Haha, ok Horp. Let's leave it there.
Man, you have really gone of the edge with this one. I hope you don't get too heartbroken when the game is finally released.
Haha, ok Horp. Let's leave it there.
Man, you have really gone of the edge with this one. I hope you don't get too heartbroken when the game is finally released.
I haven't in the slightest, which is apparent from my posts regarding my expectations which are very even.
Maybe I'm missing something here but this seems like a really silly complaint.
Just off the top of my head
A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics
4 entirely new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
LFG systems and Guilds
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
Improvements to how activities can be launched
Entirely new loot
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
+more I'm very likely missing
Why does Destiny 2 look like DLC but Uncharted 2 or Borderlands 2 or Halo 2 or Mirrors Edge 2 or basically any other sequel doesn't "look like DLC"
Even in Destiny's big DLC Taken King we only got 1 new location and some mild system quality of life improvements. Destiny 1 was certainly a game that evolved but not too the degree that D2 is changing things.
Additionally why does it matter if it looks like "DLC" or more specifically an Expansion.
World of Warcraft gets similar priced "expansions" frequently and that's a game that require a monthly sub to play. People don't really complain then.
I'm basically just trying to understand the perspective of people who feel this is more like a DLC than a Sequel and what basis they are using for comparison
Well you can tell yourself that, go head. Rarely have I seen such uncompromising fanboy defence, in all threads. To an even unatural extent, seeing as you haven't even seen much of the game. Well well, I've seen it many times on gaf and other places. Keep at it, I guess.
The things you listed are tweaks. Where is the innovation?
Please for the love of god take of the fanboy blindfold for just a second.
You know how this works. Thats not a Destiny thing, it's a games thing. Movies too, tbh.
All the dungeons, raids, patrols, whatever in the gloomy misty forest will be gloomy misty forest. Destiny 2 will be the same, mark my words.
Maybe I'm missing something here but this seems like a really silly complaint.
Just off the top of my head
A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics
4 entirely new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
LFG systems and Guilds
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
Improvements to how activities can be launched
Entirely new loot
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
+more I'm very likely missing
I've been vocal in my stance against snap judgements yes, I'm sure that can be a little annoying and if I've been obnoxious or insulting about it I apologise.
I haven't been uncompromising, nor have I been a fanboy about any of this. Go back and read the posts I've made and you'll see for yourself.
The idea every game needs to reinvent the wheel seems unsustainable.
I love Pokemon, but I won't pretend that isn't the same game every time. Sometimes it's okay if things don't vastly change.
If you truly think that, then you don't know what the word fanboy means.
And yes to the rest, except the uncompromising part. Scratch that; I've seen you admit multiple times that Destiny 1 has major flaws. Which then in turn of course should make you much more sceptical about D2, but no, everything is "fine".
The thing is I don't think there will be a Destiny 3. Destiny 2 will continue to evolve on PC as normal MMOs do, while the only update to the console versions will either be a collection of the expansions or a new version for the next generation of systems. Think of it as Destiny's version of A Realm Reborn.
I don't think I'm the only person to skip several of their remakes if not entire generations because of this very reason.The idea every game needs to reinvent the wheel seems unsustainable.
I love Pokemon, but I won't pretend that isn't the same game every time. Sometimes it's okay if things don't vastly change.
This seems to be devolving into irrational pessimism.
I don't think I'm the only person to skip several of their remakes if not entire generations because of that.
Exactly. Especially when the game needed a drastic overhaul at its core.
An effective soft reboot on next gen was always what we were going to get once they realised the foundation they had wasn't sustainable.
As long as it's a great game with enough content in its own right, I really don't understand the fuss.
Then find a a post ITT where I was a fanboy and explain it to me, please.
Destiny 1 had flaws, but they fixed a lot of them with TTK which shows they know what's good for the game. That went a long way in generating faith and good will in the community for a good reason.
Yes, they've made missteps since and will again, but I'm confident that the game itself will be in good shape at launch because they're proven they can learn from their mistakes and listen to the fanbase. I've also read everything they've said about the game and it all adds up to a convincing image.
This belief doesn't make me a fanboy, and neither does any post in any Destiny related thread.
Destiny's tempo is absolutely fine for 30fps. I've never known a console game get as many comments from PC players about how "good the 30fps feels here" (anecdotal, so take as you will).
Can start with a recent one. What the hell, man. What game's tempo is "fine" for 30 fps? You like, straight up write off the benefits of 60 fps with a simple "fine". This, this is fanboyism.
Can start with a recent one. What the hell, man. What game's tempo is "fine" for 30 fps? You like, straight up write off the benefits of 60 fps with a simple "fine". This, this is fanboyism.
I love Pokemon, but I won't pretend that isn't the same game every time. Sometimes it's okay if things don't vastly change.
Same as The Taken King dlc features list.
I don't think it "looks like DLC" and I'm not entirely sure what that means.
But I will say this. Destiny 2 looks like a sequel made specifically for people who enjoyed Destiny. That's fine, and that audience is probably big enough for Activision/Bungie. However, myself and plenty of other people really didn't like Destiny. It was a massive disappointment for a lot of us. I think a lot of people wanted or were expecting Destiny 2 to try to win us over, and that's clearly not the case. I wasn't expecting that so I'm not really disappointed, but I can see why a lot of people are. Sadly, it's hard for people a lot of people to articulate their thoughts and they come up with dumb complaints like "looks like DLC" in order to voice their disappointment.
Also, 30 FPS is fine and the game looks fine. If people cared about that technical shit they'd buy a PC (which they can now play Destiny 2 on). Acting like that's the issue driving a wedge between people who are pro-Destiny 2 and anti-Destiny 2 is completely disingenuous.
Can start with a recent one. What the hell, man. What game's tempo is "fine" for 30 fps? You like, straight up write off the benefits of 60 fps with a simple "fine". This, this is fanboyism.
Hi, Devil's advocate here. Destiny did have remarkably low input latency for a 30fps game. That lead to it feeling better than some 60fps games that came out on console and I can understand how people could feel that it ending up at 30 again would be fine.
Although I fully intend to get the game on PC so that I can - hopefully - run it at 144.
I think a BIG thing is that the people burned on content were expecting the transtion to the new engine to result in content being created easier and faster.
The fact that everything looks too familiar, the fact that there are a lot if remixed and reused assets/concepts, and most new additions promoted in the event not giving the impression that they couldn't have been done in the previous entry; kind of makes people ask 1: WTF were they doing for those 3 years, WTF was the new engine migration used for, why did we lose our gear technically?
One of the main things the beggining of the conference should have addressed is "Why Destiny 2 (from a technical standpoint)?" They didn't do that. It was "Destiny 2, GET HYPE, btw the community is awesome!"
I think a BIG thing is that the people burned on content were expecting the transition to the new engine to result in content being created easier and faster. And they wanted the confrence to highlight or address that concern of why most of Destiny 1 was adding DLC content that was lost in the original release concept.
The fact that everything looks too familiar, the fact that there are a lot if remixed and reused assets/concepts, and most new additions promoted in the event not giving the impression that they couldn't have been done in the previous entry; kind of makes people ask 1: WTF were they doing for those 3 years, WTF was the new engine migration used for, why did we lose our gear technically?
One of the main things the beggining of the conference should have addressed is "Why Destiny 2 (from a technical standpoint)?" They didn't do that. It was "Destiny 2, GET HYPE, btw the community is awesome!"
The idea every game needs to reinvent the wheel seems unsustainable.
I love Pokemon, but I won't pretend that isn't the same game every time. Sometimes it's okay if things don't vastly change.
This seems to be devolving into irrational pessimism.
Yeah content is still the biggest question but also the hardest thing for them to convince us of. They can promise regular content update with big additions to the game, but they'd be relying on us all believing them, and where content is concenred they absolutely haven't earned trust from most of us.
E3 is a big opportunity for them to try and convince us it's better this time around, but certainly announcing only 4 planets at launch again, a huge criticism of D1, is like Bungie putting obstacles in their own path here. My other BIG concern with this is even on their pre-order page if you look at the description for the expansion pass it details the expansions providing "new story missions, strikes, raids, and PVP content". It says absolutely nothing about new explorable locations, which is giving me serious concerns that they're about to repeat exactly the same damn mistakes as D1. 4 planets at launch, bugger all else for years.
I haven't followed the reveal much, so this thread confuses me. Is d2 a fully new sequel or an MMO style expansion? As in, do destiny 1 levels still exist in d2? And does everyone start with all new chars and on a blank slate?
I didn't think it played great, especially in pvp. And as you can tell, tons of people are disappointed by it not being 60 (especially in PVP).Destiny feels great to play even at 30fps. That's not a bizzare thing to say.
A game like Quake wouldn't be because its tempo requires the precision of 60+, but a game like Destiny? It plays fine. Would it be better with 60? Of course it would!
Destiny also has very consistent framepacing and good use of motion blur which make the 30fps experience feel better than a lot of other titles. If it has to be 30fps for whatever reason (and I would always call for 60fps as a standard), Destiny is a good example of how to make 30fps feel good to play.
Of course I'd prefer it to actually be 60, which is why I'll be playing it on PC long-term.
Yes. But to write off pretty much all and any criticism and not even entertain the idea that a game isn't looking all that hot despite a huge community of people, nonfans and fans alike not really feeling the game ... that is fanboyism, not just liking a game.¯_(ツ_/ ¯ Is it even possible people can be fans of a game, even with its flaws?
I didn't think it played great, especially in pvp. And as you can tell, tons of people are disappointed by it not being 60 (especially in PVP).
Of course Quake needs higher framerate even more than Destiny (I would argue 60 isn't fine for a game like Quake these days, I think it needs more).
But to write off criticism with a simple "its fine" is fanboyism.
I'm honestly surprised there isn't much of an uproar over how samey everything looks. Destiny 1 was a big let down compared to the initial expectations/promises, and the sequel just looks to tweak the formula. Bungie makes really great stuff, but it takes them FOREVER to produce content and I think this sequel should have been pushed out a few years.
Sad thing is, people will buy it in swarms, so the decision to release this year will be vindicated by those at Bungie/Activision who are more interested in chasing money at the expense of delivering a truly mind-blowing sequel, so...
Maybe I'm missing something here but this seems like a really silly complaint.
Just off the top of my head
A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics
4 entirely new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
LFG systems and Guilds
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
Improvements to how activities can be launched
Entirely new loot
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
+more I'm very likely missing
The idea that weve reach the the pinnacle of innovation and creativity, or at least are on the precipice of it, with Destiny of all games no less, is one of the most laughable things I have ever seen used to defend anything.
Also talk about strawman with your pokemon example.
The idea that weve reach the the pinnacle of innovation and creativity, or at least are on the precipice of it, with Destiny of all games no less, is one of the most laughable things I have ever seen used to defend anything.
Also talk about strawman with your pokemon example.
That, my friend, is a straw man fallacy.A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent
I didn't write off criticism with an "it's fine" I gave my opinion that it's fine, for me, in my opinion.
I can see how many wouldn't be happy, I get that.
It is odd to answer someones argument on a matter, with just a differing opinion, and state it as an argument. You could've just written "I think it plays fine at 30", but you wrote "it IS fine". Both the way you expressed yourself, and the fact that you answered and countered another poster, really doesn't make it seem like you "gave your opinion".
Also, I remember another post, where you said it is straight up rediculous to ask for more than 3 classes. Rediculous, really? You mean it's rediculous to ask for something that almost all other MMO/RPG style games add in sequels since the dawn of games? Yeh. Not a fanboy.
Right, because in my opinion Destiny is fine at 30fps. It would be better at 60, but it's fine at 30.
I really don't get your problem here.
I didn't ever say it was straight up ridiculous to ask for 3 classes. No, you're making things up now or you're very confused.
Rediculous to suggest otherwise, that choice of word.The choice to base Destiny around 3 classes is perfectly valid and it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. That's the game they're making and there's nothing wrong with that.
Well it wasn't clear, and I explained in great detail why.
That post:
Unsustainable reinventing the wheel....Like where in this thread did anyone call for reinventing the wheel, please show me. Asking for innovation is not asking for reinventing the wheel and calling that a model that is not sustainable is laughable. Again, point me to where all these posts are asking for destiny to become a totally different game. Because Most people haven't done that, theyve asked for more innovation.I'm actually really tired of hopping into random debates between people, but some of these posts are fairly aggressive and high-handed despite being pretty dumb.
The term "reinventing the wheel" doesn't even imply reaching a pinnacle of innovation or creativity. Nor did the person you are quoting say anything about a pinnacle so I'm kind of confused by how you got there on your own. Uber, I guess. Destiny has a large and dedicated fanbase even years after release. The idea that Bungie and Activision would rather cater to guaranteed numbers rather than chasing a whole new market doesn't seem too laughable.
Strawman -"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."
Comparing Pokemon, a series known for its relative lack of changes with Destiny 2 - a game where people have been confused and concerned by its seeming lack of changes relative to other sequels - doesn't seem very misrepresentative or unrelated to the argument at hand. User 1 asks where the innovation is, User 2 gives an example of a series that doesn't innovate in a traditional manner, and then User 3 comes in and throw around the logic fallacies they learned in high school. Which one of these is the odd one out...
Wait, did you just misconstrue accepting a series as iterative with me making do with Destiny as the "pinnacle of innovation" ?
In no way do I imply Destiny 2 as some pinnacle of innovation that will not be surpassed.
That, my friend, is a straw man fallacy.
Comparing two games series with iterative updates each sequel is what we call an "apt comparison."
It's obviously my opinion. I have no idea what you're doing here anymore...
And again, I didn't say asking for more than 3 classes is ridiculous.
You need to read that comment again.
Ok, you said exactly what you said. And that's what I would call a fanboy statement. So now you have two examples. Whatever though, this is off topic, but you asked for it so.
I don't understand why they didnt at least make a fourth class. It makes a ton of sense with pvp being 4vs4 in all modes now (something that i'm also a bit wary about) .
It is odd to answer someones argument on a matter, with just a differing opinion, and state it as an argument. You could've just written "I think it plays fine at 30", but you wrote "it IS fine". Both the way you expressed yourself, and the fact that you answered and countered another poster, really doesn't make it seem like you "gave your opinion".