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[Forerunner]

A consequence of a design turning more and more sexualized feminine overtime

....at least they didn't add boob physics in that game like in Halo 3.

At least in H5 they decided to dial it back a bit.

 

[cabelhigh]

If anyone dismisses the art argument because of negative examples while ignoring all the positive ones I think that discussion is hopeless anyway.

What? You're saying that anyone who focuses on the negative parts of pieces of art that you think are important are inherently wrong and that discussing anything regarding it with them is 'hopeless'? So let's say you're a film major and came across someone who dislikes one of the most famous movies of all time, Birth of a Nation (the OG 1915 one), widely regarded as a landmark in American cinema, because it features abhorrent racial views that support the KKK and feature white men in blackface, you would see a discussion with them on the merits of the movie 'hopeless' because they focus on the negative aspects of the movie and not the positive? How is that productive?

 

[Toxi]

Nah there's some pretty gross stuff.

This just looks bad. Trying to make full plate armor pose like a playboy cover just looks ridiculous, and the skewed proportions don't work here like they do in other art of the game.

 

[Turin]

What the fuck is that.

Is that from FF9?

Yep.

No seriously, I think this wins.

Everyone's bleaching their brain after this thread.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm with you. 2B and the other characters look stupid as fuck. Like I'm a badass robot soldier and I look like a ballerina*? Fuck off.

* Actually a ballerina would probably be more practically dressed and look more badas too, so I take it back

It's Gothic Lolita, and it's weird and sexy, which is kind of the point. The game evokes a very specific aesthetic for the YoRHa units, that definitely works in practice. Practically is pretty much irrelevant.

The normal androids look like this:

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Spoiler

Actually, I love this character. Glad to hear her voice actress in Persona 5. Best girl.

 

[Shredderi]

No seriously, I think this wins.

Jesus christ I never actually really saw this picture as a kid. What the fuck?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Every single time somebody mentions Nier Automata I die inside.

Sexy doesn't mean it's a bad design,

You're right, context matters, and the context is that a ton of character designs for women are of women who look completely out of place next to their male counterparts while simultaneously perpetuating harmful stereotypes and alienating half the audience.

just like ugly doesn't mean it's bad. It depends. I personally like sexy designs, much more likely to play a game honestly. Blah blah disrespectful to women, have you seen how young girls these days dress?

I tend not to look at young girls....

I don't care if it's male or female

Yes you do, because you're intentionally ignoring the context of why people have issues with these character designs.

sexy designs don't automatically make something bad.

It does when it perpetuates harmful stereotypes in the same way that portraying minorities as drug dealers too often is harmful.

Who fucking cares, it's a video game.

Thanks for making sure that people don't take this medium and thus you, seriously.

I personally love that Japan doesn't give a fuck about political correctness. PC ruins shit.

Ah yes, that age old asian fetishism that is a really really bad part of the gaming community.

 

[cabelhigh]

What I’m saying is that the way REAL HUMAN GIRLS dress these days (not all of them of course, I’m not going to generalize like some people) is more of a worry and more disrespectful then a fucking video game character in a video game that is already fantasy.

Alright guy I'mma say maybe let the women themselves decide what is and isn't disrespectful?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't get this? I think Lara's design is really great. I think people are confusing character design and character, and even then it's a hard argument there.

The big issue with modern Lara is that there's nothing particularly unique about her now. Even ignoring her personality, her visual design is no longer unique. And I think that was illustrates this most is that whenever Square/CD puts a Lara costume into another game, it's basically never the one that came with the reboot. Instead it's the classic Lara design.

I wouldn't say her new design is bad...but it's certainly "UBIconic" compared to the original.

 

[Kinyou]

What? You're saying that anyone who focuses on the negative parts of pieces of art that you think are important are inherently wrong and that discussing anything regarding it with them is 'hopeless'? So let's say you're a film major and came across someone who dislikes one of the most famous movies of all time, Birth of a Nation (the OG 1915 one), widely regarded as a landmark in American cinema, because it features abhorrent racial views that support the KKK and feature white men in blackface, you would see a discussion with them on the merits of the movie 'hopeless' because they focus on the negative aspects of the movie and not the positive? How is that productive?

We're talking about the whole medium itself, not a singular movie, thats my point. If you dismiss the entire medium of movie because of one example I find that discussion to be hopeless.

 

[SoldnerKei]

this

even if WW came out when I was an edgy darks teenager and now I can appreciate the artistic simplicity of the game, I still don't like this design at all.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

At least in H5 they decided to dial it back a bit.

H5 is the best Cortana design to me, even if it’s the worst Halo game.

I like the almost ME armor look to her design, the older designs are good but very early 2000s

 

[Toxi]

The thing about "iconic" is that it has less to do with how good a design is and more to do with how much it appears in popular media.

 

[Opa-Pa]

this

even if WW came out when I was an edgy darks teenager and now I can appreciate the artistic simplicity of the game, I still don't like this design at all.

She's white now though! You're all supposed to love her.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The hookers from nier automata

You have a version with hookers in it?

 

[cakely]

There are some good here that makes nominating Quiet a bit lazy. We can do better:

Ok, you "won" the thread.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Damn that's awful lol.

I'm pretty sure her introduction is literally a close up of her ass....

At least in H5 they decided to dial it back a bit.

True. We should always note when devs try to do better.

 

[LordKasual]

Lucky Chloe from Tekken 7 maybe?

Nope, this is the best design in T7

Because Harada confirmed that Lucky Chloe isn't even from Japan, she's just obsessed with Idol culture

She's a weeaboo

 

[Firenze1]

Thrash tier.

 

[cabelhigh]

We're talking about the whole medium itself, not a singular movie, thats my point. If you dismiss the entire medium of movie because of one example I find that discussion to be hopeless.

Ooooh ok. In my mind, I'm imagining trying to sell my dad or my partner on video games; if they sit in on an MGS 5 session and are really engaged by the open-world mechanics and creativity on display, but are turned off by constant sophomoric attempts to get me to peer down shirts and chase upskirts, I think that makes video games look really really bad. All of that gameplay goodwill can be dispelled in an instant by constant butt shots.

And to finish my thoughts on the Transformers analogy: everyone knows the Transformers movies are for teenage boys, but we also know that they're not the pinnacle of the medium. When we hold games like MGS 5 up as a pinnacle and yet still it can't escape its gross objectification, I think that's a real problem.

 

[Kinyou]

At least in H5 they decided to dial it back a bit.

I found the Halo 5 design to be really boring. It's neither normal outfit nor like the old ones. Doesn't help that she only appears in a cgi cutscene so she feels even more detached from the actual game

 

[Morrigan Stark]

How is one post so insanely wrong? like my mind can't comprehend just what's being said here.

Probably because your mind is capable of understanding the notion of women being more than decoration. ^^

It's Gothic Lolita, and it's weird and sexy, which is kind of the point. The game evokes a very specific aesthetic for the YoRHa units, that definitely works in practice. Practically is pretty much irrelevant.

The normal androids look like this:

Yeah gothic lolita is terribad in every way. That other artwork is so much better, shame that's not the main art style.

 

[JackelZXA]

I'm with you. 2B and the other characters look stupid as fuck. Like I'm a badass robot soldier and I look like a ballerina*? Fuck off.

Major Nier spoilers:

Spoiler

They dress like that because they think that's how humans are supposed to look. You see it all over the machines as well. Random articles of clothing because "This is what a MOTHER looks like and this is what a SON looks like". They're supposed to be vapid and meaningless because their existence is just as much of a farce as the stupid marine that puts on a dress and makeup because it thinks that's what it's supposed to do if it's a woman.

You get an armor outfit later in the game when you do an actual "Soldier operation"

She's a special agent, but she's wearing skin-tight lingerie. It's dumb. Just because there's no skin shown doesn't mean it's not gratuitously sexualized.

It's not sexualized at all what are you talking about? It's just an MGS style sneaking suit design. I completely disagree. I don't see what you're saying in it at all. It just looks like a cool stealth outfit.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Thrash tier.

My God....

 

[Roufianos]

Quiet. Unbelievable that probably the only compelling story line in the game went on a character who's appearance made her impossible to take seriously. Absolute shite.

 

[luulubuu]

It's Gothic Lolita, and it's weird and sexy, which is kind of the point. The game evokes a very specific aesthetic for the YoRHa units, that definitely works in practice. Practically is pretty much irrelevant.

The normal androids look like this:

Now is when you all should get that the vision of an artist doesn't make it less harmful or bad. It can have ALL the motives behind to be this way, but in the end, is still sexist.

 

[eso76]

I so knew this would have Quiet in the OP.

There's much, much, much, much, worse though.

 

[Kinsei]

What I’m saying is that the way REAL HUMAN GIRLS dress these days (not all of them of course, I’m not going to generalize like some people) is more of a worry and more disrespectful then a fucking video game character in a video game that is already fantasy.

I know exactly what you meant. My gif reply still stands.

 

[Akronis]

What I’m saying is that the way REAL HUMAN GIRLS dress these days (not all of them of course, I’m not going to generalize like some people) is more of a worry and more disrespectful then a fucking video game character in a video game that is already fantasy.

I’m not offended by fucking Ryu being a buff sexy motherfucker, it all goes back to sexy design does not mean a bad design.

Girls can be sexy as hell and there is nothing wrong with that, they can also be “homely” or less sexy in the normal sense of the word and that’s fine. Guys don’t have to be buff and manly to be attractive either.

Sexy doesn’t make a character good or bad, as generally the character isn’t defined by their design. Quiet is a bad character because she’s a bad character, who cares that she is wearing a bikini. I feel like I’m in a Polygon article comment section.


I’m not going full fucking anything.

There are tons of good Western designs and shit Western designs, just like there are plenty of shit Eastern designs along with the good. Plenty have been posted here in this same thread.

What I’m saying is that people like to dismiss sexy designs as bad because they are sexy.

Why should we be worried about how people dress in real life, exactly?

 

[yanipheonu]

It isn't just the usual anime Otaku pander. It isn't just the stripperiffic outfit.

It's the little bulge on skin under the string on the hip that makes it that much more skeevy. :/ Gotta make sure we know it's really tight.

 

[LordKasual]

I so knew this would have Quiet in the OP.

There's much, much, much, much, worse though.

Seriously people

Quiet isn't even notable in the scheme of bad shit from Japan

I'd take Quiet over the sea of bad created characters you'd get from simply walking into a lobby on a game like PSO2

 

[Forerunner]

H5 is the best Cortana design to me, even if it’s the worst Halo game.

I like the almost ME armor look to her design, the older designs are good but very early 2000s

H2A Cortana is probably my favorite. Blur did an excellent job with the cutscenes.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Now is when you all should get that the vision of an artist doesn't make it less harmful or bad. It can have ALL the motives behind to be this way, but in the end, is still sexist.

Especially when said artists basically admit to the design being an amalgamation of the their fetishes.

 

[luulubuu]

The protagonist of the new The Witch and The Hundred Knight is... I don't know

 

[How About No]

Major Nier spoilers:

You get an armor outfit later in the game when you do an actual "Soldier operation"

And even that still has the hosery visible lol

Not disparaging Automata's designs tho cuz they're fukken great

SHITTY PRECOG EDIT

I have not meant to disrespect any females in this thread but my point still stands that designs aren't automatically bad if they are sexy. I apologize if I have offended any females.

im dying

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I have not meant to disrespect any females in this thread but my point still stands that designs aren’t automatically bad if they are sexy. I apologize if I have offended any females.

Alright guy I'mma say maybe let the women themselves decide what is and isn't disrespectful?

Yes then let’s let women complain and not men. Women don’t need SJWs to defend them, they have equal rights, they can defend themselves.

If people are going to complain about sex and fetishized designs why do people only bring up females? Why not bring up males? I know there are a lot more female designs that fall that direction but still.

People can call me biased all they want but the majority of the conversation is biased from the other side as well.

Video games are for entertainment, let people be entertained by what they like to be entertained by.

I’m out either way, This thread has turned into more arguing then designs anyway.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Especially when said artists basically admit to the design being an amalgamation of the their fetishes.

And said creator os also known for trolling in interviews.

I mean you're free to think that way but I've seen plenty of female fans love the female characters of the game.

 

[Blitzrules240]

Yep.

 

[LotusHD]

Now is when you all should get that the vision of an artist doesn't make it less harmful or bad. It can have ALL the motives behind to be this way, but in the end, is still sexist.

Terrible/Ridiculous design is completely fine to say, but eh, sexist?

 

[Crossing Eden]

And said creator os also known for trolling in interviews.

I see nothing about 2B's design that contradicts that statement.

 

[zoukka]

Nah there's some pretty gross stuff.

? Seems to be in line with all the other designs. Sure the pose if deliberate, but so are all the other poses in the game! Even in the middle of combos.

I tend not to look at young girls....

...wat. Do you purposely look at the sky or the pavement every time kids walk by you?

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeah gothic lolita is terribad in every way. That other artwork is so much better, shame that's not the main art style.

When I first saw the designs, I thought they pretty terrible too, but I came around to them eventually. Gothic lolita definitely has its own appeal, though I realize everyone has their own sensibilities, so it might fall flat on its face. That said, while the other artwork works wonders for NPCs, I don't think it would have suited the main characters. Nowhere near as memorable or standout.

Like this from the stage play:

They look completely ridiculous, but it wouldn't be Nier if they were just wearing standard equipment.

Now is when you all should get that the vision of an artist doesn't make it less harmful or bad. It can have ALL the motives behind to be this way, but in the end, is still sexist.

Craft is a thing (re: Fanservice) and I don't consider the Nier: Automata designs to be particularly sexist.

 

[Alucrid]

Major Nier spoilers:

Spoiler

They dress like that because they think that's how humans are supposed to look. You see it all over the machines as well. Random articles of clothing because "This is what a MOTHER looks like and this is what a SON looks like". They're supposed to be vapid and meaningless because their existence is just as much of a farce as the stupid marine that puts on a dress and makeup because it thinks that's what it's supposed to do if it's a woman.

You get an armor outfit later in the game when you do an actual "Soldier operation"





It's not sexualized at all what are you talking about? It's just an MGS style sneaking suit design. I completely disagree. I don't see what you're saying in it at all. It just looks like a cool stealth outfit.

like what you like but come on. you can't say that the heavy armor is super serious soldier armor with a straight face

 

[wwm0nkey]

That one girl in Valkirya Revolution

 

[JusDoIt]

Thrash tier.

It's the worst. It's tacky decision on top of tacky decision. I try not to be too shallow, but I was so aesthetically turned off by the game in the demo that I never gave the final release a shot.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Now is when you all should get that the vision of an artist doesn't make it less harmful or bad. It can have ALL the motives behind to be this way, but in the end, is still sexist.

Sexist? Really?

Especially when said artists basically admit to the design being an amalgamation of the their fetishes.

Nothing's wrong with that. lol

 

[Innolis]

I know jack-shit about actual graphic design so...what are, exactly, the standards by which we are judging here?

Is it "design" in the academic sense?, practical sense? or is it how offensive it is to women?

This is bad design IMO:

Not particularly because of the tits or cleavage, but because the design doesn't feel harmonious. The color's don't seem to match either and the whole thing looks off..

This actually looks like good design to me:

It's clear the character was designed to be appealing to men and be overtly sexy and the outfit reflects that 100%. I'm not sure if whether it is offensive or not is part of the discussion. Unless the thread is really about how women are not properly represented and overly sexualized in games.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Sexist? Really?


Nothing's wrong with that. lol

Yes, I do find something wrong with designing the main character in your game as an object of desire first and foremost, in fact, that's why this thread even has to exist in the first place, to name many examples of that happening.

I know jack-shit about actual graphic design so...what are, exactly, the standards by which we are judging here?

Is it "design" in the academic sense?, practical sense? or is it how offensive it is to women?

This is bad design IMO:

Not particularly because of the tits or cleavage, but because the design doesn't feel harmonious. The color's don't seem to match either and the whole thing looks off..

This actually looks like good design to me:

It's clear the character was designed to be appealing to men and be overtly sexy and the outfit reflects that 100%. I'm not sure if whether it is offensive or not is part of the discussion. Unless the thread is really about how women are not properly represented and overly sexualized in games.

That design doesn't tell me anything about the character nor does even make any particular sense even when you consider that the universe is stylized. Thus, it's a bad design that also happens to be incredibly pandering at the expense of women.

 

[cm osi]

Sexist? Really?

and HARMFUL. all those people hurt by those gothic lolita androids

I know jack-shit about actual graphic design so...what are, exactly, the standards by which we are judging here?

Is it "design" in the academic sense?, practical sense? or is it how offensive it is to women?

This is bad design IMO:

Not particularly because of the tits or cleavage, but because the design doesn't feel harmonious. The color's don't seem to match either and the whole thing looks off..

This actually looks like good design to me:

It's clear the character was designed to be appealing to men and be overtly sexy and the outfit reflects that 100%. I'm not sure if whether it is offensive or not is part of the discussion. Unless the thread is really about how women are not properly represented and overly sexualized in games.

agree. not really a fan of the second, by i don't think it's bad. the first one feels kind of random