Reineldinho
Member
I really don't understand such negativity nor the narrowed vision. It not like MS hasn't delivered good 1st party games this gen so far and everything which Platinum has done is pure gold either
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Microsoft renews Scalebound trademark
- Thread starter Lichter
- Start date
I really don't understand such negativity nor the narrowed vision. It not like MS hasn't delivered good 1st party games this gen so far and everything which Platinum has done is pure gold either
Prototype Viktor
Member
good times good times, i can't wait for Agent to be re-revealed in 2021
InquisitorAles
Member
Mods should add new info in OP and change title because this thread is keeps getting worse, people obviously ignoring Jez tweet and jumping the gun.
The only genuinely bad game platinum made was licenced trash with the budget of a happy meal.
That Microsoft also made some good games this gen doesn't change the fact that they fucked a bunch over, which is why they don't deserve the benefit of a doubt.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I liked what I saw and always felt like the odd one out, not understanding people's hate on it. My only put off was initially thinking the character was really lame and westernized for a perceived xbox fan, but it didn't bother me for long.
I also like the TMNT game they made, which shouldn't have been rushed out for the movie and should have also been $30, so maybe I'm just not the same kind of Platinum fan.
Hatefilled Vengeance
Member
Korra is perfectly fine for a 15$ game and transformers devastation is fucking amazing
Imperfected
Member
I mean, Platinum has worked with basically most of Japan at this point (they have directly collaborated with Nintendo, Square-Enix, Konami, and had games published by SEGA and Activision) without serious incident or failure to deliver in the past.
This last year they delivered Nier: Automata on a tight schedule in superb release condition, despite the fact they were working with Square-Enix, who generally celebrate when their projects release in the same decade they were originally slated for.
There's an abundance of evidence that Platinum delivers work on time and often under-budget, and aside from Kamiya's twitter shenanigans, there isn't even significant drama to be seen when it comes to their working relationships with publishers. As such, it's pretty easy for people to assume the problems were on Microsoft's end.
The "problem" in this case likely being that when they originally greenlit the project they expected the XB1 to have much better penetration in certain markets (Asia as a region, hardcore action gamers, young gamers, etc.) than it does. They probably deemed that the lack of a market on their platform would lead to the game tanking, and pulled out to save further development costs without otherwise having a particularly strong development-related "reason". Bereft of a more logical or better-supported conclusion, this is the one I will personally stick with.
And that's fine--it's a logical approach to running a business--but it means that if people want someone to blame, then they should most certainly be looking at Microsoft.
Pretty much. This game would have definitely helped diversify Xbox's lineup but I always doubted that it would have sold well.
Reineldinho
Member
So there are bad games on Platinum's portfolio and good games under MS sponsorship, but somehow while the former deserves the benefit of the doubt the later doesn't. Oki
Stop being intentionally obtuse
Jeff Freecss
Member
Team Andromeda
Member
Stop being a blinkered PS generation fanboy. Transformers Devastation wasn't that great, Star Fox Zero the worst Star Fox game I ever played and looked a joke too, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutants in Manhattan not brilliant, not good at all
All corps will make a couple of bad games over the years. Other than True Fantasy Live Online and Scalebound I can't recall MS dropped games that people wanted or they was a huge outcry. Scalebound seemed too have missed too many milestones and MS weren't happy.
Did people hate MS never got a 360 because of MS dropping True Fantasy Live near the end of the XBox? .
I don't get where all this Scalebound love came from considering each thread before the cancellation got to about 2 pages and those 2 pages contained a plethora of hate for the game.
But MS be MS and the game was a masterpiece.
Am I doing it right?
InquisitorAles
Member
But he is right that some people intentionally bringing only negativity about Microsoft in those threads.
Imperfected
Member
I know people who were pretty upset about Phantom Dust and Fable Legends.
Bits N Pieces
Member
So the fact that this thread is simply about MS renewing a trademark allows yourself and a few others to project your bias and vent about how much you hate MS?
Whatever floats your boat and if it makes you feel better then charge on, I suppose..... lol
GhostTrick
Banned
That's not the point he made.
Let me just put the situation into perspective:
-Platinum Games is a developper, not a publisher: Their role is, when contracted by a publisher, to work under their decisions to deliver a product. The end result depends on the publisher directions and the developper abilities.
In Platinum Games history, they mostly delivered great games. There were bad games.
What is the common point between the great games and what is the common point between bad games. These great games were developped under normal conditions and normal budget with the will to make a great game, shipped in normal schedule. These bad games were developped under wrong conditions. They were either meant to be fast developped cash in based on a licensed IP (TMNT, Korra) that were meant to be shipped on a fast deadline. Star Fox Zero was co-developped by PG. Their role was developping assets but they were under supervision of Nintendo which was the decision maker for the gameplay, the story and all these elements.
tl;dr: Platinum Games makes good stuff when they have normal working conditions. They do bad stuff when you ask them to make a game in 2 weeks and 3 dollars budget.
-Microsoft is a publisher: They set a direction, a deadline and a budget. In their history as a publisher, as a decision maker, it led to good games. It also led to cancelled games/closed studios.
So yes, I can see why people would blame Microsoft when a developper output depends on the decision maker itself.
I think you're getting wrongly invested into it. When someone criticize a company because said company make a dumb decision. It's not hate, it's just arguments based on facts and logical conclusions. When people criticize UWP or Microsoft 1st party managements, it may be because there are legitimate reasons to do so.
A thread about a cancelled videogame will have negativity surrounding the party that cancelled it. Where is issue? Why should people be positive about that? It's inherently a negative topic
Me the playststion fanboy ahahahahhahahaha
Storm lands, fable legends, phantom dust reboot, the latter case even had a dev talking to kotaku about how Microsoft made intentionally unreachable milestones for the devs, an article that was posted in this thread multiple times already.
How about you complain to those hypocrites then instead of me who was genuinely excited for the game since it's announcement?
A thread about a cancelled videogame will have people talking about the game's cancellation yes. Everything else is just a pure protection of yours
Blops2 back in the charts back up what I said re delivery of BC, try another angle to dismiss what I said bruh
Scalebound actually made me interested in the idea of owning an Xbox One. I have no interest in it without Platinum.
Star Fox Zero was all largely Nintendo's doing, especially in forcing the second screen aspect. I doubt Platinum could have done much to make it better. TMNT and Korra can be traced back to one specific director, Eiro Shirahama. Transformers was good. Bayonetta 2 was good, Nier Automata was good, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance was good, Wonderful 101 was heavily divisive but the quality was there and I personally found it to be good. Bayonetta 1 is good, and people have been crying out for Vanquish to come to PC because it is good.
True Fantasy Live's cancellation actually helped seal the deal in cratering interest for Xbox in Japan. Japan was really hyped for that game from Level 5. Its spiritual successor of sorts moved to 3DS.
MS does in fact suck with a lot of their business relations in Japan. Plenty won't ever make an exclusive for them again.
Star Fox Zero was all largely Nintendo's doing, especially in forcing the second screen aspect. I doubt Platinum could have done much to make it better. TMNT and Korra can be traced back to one specific director, Eiro Shirahama. Transformers was good. Bayonetta 2 was good, Nier Automata was good, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance was good, Wonderful 101 was heavily divisive but the quality was there and I personally found it to be good. Bayonetta 1 is good, and people have been crying out for Vanquish to come to PC because it is good.
True Fantasy Live's cancellation actually helped seal the deal in cratering interest for Xbox in Japan. Japan was really hyped for that game from Level 5. Its spiritual successor of sorts moved to 3DS.
MS does in fact suck with a lot of their business relations in Japan. Plenty won't ever make an exclusive for them again.
UnemployedVillain
Member
And I'm saying it's ridiculous to act like Microsoft getting BC workings is a big deal when we've seen it with the PS2/PS1, Wii/GC, Wii U/Wii, DS/GBC, 3DS/DS
A lot of people are highlighting that Platinum simply put out great games when left to it... but I'd argue that the mistake to pin on MS is likely less about mismanaging them, and more what they decided to fund from them in the first place. Scalebound was apparently Kamiya's dream game, right?... So... why was it never made up to now? Why was it "shelved twice" before MS even entered the picture?
Scalebound as a concept had already failed before under Platinum's own direction... so whilst it's easy to come in here saying how anyone that thinks it may not be "wasn't 100% MS' fault" is a "delusional MS fanboy, a delusional Platinum anti-fanboy, or both"... maybe stop to consider why it the game wasn't already in existence, despite being on of Platinum's first projects that they wanted to make.
He said "like we've not seen before", which in the console space is true. Unlike the OG Xbox mode on 360, Wii Mode on Wii U, PS1 or PS2 modes on PS3 etc, BC on XB1 is integrated seamlessly with the consoles standard updated feature set. Nintendo charged an upgrade fee to bring a Virtual Console purchase up to date, and Sony's currently just outright selling you the same product all over again on PS4.
The XB1 can't actually play the 360 games as they are stored on disc. They honor it with a digital copy anyway though... and that's not something I believe has been done in the realm of backwards compatibility before.
Scalebound as a concept had already failed before under Platinum's own direction... so whilst it's easy to come in here saying how anyone that thinks it may not be "wasn't 100% MS' fault" is a "delusional MS fanboy, a delusional Platinum anti-fanboy, or both"... maybe stop to consider why it the game wasn't already in existence, despite being on of Platinum's first projects that they wanted to make.
He said "like we've not seen before", which in the console space is true. Unlike the OG Xbox mode on 360, Wii Mode on Wii U, PS1 or PS2 modes on PS3 etc, BC on XB1 is integrated seamlessly with the consoles standard updated feature set. Nintendo charged an upgrade fee to bring a Virtual Console purchase up to date, and Sony's currently just outright selling you the same product all over again on PS4.
The XB1 can't actually play the 360 games as they are stored on disc. They honor it with a digital copy anyway though... and that's not something I believe has been done in the realm of backwards compatibility before.
GhostTrick
Banned
Because a lot of concept evolves and are radically different between conception and release. It's just that you never have the insight of said projects. The Wonderful 101 was a totally different game before release, yet it happened and was amazing.
And it's even more complicated to pitch projects when you're a dev with no publishers.
Scalebound as a concept, I dont think was at fault. I mean, they basically had a game in a showable state.
And on top of that, it's not the first time Hideki Kamiya had concepts that were shelved and then turned into successful games. Did you know that Devil May Cry was born from a Resident Evil 4 prototype ?
Team Andromeda
Member
So a Level 5 RPG for the XBox would have all the difference in Japan, where PSU, Blue Dragoon, Lost Oddesy, Tales of Vesperia, Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata, FF 13, Star Ocean IV all failed to sell the XBox 360 to any big degree in Japan?
Yeah right. Japan as always disliked Western made consoles, well maybe bar the 3DO which did rather well there.
More PS generation talk ?. MS comes in with the money, you get the games made for you. Money will always talk
Bits N Pieces
Member
Constructive criticism is fine and should be welcomed, I don't see that here. I see people just venting and to the main parts of your post although it does seem logical its all just guesswork on your part. Platinum worked on Scalebound for over three years and it never looked good, ever. MS must have funded it to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, do you think Phil wanted to cancel it or was it more cost effective to just cut his losses?
I don't know, hence the reason I am not spreading my opinion as fact. No one knows shit about what went down and never will, so all if this is just fan theories and guesswork.
A showable state and a game that was ready to be released are quite clearly not the same thing, considering the game was being consistently pushed back. Based on the reception to the game's various showings the concept was going to have to evolve plenty from where it already was in order for the game to have a legitimate shot at success.
The point is, the concept had been sidelined multiple times in favour of other concepts that were likely to be showing better promise. So other publishers are coming along picking up these other concepts and not Scalebound.. and then MS comes along and not only picks Scalebound, but then funds it to a scale of being Platinum's largest project by far. So yea, this still does fall on MS being stupid... but the choice of project seems like the first real mistake. If they'd picked up Nier for example, we may well have got the exact same game out of Platinum... and if anyone else had picked up Scalebound, it would still probably have either been canned, or released to market as one of Platinum's clear weaker efforts... which is why nobody else probably had picked it up.
And yes, I know about Devil May Cry. But it seems that the concept was made into something that actually worked prior to us hearing about it... rather than hoping it would pan out at some point before release.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Some of y'all are transparent as fuck...
The only threads that had more than a handful of posts where the negative threads...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1232689
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159535&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1165862&page=1
Now here are some of the positive news threads or just general discussion threads about the games features...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1266378&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1240935&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1266177&page=1
And some choice quotes from the E3 disappointment thread last year...(two pages, there's another 16 to go through if anyone wants to..)
I see you bunch of punks.
The only threads that had more than a handful of posts where the negative threads...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1232689
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159535&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1165862&page=1
Now here are some of the positive news threads or just general discussion threads about the games features...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1266378&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1240935&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1266177&page=1
And some choice quotes from the E3 disappointment thread last year...(two pages, there's another 16 to go through if anyone wants to..)
Scalebound Looked dry and uninspired. Platinum seems to be losing their touch. Was excited for the recent Turtles game and well...
Scalebound hurts. I just assumed Platinum was making Devil May Cry but with Dragons/Dinos.
What I saw...was not what I expected
I see you bunch of punks.
Acquiescence
Member
Without concrete details as to what went on behind the scenes, it's nigh-on impossible to know who to lay the blame at for Scalebound's cancellation.
All I know is, the game looked fucking awful from the very beginning.
All I know is, the game looked fucking awful from the very beginning.
Yea, but Devil May Cry started out as a Resident Evil prototype.
I'm just playing GhostTrick
bitbydeath
Member
To be fair lots of games get hated on but sell well. Just check out Destiny 2 threads for the latest example.
It's not alone either, Halo, COD, Horizon ZD, Splatoon. The list goes on and on and on.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Exactly. Every thread about it was a wall of "meh's" until it was cancelled, then it was the great injustice of the gaming industry perpetrated by big, bad Microsoft.
I thought it looked promising and would love to see the IP revived in some way.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Maybe the whole thing was a publicity stunt.
Yea, but Platinum Games have been historical bombas when they're astounding... when they're not...
Also, Splatoon's one of those games where people were mostly talking negatively about its sales potential, not that it looked like a bad game. More mainstream stuff like Halo, COD or anything Ubisoft, I think we all know better than to pay any real attention to what GAF thinks tbh.
Honestly, when I saw the first announcement/reveal of this game, I thought that it was going to be a bad game that relied on "dinosaurs" and "dragons" along with an edgy MC to make it cool. You could see that the game had no... idk which word to use, and they didn't even know what do with it, just by the gameplay videos they showed in which you just went aroudn killing stuff in an open world with over commentary of "let's go baby". Didn't have much faith.
I never had any expectations about this game, so wasn't surprised when they shelved it.
I never had any expectations about this game, so wasn't surprised when they shelved it.
Other than one short snippet of the game world, the game looked really bad. I also think it was very big budget for Platinum and they got the time until something happened. 4 years + dev time right? Who knows what happened, the game play from what they showed wasn't coming together, you can't blame the audience if you haven't been able to show anything of worth for many years and Microsoft probably had similar thoughts. Sometimes ideas don't work out. I could see an argument if the game had a great showing and big meanie Microsoft throw a spanner in the works forcing multiplayer or something but it never happened. You really think Microsoft would cancel a good game?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Yup lol. I've been excited for Scalebound's potential since it was announced, and I saw plenty of people who shared that sentiment. Just because there were people on GAF and in the gaming media who weren't excited for Scalebound doesn't mean there weren't a lot of people who were looking forward to it.
4 player open world co-op with a lot of customization for not only your playable character, but your goddamn huge dragon, fighting against colossal enemies. Throw in the hope for Platinum's Bayonetta quality and it's no damn wonder there are people disappointed by its cancellation.
Its not benefit of the doubt. Its pure fucking logic for anyone with half a brain. Why the hell would Microsoft cancel Scalebound for any reason beside the game development being shit? You guys sound like Microsoft has anything to gain from cancelling games. It was a huge PR hit when they cancelled and the knew it but had to do it anyways. Now explain to me how Platinum is so innocent and a victim of Microsoft's evil plans.
bitbydeath
Member
Yep, exactly my point.
"Felt", yeah that's true. But reality is a different beast, tho. Game looked like cold ass.
Because it's devoid of context. The game wasn't receiving a warm reception both here and elsewhere. I even recall people claiming this title created their sole interest in xbone... Only for the reveal to make them say nevermind. And I'm supposed to believe want MS on a stake for canceling?
There are exceptions though. There are games that essentially should be GAF darlings. Anything Platinum should really fall into this. We are basically the target demo for such a game, and if threads on the game are either dying by page 2, or filled with primarily negative impressions, then for that type of game it's a bit more worrying. You wouldn't have the mainstream COD/FIFA/GTA audience paying attention. It's a game with a minority audience, and that audience was saying it looked shite.
Imperfected
Member
The simple fact is that when they started this generation they expected to have much better XB1 market penetration, especially in foreign markets. They started a lot of projects based on that assumption, and when it became apparent that they were not going to come anywhere close to their initial sales projections, many of those projects became financially infeasible to support.
This boils down to math from a publishing perspective. You anticipate there will be X million XB1 owners by the time the game releases, and based on that you extrapolate Y million likely sales. That tells how you how much you can comfortably budget for a project. A game like Scalebound, intended to broaden Microsoft's appeal in markets where they historically have performed poorly, was likely greenlit already with the baseline assumption being little to no profit on the investment.
Then, when the system fails to hit the requisite sales numbers, the math changes: you now have half (conservatively) of your X and Y, but the budget you need to allocate to finish the game hasn't changed. The loss on the project is going to be quite a bit larger, and investing in the Japanese market has become a fool's errand given how unlikely anything is to salvage sales in the region by that point.
This is the reality faced not just by Scalebound, but by many projects Microsoft greenlit in the run-up and early days of the XB1. Their funding was based on the assumption that system sales would be much, much better than they have been and the entire enterprise would be much, much more profitable than it currently is. It's perfectly understandable that they've had to cancel a number of projects in this situation, but you really shouldn't go and just start shitting on all of the developers because they were "obviously behind schedule" and there's "no other logical explanation".
Not only is there one, it's far more logical.
bitbydeath
Member
There are no darlings and Platinum have been hated on for many of their games, remember all the flak they got for Metal Gear Rising?
Maybe for the same reason crackdown 3 has been delayed so much, maybe for the same reason they cancelled phantom dust after changing development goals multiple times, maybe for the same reason they cancelled storm lands only a few months after starting development, maybe for the same reason they cancelled fable legends even tho it was close to being finished, maybe for the same reason they dropped all promotion for d4 and dumped it on their DL store without announcing a releasedate or giving a press release beforehand, maybe for the same reason they dropped kinect, maybe for the same reason they said that quantum break is totes win10store exclusive just to announce a Steam release 3 months later.
Microsoft is obviously known this gen to only make smart thought out Business decision that they stick with and everything else is just them having a really bad streak of luck with their third party devs