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Civil War as a movie makes no sense

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Bleepey

Member
I was watching the movie and the more I thought about it the movie makes absolutely no sense and here's why:

The Avengers are blamed for what happened in Africa. This makes no sense. A suicide bomber explodes himself in a market with literally 100s of witnesses and video footage. Yet they are blamed for the actions of a traitor in the presence of witnesses who can corroborate it wasn't their fault. It would make more sense for the movie to have one lone survivor who can be bribed or coerced to say whatever they like and lay the evidence out to support any claim the villain wanted.

The Avengers are all in stealth mode being the only white people in Lagos, Nigeria and no one notices them because they are wearing the MCU stealth kit of baseball cap and glasses. Why not take the invulnerable, robot that can phase through walls that could contain bullets and explosions with them on this most stealth of stealth missions? Also, It's pronounced Lay-Gos not Lah-Gos. What is this shit?


Character motivations. Tony Stark wanting to be held to account for his actions makes sense. Sure some might say that him wanting to work under the govt is a complete departure to how he behaved in previous movies. Notably Iron Man 2 where he felt the govt should serve at the " pleasure of himself" according to what he said at IM2''s senate hearing. This is very similar to Cap's safest hands are still our own arrogant spiel. But I think this shows Tony Stark going through a character arc from film to film where he goes from a mass murdering teched out billionaire playboy philanthropist to one who slowly appreciates that actions have consequences. This is probably from the fact he learnt that just because he creates something it didn't mean he can control it as evidenced in Age of Ultron where he fell victim to his own hubris and had his Frankenstein's monster try to kill him 10s after its birth. I understood what he was going through because Frankenstein's monster turning on its creator is a trope as old as at least whenever the Modern Prometheus was published and if someone was to complain about why a scientist creating something that they think they can control turning on the creator would either be nitpicking or an idiot. Thankfully that criticism doesn't happen in modern comic book movies.

Cap on the other hand feels that the safest hands are still his own. Why? Because he's Captain fucking America. The A doesn't stand for France. He doesn't try to explore the framework of how the Sokovia accords might work or give it the time of day. Seriously instead he just looks mopey and says you should listen to me just because he shouldn't have to play buy anyone's rules. When people tell him to stand down he should pull a George Zimmerman and do what he likes even if it leads to adverse consequences. Funnily enough he could make compelling argument about how they were on the right side of history considering the Avengers stopped NYC being nuked, all of the Avengers are either govt sanctioned super spies, billionaires given high level govt clearance because the govt wants to play with his toys, deputised Avengers who were deputised by Shield agents, and senior military officials that were tasked to take down the Mandarin for PR purposes. The fact they were being lectured to by a disgraced alcoholic who felt the need to talk about accountability after he let diet Hulk run around NYC because he foolishly felt he could control him like other people with more balls than luck. But hey failing upwards into Secretary of State might explain why he thinks he is above being called out on his bullshit. That and Cap doesn't feel the need to defend himself with any of these decent rebuttal. He instead takes the anti govt position that Tony previously adopted because the movie needs to have conflict and a big playfight destroying property. Superman in the DCEU makes a better Captain America because he at least believes in elected officials, is humble enough to allow himself to be handcuffed to assuage people's fears and doesn't beat up and cripple people because he believes his notorious mass murder of a friend is innocent, is pensive about his actions even when he knows he is innocent and is willing to talk about his actions as a first course of action rather than dismiss people with conflicting viewpoints.

Also how fucking stupid is it he allowed himself to be caught off guard and stop fighting because Crossbones said his heterosexual life partner's name. It was so random, he had him dead to rights and with just a random mention of Bucky dude stops, freezes and allows himself to almost decorate the pavement with his guts. Did the music from broke back mountain play right after he said Bucky and he remembered the times they had?

Black panther. For Marvel's Batman he doesn't seem to be very logical. First of all he knows the building will blow up just because his Panther senses were tingling. He doesn't see the Winter Solidier but he still accuses him of the bombing. Why? Because some lady on the news says so. He doesn't do any detective work nothing, Just takes what the media says at face value. So much for the third smartest person in the Marvel universe. When he gets the chance to meet the Winter Soldier he doesn't even even try to talk about it. He just fights and refuses to listen to reason.

Zemo. His plan makes no sense. The film starts with him doing a global scavenger hunt for something he is not sure of. He just knows it's important because of the data dump by Black Widow but not why. It could be anything from what keeps Nick Fury's head free of razor bumps to how many superheroes Black Panther has done the dirty with. Why didn't she get Tony to decrypt it and not tell every Hydra agent or cell that the cats out of the bag! But I digress. Zemo's plan only works because the script writers say so. He is more fortunate than Longshot and his "plan" is solely predicated on luck not logic. Omniscience is his super power. He went on a scavenger hunt for fuck knows what that paid off just because, knew the Avengers would disagree amongst each other about a geopolitical issue because he's just that lucky. How about rather than just relying on luck he outsmarts them by playing an active role in the deception. Rather than doing a shit tonne of random bullshit just in the hope that they'd land at a random place at the same time just to show them a random video he didn't know existed till about 10 mins before they came that would make them act irrationally. It's only ok for Avengers to kill when brainwashed. In better movies you'd see said villain who played a puppet master who manipulates the protagonists, they'd actively playon the heroes strengths and weaknesses based on research. In said hypothetical movie oe character will be manipulated because he is a nice guy who doesn't like bullies and thinks even the worst of society shouldn't fall victim to extra judicial killings whilst the other character is manipulated by laying bread crumbs for him to follow and harjs the rep of his antagonist through many public acts whwther it's framing him for causing an international incident, making it seem like everywhere he goes bad shit happens. None of this I planned to tear the Avengers apart all along through just being lucky and showing a tape bullshit.

Spider-man. Yeah this is a gratuitous cameo. But Tony Stark talks a lot about accountibility yet he recruits a child not old enough to drive to fight Supersoldiers, assassins, all powerful robots, a witch, and a giant. Is he old enough to legally sign the Sokovia accords? I doubt it. One of those near invulnerable Iron Man suits might have provided more utility than a suit that's special abilities so far include not offering much protection when getting thrown about as evidenced by the black eye at the end. Couldn't have cooked up an Iron Man suit or something? Also regarding that playfight what sense does that make to recruit a child to take in Cap in a non fatal way but in the film the opposing teams are literally throwing cars and explosives at each other. I repeat throwing cars and fuel trucks at each other. Their actions are incongruous with their motives. Also can someone explain to me how the Vision attacking the Falcon makes sense?. The guy tries to give a "gentle " blast that would turn his near indestructible jet pack into a "glider"yet said blast penetrated an invulnerable super suit that a similar model previously survived and was recharged by bolts from Thor and took beatings from him too. For the sake of the plot War Machine's suit seems less durable so that the Avengers can realise how stupid fighting was at the end . If said blast hit the Falcon:

  • he'd die from taking such a huge bast because not all black men in the MCU are bulletproof.
  • If said blast his the jet pack, it wouldn't disable said jet pack and allow him to glide to earth. No, he'd freefall and he'd look Jackson Pollock painted a field with human remains.

The film is just an excuse to hear crappy jokes and a overly complicated plot that makes no sense where characters act out of character only cos the plot dictates so. Sad.
 

jrush64

Banned
This topic should go well.

However, I agree with some of your points, but I just didn't think much about it. I've only watched the movie once however and I enjoyed it quite well.
 

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
Spider-Man in an Iron Man suit. I can just imagine the rage from fans who think think Iron Man is already too present in the MCU. I guess I'd like to see it just for those reactions alone.
 

Deepwater

Member
The movie makes perfect sense once you realize Tony had to be the center of every scene that he's in and that Marvel Citizens are dumb as hell.

Both of these observations, happen to remain true even when you read the comic 'Civil War'
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
QqR7Sjx.jpg
 
I think the X-Men movies did a better job with the whole registration thing than the Avengers did.

And Stark leading the charge to register mutants is laughable. It just comes off as jealously, not fear, of actual mutants with natural powers.
 
super hero movies suck!

I've just grown sick of them over the past decade or so. I wish Hollywood would move on and try something new.
 
OP got me thinkin' Civil War is Primer

It really werid that the smartest people in the world couldn't just talk it out

That's what happens when one of them is being a stubborn prick even when the other one is constantly trying to compromise and handle things normally
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I'm not going to defend Civil War as Shakespeare, but your points about "these people going through serious trauma in their personal lives don't act 100% aloof and rational" makes me think you might just be a skin job and unable to process emotions.

I mean, when you get down to it "why don't these people talk about things" would solve 90% of the real world's problems, and yet... here we are.

(And personally I liked that, in a sort of inversion of the Loki stuff from the first Avengers, Zemo's plan mostly works just to factors outside of his control. He just added some more kindling to a fire that was gonna' burn at some point.)
 

firelogic

Member
What kind of a "Civil War" involves 10 people? Some of whom didn't even want to be there. And what kind of a war lasts all of 5 minutes? And what's up with losing the whole motivation for why this is happening after the first 10 minutes? They give you the reason why the government wants registration but then it just becomes Tony (REGISTER!!) vs Steve (I DON'T WANT TO!) and then Tony and friends vs Steve and friends. Then it becomes a revenge thing because of Bucky. I have no clue why it made a billion+.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Of course it was watered down for the MCU. The reason they broke up was kind of dumb, as was getting shit for the laughably low civilian deaths when they've saved the world.

It was still fun to watch though.
 

Kinyou

Member
What kind of a "Civil War" involves 10 people? Some of whom didn't even want to be there. And what kind of a war lasts all of 5 minutes? And what's up with losing the whole motivation for why this is happening after the first 10 minutes?
To be fair, that sounds like a very civilized war.
 

theWB27

Member
I think the X-Men movies did a better job with the whole registration thing than the Avengers did.

And Stark leading the charge to register mutants is laughable. It just comes off as jealously, not fear, of actual mutants with natural powers.

Who other than thor has natural powers?
 
What kind of a "Civil War" involves 10 people? Some of whom didn't even want to be there. And what kind of a war lasts all of 5 minutes? And what's up with losing the whole motivation for why this is happening after the first 10 minutes? They give you the reason why the government wants registration but then it just becomes Tony (REGISTER!!) vs Steve (I DON'T WANT TO!) and then Tony and friends vs Steve and friends. Then it becomes a revenge thing because of Bucky. I have no clue why it made a billion+.

If we're already devolving into analyzing the title of the film, then we've already lost the plot in this thread.

The thing I hated about the Age of Ultron was that it only lasted over two hours and not an age.
 
The point of the blame was because the Avengers intervened in the situation, not because they caused it. Additionally, a different set of innocent civilians died because of their intervention. This should be clear from watching the movie.

Stark feels responsible for Ultron, and wants to take accountability.

Cap wants to be a hero, and save people when he can, not just when the government allowed them. This concept exists in most superhero stories, as government officials are more limited in what they can do. Superheroes do whatever to save people. Cap trusts himself at least, and wants to be able to be there when government officials can't.

The idea was probably for one of them to catch Falcon when he fell.

Panther believing the news without extensive research was dumb, but he was grieving.

And no, Zeno's plan doesn't make any sense.
 

a916

Member
.

Most of them are very entertaining in the moment, but shallow if you take more than a moment's look at them. I've found little reason to watch many of them more than once.

Which is why I don't get how some people think Avengers is as good as The Dark Knight.
 
So says the guy who defends Suicide Squad and BvS like they are the second coming of Jesus.

Just accept the fact that humans are not a hive mind and everyone has different tastes.

I don't get this constant urge to force hive minds
 
If I made a thread about how Batman v Superman makes no sense, it would start and end on the fuckin' bats carrying that flop kid out of the well

And maybe Bruce's dad trying to give the robber a two piece and a biscuit
 

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Brokeback mountain reference? Really going for those old gay jokes.

oh yikes

Also how fucking stupid is it he allowed himself to be caught off guard and stop fighting because Crossbones said his heterosexual life partner's name. It was so random, he had him dead to rights and with just a random mention of Bucky dude stops, freezes and allows himself to almost decorate the pavement with his guts. Did the music from broke back mountain play right after he said Bucky and he remembered the times they had?
 

The Kree

Banned
This is Bleepey's petty attempt at retaliation for this forum's constant panning of his favorite shitty Batman movie, Batman v Superman.

I'm not mad about it though. Do you, boo boo.
 

Finaj

Member
Throughout super hero stories that have been made in comics, movies, etc., the concept of a "hero vs hero war" has always been extremely contrived to me.

Captain America: Civil War has some flaws, but it is by far the most competently made "hero vs hero" story in any medium (IMO).
 
The Avengers are blamed for what happened in Africa. This makes no sense.

I mean, yeah. It wasn't fair they were blamed for it. The media can be unfair alot of the time. Spiderman gets blamed for shit in the paper all the time. Doesn't matter if it makes sense. This seemed incredibly realistic, honestly.
 
The movie isn't bad. It's just simple. The dialogue is generic. The story isn't anything to write about. It serves, like all MCU movies, to get you to a to b with little resistance as possible so you're left with a forgettable movie.
 
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