Support NeoGAF

[FreezerGeezer]

Chris did quit the industry - he went off to produce films. Before Star Citizen he hadn't worked in video games for almost 10 years. Goodness knows why he decided to make a comeback...

Depends who you want to believe.
Seems to either be because he wanted to have a chance at creating the game of his dreams or it is an elaborate scheme to line his pockets and run away with their money.

Does not seem to be any middle ground haha.

Than you for your major contribution.

I should really be thanking you.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I know dev times. A project like SC simply shouldn't be a crowdfunded game. That's just not the good model when budgets are huge.

How the hell would you know this. It's only been three to four years. Of full production.

and

Now actual read the Kotaku article and understand. Why you are so wrong.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen

Stop ignoring it. Because you're acting like a bot and not a reasonable person.

 

[Krisprolls]

Depends who you want to believe.

Seems to either be because he wanted to have a chance at creating the game of his dreams or it is an elaborate scheme to line his pockets and run away with their money.

Does not seem to be any middle ground haha.

Maybe it was both.

 

[DJwest]

So when is the campaign supposed to come out?

 

[FreezerGeezer]

So when is the campaign supposed to come out?

Their last date was end 2017. However I'd be more comfortable saying 2018.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

I know dev times. A project like SC simply shouldn't be a crowdfunded game. That's just not the good model when budgets are huge.

I'm not entirely sure you do considering you claimed that this has been in development for 8 years.

 

[Cabbagehead]

So when is the campaign supposed to come out?

SQ42 chapter 1 is maybe this year or next year, 3.0 release will most likely determine. That 42's lanuch. To me at least given how many mechanics they share .

Depends who you want to believe.
Seems to either be because he wanted to have a chance at creating the game of his dreams or it is an elaborate scheme to line his pockets and run away with their money.

Does not seem to be any middle ground haha.


I should really be thanking you.

That second one is ridiculously. Do people not understand that CR is rich? he sold two companies and some of his ip's. Still has some rights to others. I believe.

 

[Krisprolls]

I'm not entirely sure you do considering you claimed that this has been in development for 8 years.

Not this again... Ok I get it, it's not 8 for SC, even if it's 5 my point still stands. It's too long playing with backers money.

 

[Shy]

I suspect they really try to release Shenmue 3 so it's another difference.

Please provide proof for the assertion that CIG has no intention of releasing SC&SQ42.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Not this again... Ok I get it, it's not 8 for SC, even if it's 5 my point still stands. It's too long playing with backers money.

How the hell would you know this? how are they playing with backers money? they are making the freaking game, 400 people are playing with money? lmao set up a studio visit and say that to those developers faces.

If people are willing to pay then it's all on them.

Exactly and that's the point YOU get but he doesn't get at all. The decision of other's shouldn't matter to him. He's not going to save them or enlighten them with Derek Smarts jealously, of high conspiracy theories. Along with his urge to dox families and developer

Please provide proof for the assertion that CIG has no intention of releasing SC&SQ42.

Let me help you.

He's going to say "Because they keep selling ships and missing date estimations" every though everyone in the community understands that. If CIG is upfront about it and they have been more times then not.

 

[Shy]

Let me help you.

He's going to say "Because they keep selling ships and missing date estimations" every though everyone in the community understands that. If CIG is upfront about it and they have been more times then not.

Ahh. So he's talking a load of old bollocks, and has no facts to back up anything he's been saying. Gotcha.

 

[Chumley]

If people are willing to pay then it's all on them.

This is a gross, sleazy defense usually reserved for ethically bankrupt casino bosses.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yea it's almost like this is a crowdfunded project or something.

Well, far be it from me to tell people what to do with their money. If they're pleased with the investment they've made, and what they've seen for that investment, then, hey, good for all involved. Maybe it's hard for me as someone who doesn't have any commitment, financial or otherwise, to the project to recognize the value to people who do.

 

[Machina]

This is a gross, sleazy defense usually reserved for ethically bankrupt casino bosses.

And yet casinos aren't illegal

 

[Cave Johnson]

Not this again... Ok I get it, it's not 8 for SC, even if it's 5 my point still stands. It's too long playing with backers money.

Then there should be a limit for every Kickstarter that prohibits funding that exceeds the needs for a 2 year development period.

Otherwise you are suggesting they develop with 1/10th of the crowdfunded money and keep the rest as winnings because there's no way you're gonna keep that mass influx of cash for development are you?

 

[Micael]

This is a gross, sleazy defense usually reserved for ethically bankrupt casino bosses.

When we are talking about development times, why shouldn't it be? If someone is ok with waiting for X years for a game to come out all the while having given them the money, why is it wrong?
It is one thing when the game fails to deliver on the dates promised, which star citizen did, at which point I feel like you need to offer refunds, something that star citizen was shitty about honestly, but it really is up to the people to decide how long they are willing to wait for a product.

 

[Chumley]

And yet casinos aren't illegal

A lot of objectively abhorrent business practices aren't illegal. Debating legality is the last possible bastion of defense when you have no moral or ethical leg to stand on. Not a good look.

 

[Cabbagehead]

This is a gross, sleazy defense usually reserved for ethically bankrupt casino bosses.

You can't be fucking serious?

These are grow up's and they made their OWN decisions. They are not be deceived, they aren't being hoodwinked. The TOS literally spells everything out for them, the kick starter back did aswell.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Not this again... Ok I get it, it's not 8 for SC, even if it's 5 my point still stands. It's too long playing with backers money.

What's basically "The time it usually takes to make a game is too long to make this game" is an absurd thing to say regardless of where the money comes from. It's not as if it being crowdfunded means the game won't take as long to develop as other games, it being crowdfunded doesn't mean the typical development time won't apply to it.

 

[Machina]

A lot of objectively abhorrent business practices aren't illegal. Debating legality is the last possible bastion of defense when you have no moral or ethical leg to stand on. Not a good look.

You're straying into opinionated rot here and it does you no credit

 

[Cabbagehead]

Then there should be a limit for every Kickstarter that prohibits funding that exceeds the needs for a 2 year development period.

Otherwise you are suggesting they develop with 1/10th of the crowdfunded money and keep the rest as winnings because there's no way you're gonna keep that mass influx of cash for development are you?

The game stop being kick-started beyond 2012. It was then crowdfunded by CIG on their own site. Once they got it to handle pledges.

What's basically "The time it usually takes to make a game is too long to make this game" is an absurd thing to say regardless of where the money comes from. It's not as if it being crowdfunded means the game won't take as long to develop as other games, it being crowdfunded doesn't mean the typical development time won't apply to it.

Yeah i have no idea what realm of mental gymnastics he's playing in at this point.

 

[Chumley]

You're straying into opinionated rot here and it does you no credit

And you're straying into full blown delusion if you don't think the SC business model of selling $1k virtual ships to whales isn't looked at with utter derision by everyone outside of the SC fan bubble.

 

[Cabbagehead]

And you're straying into full blown delusion if you don't think the SC business model of selling $1k virtual ships to whales isn't looked at with utter derision by everyone outside of the SC fan bubble.

See there it is again. You don't get to chose what people use their money for. Those "whales" don't have to pay for shit. But they want the game to have the funds, so the game can be made. Along with having something that is their to own. Virtual ship or not. You're acting like their hobby in regards to their spending habits, is killing someone or causing someone harm. When all it is, is hubris.

 

[MUnited83]

And you're straying into full blown delusion if you don't think the SC business model of selling $1k virtual ships to whales isn't looked at with utter derision by everyone outside of the SC fan bubble.

I'm not a SC fan yet I don't see the issue. Do you throw a shitfit at every kickstarter with high tiers too?

 

[Cabbagehead]

I'm not a SC fan yet I don't see the issue. Do you throw a shitfit at every kickstarter with high tiers too?

Watch him back hand.

 

[Spukc]

wow both fans and haters of the franchise are equally shit again amazing !

 

[Chumley]

I'm not a SC fan yet I don't see the issue. Do you throw a shitfit at every kickstarter with high tiers too?

High tiers are transparently pathetic, and absolving yourself of compassion or moral responsibility with "it's their money" is the same shit rich people say about anyone who's addicted to gambling or makes bad financial decisions in general. Trading empathy and humanity for corporate interests is all I'm seeing here, same goes for blind boxes. They're marketing an idea remarkably well, but the people buying into the idea might not necessarily be in a position where they should be buying into it.

 

[Cabbagehead]

wow both fans and haters of the franchise are equally shit again amazing !

Thanks for adding nothing.

Both sides are not the same in anyway. Stop instigating.

High tiers are transparently pathetic, and absolving yourself of compassion or moral responsibility with "it's their money" is the same shit rich people say about anyone who's addicted to gambling or makes bad financial decisions in general. Trading empathy and humanity for corporate interests is all I'm seeing here, same goes for blind boxes.

Oh look another wannabe savior and crusader against the establishment, even when CIG is under no publisher. What do you think CIG does with the money that those "whales" (who are by the way, not the majority) give them? note; i don't want an opinion. I want facts and cited evidence.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Not this again... Ok I get it, it's not 8 for SC, even if it's 5 my point still stands. It's too long playing with backers money.

Says who? I bought in during the Kickstarter and I certainly don't mind and I understand it takes a while to staff up multiple studios for a project that has made over 300x more than the requested Kickstarter funding.

 

[Spukc]

Thanks for adding nothing.

Both sides are not the same in anyway. Stop instigating.



Who look another savior. What do you think CIG does with the money that those "whales" give them?

if you even talk about whales you are feeding chat tbh ..
also that snark you gave me was not cool and uncalled for

 

[MUnited83]

High tiers are transparently pathetic, and absolving yourself of compassion or moral responsibility with "it's their money" is the same shit rich people say about anyone who's addicted to gambling or makes bad financial decisions in general. Trading empathy and humanity for corporate interests is all I'm seeing here, same goes for blind boxes. They're marketing an idea remarkably well, but the people buying into the idea might not necessarily be in a position where they should be buying into it.

I always find hilarious someone claiming to have "compassion" "empathy" and "humanity" while implying all the people willing to contribute and pay for something they want and like are brainwashed sheep that must be saved by your morally superior self. Those people after all have absolutely no free will and they are all being abused, waiting for the white knight in shiny armor to stop this torture.
That is what is motherfucking gross.

Thanks for adding nothing.

Both sides are not the same in anyway. Stop instigating.

Don't engage, that's the same dude that kept on throwing drive-by shitposts on the GTA Vice mods thread.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Don't engage, that's the same dude that kept on throwing drive-by shitposts on the GTA Vice mods thread.

Gotcha

 

[Cave Johnson]

And you're straying into full blown delusion if you don't think the SC business model of selling $1k virtual ships to whales isn't looked at with utter derision by everyone outside of the SC fan bubble.

Or you could be like me and spend $500 for this:

But fuck me right? Clearly I was duped into dropping $500 into figurines that cost less than a hundredth of the cost.

I dropped 500 for the development irrespective if there are virtual rewards or physical ones. I want the game to be made, who are you to decide and claim that disgusting and misused term when it is a simple matter of investing into the game's capital?

 

[joe_zazen]

And you're straying into full blown delusion if you don't think the SC business model of selling $1k virtual ships to whales isn't looked at with utter derision by everyone outside of the SC fan bubble.

have to agree with you, unless they are all being bought by Shaquille O'Neal types.

 

[Lothars]

It's two sides of the same coin. People who are literally financially invested in seeing the game succeed will hand wave away every single delay or cause for concern as "the game is so ambitious, of course this will happen" until the end of time.

Which is not most people are doing but it's okay for the posters that want the game to fail to constantly mention it is a scam?

from everything I've seen on your posts you are not interested in any discussion but yelling down at anyone saying the game is not a scam.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Or you could be like me and spend $500 for this:

But fuck me right? Clearly I was duped into dropping $500 into figurines that cost less than a hundredth of the cost.

I dropped 500 for the development irrespective if there are virtual rewards or physical ones. I want the game to be made, who are you to decide and claim that disgusting and misused term when it is a simple matter of investing into the game's capital?

He wants to dictate how you spend many and that CIG is bamboozling you.

 

[bitbydeath]

This is a gross, sleazy defense usually reserved for ethically bankrupt casino bosses.

It's also true, you can't tell strangers what they should or shouldn't be spending their money on. People waste their money on all sorts of things.

 

[joe_zazen]

High tiers are transparently pathetic, and absolving yourself of compassion or moral responsibility with "it's their money" is the same shit rich people say about anyone who's addicted to gambling or makes bad financial decisions in general. Trading empathy and humanity for corporate interests is all I'm seeing here, same goes for blind boxes. They're marketing an idea remarkably well, but the people buying into the idea might not necessarily be in a position where they should be buying into it.

I think you are too smart for gaf.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I think you are too smart for gaf.

 

[joe_zazen]

Looking at it from a debate and rhetoric standpoint, he/she is killing it. I wish there was someone on the otherside of similar talent so we could have some back and forth.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Looking at it from a debate and rhetoric standpoint, he/she is killing it. I wish there was someone on the otherside of similar talent so we could have some back and forth.

His debate and rhetoric is tone deaf to the actual situation. Hes conflating two ideologies and standpoints that have no real relation to each other. Other then backers giving money to CIG to make a video game. He just doesn't like that fact alone and thinks CIG is taking advantage of those poor "whales" -who to him at least- have no clue. The fluffy words in-between don't mean jack.

 

[Outrun]

See there it is again. You don't get to chose what people use their money for. Those "whales" don't have to pay for shit. But they want the game to have the funds, so the game can be made. Along with having something that is their to own. Virtual ship or not. You're acting like their hobby in regards to their spending habits, is killing someone or causing someone harm. When all it is, is hubris.

I had lost faith in CIG because they have constantly missed deadlines that they themselves have set.

That said, anyone that wants to spend money on this project does so with their own volition.

If it makes them happy, then good for them

 

[inky]

Looking at it from a debate and rhetoric standpoint, he/she is killing it. I wish there was someone on the otherside of similar talent so we could have some back and forth.

Yeah, I mean if you are impressed by rhetoric rather than facts and logic I can understand why you think like that. As long as it's pretty bullshit you'll eat it by the bowlful. Seen a lot of that around here.

Tell me this: how is he in a position to know who is buying into those high cost tiers and what exactly is their purchasing power to state with certainty they are being taken advantage of? Why is he so morally superior to ascertain that those people are not in fact making an informed decision and spending well within their means? There's a clear difference between a pledge (the backbone of every crowdfunding project) and casino like systems in plenty of other games that actually target repeated, compulsive behavior by offering random payouts. Above all, there is the understanding that the studio is indeed making an effort to deliver on the promised vision by using the money to fund 100% of the development of the game, which those quick to cry "scam" are prone to ignore.

If the vision of the game is flawed, if there is a risk of failure, if the project is not going as planned, if things are being mismanaged, there is more than enough room to argue every single one of those things, but that is not what is happening in this thread. The poster you are talking about came in here spouting nonsense about "2 sides of the same coin" to talk about people in the defensive about the project, and people crying it is a scam and pulling false accusations out their ass. Then he ran away when confronted, only to return with the most ludicrous, asinine fake concern for the well being of the backers he initially insulted in this thread. Pretty much proof that he isn't arguing in earnest or isn't concerned at all about anyone. People who talk about compassion and empathy are not also the first to call out and talk down to victims of a supposed scam. Those are called hypocrites.

 

[Cipherr]

I love how like every 8 or so months I see something about this game somewhere on this forum. And I like... scan the thread to see if there was ever a launch date. Like damn.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

Once again, very few people want "this game to fail". It makes no sense.

They're not on a crusade against you or the Chris Robert cultists. Nobody hates you.

They just don't like this new wave of crooks / scams / microtransactions / never released games. It kills gaming.

Make a game, if it's good, we'll pay and we'll play. But fulfill your promises, don't make us wait 10 years with our money, control your budget, don't go too far on microtransactions and it will be ok ($1 is ok, $18000 is kinda too far).

SC crossed every red line, it's no wonder people are worried or angry.

It's not against you, you know.

I have absolutely no skin in this game. I have not paid towards any of the kickstarters or post kickstarter fund raising schemes and yet you jump to the immediate conclusion that I am some "cultist" who is looking to defend the game from any criticism when I stated the very opposite in my post. All you are doing is proving the content of my post true and you don't even seem to understand that. I chose not to buy in early to support the game instead will buy it whenver the final product is released for purchase. That was my decision and it is the same decision anyone else could also make. The fact that some choose to buy in early and pay money towards something they want before its finished is frankly none of your concern. It is their money and they can do with it whatever they want to just as you can do whatever you want with yours.

 

[Micael]

Looking at it from a debate and rhetoric standpoint, he/she is killing it. I wish there was someone on the otherside of similar talent so we could have some back and forth.

That is a nice way of looking at it, personally what I saw was someone enter a debate with a false equivalency by no less quoting someone that was answering something regarding development times, not the sale of space ships.

You don't gain points by entering a different discussion.

Also using morals is an highly flimsy defense, since morals are pretty relative, certainly in topics like micro transactions.

If he wanted to debate the way star citizen has been running the crowdfunding there are far better ways of doing it, like arguing that selling ships is at best a pre-order, at worse selling in game power which will affect negatively the experience of those paying less, or pointing out their bad practice of backing out on their refund policy, despite at this point doing something quite differently from what they initially sold in a kickstarter.

There are so many points of genuine debate over star citizen, that there is really no reason to be using such methods.

 

[Sir Abacus]

The last time I trusted Chris Roberts:

I mean it wasn't a bad game but a few of us have been around the block and know his MO. Without a big publisher breathing down his neck he doesn't get shit out the door in a timely manner. Hell, with Freelancer he didn't. They had to fire him, cut half the grandiose shit that was too complicated, and then get it out the door.

 

[Cabbagehead]

The last time I trusted Chris Roberts:

I mean it wasn't a bad game but a few of us have been around the block and know his MO. Without a big publisher breathing down his neck he doesn't get shit out the door in a timely manner. Hell, with Freelancer he didn't. They had to fire him, cut half the grandiose shit that was too complicated, and then get it out the door.

Okay and? It's not just him working on the game. His brother is there to rein him in. Hence why this story exist.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen

 

[FloatingDivider]

The whitest studio you know.

 

[Cabbagehead]

The whitest studio you know.

Batter up read all about it...