Dude Abides
Banned
Let black people vote.
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Hillary Clinton publishing book about 2016 election in Sept titled "What Happened"
- Thread starter johnsmith
- Start date
Let black people vote.
excelsiorlef
Member
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
You're so close. Now could you please tell me which qualities Trump possessed that made him the better candidate?
I was going to say that, but I didn't want to be that snarky.
But, yes, the DNC primary is like the only national election that doesn't systematically disenfranchise black people. Bernie picked the wrong election to go all-in on young white dudes.
No?
I don't think that the dnc stole the nomination from Bernie. I'm not one of those people.
The party elite did fuck up severely by endorsing Clinton but that wasn't underhanded or unfair, just hacky and predictable.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
How did they fuck up if Clinton beat Bernie? I mean by your own metric Bernie is a worse candidate than Hillary, cause he lost to her. No?
Same reasons why other candidates never win elections in North Korea.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
And, surely you have something other than a link to Schultz.
Father_Brain
Banned
The DNC treated Sanders shittily, but the only way he could have won the primary would have been to run a drastically different campaign that started much earlier and with more ambitious goals than pushing Clinton to the left. By January 2016, Hillary's structural advantages and his structural disadvantages were just too baked in for anything the DNC did to have changed the outcome.
MisterShine
Member
From what I understand, young PoC were about 50/50 between Bernie and Hillary. It was the older folks who swung more towards her, and of course there are usually more older voters than young.
Snarky❤;244673418 said:
I don't know why you're being condescending. If you have a point you should make an effort to actually elucidate it instead of this obnoxious faux-Platonic low effort snark.
I can't tell you why people in swing states voted for Trump over Clinton. There are lanyards all over the country being paid to figure that out. The fact is he beat her at the game. He got more electoral votes than she did, and now he gets to be president. That means he was better at being a candidate than she was.
If you have different criteria for 'good candidate' then maybe go ahead and list them instead of this tedious shit
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
OK so you don't actually know why Trump beat Hillary you just know that Hillary is worse because trump beat her. Got it.
El_Tiguere
Member
Nah you should really use google or another search engine. On the health issue, you can look up all her coughing fits leading up to her collapse on camera. This took her off of the campaign many times.
The reason I don't give links is because I'm at work, yet there are TOO MANY instances of shenanigans. What aspect do you want to tackle? media collusion? Clinton/DNC shills in the media coronating Clinton before the primary (including DWS)? emails highlighting collusion of the DNC and HRC and between HRC and the media? how the DNC and the media pushed propaganda against Bernie to twist his positions, or to twist events like the Nevada primary to paint Bernie supporters as violent Bernie Bros? The list is endless... I could keep going, and honestly I don't think me spending the time to link to every video or evidence out there will do squat to make you interested in going against your preconceived idea that the 2016 primaries were squeaky clean.
In terms of the Haitian election, as the article you linked shows and states, it was they the United States not some cabal of the Clinton's. The Hatian earthquake and disaster relief should have been handled much better from all sides. It was a clusterfuck but I don't get why you are singling out the Clinton foundation, do you consider the Red Cross a massive scam?[/QUOTE]
Yeah but they weakened the party by going all in on the status quo establishment wing of the party. Would have been better to stay neutral, not because of the 2016 election but for the overall health of the D brand.
But yes obviously Hillary was a better candidate than Bernie in the primary. She beat him.
It was both axes. White people voted for Sanders in greater numbers than minorities, and younger people voted for Sanders in greater numbers than older ones. This held true intersectionally w/ younger minority voters vs older ones, where there was indeed a gap, but the numbers were lower for Sanders across the board when you compared it to younger white voters vs older white ones.
Are you kidding me? Gore, Romney and Kerry were roundly criticized for being boring status quo politicians. What world were you living in where this wasn't the case?
Romney was accused of having the primaries rigged in his favor...which was true! They changed the fucking rules to make sure he had an easy convention. And when he thought about putting his name in the ring for 2016 he was repeatedly told not to - even though he'd be better than Trump.
Gore was constantly mocked for talking like a robot and Kerry is still made fun of for being boring as all hell.
All three candidates couldn't give energy to their party and represented the status quo. All three lost. Hillary is no different.
The big difference with Hillary is that many of her supporters constantly call anybody critical of her sexist. Does sexism play a part in the hatred towards her? Of course! Is it the whole story? Dear god no. If she were a man she would just be Kerry 2.0 - and he lost to George W Bush!
Snarky❤;244674222 said:
... better than continuing to imply that Hillary is somehow better at politics than the person who beat her at politics.
I mean I'm not a fucking basketball expert either but I can watch a game and look at the scoreboard to tell you which team is better at basketball, for fuck's sake.
You're the person living in a dream world where there is some outside criteria for judging skill at politics that doesn't involve actual politics.
They were criticized, but absolutely nowhere near as much as Hillary. It isn't even close.
And Romney rigged the primary? That's a first. Delegate assignment rules may favor a given candidate (they clearly favored Sanders on the Dem side last year), but you really think it was an intentional change to benefit him, planned... how far in advance, exactly?
I agree! And I think your thoughts in this post are much like my own:
The latter is definitely preferable to me too. If the Dems give over to racism then the party is little better than the Trump Republicans, even with economic progressive policies.
I have no problem calling out assholes who just want free college or health care but who won't protect civil rights for minorities, and there are definitely some posters who fit that bill, but I wouldn't say most.
Sure, we all generalize some. But I think many of ya'll rely on these stereotypes too much. Bernie did well not just among white males under 30, but also among blacks and particularly Hispanics under 30, and women as well. And the man remains the most popular politician in America today, among ALL demographics, with high favorables with latinos and blacks.
Can you see how it dismisses those of us who are progressive and supported Sanders but who aren't white or young to constantly peddle this tired stereotype?
Oh yeah? I mean by April 2016 you couldn't go into a primary thread without Clinton supporters calling Bernie a prick, an old asshole, and all kinds of pejoratives. So here this wasn't really true. Outside of NeoGAF I don't know, maybe you're right.
old manatee
Banned
It certainly doesn't make him a good one.
She also beat him by millions of votes
It's not as if she 100 percent shanked it
Book sounds interesting as hell
Dude Abides
Banned
HIS NAME WAS SETH RICH!
It's not a first. The RNC changed the convention rules the week of the convention. Look it up.
And I agreed that she may get more criticism cause she is a woman, but I'm pointing out that it isn't the whole story. Heck, you're ignoring the whole being married to Bill who they tried to impeach! There are still people who hate him as well and her by association. The Clinton scandals haven't all been about her.
guggnichso
Banned
None of those lost to Donald fucking Trump, a man that is not able to string together two coherent sentences without contradicting himself multiple times.
Romney won the primaries. You really think there was going to be a floor revolt against him?
That isn't how modern conventions work. This isn't the West Wing or House of Cards. The person who is the clear, unambiguous winner of the primary contests walks away with the nomination.
TurnipFritters
Member
Romney actually made an impassioned plea for Republicans to not vote for Donald Trump in the primary.
I'm not saying he wouldn't have won the convention. I'm saying the RNC was criticized for changing the rules to favor him the day of. Geez. This was widely reported. Why are you harping on this point?
QuantumBro
Banned
During the 2016 primaries, not the 2012 election in which he got a public endorsement from Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw
I mean, the person you're quoting said let's not pretend Bernie supporters weren't the aggressors in the escalation, and you're countering by quoting this board around April 2016? When the primary was already over for everyone besides hardcore Bernie supporters? Yes, at that point Clinton supporters were going in hard on Bernie, because they had been listening to Bernie supporters bash her for months. The antagonism started well before April, you can go back to December 2015 when the whole Bernie staffers downloaded voter data from DNC servers and see how the crazed Bernie supporters responded to that. And even before in Fall 2015 you could see the problems start. The primaries started out quite civil, then the hardcore Bernie wing started going nuts, and then the hardcore Clinton wing started hitting back, probably around March 2016.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
So you have nothing other than hey guys, I'm going to make wild claims, google it for yourself. Glad we got that charade over with.
Basically, this.
It's going great! We've decided the final ranking of the 2016 presidential candidates, ordered by their results:
1) God Emperor Trump (The madman!)
2) Hillary (or Shillary if you're into that sort of tinfoil)
3) Bernie (he lost to Hillary therefore he is a worst candidate than the top 2)
-----
10000000000) Ted Cruz (Zodiac Killer)
teruterubozu
Member
Oh god we're back to Wasserman, Bernie, Hillary, Romney, etc.
this book is cancer.
this book is cancer.
Don't put this shit on the book, it is just GAF being GAF about this election.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Snarky❤;244673418 said:
Well, he at least never stopped to attack his opponent. Hillary on the other hand was told by her team that it would not look good to outright attack Trump on his wrongdoings. She was a weak candidate against a loudmouth.
teruterubozu
Member
LoL. Well carry on then.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Except people constantly shit on her for "vote for me because I'm not Trump." She went after him plenty.
excelsiorlef
Member
Actually, I misspoke, it got ugly here before April, I believe it was pretty bad after the first week in February when Sanders overperformed, but no, you may be right with regards to 2015. I'll counter with the fact that Clinton was practically anointed by the DNC, and that Sanders' campaign started as a longshot, single-issue campaign, so they had to be pretty aggressive. Hillary's campaign had all the advantages out of the gate.
I'll retract part of what I said. Both "sides" have been fairly shitty to each other for the past year and a half. I don't think that pro-Bernie people have stereotyped establishment Dems as much as the other way around, though. We have had some real wingnuts who have attacked Hillary with bullshit alt-right talking points, however- health crisis, Benghazi, etc.
Needs more Pizzagate and Russian uranium or whatever.
teruterubozu
Member
Like I said, carry on then.
unknownhero
Member
honestly, it should just be one page with one word: Hubris. Not campaigning in major states, being lazy during the debates. Pffft, "if you look on my websites..." How about you tell us instead?
Lazy on debates? Not talking policy? What?
El_Tiguere
Member
Out of all the Hillary vs Bernie debates, THIS is the most important fact that allowed Hillary to coast through the early primaries. The ugly reality is that the media bias in favor of Hillary was RAMPANT throughout 2015, even if both her and Bernie had announced their campaign early in 2015. This bias kept Bernie hidden from view mostly, while everybody fawned over Hillary's assured presidency. This is the grotesque hand that the media played all throughout 2015 and into 2016 to coronate Clinton, and to placate Bernie.
Just like in the UK, the media and his own Labor party attacked Corbyn, and yet he had a meteoric rise in popularity that got him great election results. In the US, Bernie's meteoric rise happened as soon as the first Democrat Primary debates in late 2015, (and he got notice after he was pulling crowds north of 28 thousand by August), because most Americans had not even heard what he was about (again, deliberate attempt by the media). Here is the Google search trends reflecting this fact, with people searching who Bernie was after the debate in January:
The early primaries in the South affected Bernie's chances, and by the time, the Clinton name was too embedded with the older folks that assured her the nomination. The media had done its part in twisting the Bernie campaign as a nuisance at the side of Queen Hillary.
foodtaster
Banned
This. Using basically every metric possible Trump tried harder. Hilary was lazy. The end.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
So we are dropping the charade of Hillary's health and DNC/HRC collusion and moving to media bias. Okay.
You are not wrong. At least to me the entire campaign had a very "It's my turn now" attitude.
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