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[AtomskEater]

The site is called "How Atlas Fails Fans".

A customer can be failed by a localization that isn't up to par, especially considering Atlus has done much better in the past. "Atlus has failed fans (by delivering something not up to their usual high standards)" does not equal "it's flat out bad."

Even then, I feel the website's subtitle is a little hyperbolic, but people like to focus on feeling that the game they're enjoying is being unfairly attacked by bullies rather than trying to parse what people are actually criticizing. It's a good game with a lot of weird translation issues. Tiny issues, usually, but it adds up.

I've never seen this particular dish called anything BUT yakisoba-pan on restaurant menus, etc. And I live in east Tennessee, which is not an area that is particularly known for having a large Japanese-American population.

Also, a quick Google search turned up plenty of Google videos calling it "yakisoba-pan" while teaching people how to make it, so I have to think I'm far from alone in that experience..

I think it's more a consistency issue. For other pan items they translated it as "bread", for yakisoba (and I think melon?) pan they kept it as "pan". I think translating it as bread would be fine, but some items are translated that way and some aren't.

 

[bigjig]

Yeah, this is quite well done. The localisation really is not up to scratch.

But consider this point.

The scenes were likely split up by translator, and the mistakes are very clearly made by someone who is not a native speaker of English.

That should make it very easy for Atlus to pinpoint the exact 'culprit.' But then what happens to this person? Do they lose their job? Does the editor cop the blame?

Is this worth it to us that much?

As someone who is a freelance translator from Japanese to English myself (although in a field unrelated to games) I wouldn't completely discount the possibility that these translation issues are the result of Atlus Japan having the final say over what goes in the translation. I've worked with a lot of Japanese clients and while the vast majority of them are fine, there's occasionally a client that thinks they are better at English than they actually are, resulting in them unwittingly introducing a whole bunch of errors into the translation when checking it.

 

[Joeku]

It's all in the VA direction. Extremely important and underappreciated

Yeah, I meant that genuinely. It's effing crazy how different those performances come off in the two games.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I've never seen this particular dish called anything BUT yakisoba-pan on restaurant menus, etc. And I live in east Tennessee, which is not an area that is particularly known for having a large Japanese-American population.

Also, a quick Google search turned up plenty of Google videos calling it "yakisoba-pan" while teaching people how to make it, so I have to think I'm far from alone in that experience..

Wait what? What kind of restaurant, anywhere, serves that? Like you actually go to a sit-down restaurant, are handed a menu, you make a choice, and the waitress brings you a sliced roll full of stir-fried noodles? On a plate? That actually happened?

 

[hemo memo]

I don't know why they didn't just contract 8-4P to do the job and done.

 

[Joeku]

I don't know why they didn't just contract 8-4P to do the job and done.

They were too busy making Nier Automata amazing, apparently, but I still have yet to play that so I can't be sure.

That's just what I heard.

Edit:8-4 produced "Make America Great Again" in a sort-of-relevant capacity in early 2013, so I'll never not give them the benefit of the doubt in terms of prescience. I wish they'd had their hands on P5.

 

[Moonlight]

I don't know why we need to bring up other localization teams. 8-4 are obviously fantastic at their job, but it's not like Atlus has historically been anything other than stellar. Even as soon as SMT4:A last year (and ignoring that, admittedly, bad oversight with the untranslated text), the quality of that script was really good.

 

[BamFuller]

Good read, thanks for sharing.

 

[Rhaknar]

Ehh the exam part of the game is super dumb. If the game was teaching you the Japanese history and idioms then it'd be aight. But the quizzes just throw questions at you there's no chance you'd know. The game clearly expects some of those to be common knowledge, but they aren't. So don't ask about the American Revolution, but maybe ask about Admiral Perry, or something an American might've encountered.

Would you then have a european version of the questions? Because I dont know who the fuck Admiral Perry was.

But then do you have a English version, a French version, a German version etc?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

By any standard, Persona 5's translation has memes in it.

It makes sense in context, so it doesn't bother me. But some people have a weirdly hard-line stance against memes.

Memes as a substitute for actual humor in localization are terrible, but Futaba is supposed to be a net nerd and uses message board talk in the JP version too so those instances are forgivable.

 

[Kinsei]

Ehh the exam part of the game is super dumb. If the game was teaching you the Japanese history and idioms then it'd be aight. But the quizzes just throw questions at you there's no chance you'd know. The game clearly expects some of those to be common knowledge, but they aren't. So don't ask about the American Revolution, but maybe ask about Admiral Perry, or something an American might've encountered.

They do teach you stuff for the exams though. If you pay attention in class then you'll know all of the answers come exam time. You can get caught off guard when the teacher suddenly calls on you in class but that's kinda the point of those questions.

 

[DVCY201]

They do teach you stuff for the exams though. If you pay attention in class then you'll know all of the answers come exam time. You can get caught off guard when the teacher suddenly calls on you in class but that's kinda the point of those questions.

Nah man, I gotta increase my knowledge so I can do all of the woo'ing. Touch that Touchpad for the right answer every time

 

[Phu]

lol at the 20 copies of translating "shoganai" as, literally, "it can't be helped"

"Well, what can ya do?"
"Shit happens."
"Guess we'll just have to roll with it."
"That's just how it is..."
"It is what it is..."
"Not worth fighting it."
"It's happening whether we like it or not"
"We'll manage."
"If that's how it's gotta be"
"Shit sucks, but whatever"
"We'll just have to ..."

That's right, Atlus, I spent upwards of five minutes thinking up alternatives and I didn't even have any context to draw from.

 

[Kurdel]

Was this the real reason they turned off sharing with this game 🤔

 

[Joeku]

"Well, what can ya do?"
"Shit happens."
"Guess we'll just have to roll with it."
"That's just how it is..."
"It is what it is..."
"Not worth fighting it."
"It's happening whether we like it or not"
"We'll manage."
"If that's how it's gotta be"
"Shit sucks, but whatever"
"We'll just have to ..."

That's right, Atlus, I spent upwards of five minutes thinking up alternatives and I didn't even have any context to draw from.

Atlus had to do what they had to do. It can't be helped.

(Apparently)

 

[Pepboy]

As someone who is a freelance translator from Japanese to English myself (although in a field unrelated to games) I wouldn't completely discount the possibility that these translation issues are the result of Atlus Japan having the final say over what goes in the translation. I've worked with a lot of Japanese clients and while the vast majority of them are fine, there's occasionally a client that thinks they are better at English than they actually are, resulting in them unwittingly introducing a whole bunch of errors into the translation when checking it.

I feel the same. That atlus JP realized persona is a big series now in the US and wanted a much firmer grip on how to grow the franchise here... Even though atlus usa was doing a mostly stellar job.

My guess is atlus usa will get downsized considerably ("see we can handle the translation just fine ourselves with some outsourcing"). Perhaps atlus usa already had a case where the most skilled individuals fled after the sale to Sega?

 

[nickgia]

I'm disappointed in the localization, especially since P4 was great. This was an opportunity for Altus to have P5 as a breakthrough to the mainstream, and I'm not sure if they made the right decisions.

 

[Korigama]

Yu Namba of Atlus has stated that Persona 5 ”boasted the most number of translators and editors on a team". That sounds impressive, but it rings instant alarm bells for anyone in the localization industry: it's like marketing your hit novel as being ”written by the greatest number of authors."

And Namba's claim checks out: Persona 5's credits list a whopping six translators and eight editors as having worked on the project's localization.

Those eight editors are especially alarming: their job is to unify the translation, and that's hard enough under normal circumstances. But with more editors than translators, they're actually liable to worsen the stylistic inconsistencies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwlZQJyKZ2A

I don't know why we need to bring up other localization teams. 8-4 are obviously fantastic at their job, but it's not like Atlus has historically been anything other than stellar. Even as soon as SMT4:A last year (and ignoring that, admittedly, bad oversight with the untranslated text), the quality of that script was really good.

IV:A's localization did indeed turn out much better with the exception of that oversight (which the QA side was just as much to blame for going unnoticed in that case), which is all the more reason why a release as important to the company as P5 winding up being below their usual standards was so disappointing.

 

[Phu]

Atlus had to do what they had to do. It can't be helped.

(Apparently)

The 'it can't be helped' is great and all, but can we take a moment for all the 'calm down' dialogue options we get? I swear it's like every 1 in 5. I make it a point to choose that option every time it pops up, and it's never any variant like 'cool your jets' or whatever. I remember doing this in P4, but I feel like P5 is challenging me personally.

 

[duckroll]

I don't know why they didn't just contract 8-4P to do the job and done.

Because Atlus USA is more than capable of doing as good a job? This isn't a case of "hey you suck why didn't they just hire someone better", and anyone who has played the game will know that there's a ton of passion in the localization. This isn't a lazy ass job. But it falls short of how much better it could be. The take away here isn't that 8-4 can do a better job. The take away is that Square Enix's production process allowed 8-4 to do the best job they could, while Sega/Atlus Japan/whatever-other-management-challenges should reflect on the process they took on Persona 5 so in future they can allow Atlus USA to do as good a job as they are capable of. Especially on big titles.

To throw the question back, do you feel certain that 8-4 on their own would have done a better job on this if they had to work under the same conditions, whatever they were? That's why localization houses don't like to critique each other in public, because they know best that sometimes certain things are beyond their control. 8-4 has worked on games which were released in less than ideal states too.

 

[Shinjica]

If you're trying to use that comic in an earnest way, it's a poor argument, because the significant localization changes for the Ace Attorney series is part of its charm for many Western fans.

Really? I was thinking the Story and the trial gameplay instead offline warping culture. The more your know

 

[hemo memo]

As someone who is a freelance translator from Japanese to English myself (although in a field unrelated to games) I wouldn't completely discount the possibility that these translation issues are the result of Atlus Japan having the final say over what goes in the translation. I've worked with a lot of Japanese clients and while the vast majority of them are fine, there's occasionally a client that thinks they are better at English than they actually are, resulting in them unwittingly introducing a whole bunch of errors into the translation when checking it.

Yeah I think this is sadly the case. If we look at the decision to block the share function from Atlus Masters in Japan as point of reference.

I admit my English is bad because I didn't learn gramme and rules probably, but atleast I would not interfere and change a professional team work.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Really? I was thinking the Story and the trial gameplay instead offline warping culture. The more your know

part
noun
1. a portion or division of a whole that is separate or distinct; piece, fragment, fraction, or section; constituent:

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I can agree with points that the text should flow naturally like a native person speaking, but I don't agree with articles like that Kotaku one about how the fact that the game asks a question centered around esoteric Japanese writing and board game knowledge instead of changing it to a western-friendly question is so fucking off base it makes me upset people like that get a platform on major gaming websites.

No, I don't want that. I want the same questions they got in Japan. I want the exact same content. Don't whitewash/sanitize the material for other regions. Don't give me a cultural equivalent - I want the same thing, presented in a language I can understand, not equivalent content.

Yes, I know the author of this site addresses specifically not wanting to remove all traces of Japanese-ness, but this whole thing over P5 is getting pushed in that direction by people with big platforms, and I think it's wrong. Don't give me sushi and call it a hamburger. Give me all the obscure Japanese history and references (the same goes for games set in any other region). It's a good opportunity to learn something outside my own culture.

Even with that said, I don't have a big problem with most of the dialogue in P5. Some of it is awkward, but I've never found it unintelligible. It could have been made better for sure though.

If you looked at some of the examples presented on his website, you'd know that the bad translation has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

The wording is at times nonsensical, and pulls away from the original Japanese dialogue's intent. A lot of it is just nonsense / word confabulation. We don't notice it because we're reading it fast and our brain sort of "auto-corrects" it, but that shouldn't be necessary on a project like this.

 

[hemo memo]

Because Atlus USA is more than capable of doing as good a job? This isn't a case of "hey you suck why didn't they just hire someone better", and anyone who has played the game will know that there's a ton of passion in the localization. This isn't a lazy ass job. But it falls short of how much better it could be. The take away here isn't that 8-4 can do a better job. The take away is that Square Enix's production process allowed 8-4 to do the best job they could, while Sega/Atlus Japan/whatever-other-management-challenges should reflect on the process they took on Persona 5 so in future they can allow Atlus USA to do as good a job as they are capable of. Especially on big titles.

To throw the question back, do you feel certain that 8-4 on their own would have done a better job on this if they had to work under the same conditions, whatever they were? That's why localization houses don't like to critique each other in public, because they know best that sometimes certain things are beyond their control. 8-4 has worked on games which were released in less than ideal states too.

I'm at 23hours I know super early for a game of this scale, but AtlusUS job in P4 was fantastic so I know it's not AtlusUS doing a bad job. But I think it's AtlusJP interference or something behind the scenes we don't know.

 

[Wink]

It's great that P5 can inspire such nitpicky wise-ass complaints because it means people give a shit. Dude might wanna be a little more modest though in showing off his entitlement.

 

[Joeku]

I'm at 23hours I know super early for a game of this scale, but AtlusUS job in P4 was fantastic so I know it's not AtlusUS doing a bad job. But I think it's AtlusJP interference or something behind the scenes we don't know.

It's been nearly a decade since Persona 4 so staff turnaround is expected, and the AtlasUS team has made reference to their "Atlas Japan Masters" already, so it's not like that could be unexpected in some facets.

 

[The Technomancer]

Can someone explain this to me btw? I see it crop up all the time in anime and it showed up in some P5 videos I watched also. Its very very common for references to persons or events to be translated as "that person" or "that day", as in "I never would have thought I would run into...that person" or "oh yes, no-one talks to her after...that day". Its so specific that it seems like it has to be a translation of a very common way of expressing something in Japanese, can anyone shed some light?

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's great that P5 can inspire such nitpicky wise-ass complaints because it means people give a shit. Dude might wanna be a little more modest though in showing off his entitlement.

(dude's a professional translator/editor)

 

[Wink]

(dude's a professional translator/editor)

I'm sorry. The professional might wanna be a little more modest in showing off his entitlement then.

 

[Joeku]

I'm sorry. The professional might wanna be a little more modest in showing off his entitlement then.

"Entitlement" is the wrong word here.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Can someone explain this to me btw? I see it crop up all the time in anime and it showed up in some P5 videos I watched also. Its very very common for references to persons or events to be translated as "that person" or "that day", as in "I never would have thought I would run into...that person" or "oh yes, no-one talks to her after...that day". Its so specific that it seems like it has to be a translation of a very common way of expressing something in Japanese, can anyone shed some light?

Japanese tends to be indirect and contextual when referring to things. So referring to someone as "ano hito" (literally, "that person") and the like as opposed to naming or specifying the exact person or thing is common.

 

[YianGaruga]

"Entitlement" is the wrong word here.

His post was translated from Japanese by Atlus.

 

[Bubba_Sparks]

I can't speak to it being an issue with translation, or just an oddity of Japanese culture, but the set up for story really turned me off. I just don't understand why the protagonist was charged for stepping in between the man who was assualiting that girl. It was a really terrible set up and I don't think it made any sense.

 

[Joeku]

Japanese tends to be indirect and contextual when referring to things. So referring to someone as "ano hito" (literally, "that person") and the like as opposed to naming or specifying the exact person or thing is common.

Even as someone that doesn't speak Japanese, specific references to "that technique" or "this ability" feel super common. It's just a way in which the language can be vague leading up to some exciting moment, and it often gets translated literally.

His post was translated from Japanese by Atlus.

I guess it can't be helped.

 

[jonjonaug]

I'm at 23hours I know super early for a game of this scale, but AtlusUS job in P4 was fantastic so I know it's not AtlusUS doing a bad job. But I think it's AtlusJP interference or something behind the scenes we don't know.

There were six translators and eight editors working on the game. You are not going to get a consistent, quality product that way. This was pretty clearly a rush job.

To compare with some recent games with notably better translations going by their credits: Yakuza 0 had only two editors working on it (meaning they probably had more time to work on the script!) and an unknown number of translators, but probably less than six. Nier Automata had three translators and a single editor.

It's great that P5 can inspire such nitpicky wise-ass complaints because it means people give a shit. Dude might wanna be a little more modest though in showing off his entitlement.

He's a professional translator, and many of the examples on the page come from other professional translators and not just this one guy.

 

[AtomskEater]

Can someone explain this to me btw? I see it crop up all the time in anime and it showed up in some P5 videos I watched also. Its very very common for references to persons or events to be translated as "that person" or "that day", as in "I never would have thought I would run into...that person" or "oh yes, no-one talks to her after...that day". Its so specific that it seems like it has to be a translation of a very common way of expressing something in Japanese, can anyone shed some light?

I'm far from an expert, but it seems like Japanese is a very context heavy language, and participants of a discussion can easily leave things vague. "Kono hito," "kono kata," "yatsu," etc. There's a bunch of ways to refer to people, and gender-neutral pronouns as well. So it's kind of on the same level as "shouganai" or "shikataganai" being translated as "can't be helped" so often, translators just kind of leave it that way or can't find better phrasing. *shrug*

 

[Theswweet]

Great site. It hurts my soul as someone that has spent the last 2 years of his life learning Japanese that I'm seeing folks elsewhere conflating these criticisms as "SJWs angry they couldn't get their hands on Persona 5's literal translation".

I think I'm going to be sick...

 

[t26]

I don't know why they didn't just contract 8-4P to do the job and done.

8-4P localized Tales of Hearts, probably one of their weaker effort.

 

[Wink]

"Entitlement" is the wrong word here.

Could be, I'm not a professional translator
I've gone through the site, I find it exceedingly nitpicky. Great for the people who care to get into the very specific details, but it feels very "crusading" for that specific perspective alone.

 

[Alucrid]

Great site. It hurts my soul as someone that has spent the last 2 years of his life learning Japanese that I'm seeing folks elsewhere conflating these criticisms as "SJWs angry they couldn't get their hands on Persona 5's literal translation".

I think I'm going to be sick...

I feel like the concept of a SJW is the complete opposite of the type of person who wants a literal translation

 

[Moonlight]

i ordered steak at a restaurant and noticed it was kinda lukewarm. i mean, i still ate it. but what can you do, it was still edible.

 

[aadiboy]

There were six translators and eight editors working on the game. You are not going to get a consistent, quality product that way. This was pretty clearly a rush job.

To compare with some recent games with notably better translations going by their credits: Yakuza 0 had only two editors working on it (meaning they probably had more time to work on the script!) and an unknown number of translators, but probably less than six. Nier Automata had three translators and a single editor.



He's a professional translator, and many of the examples on the page come from other professional translators and not just this one guy.

Couldn't you also say that that's a case of AtlusJP rushing the localization? My guess is that Atlus Japan gave an ultimatum that they had to release the game on 2/14. That's probably why John Hardin left Atlus on that day.

 

[Joeku]

8-4P localized Tales of Hearts, probably one of their weaker effort.

8-4 also translated Nier: Automata, one of the best translations (by most accounts) in recent memory.

Could be, I'm not a professional translator
I've gone through the site, I find it exceedingly nitpicky. Great for the people who care to get into the very specific details, but it feels very "crusading" for that specific perspective alone.

If you consider crusading to be pointing out flaws, sure, it's crusading. Nobody is saying you can't like the game as much as you do; if you feel the points made about the translation are unfounded, please say which and why.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Gotta get past the feeling that something you like being criticized reduces you personally somehow.

 

[AtomskEater]

Great site. It hurts my soul as someone that has spent the last 2 years of his life learning Japanese that I'm seeing folks elsewhere conflating these criticisms as "SJWs angry they couldn't get their hands on Persona 5's literal translation".

I think I'm going to be sick...

SJW Cabal strikes again!
Some people, lol. Also, good job on the language studies, I get 6 months in and get distracted.

 

[Theswweet]

8-4 also translated Nier: Automata, one of the best translations (by most accounts) in recent memory..

They're hit or miss. FE: Awakening had plenty of issues, too.

 

[Alucrid]

Gotta get past the feeling that something you like being criticized reduces you personally somehow.

It's not me that I'm concerned about. It's my waifus

 

[Heyt]

People giving this a pass because they really like the game is repulsive. How uncritical can the Persona fanbase get? If they really like the game they should want it to be better, not inmune to balanced good-willed criticism. So childishly protective.

 

[Tookay]

Could be, I'm not a professional translator
I've gone through the site, I find it exceedingly nitpicky. Great for the people who care to get into the very specific details, but it feels very "crusading" for that specific perspective alone.

Providing a variety of examples to buttress an argument is not "crusading" - it's part of making a good argument.