Fancy Clown
Member
These look totally fine to me. All the dialogue works fine in context.
English speakers don't talk like that in either example. Translation is about more than just imparting the necessary information.
These look totally fine to me. All the dialogue works fine in context.
These look totally fine to me. All the dialogue works fine in context.
There is nothing wrong with either of those lines.
English editors around the world are crying right now. GAF, don't make me lose any more faith in the literacy of the English speaking world.
Well, we could be worse of. We could have a 'perfect English' translation where entire lines are have an entirely different meaning and content than in the Japanese original.
Like in Valkyria Chronicles 1, wonder how many people noticed it there.
Translators sticking too literally to the original has it's share of problems, but at least you can be sure you actually get a translated version of what's in the Japanese script even if stilted, not something else.
We could have a 'perfect English' translation where entire lines are have an entirely different meaning and content than in the Japanese original.
Like in Valkyria Chronicles 1, wonder how many people noticed it there.
Valkyria Chronicles has one of the best localization efforts on the market.
A good translation does not translate words. Words are tools used to express feelings or ideas, and translating them directly instead of getting at the intent of what was said will very frequently miss the mark.
err... what
It has serious mistakes in its translation.Valkyria Chronicles has one of the best localization efforts on the market.
This, thanks for the writeup, couldn't have it summed up better.VC1 in Japanese has a dry script so the localizers went to town on it, but they went at it with a little too much gusto and incorrectly translated chunks of dialogue and rewrote character personalities.
One example; one of the characters is actually portrayed as a villain in Japanese with his text and dialogue, but his tone was changed to be friendly in English, so part of the ending doesn't make sense. Could go on but don't want to go too far off topic.
Like literally one point in the final cutscene where Alicia saysinstead of ありがとう,イサラ = "Thank you, Isara" when they are escaping on the flying machine. That's a pretty big deviation in meaning from the original, especially considering how easy they could have literally tranlated the sentence and it would have been perfectly fine in all regards ¯_(ツ_/Rest in peace!
Valkyria Chronicles has one of the best localization efforts on the market.
A good translation does not translate words. Words are tools used to express feelings or ideas, and translating them directly instead of getting at the intent of what was said will very frequently miss the mark.
VC1 in Japanese has a dry script so the localizers went to town on it, but they went at it with a little too much gusto and incorrectly translated chunks of dialogue and rewrote character personalities.
One example; one of the characters is actually portrayed as a villain in Japanese with his text and dialogue, but his tone was changed to be friendly in English, so part of the ending doesn't make sense. Could go on but don't want to go too far off topic.
Do the Japanese actually pronounce "Sakamoto" like "Sa-KA-moto"? That always throws me off in Persona 5. I thought it was pronounced with no emphasis on any syllable, like "Sa-ka-mo-to".
Yes, I agreeI mean, you're one of the people who prefer Final Fantasy Tactics's original translation (riddled with inaccuracies as it is) over the one made for War of the Lions, apparently because of a notion that the original translation is closer to the Japanese original
So you probably just has great taste in localizations tbqh
I am not sure about very frequently, but it does sound clumsy doing a direct translation, although direct is probably also a bit exaggerated. That would probably fall into the category of Google translation. The general idea is to read the sentence once and then localize it so that you don't have to look at it again, ideally speaking. Something like "transcreation".
Sure, but nobody ever said that you could only have either a localization that scans well or one that is accurate. It's perfectly possible to have both, and that's what we should expect from professional developers.Speaking of translations that went to far, FFXIV's english localization team rewrote and mishandled one of the coolest side characters in the game. It was so botched that it got to the point where the writers killed that character off because of how out of sync they were with every other version of the game.
I'd rather have an awkward but authentic translation. Beauty and flow are important, but those things do not take priority over the truth.
When we can have both, sure. The problem is no language perfectely translates into another language, and translators often have to lean one way or the other. In those instances, l'm saying I would prefer they lean towards authenticity rather then accessibility. At least when it comes to characterization and themes. The localization of jelly donuts and hamburgers doesn't bother me as much.Sure, but nobody ever said that you could only have either a localization that scans well or one that is accurate. It's perfectly possible to have both, and that's what we should expect from professional developers.
I think of it this way: if a writer could find a better way of expressing something, they'd be the first to abandon their own words. An adaptor (wherever they fall on the literal-liberal spectrum) needs to respect author intent, but purely literal translations almost never do that. Getting precious with the original word choice only makes for a worse product.The point is that it's clear that people in this discussion seem to care more about whether a character's words are represented "accurately" rather than their intent, which will, yes, very frequently lead you to a suboptimal result. You use the tools of a given language to communicate. The words you say aren't necessarily perfect approximations of what you're thinking, either. If a translator can get at what the character is trying to say and express it naturally in the target language, then they will get a better result.
tl;dr: people are way too concerned with whether the translated text covers all of the words in the original text, when that isn't what's important.
Do the Japanese actually pronounce "Sakamoto" like "Sa-KA-moto"? That always throws me off in Persona 5. I thought it was pronounced with no emphasis on any syllable, like "Sa-ka-mo-to".
That is not realistic for a game of any significant scale. I mean it's like saying you should only have one concept artist for all monster designs to maintain consistency. Sounds good on paper but when you have actual deadlines... not so much?
How is promoting a game that's only on your platforms interesting?Interesting choice of post, on Sony's part, to advertise P5.
Wonder if it's a coincidence.
Just another case of GAF blowing things out of proportion.
Cant let a game be received entirely positively without some shit slinging.
Just another case of someone being unable to cope with reasonable criticism.
Speaking of translations that went to far, FFXIV's english localization team rewrote and mishandled one of the coolest side characters in the game. It was so botched that it got to the point where the writers killed that character off because of how out of sync they were with every other version of the game.
I'd rather have an awkward but authentic translation. Beauty and flow are important, but those things do not take priority over the truth.
The problem is that this isn't really where the tradeoff is made. Generally, when you have a clunky localization like Persona 5 seems to be, it's not because the localizers consciously wanted to avoid being overly colloquial. What's happening is that they're taking the Japanese dialogue and just keeping it wholecloth. It very much feels like they didn't have enough time to iron out all the kinks.When we can have both, sure. The problem is no language perfectely translates into another language, and translators often have to lean one way or the other. In those instances, l'm saying I would prefer they lean towards authenticity rather then accessibility. At least when it comes to characterization and themes. The localization of jelly donuts and hamburgers doesn't bother me as much.
Definitely. Once upon a time, I tried to read the translation for one of my favorite books and I couldn't last more than a few pages because of the decisions of the translator. Ideally, you'd want a localizer whose writing is as good as the writer of the original work. And that's going to be hard to achieve if the original is well written.I stand by the "translation as art" side of the aisle. Converting the language to speak more aptly to those consuming it is a hell of a task but totally worth it when done right
Just another case of someone being unable to cope with reasonable criticism.
How is promoting a game that's only on your platforms interesting?
Introduced in 2.0, and takes on a somewhat larger role in 3.0 -lol, which one? FFXIV is pretty infamous for the weird rewrites of many story moments.
And the more I see of Persona 5's translation, the more I have to agree with that criticism. I know that literal translations lack subtlety and nuance. It's why I try to stick to using the term authenticity. I don't mind the use of Japanese honorifics and suffixes in the English text and dubbing. I find value in trying to emulate the experience as accurately as possible. Grammatical errors and poor sentence structure doesn't play into that all. It's just a shoddy job.The problem is that this isn't really where the tradeoff is made. Generally, when you have a clunky localization like Persona 5 seems to be, it's not because the localizers consciously wanted to avoid being overly colloquial. What's happening is that they're taking the Japanese dialogue and just keeping it wholecloth. It very much feels like they didn't have enough time to iron out all the kinks.
Idk no Japanese so who knows but I do take issue with everyone using Igor's lines specifically as examples.
It'd be like people making fun of Yoda's lines in the Japanese dub of SW because his syntax isn't correct Japanese.
http://i.imgur.com/iyVSavR.jpg?fb[img]
flashbacks to endless discussions about the final fantasy x ending :([/QUOTE]
I only heard about that thing with FFX recently. Love the ending as it is in English, but I thought the original was a lot better. [spoiler]Yuna saying "Thank you" shows that she's moving on from Tidus. His reaction to those words was pretty apt too.[/spoiler]
As for the topic, are there even ANY kind of literal translation that works? I've only done super super basic study of Japanese, but even from that, anyone can say literal translation is impossible.
Said it before but this is a terrible sentiment to have.yes teh localization isn't great, but i havent minded it. 20 hrs in and the game is fantastic. i'd take this localization over no localization...
I see no problems so far. People like to complain about everything these days. Sad!
The only sad thing are people too stupid to recognize legit criticism and fanboy it up.
I learned Japanese for Persona and can I recognize issues. Like Jesus can we like not be blind to stuff like that. Doesn't mean this ruins the game but really for absolutely every game there seem to be people defending the most idiotic things. MEA animations, FFXV story, P5 streaming limitations, etc etc like what is wrong with you people.
Some of those lines posted didn't stand out me. It gets rough on occasion, but it's being blown way out of proportion IMO.
These teenagers are the most straightforward wordsy teens I've even met though. Ryuji is a bit better than Ann, but even he has some odd lines that just sound like something a teenager would never say to another teen.
I've played for three hours and, so far, I have zero complaints regarding the localization. Just wanted to make my voice heard (no pun intended).
20 hours in it so far, and I have to say that localization has done a great job.
Sure, there may be a few lines that are off, but everything I've seen so far make sense and doesn't seem convoluted. I understand a lot of Japanese phrases from self taught, and I don't hear anything that's completely off that I would get a lot when watching anime fansubs.
I don't have any strong opinion about the localisation yet as the game is huge and these could be ultimately very small chunks of a game with a lot of text. But please, if you speak english, stop telling me that
this is a natural phrasing in English. I have never heard someone say they will 'answer someone's expectations'. In fact, this phrase is probably a localization of
期待に応える
which is just about literally 'answer (someone's) expectations'. When I put that phrase into google, the first result is a J-E web dictionary that says the primary translations are to live up to expectations; to meet expectations.
Yeah no... I am not even a native speaker and I found the translation to be clunky. There is a difference between authenticity and Google translate.