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[btrboyev]

Maybe they worked out their differences with Platinum.

Why do you assume the problems stemmed from them having a problem with platinum?

The game may have just been not shaping up.

It looked rough when we saw it

 

[Synth]

The simple fact is that when they started this generation they expected to have much better XB1 market penetration, especially in foreign markets. They started a lot of projects based on that assumption, and when it became apparent that they were not going to come anywhere close to their initial sales projections, many of those projects became financially infeasible to support.

This boils down to math from a publishing perspective. You anticipate there will be X million XB1 owners by the time the game releases, and based on that you extrapolate Y million likely sales. That tells how you how much you can comfortably budget for a project. A game like Scalebound, intended to broaden Microsoft's appeal in markets where they historically have performed poorly, was likely greenlit already with the baseline assumption being little to no profit on the investment.

Then, when the system fails to hit the requisite sales numbers, the math changes: you now have half (conservatively) of your X and Y, but the budget you need to allocate to finish the game hasn't changed. The loss on the project is going to be quite a bit larger, and investing in the Japanese market has become a fool's errand given how unlikely anything is to salvage sales in the region by that point.

This is the reality faced not just by Scalebound, but by many projects Microsoft greenlit in the run-up and early days of the XB1. Their funding was based on the assumption that system sales would be much, much better than they have been and the entire enterprise would be much, much more profitable than it currently is. It's perfectly understandable that they've had to cancel a number of projects in this situation, but you really shouldn't go and just start shitting on all of the developers because they were "obviously behind schedule" and there's "no other logical explanation".

Not only is there one, it's far more logical.

Eh... I wouldn't say this line of thought is "far more logical".

This would be more logical for the cancellation of a project that otherwise appears to be developing according to schedule... but Scalebound should have already been out around the point it was cancelled. Something like Phantom Dust then obviously becomes a better candidate for this explanation... but then from what we've heard that was given a tiny budget in the first place (and was basically started when the trend was already clear).

Now let's consider that Scalebound was in development for 4 years... if even having your audience halved has left the balance sheet in favour of cancelling it and throwing away all previous investments, versus what it costs to complete it... then how fucking far away was it from completion still? And how the hell would it have been viable in the first place, even with double the userbase?

It's not a very logical outlook at all imo. The lowered userbase is the sort of thing that'd more likely affect projects being greenlit from that point on, rather than causing games that have already had tens of millions dumped in them to be axed.

 

[Imperfected]

Now let's consider that Scalebound was in development for 4 years... if even having your audience halved has left the balance sheet in favour of cancelling it and throwing away all previous investments, versus what it costs to complete it... then how fucking far away was it from completion still? And how the hell would it have been viable in the first place, even with double the userbase?

You aren't really grasping publisher math. For a AAA title, development is a significant cost, but advertising and the actual production and distribution of the physical product is not insignificant. This is why there's a vast graveyard of games that were nearly or even completely finished but abandoned rather than being published.

The fact they chose to stop development is not any sort of indicator of how far development had progressed or how much longer it would have taken.

You also can't really use an absolute time scale in a scenario where the developer in question is developing multiple projects concurrently, as Platinum was. The game may have "been in development for four years" because Microsoft gave them a target launch date that far in the future due to the particulars of their own release schedule for exclusives. It's quite likely (almost certain, in fact) the development could have progressed more quickly if Microsoft had been interested in doing so and paid sufficiently to have the entire company constantly working on the project, but instead was paying only for a smaller dedicated development team within Platinum--this is known, as again, they were concurrently developing other titles--with the understanding that development would be much slower than their normal turnaround time, presumably to hold off release until after the major titles that would have (Microsoft foolishly hoped) gotten the Japanese install base where it needed to be (FFXV, RE7, etc.).

It's not a very logical outlook at all imo. The lowered userbase is the sort of thing that'd more likely affect projects being greenlit from that point on, rather than causing games that have already had tens of millions dumped in them to be axed.

Businesses do not tend to be fond of the sunk cost fallacy. You should basically never assume that is the case, as anyone operating with budgets on that level has had it (thoroughly) beaten out of them before they get to see the corporate checkbook.

 

[Synth]

There are no darlings and Platinum have been hated on for many of their games, remember all the flak they got for Metal Gear Rising?

I was talking about games, not studios (and even then I'd say that was bullshit... one of the core arguments in this thread is how Platinum don't fuck up, unless you fuck with their projects).

If people here are "meh" about the new Destiny, or the new Call of Duty, it means pretty much nothing... there will be endless excitement for these game outside of our community. Scalebound is a completely different matter... if communities like ours don't care about it, who the hell does? We put Bayonetta 2 as our GOTY over stuff like Destiny, and probably have like 25% of the entire fanbase for a game like Wonderful 101.

As for Metal Gear Rising... no, I don't really remember all the flak they got.

 

[bitbydeath]

I was talking about games, not studios (and even then I'd say that was bullshit... one of the core arguments in this thread is how Platinum don't fuck up, unless you fuck with their projects).

If people here are "meh" about the new Destiny, or the new Call of Duty, it means pretty much nothing... there will be endless excitement for these game outside of our community. Scalebound is a completely different matter... if communities like ours don't care about it, who the hell does? We put Bayonetta 2 as our GOTY over stuff like Destiny, and probably have like 25% of the entire fanbase for a game like Wonderful 101.

As for Metal Gear Rising... no, I don't really remember all the flak they got.

Well they're not the only ones, No Mans Sky also got massively hated on, (before and after release) was a new IP and still sold millions.

 

[Synth]

You aren't really grasping publisher math. For a AAA title, development is a significant cost, but advertising and the actual production and distribution of the physical product is not insignificant. This is why there's a vast graveyard of games that were nearly or even completely finished but abandoned rather than being published.

The fact they chose to stop development is not any sort of indicator of how far development had progressed or how much longer it would have taken.

You also can't really use an absolute time scale in a scenario where the developer in question is developing multiple projects concurrently, as Platinum was. The game may have "been in development for four years" because Microsoft gave them a target launch date that far in the future due to the particulars of their own release schedule for exclusives. It's quite likely (almost certain, in fact) the development could have progressed more quickly if Microsoft had been interested in doing so and paid sufficiently to have the entire company constantly working on the project, but instead was paying only for a smaller dedicated development team within Platinum--this is known, as again, they were concurrently developing other titles--with the understanding that development would be much slower than their normal turnaround time, presumably to hold off release until after the major titles that would have (Microsoft foolishly hoped) gotten the Japanese install base where it needed to be (FFXV, RE7, etc.).



Businesses do not tend to be fond of the sunk cost fallacy. You should basically never assume that is the case, as anyone operating with budgets on that level has had it (thoroughly) beaten out of them before they get to see the corporate checkbook.

I'm not just looking at the "sunk cost" though. Let's say the game has eaten $60m to date... fair enough, sunk cost, nobody cares, right. It's gonna cost another say $10m to be complete. If that $10 is worth cancelling the game over because they have half the expected number of XB1's out there... how would having twice that number have made a $70m project even remotely work out?

There are physical copies of ReCore (fuck, there's a limited edition bundle of that) and Ori and the Blind Forest out there... obviously the distribution of a physical product that you don't expect to sell in huge quantities isn't a huge deal in the context of a AAA title that you've already been heavily marketing, and even made a focal point of multiple gaming conferences. You lose faith in the game, then you'd probably just send it out to die. It's the aspect of actually getting the game finished that would logically be the real issue... and if that's still a significant factor after 4 years of development... than the reduced userbase isn't the game's real problem.

Well they're not the only ones, No Mans Sky also got massively hated on, (before and after release) was a new IP and still sold millions.

Because No Man's Sky was generating excitement on a large scale. It was never in the same bucket as a standard Platinum release. Its launch week was more than nearly every Platinum game's LTD.

 

[bitbydeath]

As for the MGS link try this one -
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455114

Because No Man's Sky was generating excitement on a large scale. It was never in the same bucket as a standard Platinum release. Its launch week was more than nearly every Platinum game's LTD.

Exactly, and it got hated on since the initial announcement with "but what do you do?" and "walking simulator".

 

[Kaydan]

The simple fact is that when they started this generation they expected to have much better XB1 market penetration, especially in foreign markets. They started a lot of projects based on that assumption, and when it became apparent that they were not going to come anywhere close to their initial sales projections, many of those projects became financially infeasible to support.

This boils down to math from a publishing perspective. You anticipate there will be X million XB1 owners by the time the game releases, and based on that you extrapolate Y million likely sales. That tells how you how much you can comfortably budget for a project. A game like Scalebound, intended to broaden Microsoft's appeal in markets where they historically have performed poorly, was likely greenlit already with the baseline assumption being little to no profit on the investment.

Then, when the system fails to hit the requisite sales numbers, the math changes: you now have half (conservatively) of your X and Y, but the budget you need to allocate to finish the game hasn't changed. The loss on the project is going to be quite a bit larger, and investing in the Japanese market has become a fool's errand given how unlikely anything is to salvage sales in the region by that point.

This is the reality faced not just by Scalebound, but by many projects Microsoft greenlit in the run-up and early days of the XB1. Their funding was based on the assumption that system sales would be much, much better than they have been and the entire enterprise would be much, much more profitable than it currently is. It's perfectly understandable that they've had to cancel a number of projects in this situation, but you really shouldn't go and just start shitting on all of the developers because they were "obviously behind schedule" and there's "no other logical explanation".

Not only is there one, it's far more logical.

No, its not logical at all. The XB1 sales numbers are stronger than even X360 numbers point in time. You speak like the XB1 is a dead system. It's quite healthy. If what you said was true, the game development would have been cancelled way before 2017. That's YEARS of development, salaries, infrastructure, R&D. You don't spend money on years of development if you have no fate in a game. Your logic doesn't check out, but it fits the narrative around here though so it must be right.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

We're still talking about this? Did some news happen or none of that? I do wonder if MS ever decides to go back to it. Seems like they haven't fully given up on it, otherwise why renew it?

 

[Imperfected]

No, its not logical at all. The XB1 sales numbers are stronger than even X360 numbers point in time. You speak like the XB1 is a dead system. It's quite healthy. If what you said was true, the game development would have been cancelled way before 2017. That's YEARS of development, salaries, infrastructure, R&D. You don't spend money on years of development if you have no fate in a game. Your logic doesn't check out, but it fits the narrative around here though so it must be right.

The calculations Microsoft did were based on where they thought they would be at this point in the generation, not where the X360 was. They are not there, not even close; some higher-ups before launch even said they thought this generation would see an install base of one billion, and even assuming that was mostly bluster and bravado, they were quite clear in all of their corporate reports prior to release that they believed the console industry was going to see an enormous amount of growth due to expansion into China and developing markets in India and South America.

They were expecting significantly more consoles in homes by this point in the generation. If you don't know this, you weren't paying attention at the time. Hell, you aren't paying attention now; it's quite obvious their entire strategy (with regards to the Windows Store and pursuing exclusives) has changed drastically due to their failure to deliver the sales numbers they were predicting.

 

[Synth]

As for the MGS link try this one -
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455114

Ok cool. It got hated on when it looked shit (similar to Scalebound then). It stopped getting hated on when it looked good (as per the link I gave). Scalebound never turned that corner in most people's eye, even after multiple years of showings..

Exactly, and it got hated on since the initial announcement with "but what do you do?" and "walking simulator".

The point is that there was still a huge amount of excitement for the game both on GAF and outside of GAF. Scalebound was getting very little attention here, and less everywhere else. It's more popular for being cancelled, than it ever was when it was alive.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I know people who were pretty upset about Phantom Dust and Fable Legends.

We all know some. I was gutted when B.C. was canceled for the original XBox, same goes for Grand Prix 4 for the Xbox, Exo (which EDGE hyped as the game to show us what the PS2 could do) Monkeyball for the Dreamcast, and also beside myself when Waterworld was dropped for the Saturn, more so when it was meant to be a showcase for the system and gave the VDP II a mega workout .

It happens. Not a reason to hate a corp or console imo

 

[Head.spawn]

To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.

It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.

Those games could inspire more than a handful of pages of conversation over three years without being cancelled.

Outside of Splatoon, and only because i have no clue; the rest of those games are made by developers that put up massive sales, always.. are there any Platinum Games titles that compare to the Halo or COD series as far as sales?

Kind of ridiculous to put them in the same sentence in regards to sales.

 

[bitbydeath]

Ok cool. It got hated on when it looked shit (similar to Scalebound then). It stopped getting hated on when it looked good (as per the link I gave). Scalebound never turned that corner in most people's eye, even after multiple years of showings..

The point is that there was still a huge amount of excitement for the game both on GAF and outside of GAF. Scalebound was getting very little attention here, and less everywhere else. It's more popular for being cancelled, than it ever was when it was alive.

If it wasn't cancelled then people might have come around for it as they had for MGR, and the point of MGR is that Platinum are not darlings.

For NMS there was mixed reactions, GAF mostly hated it though, second point, don't take GAF consensus at face value.

 

[PantsuJo]

Windows Central says that IP was renewed only to avoid future copyright issues.

Apparently, there is no new Scalebound project active.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Windows Central says that IP was renewed only to avoid future copyright issues.

Apparently, there is no new Scalebound project active.

Makes sense and it's even understandable. As much as it sucks this probably wouldn't have done big numbers at all. I would have bought it on day one but I think plenty of people would have passed on it.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Windows Central says that IP was renewed only to avoid future copyright issues.

Apparently, there is no new Scalebound project active.

We knew that pages ago, were now discussing...... actually, fuck knows what we're discussing lol.

 

[Caayn]

To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.

It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.

None of those games had anywhere near to extreme low amount of excitement that Scalebound got.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

He said "like we've not seen before", which in the console space is true. Unlike the OG Xbox mode on 360, Wii Mode on Wii U, PS1 or PS2 modes on PS3 etc, BC on XB1 is integrated seamlessly with the consoles standard updated feature set. Nintendo charged an upgrade fee to bring a Virtual Console purchase up to date, and Sony's currently just outright selling you the same product all over again on PS4.

The XB1 can't actually play the 360 games as they are stored on disc. They honor it with a digital copy anyway though... and that's not something I believe has been done in the realm of backwards compatibility before.

I still don't think you or him understand you could literally use GC discs, controllers and memory cards with the Wii and you could use all Wii controllers, and discs with the Wii U. If you're going to restrict this to just digital content and give them a pass for discs not being compatible that incredibly disingenuous. Even though the Wii U doesn't offer Wii VC games updated features, it still natively plays them for no additional cost. The Wii and Wii U are indisputably the most BC consoles

 

[Nanashrew]

So a Level 5 RPG for the XBox would have all the difference in Japan, where PSU, Blue Dragoon, Lost Oddesy, Tales of Vesperia, Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata, FF 13, Star Ocean IV all failed to sell the XBox 360 to any big degree in Japan?
Yeah right. Japan as always disliked Western made consoles, well maybe bar the 3DO which did rather well there.


More PS generation talk ?. MS comes in with the money, you get the games made for you. Money will always talk

You're really coming at this from a console war point of view.

True Fantasy Live Online was cancelled in 2004 and planned to be the premier titles for the platform and also push their Live service in Japan. It had some hype around it because Level-5 was still brand new and had just finished Dark Chronicles, the sequel to Dark Cloud and were helping with Dragon Quest 8. It was smart to try and get them on-board as they were an up and coming studio that was seeing a lot of praise and attention. But they messed it up so badly. Apparently, it was due to Microsoft's inexperience with Japanese relations that led to strain and the eventual cancellation. http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/01/04/true-fantasy-online-resurrected

Sounds familiar, like something that's still going on.

I do believe True Fantasy Live Online could have been something that helped in Japan. Despite the poor sales of the Xbox original in Japan, the few Japanese exclusives they did get, did actually help sell the system because of appealing games.


There is a reason MS has the reputation that it has for game cancellations and terrible business relations in Japan. And it's also one of my big criticisms about Xbox. They have done little to try and gain a better presence in Japan and get Japanese titles. Yes, Xbox and even Xbox 360 had some Japanese titles, but it paled in comparison to other systems. And it's now the 3rd generation of the Xbox family and it still hasn't grown. Actually, it may be less than last gen.

 

[Synth]

If it wasn't cancelled then people might have come around for it as they had for MGR, and the point of MGR is that Platinum are not darlings.

For NMS there was mixed reactions, GAF mostly hated it though, second point, don't take GAF consensus at face value.

I said certain games should be GAF darlings. If they fail to be, then that's all the more worrying. I'm not suggesting that GAF will unequivocally pretend a game is good when it isn't... that'd go against the very idea that GAF as a community wasn't optimistic for Scalebound. There are other Platinum games that GAF also largely sees as crap (Korra, Starfox), but as you've probably seen already in this very thread, the explanation is usually that factors beyond Platinum are the cause. So Korra is because they were rushed and given a small budget, Starfox is because Nintendo forced all the bad choices, and Scalebound is because MS did... something... we're not sure, but they totally did. If Killer Instinct had looked shit and got cancelled on the other hand... it'd probably be more seen as Double Helix just being shit.

Mixed reactions don't matter if there's a million positive and a million negative... if there's a hundred positive and a thousand negative, then you're looking at not selling much of anything. This should be common fucking sense. Scalebound wasn't just being received negatively... it was failing to generate pretty much any discussion beyond that... until it got cancelled.

There was two months between the thread for MGR you posted, and the one I did... it hardly took long to win people over with what was shown. Scalebound was getting negative feedback for years. It's a nonsense comparison.

I still don't think you or him understand you could literally use GC discs, controllers and memory cards with the Wii and you could use all Wii controllers, and discs with the Wii U. If you're going to restrict this to just digital content and give them a pass for discs not being compatible that incredibly disingenuous. Even though the Wii U doesn't offer Wii VC games updated features, it still natively plays them for no additional cost

No... I get that. But when somebody clearly states "in a way that we haven't seen before", it's pretty clear that they're not claiming that BC in itself hasn't been done before. But it hasn't been done in the way MS is currently doing it, and neither of the other two have opted to match it, even when possible. Instead, they sell you the game again.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You're really coming at this from a console war point of view. .

NO, I just find it almost impossible to believe that one Level 5 game would have been the game to change the fortunes of XBox in Japan, more so a MMORPG. When online RPG weren't that big in Japan at the time or a Level 5 RPG ever sold in the numbers Square or Enix could boast

MS would have needed to make Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy exclusive to the Orginal Xbox or 360 to make any real sort of impact

 

[Sponge]

So here's a theory I'd like to throw out if it hasn't been discussed already.

Gameblog was the originator of the Yoshi + Rabbids game rumor for Switch, which by now is all but confirmed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1293731

But they also reported, get ready for this...

That Nintendo might be looking to buy Platinum Games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...eblog_on_platinum_gamesnintendos_love_affair/

I highly doubt this is the case considering it's a rumor. Still, how crazy would it be if the reason Scalebound was cancelled was because of a buyout, and now Microsoft is continuing without Platinum because they still own the IP?

 

[LukasTaves]

To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.

It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.

Horizon was hated? Where? Perhaps one in every 100 person would say something bad about the game, but it was mostly praise.

And honestly, the praise towards Horizon combat and the shunning of Scalebound's was hard to understand imo, because except for the E3 coop trailer, it was much better.

I mean that's the first showing they had of the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGwsufc_Vw

And ok, performance was bad, really bad. But how people respond to that as being a crap? The graphics were a-m-a-z-i-n-g, the combat shown puts almost every other open world game to shame (perhaps not Dragon Dogma, but that is a high bar)... I honestly don't know.

 

[CryptiK]

Trademark renewals are normal. This doesnt mean the game is in development, it means someone can't profit off the name.

 

[LukasTaves]

Anyway, this is a good place as any to post this:

https://xbox.uservoice.com/forums/2...17675614-bring-back-development-of-scalebound

If the game indeed had so much potential let's make ourselves listened. Who knows if we can force to bring it back?

 

[xxMaximusxx]

I'm sure Microsoft has done this before and renewed trademarks just to protect it. Does anyone have a list of other games they've done this for that aren't in development (that we know of?)

 

[VoodooProject]

It will be reannounced at E3 9 years from now.

Just like GT Sport lol.

 

[Bulby]

Would love them to re reveal at E3.

Classic, band break up and re union tour tactic.

 

[flkraven]

Anyway, this is a good place as any to post this:

https://xbox.uservoice.com/forums/2...17675614-bring-back-development-of-scalebound

If the game indeed had so much potential let's make ourselves listened. Who knows if we can force to bring it back?

No one actually cares. A few were excited for it, but the majority had either a fleeting interests or gave zero fucks at all. It showed poorly, aand it went several shows without a release date in sight. Now that it's cancelled it was hot shit and many are outraged.

 

[Unreal Champ]

Why do you assume the problems stemmed from them having a problem with platinum?

The game may have just been not shaping up.

It looked rough when we saw it

And what makes you think those problems weren't Microsoft's fault?

 

[azertydu91]

So here's a theory I'd like to throw out if it hasn't been discussed already.

Gameblog was the originator of the Yoshi + Rabbids game rumor for Switch, which by now is all but confirmed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1293731

But they also reported, get ready for this...

That Nintendo might be looking to buy Platinum Games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...eblog_on_platinum_gamesnintendos_love_affair/

I highly doubt this is the case considering it's a rumor. Still, how crazy would it be if the reason Scalebound was cancelled was because of a buyout, and now Microsoft is continuing without Platinum because they still own the IP?

It might comes from a mistranslation or a misinterpretation, Julien Chieze said that Nintendo were in good term with Platinum Games and were interested in buying them so that was something hat may happen.
But all of that was before the success of Nier Automata, now it's probable that Platinum wants to keep their independency.

All in all I can guess that platinum will try to keep away from MS and keep doing either multiplatforms titles and/or console exclusives for either Sony and Nintendo.

 

[atr0cious]

We're still talking about this? Did some news happen or none of that? I do wonder if MS ever decides to go back to it. Seems like they haven't fully given up on it, otherwise why renew it?

Nope, now it's just console warriors defending MS' continued shit practices by trying to rewrite history. So you know, another day on GAF.

 

[InquisitorAles]

Nope, now it's just console warriors defending MS' continued shit practices by trying to rewrite history. So you know, another day on GAF.

So everyone who doesn't think that MS are bad and pure evil is console warriors?

 

[LukasTaves]

So everyone who doesn't think that MS are bad and pure evil is console warriors?

It's history bro, can't argue with that.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Nope, now it's just console warriors defending MS' continued shit practices by trying to rewrite history. So you know, another day on GAF.

That's hilarious coming from this complete shitpost.

You have absolutely no evidence on what happened in the Scalebound situation to back your words up, but I guess we can take atr0cious's posts as gospel cause, you know, reasons.

And the fact your willing to condemn people defending MS without the facts and yet have nothing to say about the people using the hyperbole in the other direction is pretty telling, by the way.

 

[Synth]

And what makes you think those problems weren't Microsoft's fault?

What makes you think they were.

There's a lot of things I can imagine being the direct effect of a publisher doing a poor job... but the core gameplay mechanics looking bad? Why would that be?

 

[Nanashrew]

NO, I just find it almost impossible to believe that one Level 5 game would have been the game to change the fortunes of XBox in Japan, more so a MMORPG. When online RPG weren't that big in Japan at the time or a Level 5 RPG ever sold in the numbers Square or Enix could boast

MS would have needed to make Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy exclusive to the Orginal Xbox or 360 to make any real sort of impact

Okay then, ignoring True Fantasy Live Online for a moment, MS has done little to get more JP support. Looking at titles you brought up, Star Ocean 4 was on Xbox 360, Star Ocean 5 is PlayStation exclusive though it likely doesn't have to be.

Tales series are starting to get Steam releases, no reason multiplatform can't happen at some point, but I see it highly unlikely we'll get an Xbox version cause IIRC they have no interest in ever doing that again. Meanwhile there's a Tales title planned for the Switch coming next year.

There haven't been too many unique or standout Japanese titles to hit Xbox One like there were for the 360 and OG Xbox. Like Lost Oddysey, Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata or Enchanted Arms to name a few. Or some of Sega stuff.

Level-5 has never made a single title for the Xbox family at all.

You still Get Final Fantasy though, and whatever bone that's thrown to the Xbox from JP publishers via multiplatform titles, I guess..


It's really dwindled down to nothing. Their history with cancellations, or even their recent ones have not left anyone with confidence. Mix that in with their frequent poor relations with Japanese developers and you got a recipe for disaster.

Its likely too late for MS to get the kind of support they had just last gen when people thought of the 360 as the Dreamcast successor, or the nice exclusives OG Xbox had like Ninja Gaiden Black and DOA3.

EDIT: And yeah, they didn't do much to foster an audience for them too. You got some hits, but it was never enough in the end.

 

[atr0cious]

What makes you think they were.

There's a lot of things I can imagine being the direct effect of a publisher doing a poor job... but the core gameplay mechanics looking bad? Why would that be?

This is what I was talking about earlier. This was the first game platinum fans really didn't get hype for after a couple showings. There's something wrong if the target audience doesn't want what you're cooking, especially coming from a man who arguably has no even average games on his resume, all classics.

That's hilarious coming from this complete shitpost.

You have absolutely no evidence on what happened in the Scalebound situation to back your words up, but I guess we can take atr0cious's posts as gospel cause, you know, reasons.

And the fact your willing to condemn people defending MS without the facts and yet have nothing to say about the people using the hyperbole in the other direction is pretty telling, by the way.

We are not going to get the complete story ever, but if you can't even look at what ms has done with their own IP like Fable and Phantom Dust , then want to lay ​the blame at the feet of one of the best mercenary devs around, you need to bring more then feelings. Not to mention we have several insiders saying MS fucked with time lines just like Zenimax.

 

[Liquidsnakeiv]

I know Microsoft has its issues, and its lack of support for 1st party and significant exclusive 3rd party games has got it in the predicament that it is in now, but I just don't think there is anyway they got as far into Scalebound's development as they did, and just decided...nahhh....nevermind, obviously, Platinum was having issues. It sucks that we aren't going to get what seemed like a really neat concept, but at the same time, man kudos for Platinum for trying a new concept that unfortunately didn't work, and Microsoft obviously had to do what they had to do, and shut it down. Ultimately, they have to stay profitable, and sometimes that means tough decisions. I am just not ready to throw in the towel on the XBOX brand, and Microsoft's ability as a game publisher. I don't have any fanboy love for any of the companies, I just love the games, but let's don't be completely blind and pretend like XBOX doesn't have the most cohesive online experience with LIVE, while right now Sony is killing it with the exclusives. Regardless, it is a great time to be a gamer....

 

[Zeta Oni]

This is what I was talking about earlier. This was the first game platinum fans really didn't get hype for after a couple showings. There's something wrong if the target audience doesn't want what you're cooking, especially coming from a man who arguably has no even average games on his resume, all classics.
We are not going to get the complete story ever, but if you can't even look at what ms has done with their own IP like Fable and Phantom Dust , then want to lay ​the blame at the feet of one of the best mercenary devs around, you need to bring more then feelings. Not to mention we have several insiders saying MS fucked with time lines just like Zenimax.

Your absolutely right we can never know the whole story, but as someone who followed the game really closely, allow me to offer an alternative theory:

Name me one project Platinum did previously to Scalebound that would be considered anywhere near the same level budget-wise?

And your answer is gonna be silence, because they never have. Scalebound would have been the biggest production Platinum would have ever made, and for a developer that previously specialized in niche AA projects, going over to AAA development makes more sense to me as being the root of the issue rather than MS investing millions into a project just to cancel it after 3 years because of.....Milestone abuse? The game looked bad every time it was shown, got the reaction of a wet noodle at its main E3 showing, and suffered from a large identity crisis from the moment it was shown off to the moment it was canceled.

And by the time Kamiya started getting a hang on what the project could be (go back and read about the behind the scenes presentation at Gamescom 2016), it was too late and MS pulled out.

Was there dirt on MS's hands as well?

Almost certainly. You don't invest the money AAA cost and let the dev run wild, and that relationship was probably the most relevant factor. Odds are after each one of those gameplay showings and the reactions they got, Kamiya's control was lessened.

And when that happens to a project you've been dreaming of making since you were a child?

Enough to make anyone need time off.

But I'm not gonna sit here and assume that was all MS's fault when it doesn't add up. No, the game looked bad from day 1, and it wasn't MS developing what was getting that reaction, it was P*. And throwing me a Wikipedia page full of games P* made previously with no issue (that you know of) doesn't really mean anything here, when again, none of their projects was ever on the "scale" of "Scalebound".

 

[LukasTaves]

This is what I was talking about earlier. This was the first game platinum fans really didn't get hype for after a couple showings. There's something wrong if the target audience doesn't want what you're cooking, especially coming from a man who arguably has no even average games on his resume, all classics.
We are not going to get the complete story ever, but if you can't even look at what ms has done with their own IP like Fable and Phantom Dust , then want to lay ​the blame at the feet of one of the best mercenary devs around, you need to bring more then feelings. Not to mention we have several insiders saying MS fucked with time lines just like Zenimax.

We don't know the full story about Phantom Dust either, we know one side of the story and one highly biased at that because they lost the company when they lost the contract.

But we do know the story about Fable Legends, it was a complete money sink, that they delayed over and over, and was no where near close to completion (it was going to get delayed again before being cancelled, heck, the beta was so far away that many areas didn't even had any textures on) and worst of all it had terrible player retention rates during the beta.

So no, there's nothing to back this falacy that Ms fucks dev over just cause. Or should we look at spot cases like SFV, and No Man Sky to say Sony forced unfinished games to the market, or how they were abusing the Rime devs because they dropped the game? No one would say that because it's a stupid proposition, which honestly should be a hint.

 

[LukasTaves]

Your absolutely right we can never know the whole story, but as someone who followed the game really closely, allow me to offer an alternative theory:

Name me one project Platinum did previously to Scalebound that would be considered anywhere near the same level budget wise?

And your answer is gonna be silence, because they never have. Scalebound would have been the biggest production Platinum would have ever made, and for a developer that previously specialized in niche AA projects, going over to AAA development makes more sense to me as being the root of the issue rather than MS investing millions into a project just to cancel it after 3 years because of.....Milestone abuse?

The game looked bad every time it was shown, got the reaction of a wet noodle at its main E3 showing, and suffered from a large identity crisis from the moment it was shown off to the moment it was canceled.

But the time Kamiya started getting a hang on what the project could be (go back and read about the behind the scenes presentation at Gamescom 2016), it was too late and MS pulled out.

Was there dirt on MS's hands as well?

Almost certainly. You don't invest the money AAA cost and let the dev run wild, and that relationship was probably the most relevant factor. Odds are after each one of those gameplay showings and the reactions they got, Kamiya's control was lessened.

And when that happens to a project you've been dreaming of making since you were a child?

Enough to make anyone need time off.

But I'm not gonna sit here and assume that situation like it was all MS's fault. No, the game looked bad from day 1, and it wasn't MS developing what was getting that reaction, it was P*. And throwing me a Wikipedia page full of games P* made previously with no issue (that you know of) doesn't really mean anything here, when again, none of their projects was ever on the "scale" of "Scalebound".

Now that I disagree. The game was awesome from the first gameplay shown.

I mean, just look at that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGwsufc_Vw

Name me one single open world game that makes this gameplay look bad.

 

[blakep267]

Now that I disagree. The game was awesome from the first gameplay shown.

I mean, just look at that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGwsufc_Vw

Name me one single open world game that makes this gameplay look bad.

It looked bad from a technical standpoint. I didn't mind the actual gameplay but it wouldn't be wrong to say it looked rough

 

[Zeta Oni]

Now that I disagree. The game was awesome from the first gameplay shown.

I mean, just look at that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGwsufc_Vw

Name me one single open world game that makes this gameplay look bad.

Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen

Ironically directed by the guy in charge of the DMC series, Hideaki Itsuno , the same series the got its start in Kamiya's hands.

And as a fan of that game, I personally thought Scalebound looked amazing, but for the sake for the current discussion ill be taking the perspective of the majority, which did not agree.

 

[atr0cious]

Your absolutely right we can never know the whole story, but as someone who followed the game really closely, allow me to offer an alternative theory:

Name me one project Platinum did previously to Scalebound that would be considered anywhere near the same level budget-wise?

And your answer is gonna be silence, because they never have. Scalebound would have been the biggest production Platinum would have ever made, and for a developer that previously specialized in niche AA projects, going over to AAA development makes more sense to me as being the root of the issue rather than MS investing millions into a project just to cancel it after 3 years because of.....Milestone abuse? The game looked bad every time it was shown, got the reaction of a wet noodle at its main E3 showing, and suffered from a large identity crisis from the moment it was shown off to the moment it was canceled.

And by the time Kamiya started getting a hang on what the project could be (go back and read about the behind the scenes presentation at Gamescom 2016), it was too late and MS pulled out.

Was there dirt on MS's hands as well?

Almost certainly. You don't invest the money AAA cost and let the dev run wild, and that relationship was probably the most relevant factor. Odds are after each one of those gameplay showings and the reactions they got, Kamiya's control was lessened.

And when that happens to a project you've been dreaming of making since you were a child?

Enough to make anyone need time off.

But I'm not gonna sit here and assume that was all MS's fault when it doesn't add up. No, the game looked bad from day 1, and it wasn't MS developing what was getting that reaction, it was P*. And throwing me a Wikipedia page full of games P* made previously with no issue (that you know of) doesn't really mean anything here, when again, none of their projects was ever on the "scale" of "Scalebound".

Wonderful 101 was their former biggest project, and it has 5 player coop. I'm not saying they didn't start doing stuff they're not comfortable with, which is where it's implied MS took them down this road. Not even TMNT looks this far removed from a platinum game. MS clearly wanted a focus on large connectivity and multiplayer, which besides Bayo 2 coop and Anarchy Reigns 4 way, really isn't something they do. But I have a hard time believing that platinum of all devs was the main reason this faltered, especially since they're the Kyra Sedgwick of game devs.

We don't know the full story about Phantom Dust either, we know one side of the story and one highly biased at that because they lost the company when they lost the contract.

But we do know the story about Fable Legends, it was a complete money sink, that they delayed over and over, and was no where near close to completion (it was going to get delayed again before being cancelled, heck, the beta was so far away that many areas didn't even had any textures on) and worst of all it had terrible player retention rates during the beta.

So no, there's nothing to back this falacy that Ms fucks dev over just cause. Or should we look at spot cases like SFV, and No Man Sky to say Sony forced unfinished games to the market, or how they were abusing the Rime devs because they dropped the game?

Some people have said this though? Why the Sony Too? I'm talking about a known predator. Don't try to change the subject. Make a thread about Sony fucking a studio and I'll be there. Guess we're gonna act like no one laments closed dev studios now because MS is bad at their job of cultivating developer support.

 

[Sunset Samurai]

I saw the edit is the dream dead?

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen

Ironically directed by the guy in charge of the DMC series, Hideaki Itsuno , the same series the got its start in Kamiya's hands.

And as a fan of that game, I personally thought Scalebound looked amazing, but for the sake for the current discussion ill be taking the perspective of the majority, which did not agree.

My man *fist bump*

I think in the end we can all agree this was probably the right decision correct? Like there is a concept there that comes about from a wonderful night around the fire where you talk about the coolest shit you can think of and how you would stuff it in a game.

There was something ... missing ... in how the character moved/animated. It looked like P* ambition without the P* expertise. Anyone else knowwhatimean?

 

[Zeta Oni]

Wonderful 101 was their former biggest project, and it has 5 player coop. I'm not saying they didn't start doing stuff they're not comfortable with, which is where it's implied MS took them down this road. Not even TMNT looks this far removed from a platinum game. MS clearly wanted a focus on large connectivity and multiplayer, which besides Bayo 2 coop and Anarchy Reigns 4 way, really isn't something they do. But I have a hard time believing that platinum of all devs was the main reason this faltered, especially since they're the Kyra Sedgwick of game devs.

Some people have said this though? Why the Sony Too? I'm talking about a known predator. Don't try to change the subject. Make a thread about Sony fucking a studio and I'll be there. Guess we're gonna act like no one laments closed dev studios now because MS is bad at their job of cultivating developer support.

That's the key part though, I'm not saying it was all platinum, I'm saying I don't think either party was 100% at fault. People are happy to jump to one extreme or the other, when I imagine neither party is happy about the situation and each had their own hand in its issues and I believe the games public reaction was a relevant factor in its cancellation.

Personally I take a lot of issue with how MS marketed the game, which was very poorly. I know the focus was heavily on Thuban (the dragon) and Drew's relationship, but they really should have delved more into the combat (what P* is known for) blended with actually showing off the world of the game.

 

[Chris1]

That's the key part though, I'm not saying it was all platinum, I'm saying I don't think either party was 100% at fault. People are happy to jump to one extreme or the other, when I imagine neither party is happy about the situation and each had their own hand in its issues and I believe the games public reaction was a relevant factor in its cancellation.

Personally I take a lot of issue with how MS marketed the game, which was very poorly. I know the focus was heavily on Thuban (the dragon) and Drew's relationship, but they really should have delved more into the combat (what P* is known for) blended with actually showing off the world of the game.

Pretty much

Noone is saying MS is innocent, or Platinum is innocent, but it's obvious both parties played a part in its cancellation. If it was 100% on MS, we would have heard about it from Twitter instead Kamiya was all apologetic. That tells me Platinum had a part in it.