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[Fbh]

Eh, yeah they are all games and it's all gaming.

But I see the reasoning behind pointing out that the 40-something office worker playing Candy Crush on his phone on the way to work should be seen as a difference audience than a console/PC player.
It's like cooking, everything from heating up a frozen pizza to prepearing exclusive gourmet food in a 5 star restaurant is considered cooking. There isn't one that is better or worse, it's different types of cooking for different needs and lifestyles. But a statistic saying "the average 12 years old knows how to cook" because he can make a frozen pizza or fried egg doesn't bring much to the discussion.

For anything but a very broad discussion these statistics are worthless.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

You know what we don't do? We generally don't mock people that read only certain books. We generally don't mock people that only watch simple movies.
No one here is ostracized or ridiculed because they watch superhero movies. No one here is shat upon because they read comic books. You won't find threads where people shame those that watch wrestling.

I don't think anybody gets ostracized here for playing mobile games. The thread for that Fire Emblem game is on it's third OT.

People who only watch Adam Sandler films do get mocked in movie enthusiast communities. People who only read fanfiction do get mocked in literature communities. People who listen to pop at all get mocked to no end in music communities. I don't know if I'd say mobile gaming is the equivalent of Fanfiction.net, or that it's a good mentality to have, but it's not really a "gamer" thing.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

You know what we don't do? We generally don't mock people that read only certain books. We generally don't mock people that only watch simple movies.

Absolutely but if someone was to say they read and you said "oh what was the last thing you read" and they replied with the paper insert that came with the terminator salvation bluray and the back of a bottle of cherry coke are you really telling me you would accept that that person was a "reader"?

Now that is a very extreme example

Spoiler

because who the fuck owns terminator salvation on bluray

but I feel it's relevant because we as a species discern quality. We compare and judge works of media and when one work is inferior we label it as such and while the terms at use here are jarring with words like "fake" and "true" involved grouping people who play EVE Online 17 hours per day and people who somewhat frequently engage with Harry Potter Quiz on their tablet seems reductive to the hobby of the former.

 

[JaffeLion]

for me there is only professional gaming (eSports etc.) and non-professional, or casual/amateur gaming, where people play games just for fun and not for money.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I think a lot of people draw a strong distinction between people who play games and people who would identify as being video game enthusiasts.

There's certainly a difference in the makeup of those two groups, but how much you actually care about that is another matter.

 

[rochellepaws]

I can understand the perspective in that the audience for casual games on browsers or mobile don't overlap hugely with the audience for traditional PC and console games.
I think the comparison made earlier between a magazine reader considering themselves a "reader" while a book reader would not is appropriate and shows that the snobbery isn't just a gaming thing.

 

[Blackquill]

Sorry but when I look at business and gameplay model of something like Mobile Strike then I have no problem saying this isn't the same type of gaming that I do.

True and fake are bad words for it but casual and core gaming are good description since they are quite accurate description of how those products are played usually.

Of course, there is a huge gap between a F2P mobile game and a classic game, it will be dumb to say it's the same. But it's also to dumb to look down on one of these, and especially on people who play them.

 

[Oersted]

It this really specific to gaming though? I swear every hobby I've ever seen has had elitists who look down on people just getting started or those who aren't as "hardcore" as them and are seen as casuals in their eyes.

The elitists in other areas, namely books, music and movies are a bit different. There is an attempt to have intellectual debate, reflecting on the medium and its cultural impact and pursuit for artists who have something to say in book/music or movie form.

"Coregamers" are... not like that? They define themselves largely trough the amount of time and money invested, not trough intellectual merit. We have seen again and again that many "coregamers" are rather outraged by the sheer sign of debate. See the shitshow Gamergate as a rather blatant example.

 

[alt27]

Same can be said about movies, books and music. Money spend on games is what the industry is interested in and whether it is spend on a trashy mobile game or TW3 is immaterial.

The fact is though is there is massive more amounts of trash tier mobile games compared to consoles / pcs etc due to Dev and platform costs .

So the quality difference is night and day .

 

[nel e nel]

See the following threads and responses on GAF. People are very passionate about their hobbies. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1361967
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1361971

Was just about to reference these. The amount of mental gymnastics to try and discredit these numbers was fascinating.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

Funnily enough, the "fake" games are usually 100% gameplay focused as they tend to be puzzle games and the like, whereas the "true" games in the AAA space are venturing more and more towards being interactive movies.

i hate mobile gaming (mostly because i don't like touch screen), but i can't say i disagree with you on that... Never thought about it that way, and it's very true (i'm the type of guy that can't see the appeal of games like uncharted)

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Of course, there is a huge gap between a F2P mobile game and a classic game, it will be dumb to say it's the same. But it's also to dumb to look down on one of these, and especially on people who play them.

I don't think it's a reach to assume that most people who play Mobile Strike are only there because of some sort of mental issue like a gambling addiction. There's a reason the ads don't show the game itself.

 

[TSM]

You know what we don't do? We generally don't mock people that read only certain books. We generally don't mock people that only watch simple movies.
No one here is ostracized or ridiculed because they watch superhero movies. No one here is shat upon because they read comic books. You won't find threads where people shame those that watch wrestling.

Is this sarcasm? Because it reads like it. Just on this site think about how people that watch cartoons like Steven Universe or Rick and Morty are treated compared to those that watch Anime or My Little Pony.

 

[Gun Animal]

most well adjusted, non-insane people understand that "gaming" and "gamers" etc does not refer to shit like Farmville. Is there any obscure thing on planet earth you couldn't distort through the lense of politics/minority issues?

Cruisers are real Skateboards. I will not tolerate being called a "fake skater" any longer, this oppression will not stand!

 

[Eumi]

Absolutely but if someone was to say they read and you said "oh what was the last thing you read" and they replied with the paper insert that came with the terminator salvation bluray and the back of a bottle of cherry coke are you really telling me you would accept that that person was a "reader"?

Now that is a very extreme example

Spoiler

because who the fuck owns terminator salvation on bluray

but I feel it's relevant because we as a species discern quality. We compare and judge works of media and when one work is inferior we label it as such and while the terms at use here are jarring with words like "fake" and "true" involved grouping people who play EVE Online 17 hours per day and people who somewhat frequently engage with Harry Potter Quiz on their tablet seems reductive to the hobby of the former.

As somebody who actually helps run a book club, no, I've never once even had the thought that someone was some kind of poser because of the kinds of books they read. And I've never met anyone else who did.

Why is it that you feel so threatened by mobile gaming that the people who play them are 'reductive' your hobby? What exactly do you think they're going to do? Do you think they're going to bite you and then you'll turn, unable to ever enjoy CS GO again, forced forever to play candy crush as you lament the state of the industry?

 

[Lanrutcon]

And all the people who feel threatened by mobile gaming come racing in to call it trash and disavow it, lest their gamer credentials be taken away.

Mobile gaming isn't trash, most mobile games are trash (distinction). Has nothing to do with status or credentials or labels or dick size. Blame the F2P whale hunting gamble-or-suffer model that's became the norm.

 

[Skux]

Much of mobile gaming is a lot like gambling. So yes, you could call it a fake form of gaming.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

I think the different markets that come under the blanket umbrella of 'gaming' are so disparate and distinct that it is actually highly disingenuous to use any broad statistics that lump them all together to draw any kind of conclusion on current trends in the industry.

And like it or not, as much money as mobile games make, and as accepted by wider society as they have been, they and the people who play them are so far removed from the dedicated enthusiast market found on PC and console as to be basically irrelevant to one another.

It's like comparing supermarket value meal sales to the health of the restaurant industry. They both involve people eating, and there is an obvious competition for people's money, but that's pretty much where the similarities end.

Quite honestly I also think comparing the PC, console and handheld markets is a bit of a stretch.

Well said. Market diversification is a matter for the platform holders; as players we only see a fraction of it all no matter who we are and what market segment we are from. Even the PC/console/handheld spaces are individually compartmentalized into thriving segments that never talk to each other.

As someone whose background is principally in first-party Nintendo and various PC-centric genres like strategy and simulation, I barely have any common ground or shared language as it is with the mythical CoD-and-Madden demographic that dominates the console charts. Making broad judgements or drawing binary battle lines is wholly uninformative. It is in the nature of a diverse marketplace for healthy, self-sustaining sectors to have nothing at all to do with one another, and unless you are EA and are specifically involved in diversifying an asset portfolio to have a finger in every pie, there is no reason to pretend everything falls under a shared umbrella.

 

[Iamcorrupt]

If what you're playing actively prevents you from playing it, it's not a video game, it's a glorified slot machine.

Not that I'd ding anyone for playing something like that, if you're having fun that's cool but you deserve to play a game that respects your time as a customer.

 

[TheJoRu]

I'm saying if you truly enjoy games , you would try games on a variety of platforms , not just one . And vast majority of people would find out that games on better hardware are better than your phone .

So what you're saying is people who disregard mobile and only play on console or on PC do not truly enjoy games as they are not willing to play on a variety of platforms?

And who's to say a bulk of primarily mobile gamers have not tried a game on console or PC, and have only ever tried mobile games? Maybe they don't like playing on a controller, maybe they don't like how predominantly male-skewed a lot of console/PC-gaming is, maybe all their friends are playing on mobile and want to be able to have that social aspect of their gaming lives. These are some reasons why someone would prefer mobile gaming (this is even disregarding the obvious perk of it being portable), and your "but mah graphics and more content" will do nothing for them, in the same way portability and lower barrier of entry (price) may not do anything for you.

 

[Always-honest]

Insecurity is a bitch.

Everything from console warriors to pc elitists to so called hardcore or true gamers is based on insecurity.
Just ignore. Some people grow wise really late in life.

 

[Lucumo]

There is a notable degree of separation between hobbyist gamers and your average cellphone user with a F2P mobile game they "waste" time on every every day.

What labels you want to use is up to you. Unsure what gender has to do with it.

Pretty much this. For me gamer =/= playing games.

 

[texhnolyze]

Sounds like what a good chunk of NeoGaf members would say.

 

[10101]

I don't know if mobile gaming is fake or whatever. I play them occasionally as a time filler but would rather fire up the PS4.

I do know that my wife has spent the last 4 or so years grinding her way to level 1000 odd on Candy Crush without buying a single life / micro transaction. That's the kind of dedication I expect from a "true" gamer lol.

Joking aside, it's horses for courses, if people are happy playing mobile games then great. Doesn't need to be a distinction between "true" or "fake" imo.

 

[El Topo]

Is this sarcasm? Because it reads like it. Just on this site think about how people that watch cartoons like Steven Universe or Rick and Morty are treated compared to those that watch Anime or My Little Pony.

People are ridiculed for MLP or anime for entirely different reasons than the perceived depth/complexity/validity of the show, no? I was under the impression fans of MLP were regarded with scepticism due to the target audience of the show and the extreme parts of its fandom. Same with anime, where it seems to be more due to (supposedly perceived) meta issues. That seems to be a very different issue from the one discussed here.

Edit:
Not to mention the general scepticism from mainstream audiences towards anime, but that is also a very complex issue.

 

[True Fire]

Most mobile games are trash. They involve too much strategic gameplay and not enough QTE cutscenes. How can I press F to pay respect on mobile?

 

[Jampsuliini]

Most mobile games are trash. They involve too much strategic gameplay and not enough QTE cutscenes. How can I press F to pay respect on mobile?

Swipe right to pay respect

 

[fhqwhgads]

It even worms it's way into genres too, like how Super Smash Bros isn't a "Real" fighting game or how Super Mario 3D World isn't a "Real" Mario game. At this point if anyone is complaining about what's real and what isn't in gaming, I just count it as "I don't like thing"

 

[Heckler456]

Funnily enough, the "fake" games are usually 100% gameplay focused as they tend to be puzzle games and the like, whereas the "true" games in the AAA space are venturing more and more towards being interactive movies.

Barring things like Gone Home, even the most interactive moviest of all the games is far more involved than pretty much anything I've played on mobile. While truly "interactive movie" games are the exception on the gaming space (things like everybody's gone to the rapture), games with actual decent gameplay and an actual focus on being a good game are definitely the exception in the mobile space. The vast majority of mobile games simply serve to keep you busy and "engaged" (read "addicted") so that you'll either pay them money through microtransactions, or you'll watch some more ads. They're essentially the equivalent to arcade games, where the focus wasn't really to make a decent experience either most of the time, but rather to get kids to insert as many coins as possible. It's basically addicting busywork, and again, barring the few exceptions, you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Aside from that, let people do whatever the hell they want with their free time is what I say. If mobile games kill actual game-ass-games, well, so be it. Probably won't happen, unless everyone loses interest, seeing as how demand will almost always be fulfilled by someone out there. And those guys in those facebook comments are buffoons. Who cares about statistics regarding the gaming population in the first place, let alone enough to try to disparage and downplay them? I mean, shit.

 

[Eumi]

Swipe right to pay respect

Be aware that respect will be charged to your credit card though.

 

[Kill3r7]

The fact is though is there is massive more amounts of trash tier mobile games compared to consoles / pcs etc due to Dev and platform costs .

So the quality difference is night and day .

There are plenty of trash games on steam.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I don't care who is playing it, there are some mobile "games" that qualify as games as much as some slot machines in a casino do. (Note I said SOME so please don't bother posting a list of games for phones that aren't like this)

Yet we don't lump casino gambling in with "games" as we think of them, because their purpose is to get money from the user, but many gambling machines have entertainment as their goal to keep the user playing?

So what's the difference between a mobile game rigged to suck cash from you with minimal gameplay and a gamblingachine that does the same?

 

[Oersted]

There is a notable degree of separation between hobbyist gamers and your average cellphone user with a F2P mobile game they "waste" time on every every day.

What labels you want to use is up to you. Unsure what gender has to do with it.

Investing more time and money?

Is that how we define gaming?

 

[Blackquill]

Most mobile games are trash. They involve too much strategic gameplay and not enough QTE cutscenes. How can I press F to pay respect on mobile?

Insert you credit card to pay respect

 

[Sinfamy]

Most "mobile games" tend to fall closer in line to online gambling though.
I guess the question is what do you define as games.
For me, if it's an unplayable mess without constantly feeding it money, it's not a game.

 

[Eumi]

I don't care who is playing it, there are some mobile "games" that qualify as games as much as some slot machines in a casino do.

Yet we don't lump casino gambling in with "games" as we think of them, because their purpose is to get money from the user, but many gambling machines have entertainment as their goal to keep the user playing?

So what's the difference between a mobile game rigged to suck cash from you with minimal gameplay and a gamblingachine that does the same?

The legal definition of those two things?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I don't care who is playing it, there are some mobile "games" that qualify as games as much as some slot machines in a casino do. (Note I said SOME so please don't bother posting a list of games for phones that aren't like this)

Yet we don't lump casino gambling in with "games" as we think of them, because their purpose is to get money from the user, but many gambling machines have entertainment as their goal to keep the user playing?

So what's the difference between a mobile game rigged to suck cash from you with minimal gameplay and a gamblingachine that does the same?

One of them is regulated.

 

[ponpo]

Most mobile games are trash. They involve too much strategic gameplay and not enough QTE cutscenes. How can I press F to pay respect on mobile?

Spoiler

Pretty sure I've made the exact same shitpost regarding mobile gaming being not "true gaming" using that press f to pay respects example. Soulmate detected

 

[7DollarHagane]

One of them is regulated.

So because gambling is labeled as a vice by most governments it's different?

That is literally the only difference? Thanks for making my argument.

 

[lastrealgameralive]

Well, to dryly respond to the topic, there are different levels of gaming and different levels of respect for each level. Mobile gaming is most assuredly designed for casual or lite gaming compared to PC, arcade, or console gaming. It is the lowest level of gaming, so it gets the least respect.

 

[TheGraykid]

Why do people act like mobile games are demonstrably worse than games on other platforms?

95% of games are trash, full stop. I don't know how you can flick through the latest steam releases and think those games are any better than games on mobile.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

So because gambling is labeled as a vice by most governments it's different?

That is literally the only difference? Thanks for making my argument.

I wasn't arguing against you.

 

[Chao]

Mobile games are shit.

They're still games, but I wouldn't call a a mobile gamer a gaming "enthusiast", the same way I wouldn't call a guy who only drinks instant coffee a coffee expert.

So when a new survey shows how 99% of the population are gamers, I just don't care for it, because I know it's bullshit, because by that metric most of the population drinking instant coffee could be considered "coffee drinkers", when the reality is those people are just consuming a sub product thats hardly representative of the real thing.

 

[alt27]

So what you're saying is people who disregard mobile and only play on console or on PC do not truly enjoy games as they are not willing to play on a variety of platforms?

And who's to say a bulk of primarily mobile gamers have not tried a game on console or PC, and have only ever tried mobile games? Maybe they don't like playing on a controller, maybe they don't like how predominantly male-skewed a lot of console/PC-gaming is, maybe all their friends are playing on mobile and want to be able to have that social aspect of their gaming lives. These are some reasons why someone would prefer mobile gaming (this is even disregarding the obvious perk of it being portable), and your "but mah graphics and more content" will do nothing for them, in the same way portability and lower barrier of entry (price) may not do anything for you.

This whole argument depends on what your definition of a "gamer " is really . But in response I would say that there's plenty of single player games to try out on pc and console , and as for portability , plenty of handheld gaming units out there . I don't really find the cost argument as relevant . If it's your hobby as being a gamer , you invest money into it

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Why do people act like mobile games are demonstrably worse than games on other platforms?

95% of games are trash, full stop. I don't know how you can flick through the latest steam releases and think those games are any better than games on mobile.

There are far more apps released on the App Store every day than on Steam, something to the tune of 100 every day (not all of these are games, of course, but I'd wager most are) versus 10 a day. And I'm pretty sure there are less good games total on the App Store than on Steam.

You can do the math from there.

 

[blankempathy]

The elitists in other areas, namely books, music and movies are a bit different. There is an attempt to have intellectual debate, reflecting on the medium and its cultural impact and pursuit for artists who have something to say in book/music or movie form.

"Coregamers" are... not like that? They define themselves largely trough the amount of time and money invested, not trough intellectual merit. We have seen again and again that many "coregamers" are rather outraged by the sheer sign of debate. See the shitshow Gamergate as a rather blatant example.

That may be because typically those looking for conversation regarding those mediums tend to specialize in certain sub genres. I'm sure I can find plenty of website forums dedicated to discussing specific music genres, sports, sports teams, book authors and so on. Where as when it comes to video games maybe you get websites specifically dedicated to one of the big 3 console companies but typically most of the popular gaming forums are a mishmash of all platforms and sub genres on one forum. Not to mention gaming tends to attract a younger audience. This is why I also think that board game communities and hell even d&d communities tend to be less hostile. At least in my experience.

 

[ponpo]

Mobile games are shit.

What.

most of the population drinking instant coffee could be considered "coffee drinkers", when the reality is those people are just consuming a sub product thats hardly representative of the real thing.

What. These people are literally drinking coffee.

"Huh, nice McDonalds Big Mac you have there. I hope you don't consider yourself a Food Eater."

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yeah, it's so nebulous. Fake gaming is what you don't like. You wanna know what games I've seen people call fake games?

1. Brain Age
2. Madden
3. League of Legends
4. Starcraft
5. Call of Duty
6. Time Crisis

Fake games/non-games has as much meaning as SJW. It's a word that means everything and nothing

 

[Lanrutcon]

Investing more time and money?

Is that how we define gaming?

No, it's not, but then that's not what I posted.

 

[alt27]

There are plenty of trash games on steam.

Very true . But even that number pales into insignificance compared to the iOS App Store and android version etc