder how far they'd get by on their game design. Not very far, I would say. So many of the games, especially the platformers, are middling entries in their respective franchises. I wonder if the pretty graphics have covered up their shortcomings.

 

[Rival]

It is a shit console with some amazing games. I'd never get rid of mine though. Day 1 the system was practically unusable it was so slow. It took like a minute and a half just to close out of a game.

 

[atpbx]

It's amazing how a company could completely and utterly fail to understand the reason why the Wii was successful and produce the Wii U as it's follow up.

I mean, it's David Moyes level of incompetence.

 

[HotHamBoy]

As a console (hardware/OS/digital store) it's one of the worst I've ever owned.

It's got a fantastic 1st party line-up and some great 3rd party titles, too.

But I can't call it one of the best ever, no. Most of the great games are highly derivative sequels. Some of the best entries in their respective franchises, no doubt, but the Wii U distinctly lacks innovation and new IPs. Splatoon is the true exception.

I'd rather have a Wii + GC BC over a Wii U + Wii BC. That said, I run Nintendont on Wii U so it's a non-issue.

Likewise, I'd rather have a DS + GBA BC over a 3DS + DS BC.

Now there's the Switch with zero BC.

 

[Septimus Prime]

It's definitely in the top 3 of its generation.

 

[EventHorizon]

It's amazing how a company could completely and utterly fail to understand the reason why the Wii was successful and produce the Wii U as it's follow up.

I mean, it's David Moyes level of incompetence.

The problem for Nintendo was the Wii was successful for reasons that were extremely difficult to replicated. Microsoft ran into the same buzzsaw with Kinect. Nintendo could have had success making a Kinect like device, but that goes against their culture of being conservative with their tech. They refine what is already out there. They don't blaze a new trail.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's definitely in the top 3 of its generation.

I dunno, OUYA is some stiff competition.

Spoiler

I KID

 

[notaskwid]

What exactly are you looking for? A vigorous defence for the GameCube disc format? You won't get one from me. I highlighted the GameCube in order to point out that even when Nintendo achieves parity in terms of power there's always a reason why it doesn't matter. In this case the disc format. Like suddenly everyone forgot how to compress textures and it's impossible to port games to the system. But oh, this PS2 thing? Yeah, we'll spend as long as it takes optimising the code to make sure our stuff runs fast and well on that! It's the market leader after all!

Except when Nintendo has the machine which is the market leader. In which case the exact opposite of what you'd expect to happen happens. Like, yeah, the install base is huge but it's a weird machine and our audience isn't there and anyway we're focusing our attention on other types of games.

Each of those excuses can be a perfectly legitimate point but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the entire industry seems to think this way and I don't know why pointing that out generates so much outrage. Maybe it's easier or more fun to make yet another Nintendoomed argument than question the status quo.

😂

 

[DLaicH]

The title of the OP says "one of the best consoles ever made," but the post itself reads more like "one of the best software lineups Nintendo ever made." The console itself doesn't do much for me except the concept of off TV play, and even that isn't executed as well as it deserves to be. The first/second party software library absolutely deserves praise, but those games are great in spite of the limitations of the console.

It's nice to think that a great game library should make a console more popular, but it's human nature to judge things by first impressions. If a console makes a bad (or forgettable) first impression, it may spend the rest of its lifetime desperately searching for something to "save" it. If a console makes a great first impression, then that perception will drive sales for awhile, even if the library isn't as stellar as the less popular console.

What I'm getting at is that the Wii U was not a good enough console to make a favorable first impression. Even if we ignore marketing missteps, it was a console that offered very little that users couldn't get elsewhere. It did not significantly iterate on the accessibility, motion sensing technology, or even the aesthetics of the Wii. It did not offer "next gen" processing capabilities. And its one gimmick, the gamepad, was perhaps a good idea at its heart, but people found the device itself off-putting or even ugly. It did not look comfortable to hold, even though it IS actually more comfortable than it looks. The appearance of awkwardness and clunkiness damaged perceptions of the one unique feature the Wii U had going for it.

Contrast this with the launch of the Switch, which is enjoying much more popularity and positive word of mouth than the Wii U, and God knows it's not because it has a better library. Hell, my girlfriend wants one really badly, and I'm not sure she could name a single game that's available for Switch right now, except for Zelda, which she wouldn't play anyway. The design of the Switch inspires people to want to hold it, to want to hear the satisfying click it makes in the dock. Even if there aren't that many notable games for it right now, people perceive it as something that they would enjoy playing games on.

A truly great console facilitates a bond between the gamer and the games, but the Wii U is more of a hurdle that gamers must jump over to experience one of the best software lineups ever made.

 

[Fredrik]

Well, I made a thread not long ago about me having more games on WiiU than PS4 and XB1... Combined!
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1348017

But I still don't think it's the best console ever or even this generation. I think it has more unique exclusives than the others though. And as a PC gamer who get all multiplats on PC it's a bit different from the usual console gamer who has all multiplats on console, where WiiU is absolutely disasterous. Comparing the consoles for multiplats+exclusives makes WiiU bad. Comparing them for only exclusives makes it great though.

 

[Fredrik]

What exactly are you looking for? A vigorous defence for the GameCube disc format? You won't get one from me. I highlighted the GameCube in order to point out that even when Nintendo achieves parity in terms of power there's always a reason why it doesn't matter. In this case the disc format. Like suddenly everyone forgot how to compress textures and it's impossible to port games to the system. But oh, this PS2 thing? Yeah, we'll spend as long as it takes optimising the code to make sure our stuff runs fast and well on that! It's the market leader after all!

Except when Nintendo has the machine which is the market leader. In which case the exact opposite of what you'd expect to happen happens. Like, yeah, the install base is huge but it's a weird machine and our audience isn't there and anyway we're focusing our attention on other types of games.

Each of those excuses can be a perfectly legitimate point but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the entire industry seems to think this way and I don't know why pointing that out generates so much outrage. Maybe it's easier or more fun to make yet another Nintendoomed argument than question the status quo.

This is a hilarious post but also unfortunately true. Which is why I don't think Switch will set the world on fire among devs no matter if it's selling 100 million units. I think third party devs will largely ignore it for AAA stuff no matter what, just as they've always done with Nintendo consoles post SNES-days. I bet even if Nintendo would've made a PS4 beater when it comes to power we would've still seen the 3rd parties find a way to make it seem like an okay choice to ignore it.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

my recent pickups =) thanks GAF!

 

[Machina]

I fail to see how a simple motion sensitive stick with buttons, is a worse gimmick than a bulky, iPad wannabe that completely misses the point of it's predecessor's success.

Motion controls are trash. End of. At least the Wii U gamepad with off screen play had a tangible use for kids who wanted to keep playing while their parents watched TV

 

[keyboardsnake]

The thread had a bad title, but I do think history will find the Wii U more fondly than when it was new. I think it will be more desirable than many other Nintendo consoles: namely the Wii, and possibly even the Gamecube. This is true for both Hardware and Software perspectives.

With time all the things that make it a "failure" tend to fade away as they don't matter anymore (bad name, bad advertising, not being cutting edge performance, etc.) and the retro perspective focuses on just the games. And the Wii U is a place where some truly standout Nintendo games lived.

Hardware Advantages

• HD system. While the hardware was not cutting edge, it stood up better than the Wii thanks to being HD. Games like Mario Kart 8 looked damn good and on par with the more powerful systems. The Wii on the other hand feels more janky in 480p land.
• HDMI: seems silly, but the Wii U will play much better with the TVs of the future. All the other systems are truly retro connection relics.
• Backwards compatible with Wii: at the end of the day, you can play the Wii library easier via HDMI on the Wii U. This could give the console legs as a retro access point to the Wii library
• Off TV play. Even if the Switch is better at it, Wii etc. can't do it at all
• 2nd screen tablet: Even the Switch can't do it. It was never used all that well, but certain games did use it well (Starfox, Nintendoland, Mario Maker, ZombiU...) and that type of experience is unique to the Wii U.

Software Advantages

• Zelda: Wii U has the (arguable) best versions of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and also has a version of BoTW that's not too far off the Switch version. Also Hyrule Warriors. Wii U might be the greatest Zelda console ever
• New Super Mario U is better than New Super Mario Bros Wii
• DK Tropical Freeze is better than DK Wii
• Only console for Splatoon 1, no other Nin console has anything like it except Switch
• Mario Kart 8 is probably the best MK, period, when you substract nostalgia (*except for the damn battle mode). Sure MK8 Deluxe will be the superior version, but that doesn't subtract from Wii U having an amazing Kart game superior to the consoles beforehand
• Mario 3D World is amazing. I hesitate to say it's better than Galaxy 1 or 2, and of course wasn't world shaking like Mario 64, but its easily better than Mario Sunshine on Gamecube.
• Star Fox Zero gets more hate than it deserves, but it's still better and more inventive than Star Fox Assault on Gamecube and Wii didn't even have a Starfox game
• Wii Sports Club is the better, HD version of the Wii's claim to fame Wii Sports. This is a big blow to the Wii vs. Wii U.
• Nintendoland is underrated and easily more fun that Wii Party or Wii Motion or any of those other Wii minigame games. Wii Party U is not as good as Nintendoland, but still better than the Wii Party on Wii.
• NES remix: nothing like it on any other console to date. Can see it being an obscure/collectable gem
• Mario Maker is going to go down as a Very Big Deal, especially if it never gets a port or sequel. Wii U is the only home console for it
• Smash 4 is better than Smash on Wii, and more playable than Smash on N64.
• 2D platformers in general: not only DK Tropical, but Yoshi's Wooly and Kirby's Epic. Also a great version of Rayman. 2D platform fans are really going to want a Wii U in their collection.
• Pikmin 3 puts a dent in desirability of Gamecube/Wii from the Pikmin angle. Wii U pad ads unique advantages.
• Definitive console for Bayonetta
• "odd" stuff like Pokken Tournament, etc. will have some long term collecability

TLDR

• Vs. Gamecube: Wii U is stronger at everything except Smash, and missing F-Zero/Metroid
• Vs. Wii: Wii U is stronger at everything except arguably equal on Mario and admittedly doesn't have a unique Zelda game like Wii's Skyward Sword

Again, I think with time people are going to see the Wii U as a strong home for key Nintendo games and an excellent option to play the entire Wii library (Wii + Wii U) using modern connections.

 

[correojon]

Motion controls are trash. End of. At least the Wii U gamepad with off screen play had a tangible use for kids who wanted to keep playing while their parents watched TV

Motion controls, if implemented well, can be a great thing. I loved them in SS, House of the Dead, Sin and Punishment 2, Splatoon, 12Switch (this along HD rumble is a cool mix)... Also, they allow touchscreen games to be played on TV mode with the Switch. They´re not intrinsically bad, it totally depends on how they are used and implemented.

Also, I´m no kid and the OffTV mode of WiiU was maybe it´s best feature for me, as it surely was for people who have to share the TV.

 

[Pankratous]

Underrated... I can agree with.

But it has a small library of games with an actual story, no 3rd party support and is heavily underpowered. It deserved to fail. Just not quite as badly as it did.

 

[Synth]

TLDR

• Vs. Gamecube: Wii U is stronger at everything except Smash, and missing F-Zero/Metroid
• Vs. Wii: Wii U is stronger at everything except arguably equal on Mario and admittedly doesn't have a unique Zelda game like Wii's Skyward Sword

I don't think this is true really, unless you have Wii BC negate the Wii entirely... but I'd argue it'd still be the Wii's legacy, not Wii U's, much like I don't see the PS2's ability to play PS1 games as the PS2 being to credit for WipEout 2097 rather than the PS1.

Wii had the near-unanimously acclaimed Xenoblade Chronicles for example, versus the much less enthusiastically received Xenoblade Chronicles X. It also had Metroid Prime 3 (and Trilogy) where the Wii U has none. I also don't think Mario 3D World is going to be remembered anywhere near as prominent as the Galaxy games in order to make them equal... and that's not even considering there are two Galaxy games on Wii.

For Gamecube, not only would you have Smash, Metroid and F-Zero, but something like Mario Kat Double Dash will be far more likely to be something people with an interest in the past will want to return to rather than Mario Kart 8 on Wii U, because the enhanced Switch port is likely to effectively write the Wii U version out of history. The same thing has a good chance of happening with Splatoon also.

In both cases, I also don't think it makes much sense to limit the library consideration to only the Nintendo IPs that would be commonly assumed to overlap across consoles. The Gamecube and Wii have a lot of other games beyond those that are historically associated with the console, or are the preferred means of playing the game (Skies of Arcadia Legends, Viewtiful Joe, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Eternal Darkness, Phantasy Star Online EP I&II... to name a few Gamecube examples).

 

[Doc_Drop]

I bet even if Nintendo would've made a PS4 beater when it comes to power we would've still seen the 3rd parties find a way to make it seem like an okay choice to ignore it.

What? third parties would be all over a powerful home console from Nintendo unless Nintendo were implementing odd controls, online structure or whatever else to make life more difficult for devs and publishers.

But this hypothetical is literally impossible to argue given we haven't had a test case for this in 30-40 years

 

[schlynch]

I don't think so. It has the tablet, one of the worst devices I ever had to use and they still force you to use it for system updates and such things. It feels and looks like a cheap toy, handling and connectivity is downright terrible. OS is slow and a chore to navigate. Games were okay, not Nintendos best overall but there were a few great titles for sure. Still all of them held back by the terrible hardware.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Jesus christ!
This kind of crap sums up this thread perfectly.
Wii U was nothing, and not even remotely memorable!
The Gamecube ate that thing for breakfast!

I wouldn't even compare the Dreamcast to the Gamecube.
How you feel about Wii U is how I've always felt about the Dreamcast, lol. but that's because its library didn't do anything for me at all, and I can totally see how it's got a special library to a fair amount of people.

 

[Mega]

Want to respond to this post because there's so much wrong in it.

The thread had a bad title, but I do think history will find the Wii U more fondly than when it was new. I think it will be more desirable than many other Nintendo consoles: namely the Wii, and possibly even the Gamecube. This is true for both Hardware and Software perspectives.

Stands to be seen, but I disagree. Gamecube has already joined the NES and SNES in terms of retro gaming/collecting desirability. The Gamepad is pretty much reviled and I see that being a hurdle to its acceptance vs. a good traditional controller.

With time all the things that make it a "failure" tend to fade away as they don't matter anymore (bad name, bad advertising, not being cutting edge performance, etc.) and the retro perspective focuses on just the games. And the Wii U is a place where some truly standout Nintendo games lived.

Focus goes back to the games... and there just aren't very many standout games. Third party support was almost nonexistent. There are very few killer, 10/10, must-have titles beyond BOTW, Bayo 2 and Splatoon. Switch has the superior version of BOTW and will likely receive superior ports of the Wii U's best games.

Hardware Advantages

• HD system. While the hardware was not cutting edge, it stood up better than the Wii thanks to being HD. Games like Mario Kart 8 looked damn good and on par with the more powerful systems. The Wii on the other hand feels more janky in 480p land.
• HDMI: seems silly, but the Wii U will play much better with the TVs of the future. All the other systems are truly retro connection relics.
• Backwards compatible with Wii: at the end of the day, you can play the Wii library easier via HDMI on the Wii U. This could give the console legs as a retro access point to the Wii library
• Off TV play. Even if the Switch is better at it, Wii etc. can't do it at all
• 2nd screen tablet: Even the Switch can't do it. It was never used all that well, but certain games did use it well (Starfox, Nintendoland, Mario Maker, ZombiU...) and that type of experience is unique to the Wii U.

I agree with most of the HDMI stuff, except two things:
-the part about Mario Kart 8 looking comparable to games on PS4/XB1. That's ridiculous and simply untrue.
-The Wii U tablet, its screen, its small battery and its build quality were regarded as terrible and low quality at launch.
-The Wii U's limited tablet features were a big negative and not well implemented. No one will remember them fondly especially with the Switch showing the right way to do it.
-Wii U's Virtual Console was limited and its implementation was often bad (poor PQ, added input lag). Wii VC is a lot better.
-Wii U's vWii has factually proven inferior/botched PQ compared to Gamecube and Wii.

Software Advantages

• Zelda: Wii U has the (arguable) best versions of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and also has a version of BoTW that's not too far off the Switch version. Also Hyrule Warriors. Wii U might be the greatest Zelda console ever
• New Super Mario U is better than New Super Mario Bros Wii
• DK Tropical Freeze is better than DK Wii
• Only console for Splatoon 1, no other Nin console has anything like it except Switch
• Mario Kart 8 is probably the best MK, period, when you substract nostalgia (*except for the damn battle mode). Sure MK8 Deluxe will be the superior version, but that doesn't subtract from Wii U having an amazing Kart game superior to the consoles beforehand
• Mario 3D World is amazing. I hesitate to say it's better than Galaxy 1 or 2, and of course wasn't world shaking like Mario 64, but its easily better than Mario Sunshine on Gamecube.
• Star Fox Zero gets more hate than it deserves, but it's still better and more inventive than Star Fox Assault on Gamecube and Wii didn't even have a Starfox game
• Wii Sports Club is the better, HD version of the Wii's claim to fame Wii Sports. This is a big blow to the Wii vs. Wii U.
• Nintendoland is underrated and easily more fun that Wii Party or Wii Motion or any of those other Wii minigame games. Wii Party U is not as good as Nintendoland, but still better than the Wii Party on Wii.
• NES remix: nothing like it on any other console to date. Can see it being an obscure/collectable gem
• Mario Maker is going to go down as a Very Big Deal, especially if it never gets a port or sequel. Wii U is the only home console for it
• Smash 4 is better than Smash on Wii, and more playable than Smash on N64.
• 2D platformers in general: not only DK Tropical, but Yoshi's Wooly and Kirby's Epic. Also a great version of Rayman. 2D platform fans are really going to want a Wii U in their collection.
• Pikmin 3 puts a dent in desirability of Gamecube/Wii from the Pikmin angle. Wii U pad ads unique advantages.
• Definitive console for Bayonetta
• "odd" stuff like Pokken Tournament, etc. will have some long term collecability

-Wii U's version of BOTW is more than "not too far off"... it's significantly worse in resolution and framerate. Using two Gamecube ports as part of your argument that this is the best Zelda machine ever is ludicrous. That honor goes to the N64 for its landmark Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask OR the Gamecube where Wind Waker and Twilight Princess originated. Two ports and a worse version of another Zelda doesn't add up to what you said.

-Yes, NSMBU is generally regarded as superior but then again... the entire NSMB series has the blandest visuals and not a great rep relative to the old 2D Marios. I don't consider it a bragging point that it didn't get something newer, better and much more ambitious. Iterative HD sequels were not a big help for Wii U's success.

-DKTF better than DKCR is subjective and not universally agreed upon. They're both excellent titles.

-Splatoon 1 is great but Splatoon 2's release so soon after the first one is indicative of S1's squandered potential on a console hardly anyone bought. This franchise is much bigger than Wii U and deserves a whole lot better. I consider it proof Nintendo needed to abandon the sinking Wii U ship ASAP and moves its big titles to a new, better system.

-Mario Kart 8 being the "best" is a matter of opinion. Some people really love the original to this day and some of the other sequels as well. It's really condescending to write that off as "lol nostalgia." Some prefer the mechanics and controls of Double Dash. Mario Kart 64 alone has a real (and much better) battle mode. What's strange here is that you basically say "Switch will have Deluxe, but so what" in the same post that you gladly and point out Wii U has better versions of GC/Wii games.

-Mario 3D World is great but isn't in the same upper echelon of impact and inventiveness as Mario 64 and Galaxy. I don't buy the argument it's not a "real 3D Mario," but it's definitely not what we were clamoring for. As I see it, 3D World is a step below the very high end mainline Mario games and I think that's a common sentiment. Sunshine despite its shortcomings serves as a AAA-tier Mario 64 sequel, as will Odyssey.

-Star Fox Zero being better than Assault is debatable. It definitely has worse controls and has the same rehashed. Assault has on average higher review ratings than Zero (Metacritic) and seems more fondly remembered by gamers than your post implies.

-Listing Wii Sports Club and Nintendoland as pluses demonstrate the sad state of the Wii U. Neither of these games got the praise or widespread appeal of Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort or the best Mario Parties on N64 and GC.

-NES Remix stinks if you're a retro purist. The snippets of retro gameplay have a weird palette, an ugly blur filter and horrendous input lag.

-Mario Maker already has a 3DS port and will not remain locked to the Switch. In any case, this isn't really a must-have if you're the type who isn't really interested a stage creator.

-I like Smash 4 more than the rest, but the FGC considers Melee to be the best and Smash 64 has a hardcore following... Smash 4 "more playable" than Smash 64 is subjective and not really backed up by anything concrete. They're both straightforward fighting games, as easy to just pick up and play as the other.

-Gamecube and Wii both have many more platformers ,3D action games, FPSes than Wii U. When touting the "greatness" of Wii U, people always go back to the same few games which is pretty sad.

-How does Pikmin 3 put a dent in the prior 2 games? The first one is quite different and some regard 2 as the best one. Also Wii motion control versions are considered by some to be the definitive versions.

-Bayo port is coming to Steam, so this may not be true soon enough. Conjecture, but I don't see Bayo 2 remaining locked on Wii U forever.

-Pokken Tournament in Wii U has been a disappointment (sub-HD, lacking in content, and no updates) and will likely also be ported to the Switch. This will be the pattern going forward: the few notable Wii U games will get superior/enhanced ports on Switch.

TLDR

• Vs. Gamecube: Wii U is stronger at everything except Smash, and missing F-Zero/Metroid
• Vs. Wii: Wii U is stronger at everything except arguably equal on Mario and admittedly doesn't have a unique Zelda game like Wii's Skyward Sword

Again, I think with time people are going to see the Wii U as a strong home for key Nintendo games and an excellent option to play the entire Wii library (Wii + Wii U) using modern connections.

-Absolutely not @ Wii U being stronger at everything than Gamecube. The Gamecube has a much bigger library of exclusives and third-party games. The Wii U is a highly diminished version of this.

-Absolutely not to your second point as well. Wii has the Mario Galaxies so there's no "arguable equal" argument to be made there. The Wii also has has an enormous library of quality third party mid-tier titles and hidden gems, etc. that are entirely missing on Wii U. If you look beyond Wii Sports and "lol waggle" it's easily a hundred quality games deep. Its Virtual Console is also leagues better and it has WiiWare on top of that (Castlevania/Gradius/Contra Rebirth, Mega Man 9/10, etc).


If you have to:
-lie and omit the good on GC and Wii,
-overcompensate by listing middling features and lackluster games like Nintendoland and Wii Sports Club,
-plus insert dubious opinion that X>Y that not everyone agrees on,

Then you're doing a very poor and unconvincing job in proving Wii U was somehow a great system.

 

[Sorcerer]

Motion controls are trash. End of. At least the Wii U gamepad with off screen play had a tangible use for kids who wanted to keep playing while their parents watched TV

Sure, as long as you stayed in the same room, and didn't mind hearing the tv your parents were watching at the same time.
Poorly executed concept. Half baked.

Wii U was a mess of different controllers for various games, too many power outlets needed, a giant octopus of wires. Problem made worse with other systems hooked up. A hardrive because Nintendo was so generous in allowing me the freedom to decide my storage space. Thanks Reggie. You still charged 300 dollars for the system though.

I considered Botw for it but I don't think I can be bothered to hook the thing up.

 

[The Hermit]

To those saying the WiiU is great, can you name a worse console from Nintendo?

 

[Glowsquid]

[*]Vs. Wii: Wii U is stronger at everything except arguably equal on Mario and admittedly doesn't have a unique Zelda game like Wii's Skyward Sword

wario am cry

 

[clevbrowns94]

To those saying the WiiU is great, can you name a worse console from Nintendo?

I think it was better than the Wii. But then again, I'm not a fan of the motion controls. I would have loved the Wii if you had the option to use a pro controller (and one with an actual in unit battery, not the classic controller) on every game, but I know a lot of games wouldn't have worked without motion controls. Should have at least worked for games like Mario Galaxy.

 

[Mega]

To those saying the WiiU is great, can you name a worse console from Nintendo?

You're gonna get responses like N64 and Wii from people who aren't at all aware that both of those consoles have much deeper libraries than Wii U. Like I said earlier, if you compare "top 100" lists for N64 and Wii U, it becomes shockingly apparently that Wii U's list sort of peters out after the top 20-30 and the rest is filled with indie ports and crap, whereas N64 throughout has unique A/mid-tier titles for which there are no equivalents on Wii U.

 

[Suburban Thug]

OP is reaching so hard. Wii U was a colossal failure and deservedly so. It's a great system if all you want to do is play Nintendo 1st party games and don't care about extreme droughts. Or the crappy, overpriced controller with a terrible screen that drove up the price of the system. Or the laughable online infrastructure compared to PS3/360/Steam.

Honestly, the only other people in real life I know who bought the thing are extreme Nintendo Stans. I'm talking about the type of person who is in their mid 20's and wears Pokemon shirts to non-gaming social events. This is purely anecdotal evidence but when I would bring my Wii U over to a friends place and ask them if they'd ever buy one the answer was almost always no. Reasons listed were the price, dumb name which made some think it was a peripheral, and lack of compelling software.

Honestly, Wii U is my most disliked Nintendo console by a country mile. I've owned all of them except for the SNES, Virtual Boy, 3DS and Switch.

 

[Shil Pencer]

its not

 

[Brandson]

Since getting a Switch, I disconnected the WiiU from my main tv. As an experiment, I moved it to near where we eat meals in the kitchen and gave the gamepad to my 5 year old son (who up to this point hasn't gotten much out of gamepad-controlled games). Ever since, he has been really excitedly playing the various Mario games directly on the gamepad (no tv), and is super psyched to try Star Fox and all the other WiiU games I have. This could be a preview of things to come when Switch gets a bigger game library. So in addition to the great game library, off-tv play on WiiU gives it opportunity for an extended life.

 

[FinalAres]

The problem for Nintendo was the Wii was successful for reasons that were extremely difficult to replicated. Microsoft ran into the same buzzsaw with Kinect. Nintendo could have had success making a Kinect like device, but that goes against their culture of being conservative with their tech. They refine what is already out there. They don't blaze a new trail.

What they should have done is refined the Wii. Improved the controllers, upped the graphics, and let it be a WiiHD. Sometimes evolution is as good as revolution.

In fact one of my favourite things about the Switch is that the controllers are like optimised Wiimotes. I prefer having my hands separated and relaxed, but the Wii's non standard controls were a pain.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Motion controls are trash. End of. At least the Wii U gamepad with off screen play had a tangible use for kids who wanted to keep playing while their parents watched TV

Motion controls are merely a tool. It's how you use it that's the problem. Red Steel 2 and Wii Sports for example are very good examples of good Motion Controls.

 

[Chezzymann]

I thought it was okay. Obviously not one of the best consoles but a lot of good gems. Super Mario 3D world, Smash Bros 4, Mario kart 8, pikmin 3, Splatoon, Mario Maker, and Breath of the Wild were fantastic and made the console worth it for me. Miiverse was neat too and I spent a lot of time on that. Off TV was neat but the screen sucks. Objectively its a weak console.

 

[Chronospherics]

Donkey Kong and Xenoblade are not 2nd/3rd party.

Retro Studios and Monolith Soft are wholly owned subsidiaries of Nintendo and proper 1st party studios, and each have been for the majority of their existences (Retro since 6 months before they ever even shipped a game).

Why does this need to be said so much on GAF of all places?

The guy I replied to said it, I just used his categorisation. It wasn't really an integral component of the post, the status of the studios doesn't change the number of good games output onto the systme.

 

[wild wild rice]

Its library got me back into Nintendo. I don't really give a shit about hardware if the games are good.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I feel like the take-away from this thread is that the Wii U's appeal is very subjective. It's okay to think it's the best thing ever just as much as it's okay to think it's the worst thing ever and it's okay to fall anywhere in between, and having either opinion isn't correct or incorrect.

 

[Mugy]

What can you people say about Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge. Its really that bad?

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

What exactly are you looking for? A vigorous defence for the GameCube disc format? You won't get one from me. I highlighted the GameCube in order to point out that even when Nintendo achieves parity in terms of power there's always a reason why it doesn't matter. In this case the disc format. Like suddenly everyone forgot how to compress textures and it's impossible to port games to the system. But oh, this PS2 thing? Yeah, we'll spend as long as it takes optimising the code to make sure our stuff runs fast and well on that! It's the market leader after all!

Except when Nintendo has the machine which is the market leader. In which case the exact opposite of what you'd expect to happen happens. Like, yeah, the install base is huge but it's a weird machine and our audience isn't there and anyway we're focusing our attention on other types of games.

Each of those excuses can be a perfectly legitimate point but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the entire industry seems to think this way and I don't know why pointing that out generates so much outrage. Maybe it's easier or more fun to make yet another Nintendoomed argument than question the status quo.

Just wondering what your defense was. What causes "outrage" is acting like Nintendo is owed 3rd party support and them not providing for as you say legitimate reasons is a sign that there is some vast anti-Nintendo conspiracy in the industry. The issue is discussed because Nintendo could get 3rd party support if they weren't so idiosyncratic.

Anyways, my long and mostly redundant responses to Nintendo's problems each gen follow.

More than the tiny discs was brought up, and no compression wasn't forgotten. Even with regular 3rd party ports the sound was usually compressed to hell and back on the GCN version to fit. I owned a lot of 3rd party GCN games and a lot of stuff was compressed or missing. There was also the controller with non-standard and fewer inputs (which I loved btw), lack of real online, and the weird split RAM setup (32MB PS2, 64MB Xbox, 24 fast-16 very slow- 2/1 buffer for the GCN). 3rd parties made every effort to get games running on the PS2 because it released a year earlier and was curbstomping every competitor in sight. Why bother with the GCN? Also Nintendo had higher licensing fees and stricter payment terms (I could be mistaken but I recall reading Nintendo's terms were cash while Sony and MS did various net30/60/90). 3rd parties did support the Xbox but that was due to its simple PC architecture, native online when that was just becoming big, standard controller, Anglosphere focus, and rumored moneyhats. Anyways, the GCN still received major 3rd party support until sales dropped off later.

As for Wii it doesn't really require mention but I will anyways. It was never the hardware leader as the PS360 unified ecosystem always lead it and ended up outselling it 1.6:1. Adding in PC it was much larger. The 1st party focus diminished things further. Not to mention none of the shader based engines 3rd parties were using worked on the Wii. The completely different controller and pathetic online after it was firmly established didn't help things.

The Wii U was, well, the Wii U. It was another last gen system after 3rd parties had moved on. Even worse it was architecturally the opposite of last-gen systems being relatively GPU strong versus CPU strong so 3rd party engines didn't easily transfer over. Given its sales and again 1st party focus it's not surprising it was largely ignored.

 

[kpaadet]

I feel like the take-away from this thread is that the Wii U's appeal is very subjective. It's okay to think it's the best thing ever just as much as it's okay to think it's the worst thing ever and it's okay to fall anywhere in between, and having either opinion isn't correct or incorrect.

Thanks for explaining how opinions work dad.

 

[Peltz]

It's definitely in the top 3 of its generation.

I actually put it slightly above the PS4 library-wise (they're almost even in my opinion).

 

[Euler007]

Most of the arguments point to Nintendo being a stellar software developer (which they are), instead of being a good hardware developer (which they are not). Good I wish Sony would sign a deal with them to port their games to PS4.