Easily the largest debate blowout in our lifetime.
I genuinely cannot believe this is now a line of attack against her.
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Hillary Clinton publishing book about 2016 election in Sept titled "What Happened"
- Thread starter johnsmith
- Start date
Easily the largest debate blowout in our lifetime.
I genuinely cannot believe this is now a line of attack against her.
Gotta keep on chugging.
It's a fucking joke. How one could watch those debates and call Clinton lazy is fucking insane.
Resident_UA
Member
OMG! So unfair! SAD!
Did you miss the whole elections where Donald Trump's podium was given more air time than Hillary? In your view everyone but Bernie is guilty of Bernie losing but only Clinton is guilty of Clinton losing.
Audioboxer
Member
While what you might refer to as "GAF" can sometimes be secluded/insular from the world at large with some debates, you're kidding yourself if you do not think this book has the potential to have friends, families and foes all arguing about 2016 when it releases. As I said earlier, it's going to get media attention on the news, websites, blogs, social media and so on. It'll be a number 1 best seller as well. Just saying, prepare for September to be the year 2016 all over. Not just on GAF (where it's already begun lol ~ nearly 20 pages about the announcement of a book). This is why I and others would be critical of the timing of this release because it IS going to draw a lot of attention and open up a lot of old wounds. Others seem desperate not to move on, and do want to keep reliving 2016 in search of some elusive "answers". That's not where it's healthy to stay for the Dems, or the followers of the Dems. 4 years isn't actually all that long an amount of time to recover from a pretty shocking loss, rebuild, get fresh candidates and do 2020 properly.
If I'm wrong and hardly anyone says anything across the web and it's in bargain bins within a week then I'll take my mild shock and admit I was wrong.
IrishNinja
Member
fuck me @ the salt here - that "hlillary and all other women to bow out from public life" article rings more & more true.
she ran a shitty campaign & lost to what should have been an easy win. she's not looking to run again, and hopefully bernie (who also wouldn't have won) isn't either. with the current amount of GOP fuckery , how is this relevant? trump will likely hand out electoral maps for years at this rate, but the rest of us should really get past last november at some point.
she ran a shitty campaign & lost to what should have been an easy win. she's not looking to run again, and hopefully bernie (who also wouldn't have won) isn't either. with the current amount of GOP fuckery , how is this relevant? trump will likely hand out electoral maps for years at this rate, but the rest of us should really get past last november at some point.
El_Tiguere
Member
The media played a very active role in both pushing for Trump (at the grotesquely misguided direction from the Clinton camp), and for making the shit cake of low information voters we have as country now. They anointed Clinton, and the American voters who were not loyal to either party responded in kind.
Resident_UA
Member
So are you saying that Hillary is not to blame for her loss but the media is? I mean I would agree with THAT!
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
You are an odd bird, ya know?
In your reality nearly everyone gets the blame, Clinton, Trump, the media, the DNC, and the Clinton Foundation.
Who doesn't get the blame, Bernie and voters like yourself who sat out. So weird.
El_Tiguere
Member
The Clintons dug their grave with independents and young people who are not loyal to any party through their life of corruption, two-faced politics, and avarice. Hillary is partly to blame for Trump because they told their friends in the media that he was a Pied Piper candidate that they would gladly run against. The Clinton corporate machine that has a choke-hold on the party is fully to blame for the 2016 election loss.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Hes a troll, just report/ignore.
Resident_UA
Member
Oh, I'm sorry, so Hillary is to blame for losing the media war the same was as Bernie is guilty of being shitty with media? I guess we are all in agreement that having bad hair day when you announce your candidacy is not a great thing...
El_Tiguere
Member
Bernie doesn't get the blame, because all he did was scream the message he has been peddling for the last 20+ years in Congress against wealth inequality and for social justice. Voters like myself saw 2016 as a chance to have our ONE voice heard, but our voice was silenced by the main evils afflicting this country once again (the power of the wealthy class over our government). I personally would never endorse a compromised self-dealing crook who has had devastating effects on the lives of many many humans across the world (Haiti, Honduras, Libya, other ME countries, etc).
If I had to pick ONE group to blame overall, it is the apathetic loyalist voters of the Democrat party who were tone deaf about Hillary (yes, let's back the establishment two-faced candidate with an FBI investigation into emails that can be released to the public at any moment), and who refuse to recognize the current mood of the country (against the status quo). They were extremely shortsighted, and it cost us the country in 2016.
minor effort
Banned
The Clintons have a Kim family-like control over the DNC, and yet lost a primary in 2008? I dont think that would have happened in North Korea.
Astral Dog
Member
Hmm i thought latinos were voting for Trump too, at least i remember reading something about it 🤔I mean, I'm impressed how the mere mention of Hillary Clinton sends some of you into fits of anger. This is what makes me simmer though.
What does that post have to do with misogyny?
It's that the hispanic margins aren't leading to Dem gains in the levels that were expected a decade ago, and that it's due to them being a heterogenous group.
hammysaurusrex
Member
Yes, I'm sure the Clinton machine had a complete hold on the media, which is why everyone was more interested in filming an empty Trump podium while Clinton was giving policy speeches that went unheard, but happy to talk about Benjamin G. Hazi's emails 24/7.
If you're going to concoct a conspiracy theory, at least take the time to make it internally consistent, regardless of the actual evidence.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It comes down to this:
Hilary thought she would easily win cause LOL Donald Trump what a joke.
The media pushed Hilary under the bus for emails and it received a metric shit tonne of air time (which reinforced the belief of "Hilary's just as bad!!111!!!111!").
There are plenty of racist, sexist, and idiotic voters who relate well to bullying, vulgarity, and liking the loudest person in the room.
Nothing more.
Hilary thought she would easily win cause LOL Donald Trump what a joke.
The media pushed Hilary under the bus for emails and it received a metric shit tonne of air time (which reinforced the belief of "Hilary's just as bad!!111!!!111!").
There are plenty of racist, sexist, and idiotic voters who relate well to bullying, vulgarity, and liking the loudest person in the room.
Nothing more.
Astral Dog
Member
Oh so they aren't growing dem hispanics some of them were becoming Trump supporters they have to reach them somehow
It's more complicated than that because you have certain backgrounds being GOP-leaning, others being religious conservatives, and others just straight up shifting to white-identifying. It makes it complicated and stalls out the electoral consequences of demographic change we thought would be here sooner. (also complicated by population flight from white rural states)
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Just amazing how much blame you pass around but didn't do the one thing you could do to stop Trump. Least you have your silenced voice.
Sanders lost because of his own campaign, he couldn't get support with key demographics in the democratic party. He pulled in the youth vote, grats.
El_Tiguere
Member
It's not a conspiracy theory, it only takes some time to look through news videos from the 2016 election/primaries to notice the trends. There are many many examples out there, but here are qick few in case you are genuine in your interest to find out the facts.
Compilation of CNN & MSNBC Cutting Guests Mics to Protect Hillary Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdYRN8Clddw
The Media's Comically Strident Anti-Bernie Sanders Bias
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWIDi8pTM8o
I DO still have my good conscience. My progressive butt could not travel across the Midwest, the rust belt, and other non-liberal echo chamber urban coastal spots to prevent the anti-Clinton anti-status quo deluge that was easily predictable in 2016.
hammysaurusrex
Member
Awesome, The_Donald and TYT. Just wonderful.
El_Tiguere
Member
Awesome... no commentary on the actual news clips?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Jesus that youtube video. You really are tin foil aren't you?
Gonna leave this here, I know actual data.
Basically, Bernie got his ass kicked among non-white voters...who made up 40% of the turn out and he didn't make up that deficit among white voters. He couldn't pull in a majority of card carrying members of the democratic party, which is kinda of important and he lost urban areas that had large populations.
You can make up your own reality though, its cool.
Gonna leave this here, I know actual data.
Basically, Bernie got his ass kicked among non-white voters...who made up 40% of the turn out and he didn't make up that deficit among white voters. He couldn't pull in a majority of card carrying members of the democratic party, which is kinda of important and he lost urban areas that had large populations.
You can make up your own reality though, its cool.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Bruh, look at that first source that you posted and his YouTube channel name- Real McGoy. He's a fucking Nazi or fascist antisemitic alt-right'er.
You're making the progressive cause look bad by sourcing from this kind of person.
hydragonwarrior
Member
With all this bickering in this thread, I now really wish Bernie and his powerful influence had happened in 2020 instead. That way we can completely blame Hillary/Hillary's advisors for the mess we're in now rather than always devolving into a Bernie vs Hillary debate with nothing to come out of it.
I want to hear it
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Go away Hilary. You're the reason (and half the American population) we're stuck with dumb Trump.
As a non American, I hear she didnt even campaign in every state? Im no politician but I don't think thats how elections are won.
As a non American, I hear she didnt even campaign in every state? Im no politician but I don't think thats how elections are won.
hammysaurusrex
Member
I'm not interested in viewing a video presented by an anti-semetic subreddit / hate group. So yes, I unapologetically ignored the first video. Find a more credible source.
As for TYT. I need something more compelling then "WaPo dares to criticize Sanders"
An actual academic article would probably be more convincing. Something like this for example: https://shorensteincenter.org/pre-primary-news-coverage-2016-trump-clinton-sanders/#_ftnref22
edit: That being said, I adore seeing The_Donald and TYT used together to "prove" a political narrative. It's fascinating seeing horseshoe theory alive in the wild.
I have just spent the past couple of minutes just reading your completely delusional fantasy, and low tier conspiracy theories from The_Donald of all places.
Here's the truth, Bernie was fool who hired the wrong people to run his campaign. He shouldn't have called himself a democratic socialist when a good chunk of Americans still have the Red Scare in their heads from the cold war and Latino Americans are weary of it. He shouldn't have ignored the South, which was mostly black democrats and that wasn't a good look. He should have stopped his campaign team from going as insane as they did after New York.
These mistakes hurt him from getting the older minority votes, while Clinton, for example, worked hard after 2008 to reach out the Black vote; she went to their communities, talked to them, listened to their issues. Bernie didn't, not to her extent at the very least. His team should have not done the shit they did after New York, like attack an AIDS/HIV activist in California by calling him a big pharma shill.
Face facts, Hillary didn't make the same amount of critical mistakes as he did during the primaries. That's why she won and Bernie lost.
The thing is, it's not just this one election. While Obama was in power, Democrats lost about a thousand seats across the board, from state legislatures to Congress to governorships to what have you. However important the Russia stuff and Comey have been, they cannot explain how the DNC leadership alienated significant chunks of the electorate that went for Obama in '08 by themselves, because that process goes way further back.
This is what we need to debate. Policy vision (or lack thereof), and why what the Democrats brought forward wasn't good enough.
There has been absolutely no acknowledgement by anyone in the Hillary camp (that I have seen) how damaging the DNC leaks were with respect to Sanders voters. It still blows my mind. The mere admission of some sort of responsibility would go a long way to healing that rift (and the Dems need the left, sorry haters).
You think the anger at Russia hacking them and deliberately curating and editing the leaks to leave context out (and timing it to maximize damage) is "no acknowledgment"?
case in point
Well that's easy. The DNC under Obama was incompetent and his superstar politician status hid all of it. Once he wasn't the man in front the rot underneath showed through. Democrats responded by throwing out the old chairpeople of the DNC (Wasserman Shultz and Brazille) and bringing in Perez and Elison to lead the future.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
One thing I don't understand. As a UK citizen looking in from the outside I don't get the rage aimed at Hillary. When Brexit was being voted on in the UK it was pretty clear why we got that result and studies have backed it up. There was a huge focus on immigration and disinformation around the subject. It's like a polite way of saying racism played a huge part.
Why is this not the case for the US when Trumps campaign repeatedly panders to racists and sexist people? I don't get why everyone's happy to point the finger at her and brush off the idea of a large part of the country holding disgusting views as if she ever had a chance of winning them over.
Why is this not the case for the US when Trumps campaign repeatedly panders to racists and sexist people? I don't get why everyone's happy to point the finger at her and brush off the idea of a large part of the country holding disgusting views as if she ever had a chance of winning them over.
Instead of trying to reform the DNC, Obama instead tried to shift its functions onto Obama for America.
This did not work and instead caused a large number of issues in its wake!
So are you just victim-blaming then?
I really want to know what happened there. They worked fucking hard in 2006 and 2008 with a strong 50 state strategy. After that, the just stopped completely and didn't even bother fighting the rising alt right/tea party storm.
Resident_UA
Member
Because their policy was already enacted by Obama (mostly). So Hillary had to run on "more of the same" platform. Small steps towards single payer for example. Sure Democrats can come up with new slogans, but even with current fuckery their only message for 2020 can be "we will undo what the orange menace has brought upon us".
The country is moving in the right direction with Democrats as far as I'm concerned. I think bigger reforms are needed, but Bernie's "reforms" are just patches that don't fix anything. I believe that segregated schools are bigger problem than "no college" and no amount of "taxing the rich" will get rid of loopholes. Democrats have pretty good ideas, but it does have to be one step at a time.
yeah see that's a problem right there
for all his bona fides, Perez is an Obama guy through and through, and he's been pushed to the Chairmanship when pretty much everyone in the grassroots wanted Ellison, and that's really worrying if you think the DNC should focus on rebuilding a popular movement instead of focusing on pleasing massive donors!
You say "Mostly" like the devil isn't in the details. "Mostly" doesn't account for the 27 million uninsured under Obamacare, for instance. "Mostly" doesn't account for Yemen or Libya. "Mostly" covers up a lot of fucked up things, domestic and foreign, that have a tangible effect on people's lives. And this is why they need a bold, loud and clear policy agenda. Free college for all, Single Payer Healthcare, those are big things, easy to explain, and providing a net benefit for everyone. That's the kind of policy we need. We've tried "one step at a time" for decades, and the only thing it got us is the point we're at right now.
They literally blocked voting stations. I'm sure of it!
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Because the Clinton's as a whole have had nearly thirty years of vitriol and slander thrown in their direction.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Because she did commit some costly mistakes. This election was so close that anything could've tilted it. Even with the constant smear campaign from the GOP, the Russia hacking, the disinformation, the lopsided media coverage, etc., Hillary still could've won this if she had done a few things differently. She is not 100% to blame, but she is still to blame. She also had the whole "corrupt" stink on her after decades of smears, and people were still sore about the primaries.
The other part of it is it makes people feel better about the country. Everyone talks about how this was supposed to be a "slam dunk" election that she choked away, and the fact that is was close at all is damning enough. People don't want to face the harsh reality that there are a fuckton of racists in America that wholeheartedly supported Trump's position. People don't want to believe America is that shitty, so instead they choose to believe that anyone other than Hillary Clinton (including Sanders) would've mopped the floor with Trump, so it's her fault we're stuck with him.
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