Lord of Ostia
Member
He makes great videos, will definitely give it a watch later.
How do you constructively address "the combat is so bad"? Youre already starting from a useless qualitative statement, itself with no underlying support.
To meet that kind of criticism on its own level, you got to channel your inner fourth grade recess and snort "nu-uh!!"
It's intentionally provocative and does not signal good intent, or a willingness to have a conversation.
That's what i'm excited about. BotW was a solid 8/10 for me. I expect the next one will be even better if they build upon this awesome foundation.The great thing about BotW is, unlike SS, the game's foundation is incredibly solid and is ripe for refinement and overall improvement. The next open-air Zelda game is going to be something to behold. Can't wait.
Developers not listening to the players would have prevented BOTW from ever happening
Shame he starts off with the one point I can longer stand and stop at whenever it shows up. "X isn't proper Zelda" I have heard this damn argument used against, in "look at how detached I am and super smart" against ever single Zelda game.
It is a meaningless line of argument and I wish people would get over it. Esdpiacly sinceit carries, unintentionally, a nasty subtext "Oh you like Zelda games for X, but I have declared X isn't what Zelda is about? Guess you don't like Zelda the right way!" No one means to say that, but its buried in there. And is great example of how little thought so many vaunted game crtics actually put into their arguments.
He brings up a lot of good points about how bad the combat in the game is.
except its not as long as you're appraoching encounters multi-dimensionally with melee weapons, bows, rune powers and environmental nuance.
i constantly felt organically encouraged to weave those elements together in my approaches. I guess many didn't? ¯\_(ツ_/¯
once I got a solid feel on how to properly bait and wrangle together collections of dudes, exploiting the lesser AI of the grunts against the leader enemies and disarming them, what began as challenging and occasionally frustrating turned in to living up to the role of sworn knighted chief royal guard. I leveled up through raw proficiency, not exp bars and simple stat increases (which isnt to say those are totally absent either)
I'm only five minutes into the video and he seems a bit... extreme in both his position of the game and the verbiage he uses to describe his experiences.
He first bemoans the "perfect scores" and "10/10's", saying the game has "huge critical problems" that somehow 60+ reviewers "ignored". So either it's a conspiracy (he obviously doesn't think that, but here we are), or these "problems" aren't as problematic to the vast majority of players as it was to him.
And it's fine that he can have those problems. But it was a bit of an odd rail against the other reviewers/opinions of the game that stuck out immediately (I mean, it's basically his introduction).
He then goes on to call some aspects of the game "unfinished", calling the developers who were involved in the areas he criticizes a "team of amateurs". Later on he says that in fact that some parts of this game are "diseased" (He's made it very clear so far that he absolutely abhors the shrines haha).
Ok, this isn't a problem (why would combat change? It's expansion depends on how you use the tools the game gives you)or true if we're talking how the AI changes based on their color. Also please name a single non Ganon/SkywardSword fight in a 3d zelda that's as hard as a camp of black and white bokoblins.well 95% of every intriguing destination leads to a shrine or korok seed for one thing. The game never builds on anything is the problem. Puzzle design rarely ever iterates on an idea to any significant degree or does anything worthwhile in terms of combining multiple concepts. Hell, as far as the divine beasts go the gerudo one is the only one that has a second layer to its puzzle design. Combat never really changes either and there is never a point where the game hits any sort of climax whether you're talking about the gameplay, the narrative, or even the music.
BOTW might be the most disappointing game ive ever played. Got a Wiiu at launch because its a safe bet there will be a Zelda on every Nintendo console.The trailers looked great, all these fun looking characters and scenes, only to find out they're all just optional flashbacks and don't amount to anything. Its essentially a Hyrule Carnival where you dick about until you want to go home ie. beat the main boss, which to some people seems to be the greatest game ever but its definitely not for everyone.
That sounds like gibberish. Every open world game is just one big dungeon by your meter.
You're comparing 100% optional content with designed, directed, and necessary dungeons.
eh, that stuff is ok in the beginning but when you're hundreds of hours in trying to get other things done it just isn't worth the worth the time or effort for the minimal amount of extra entertainment it provides. The game just doesn't take into account that once players have gotten accustomed to the world and are just trying to work towards various goals that a lot of its systems become annoyances or just kind of pointless once they no longer really serve their purpose that they did earlier on. If the game actually evolved as you do this wouldn't have been such an issue but instead the game just stagnates much earlier than it really should.
disagree, especially about the time/effort part. Herbosa's fury in particular helps create situations where, when used optimally, Link is a god damn wrecking ball. Get in, get some gems from silver dudes, a nice drgaonbone fresh weapon for the rotating 'throwaway slot' and move on. But fair enough. what you feel as 'minimal amount of extra entertainment' I find quite the opposite, continually finding faster ways to Rambo through hordes.
moving forward and accomplishing late game goals still needs resistance and obstacles. Where before a player (like me) may've found themselves in harsh cold conditions with a big ol camp of moblins, bokoblins, and a wizrobe over a small hill and thought' yea I'm not going to comb over this stretch and explore just yet', later game me is licking his lips to unleash hell
does this video include proper credit paid to how great shield surfing is during discussion of traversal and exploration? it's pulled off so fantastically and meshes with the glider so well.
Ok, this isn't a problem (why would combat change? It's expansion depends on how you use the tools the game gives you)or true if we're talking how the AI changes based on their color. Also please name a single non Ganon/SkywardSword fight in a 3d zelda that's as hard as a camp of black and white bokoblins.
And the entire world being a dungeon is true when the whole thing is handcrafted to hold little nooks and secrets, handwaving the shrines away like their puzzles don't dwarf the push-block-remember-hallways sequence of past zeldas doesn't mean they offer nothing; especially when past games only got you rupees or heart pieces.
It sounds like you probably liked Twilight Princess a lot, which was disappointing for me in 2006. BOTW is Zelda finally shaking things up, which was long overdue. Another linear story with a linear dungeon progression sounds boring to me.
I think you can stay away from this series now lol
sorry, we fundamentally disagree. Dont find combat clunky, also why do you selectively only talk about magnesis when bringing up runes in combat when bombs and stasis are far more useful in such cases. The later not just for buying time and getting hits in, but setting up hilarious friendly fire scenariosYou can say the game plateaus at the... plateau.
black and white bokoblins aren't any harder than the red ones. Just flurry rush them to death like you do everything else.
This topic has been on my mind a lot recently and this is a fairly interesting solution. My biggest complaint with BotW is the shrines. I've found them to be way too easy and I'm not really sure how you solve that. Nintendo is never going to stop making Zelda games accessible to a wide audience, but throughout my BotW playthrough, I never felt like the shrines posed any real challenge.I really love his idea about shrines not always being set, but being on a difficulty group and you get a random shrine from that difficulty group until you beat the group and get more difficult ones. Hopefully Nintendo goes with that idea in the next BotW type Zelda.
Or, they can just not used the Master Sword and just used other weapons for challenge sake. I mean, it isn't like you're forced to used it once you get it.
eh, that stuff is ok in the beginning but when you're hundreds of hours in trying to get other things done it just isn't worth the worth the time or effort for the minimal amount of extra entertainment it provides. The game just doesn't take into account that once players have gotten accustomed to the world and are just trying to work towards various goals that a lot of its systems become annoyances or just kind of pointless once they no longer really serve their purpose that they did earlier on. If the game actually evolved as you do this wouldn't have been such an issue but instead the game just stagnates much earlier than it really should.
The thing is the game isn't hard even if you don't build yourself up. The whole game is pretty much designed for players at the base level to succeed. The fact that every encounter can accomplished with the base techniques, that also happen to be super effective, means that the game can never really build up to anything substantial. It's just continually flat or a downward slope if you do decide to engage with the main quest and side stuff. It pretty much punishes everyone since doing the whole speed run/3 heart thing is actually something laid out for you instead of a being worthwhile challenge that you conquer by exceptional execution and mastery of the game's underlying systems, etc.
Developers not listening to the players would have prevented BOTW from ever happening
I really don't agree with his assertion that Shrines having more than one solution is a negative. Personally, that was the single best thing about the game. It gives you a toolset, puts you in front of an obstacle, and let's you use any means at your disposal to overcome that obstacle. Part of why Zelda was beginning to feel stale was the one puzzle=one solution design they had for the dungeons. The greatest strength BoTW has is allowing the player to creatively combine the toolset on their own to discover clever solutions to obstacles. In fact, this design ethos applies to nearly every aspect of the game, and it is the main reason why it reviewed so well.
The thing is the game isn't hard even if you don't build yourself up. The whole game is pretty much designed for players at the base level to succeed. The fact that every encounter can accomplished with the base techniques, that also happen to be super effective, means that the game can never really build up to anything substantial. It's just continually flat or a downward slope if you do decide to engage with the main quest and side stuff. It pretty much punishes everyone since doing the whole speed run/3 heart thing is actually something laid out for you instead of a being worthwhile challenge that you conquer by exceptional execution and mastery of the game's underlying systems, etc.
But part of that multi-dimensional approach is not forcing you to engage at all. Because there isn't an XP bar you don't feel any obligation to engage the enemies. If it is a relatively low level group, you have decent weapons (so fighting them may be a downgrade or at best a side grade), and you have business to attend to elsewhere- then just avoid them.
Theyou can buy helps with this too.masks
A big part of this game. that the video briefly hints at but doesn't deep dive on, is the idea that the combat is more fun the more creatively you approach it. To me, the game rewards creative gameplay as part of their multiplicative design philosophy. Some people defeated all the bosses by keeping their distance and spamming bomb arrows. Some players want to find the most direct solution and then repeat that over and over. But to me, BOTW rewards experimentation in a kind of "create your own fun" way in combat and traversal.
Well there are normal weapons that do the same/more damage than the master sword. Although any 'big hitters' I've found are all clunky slow two-handers so the master sword has the advantage of being a faster weapon to nt know if you get stronger one-handed normal weapons later in the game?
Yeah, that's why l thought his comments about his first Lynel encounter were weak. He complains about the weapons durability system preventing him from defeating the Lynel despite him being skilled enough to do so which in turn discouraged him from exploring but this isn't a flaw in game design, it's just him coming to a wrong conclusion. Had he kept exploring, which is a pretty natural incentive due to how forgiving the save system is, he'd have realized Lynels are rare enemies in the area and the level design makes it so you can spot them very early and climb or run around them. Then he might have found better weapons lying around in the area and used them to defeat the Lynel, even with his early game inventory space.
Also, if he was so skilled, he would beat the Lynel regardless of the weapon durability. Good weapons are easy to find once you know where to look and you can mark locations on your map. Sounds like he's just whining because he doesn't want to waste his precious special weapons like how you horde those rare healing items in RPGs until the final or bonus boss. If he wants to beat Lynel, waste him with an ancient arrow. They're expensive and you won't get the drops, but hey, easy kill and you don't waste weapons.
The battle system in Breath of the Wild isn't the best or my favorite in the series, but calling it 'bad' is just a step too far. And I hate the 'not a real Zelda' game with a burning passion. It reminds me of people who claim that there are no good Zelda games after the first one or Ocarina of Time killed the 'real Zelda'. Because if you like those 'not real Zelda games' you're obviously not a 'true' fan of the series. Seriously, screw off.
There are absolutely damage sponges. White enemies take a lot of hits to down without introducing any added complexity to the encounter. You just have to hit them more, in most cases a lot more, and that is the very definition of a "bullet sponge."
Whether or not it bothers you as a player is another question entirely, but I think it's fair to say most players generally dislike enemies that demand more hits but no extra strategy.
Also, if he was so skilled, he would beat the Lynel regardless of the weapon durability. Good weapons are easy to find once you know where to look and you can mark locations on your map. Sounds like he's just whining because he doesn't want to waste his precious special weapons like how you horde those rare healing items in RPGs until the final or bonus boss. If he wants to beat Lynel, waste him with an ancient arrow. They're expensive and you won't get the drops, but hey, easy kill and you don't waste weapons.
The battle system in Breath of the Wild isn't the best or my favorite in the series, but calling it 'bad' is just a step too far. And I hate the 'not a real Zelda' game with a burning passion. It reminds me of people who claim that there are no good Zelda games after the first one or Ocarina of Time killed the 'real Zelda'. Because if you like those 'not real Zelda games' you're obviously not a 'true' fan of the series. Seriously, screw off.
There are absolutely damage sponges. White enemies take a lot of hits to down without introducing any added complexity to the encounter. You just have to hit them more, in most cases a lot more, and that is the very definition of a "bullet sponge."
Whether or not it bothers you as a player is another question entirely, but I think it's fair to say most players generally dislike enemies that demand more hits but no extra strategy.
Except Doom is 99% about combat while it's maybe a 30% slice of BotW (if that). You seriously hardly ever even need to engage in combat unless you want to, and there are easy ways to work around the problem of big HP enemies. Attack buffs, bombs, arrows, critical hits as weapons break.. that's how I defeated a Lynel very early on even with poor gear. It's the player's fault in the youtuber's case for not understanding the systems and making a lot of poor conclusions based on running into a dangerous enemy early on.Hoarding weapons to beat an enemy who has an over abundance of hp is no fun, the combat would be okay if the enemies would be more complex, the basic moblins are joy to watch while they scramble around the battlefield but they pose no threat to you. Lynels are the only monsters that have a decent number of moves, but with the low enemy variety and basic moves it really doesn't do the game any favors.
Encounters in breath of the wild feels like if in Doom you would only fight imps the whole game with a cyber demon sprinkled in every now and then.
He's spent the effort to figure out how damage and armor scaling works, and he points out how fodder enemies in the late game can deal more damage than the final boss, which is problematic.
he always give insightful and thorough reviews so I'll definitely watch later. I just wish he would break his video to chapters.
When he said NMS was a tedious mediocre game, the reactions from the defense force was hilarious, so this should be fun.
I disagree on his points of the shrines, love how they are implemented and having multiple ways of solving them is actually really good instead of being forced to do it one way by removing abilities that might "cheese" the puzzle.
I agree on many of his points though but as usual I believe Joseph is a bit nitpicky and I prefer mathewmatosis, gamemaker's toolkit and Noah Gervais over his analysis in most cases.
I agree with you completely, he has some solid points but he goes too far in how he expresses it and also goes in hard on an aspect that is oftenly liked by people (the shrines) and states how they are bad as a fact without really proving it.
Breath of the Wild is undoubtedly the best open world game I have ever played, when I am playing it as an open world game. It has so many smart decisions.
Except Doom is 99% about combat while it's maybe a 30% slice of BotW (if that). You seriously hardly ever even need to engage in combat unless you want to, and there are easy ways to work around the problem of big HP enemies. Attack buffs, bombs, arrows, critical hits as weapons break.. that's how I defeated a Lynel very early on even with poor gear. It's the player's fault in the youtuber's case for not understanding the systems and making a lot of poor conclusions based on running into a dangerous enemy early on.
And while more complex/varied enemies wouldn't be a bad thing, the combat variety is ultimately something in the player's hands. At 150+ hours in I'm hardly engaging in actual combat anymore. An enemy encampment never knows what hit them as I drop in from above, snipe sentries with arrow time, hit explosive barrels, and then Urbosa the hell out of the survivors. It's 10-15 seconds. It never stops being fun to me, but if it did I surely would have avoided combat more since that's fully possible too. If all you're doing is rushing in with your sword and flurry rushing I can see how things would get stagnant after a while.
I mean, this looks pretty cool to me.
https://youtu.be/zntiMv1c8m4