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[Phrozenflame500]

It was interesting how little build up there was to this scene. I was not expecting an epic battle to suddenly take place. Even when you hear the army rumbling, I was taken aback by just how long and involved this battle ended up being. I expected them to just try and retreat once the dragon appeared, yet it kept going and going

It was really interesting, especially for a battle that really doesn't appear at first glance to have a whole lot of plot significance (assuming Jaime/Bronn both survive, all this battle really means is that Dany now knows about the ballistas). I'm hoping them sinking budget into this fight means they're confident they have *another* equally or more impressive battle down the road.

 

[Rentahamster]

List of careers to consider:

Stuntman

Not even for fat stacks of cash?

Good stuntmen make bank.

 

[Einchy]

Honestly better than the Battle of the Bastards.

Bronn was channeling Roy Scheider when Drogon was gunning for him.

I still like BoB a bit more than Spoils of War but SoW is DAMN close, like, just a lil' tiny bit behind BoB. They both blow away Hardhome, though, which at that point blew away Blackwater and the attack on The Wall.

Whatever is coming in season 8 is gonna be insane.

 

[LakeEarth]

Fantastic timing between "we can hold them off!" and the dragon wail.

 

[RDreamer]

You should go in the Book Spoilers thread and tell them. It's sure to warm some of their hearts.

I dunno. I'm a pretty bad pussy. I might need 20 good men to go in with me.


Anyway, I don't know what to tell those that don't see the quality drop. It's pretty stunning. I mean the show's still engaging enough and now it has some crazy moments for TV, but the writing is pretty goddamned rocky. The entire Dorne plot line, most of Ramsay's existence and now Euron are all travesties of writing compared to what we got in the first three seasons.

And then in an episode like this they heavily went style over substance when even a few minor fixes could have squashed the glaring issues with what's actually going on.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I kind of love the Jaime = prince that was promised/Azor Ahai theories that have been cropping up. It would be a really interesting way to subvert expectations while still being satisfying and plausible. His arc is low-key one of the more compelling and dynamic in the series, and the fact we're in the later stages of the narrative with key prophecies still left somewhat open ended is a credit to the storytelling.

I'm starting to think that maybe this prophecy will never be resolved, and that that may be the point. GRRM makes it so that it could plausibly apply to a handful of different people, and we never get to know which one of the "true" prince, while several different people will claim it to aid their cause. Would be an interesting commentary on and inversion of the prophecy trope.

 

[RustyNails]

Battle of Bastards is still king. Followed by this one. Hardhome comes close 3rd.

BoB is perfection.

 

[rothgar]

I still like BoB a bit more than Spoils of War but SoW is DAMN close, like, just a lil' tiny bit behind BoB. They both blow away Hardhome, though, which at that point blew away Blackwater and the attack on The Wall.

Whatever is coming in season 8 is gonna be insane.

I love that all of these big battles look and feel so different. I wish I was articulate enough to explain in detail why each one is so great in their own way. As far as I am concerned, GOAT TV show.

 

[Beer Monkey]

It's crazy to me that Matt Shakman has directed over 60 episodes of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. His GoT directorial debut was impressive.

FYI he directed this week's episode also.

 

[Sephzilla]

I still prefer the Battle of the Bastards because that battle has a bit more emotional resonance with it than the Spoils of War battle. You get the downfall of, arguably, the most evil fucking person in Westeros with Ramsay Bolton, Jon Snow returning, and House Stark reclaiming their home. Plus the single most badass moment in the show.

That being said, the Spoils of War battle was jaw dropping. Probably the second best battle in Game of Thrones for me.

 

[pretty done]

You should go in the Book Spoilers thread and tell them. It's sure to warm some of their hearts.

Also ask them the release date for Winds while you're at it.

 

[Eidan]

I dunno. I'm a pretty bad pussy. I might need 20 good men to go in with me.


Anyway, I don't know what to tell those that don't see the quality drop. It's pretty stunning. I mean the show's still engaging enough and now it has some crazy moments for TV, but the writing is pretty goddamned rocky. The entire Dorne plot line, most of Ramsay's existence and now Euron are all travesties of writing compared to what we got in the first three seasons.

And then in an episode like this they heavily went style over substance when even a few minor fixes could have squashed the glaring issues with what's actually going on.

Don't be afraid. Stick your fat pink mast in that Myrish swamp.

 

[majik13]

Great scene. Couple of things bother me, as a stickler. Nothing major though. And sorry if already brought up.

1. Kinda lucky that the giant crossbow was like the last remaining thing to be destroyed.
2. when its destroyed Bronn just jumps off, and isnt hurt at all, while every other dragon breath attack had a massive fireball radius.
3.When Bronn knocks Jamie off the horse, the physics and logic of this is kinda absurd. First him not being anywhere near Jaime and then the impossible feat of somehow jumping up and knocking someone off a horse that is going full tilt is next to impossible.
4. Jaime is riding down the river in shallow water, but when hit off the horse he is now sinking several hundred feet below water?

I know its a fantasy show, and I just need to suspend belief, many movies and shows do stuff like this but much worse. but all these things stood out to me, and I should just let it slide. Regardless it was an epic scene especially for a TV show.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I still like BoB a bit more than Spoils of War but SoW is DAMN close, like, just a lil' tiny bit behind BoB. They both blow away Hardhome, though, which at that point blew away Blackwater and the attack on The Wall.

Whatever is coming in season 8 is gonna be insane.

I still prefer the Battle of the Bastards because that battle has a bit more emotional resonance with it than the Spoils of War battle. You get the downfall of, arguably, the most evil fucking person in Westeros with Ramsay Bolton, Jon Snow returning, and House Stark reclaiming their home. Plus the single most badass moment in the show.

That being said, the Spoils of War battle was jaw dropping. Probably the second best battle in Game of Thrones for me.

I can understand that viewpoint. BoB was the highpoint of the Bolton plots coming to an end and it was more personal and grounded seeing most of it from Jon's perspective.

 

[Sephzilla]

I can understand that viewpoint. BoB was the highpoint of the Bolton plots coming to an end and it was more personal and grounded seeing most of it from Jon's perspective.

I admit that part of my enjoyment from BoB comes from the fact that I really wanted to see Bolton finally go down. I hated that bastard more than Joffrey and Cersei.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

I don't know if I would say it was completely devoid of any narrative content, but this is why I ultimately like Battle of the Bastards more. Sure, the Loot Train fight is more visually spectacular, but BoB had a lot more going for it narratively and emotionally speaking.

This battle finally shows what Daenerys stands for and what she's willing to do to get the throne. Other wars before this were done by mostly cynic noble people in the quest for power and with conventional armies, and by people who know the territory and who know their limits in how much destruction they can get away with.
Daenerys, however, is just insane. Not only is she woefully ignorant of the places and people she seeks to transform, she beliefs by virtue of being the "rightful ruler" she will bring peace and prosperity, even though her ancestors did the opposite and were nothing but imperialistic butchers. And she has weapons of mass destruction.
This scene shows the shock of the expectations of an army and a society being shattered by the new status quo, and at the same time draws parallelisms to the Mad King through the perspective of Jaime Lannister.
It's brilliant, and I expect Daenerys to become more and more of a villain as she confronts Cersei. (Who is another villain, mind you)
So this is basically an illegitimate revolutionary attacking an illegitimate status quo, only WMD are involved.

 

[Solo]

I haven't watched GoT since S4, and doubt I'll ever get back to it, so I watched the clip. Pretty good aside from the horrendous closeups on Dany, both due to the wonky effects and Emilia Clarke's awful acting.

 

[Darth Pinche]

I can't get over that the director is the same guy who directed a ton of It's Always Sunny episodes!

 

[RDreamer]

Great scene. Couple of things bother me, as a stickler. Nothing major though. And sorry if already brought up.

1. Kinda lucky that the giant crossbow was like the last remaining thing to be destroyed.
2. when its destroyed Bronn just jumps off, and isnt hurt at all, while every other dragon breath attack had a massive fireball radius.
3.When Bronn knocks Jamie off the horse, the physics and logic of this is kinda absurd. First him not being anywhere near Jaime and then the impossible feat of somehow jumping up and knocking someone off a horse that is going full tilt is next to impossible.
4. Jaime is riding down the river in shallow water, but when hit off the horse he is now sinking several hundred feet below water?

I know its a fantasy show, and I just need to suspend belief, many movies and shows do stuff like this but much worse. but all these things stood out to me, and I should just let it slide. Regardless it was an epic scene especially for a TV show.

Yeah they even say in the making of that the radius is like 30 feet. And if you watch again fire hits to both sides of Bronn. He's just somehow not hit.

 

[TimeEffect]

Of course it does. And no, it didn't feel silly. At this point a likeable character dying is more the rule than the exception to it. Hell, even the 'main' characters can't be completely counted on.

The problem isn't him surviving, its how he does it and what he does

 

[molnizzle]

Great scene, but Battle of the Bastards is still the GOAT. The extended single shot sequence of Jon wailing on motherfuckers while horses are colliding... damn. Incredible cinematography, even if some of it was faked (not sure how much of it actually was). Best battle sequence in TV history.

 

[Einchy]

I can't get over that the director is the same guy who directed a ton of It's Always Sunny episodes!

Get the guy who did Charlie Work.

 

[LakeEarth]

The problem isn't him surviving, its how he does it and what he does

The fact that he's right next to a dragon fireball blowing up a large wooden stucture and is unharmed and unburnt, and follows that up with a world record high jump to knock Jaime off of his horse going full speed.

EDIT - again, still an awesome scene, but you have to laugh at that. Dude's using some cheat codes.

 

[-griffy-]

Get the guy who did Charlie Work.

That's the guy that directed Spoils of War!

 

[Einchy]

That's the guy that directed Spoils of War!

MIND BLOWN

 

[Obliterator]

This was one of the most impressive thing I've ever seen on television. In fact the only things that rival it as far as TV are other Game of Thrones battles.

The thing that made this one so special besides obviously the insanity of seeing a Dragon unleashed, was this was the first battle the series had where I like all the major players involved and didn't want to see any of them die. It was an emotionally confusing and powerful scene because of it.

 

[arglebargle]

She wanted to demonstrate the Dothraki could fight armored Westerosi just as good as any army. Also she was strategic about it. She burned a line through the shield wall for the horses then used the wagons as tinder to entrap the army between the fire and Dothraki.

not sure i follow. doesnt deploying the dragon at all undermine the goal of demonstrating the dothraki could fight armored westerosi?

 

[number11]

People complain that the show skips over battle scenes (episode 3).. but it's worth it when the budget is given to one big battle like this.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

the making of video was really cool

thanks for sharing op!

 

[Mudcrab]

That's the guy that directed Spoils of War!

what the fuck?!

 

[hydrophilic attack]

This battle finally shows what Daenerys stands for and what she's willing to do to get the throne. Other wars before this were done by mostly cynic noble people in the quest for power and with conventional armies, and by people who know the territory and who know their limits in how much destruction they can get away with.
Daenerys, however, is just insane. Not only is she woefully ignorant of the places and people she seeks to transform, she beliefs by virtue of being the "rightful ruler" she will bring peace and prosperity, even though her ancestors did the opposite and were nothing but imperialistic butchers. And she has weapons of mass destruction.
This scene shows the shock of the expectations of an army and a society being shattered by the new status quo, and at the same time draws parallelisms to the Mad King through the perspective of Jaime Lannister.
It's brilliant, and I expect Daenerys to become more and more of a villain as she confronts Cersei. (Who is another villain, mind you)
So this is basically an illegitimate revolutionary attacking an illegitimate status quo, only WMD are involved.

Yeah, this is an excellent description of the case for Dany as villain

 

[hoos30]

I dunno. I'm a pretty bad pussy. I might need 20 good men to go in with me.


Anyway, I don't know what to tell those that don't see the quality drop. It's pretty stunning. I mean the show's still engaging enough and now it has some crazy moments for TV, but the writing is pretty goddamned rocky. The entire Dorne plot line, most of Ramsay's existence and now Euron are all travesties of writing compared to what we got in the first three seasons.

And then in an episode like this they heavily went style over substance when even a few minor fixes could have squashed the glaring issues with what's actually going on.

After S4, the plot is anchored to two dead-weight books and two books which won't be published until long after the series' production is concluded. Just accept it as a badass TV show and not the adaptation of three beloved novels and you'll be much happier.

 

[neoemonk]

I loved this scene, and nice to see that I wasn't alone. I remember checking out one of the threads here on Monday of this week and there was some negativity about it which surprised me, but then I remembered that it's just the way it is online sometimes.

 

[Nameless]

Yeah Hardhome, Battle of The Bastards, and Watchers on the Wall had a bigger impact due to characters I'm heavily invested in being involved, but that was probably the most visually stunning set pieces they've done to date which is saying a lot.

 

[Gin-Shiio]

Yeah, this is an excellent description of the case for Dany as villain

I get where the argument is coming from, but the show has done and continues to do its best to make her seem like the savior of all, no matter where she goes and no matter how ignorant she is of the things around her. She is portrayed as rightful and just to the viewer.

Pretty sure the scenery wasn't CG... Watch the making of.

That's very interesting, thank you. I want to say it definitely looked prettied up, but I'll give the making of a watch.

 

[RDreamer]

After S4, the plot is anchored to two dead-weight books and two books which won't be published until long after the series' production is concluded. Just accept it as a badass TV show and not the adaptation of three beloved novels and you'll be much happier.

I don't really care what they follow or don't follow. As I said, I'm not a book reader. Well, I did read the first one and a bit of the 2nd but that was after Season 5 had already aired and I watched that. I just want a good show. I'm still liking it enough to keep going obviously, but those first three seasons were the absolute pinnacle of fantasy media for me. I used to write novels myself a bit and after seeing those I kind of felt like giving up because this show existed. That's how I feel about those seasons. Season 5 was really bad, but Season 6 was decent. Season 7 is ok so far but the writing just doesn't compare. I guess my problem is that I can see spectacle and battles and shit in movies all the time if I want. I can't get what Season 1-4 of Game of Thrones offered in a movie or really anywhere else. It's sad to see that part go.

 

[Steejee]

After S4, the plot is anchored to two dead-weight books and two books which won't be published until long after the series' production is concluded. Just accept it as a badass TV show and not the adaptation of three beloved novels and you'll be much happier.

I've found the series is at its best when it was able to detach the anchor of books 4 and 5. Sansa got past the book first (like late S4 or early S5) and while she's still had some iffy moments, I feel she's been far better after that point than when she was still a book character. Cersei's ruthlessness has gone up since passing the books, Arya got out of her training finally, etc. Yeah it's not perfect, but the more the series gets away from the books, the better it's been in my eyes. Seasons 1-3 had the much better books 1-3 to build on, so the show started strong. Having to work through the bloated 4 and 5 just dragged things down for a while.

Dorne was still a huge waste in the show and got unceremoniously dropped the moment they could. I prefer show Euron to book Euron by a fair bit, even if Dany's forces don't seem to have much of a naval superiority strategy going and he could build an armada far quicker than the progression of other events would suggest he had the time to do. Unlike others his movements this season haven't bothered me - the cutting of the episodes makes it seem like he's teleporting, but I really haven't seen anything this season that's too out there for time when you compare movements.

 

[Loris146]

This is like going naked against Fatalis.

 

[Macka]

Eh, it was nice to look at, but it's far from one of my favourite scenes in the show. It's all just too fanservicey and full of TV cliches now.

Why would Dany fly Drogon in a straight line directly at the ballista after the first shot missed? Like...seriously? And then when Bronn does land a hit, she STILL decides its best to hover directly in front of it to burn it up, but not before Bronn is able to leap from it at the very last second of course. Alol.

Then there's Bronn saving Jaime by knocking him off of his horse an inch from shore, and suddenly they're in incredibly deep water.

And then there's the stupidity of Dany specifically targeting the wagons when this was an assured victory even without Drogon, and she had literally just been complaining that the Lannisters were taking all of the food in her previous scene. This setpiece was designed to look pretty, but it's all very dumb imo.

I didn't like Battle of the Bastards all that much either. Technically impressive, sure, but Ramsay had greatly overstayed his welcome at that point and Jon had literally

Spoiler

just returned from the dead

, so there wasn't much tension there. Doesn't help that Jon is a terribly flat character (and actor), who consistently makes the same mistakes over and over again and is celebrated for them.

Hardhome still reigns supreme as far as pure battle scenes go, and Blackwater absolutely blows everything else out of the water

Spoiler

when it comes to script and actually giving a shit about what happens.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I get where the argument is coming from, but the show has done and continues to do its best to make her seem like the savior of all, no matter where she goes and no matter how ignorant she is of the things around her. She is portrayed as rightful and just to the viewer.

Teaser for the next episode seems to suggest they're going to throw some doubts in there. And I certainly hope so, you're right that Dany's been characterized a bit too brightly if only because she's the alternative to Cersei.

 

[Sephzilla]

Eh, it was nice to look at, but it's far from one of my favourite scenes in the show. It's all just too fanservicey and full of TV cliches now.

Why would Dany fly Drogon in a straight line directly at the ballista after the first shot missed? Like...seriously? And then when Bronn does land a hit, she STILL decides its best to hover directly in front of it to burn it up, but not before Bronn is able to leap from it at the very last second of course. Alol.

Then there's Bronn saving Jaime by knocking him off of his horse an inch from shore, and suddenly they're in incredibly deep water.


And then there's the stupidity of Dany specifically targeting the wagons when this was an assured victory even without Drogon, and she had literally just been complaining that the Lannisters were taking all of the food in her previous scene. This setpiece was designed to look pretty, but it's all very dumb imo.

I didn't like Battle of the Bastards all that much either. Technically impressive, sure, but Ramsay had greatly overstayed his welcome at that point and Jon had literally

Spoiler

just returned from the dead

, so there wasn't much tension there. Doesn't help that Jon is a terribly flat character (and actor), who consistently makes the same mistakes over and over again and is celebrated for them.

Hardhome still reigns supreme as far as pure battle scenes go, and Blackwater absolutely blows everything else out of the water

Spoiler

when it comes to script and actually giving a shit about what happens.

Because Dany isn't exactly a military genius and has almost no battle experience

 

[Starphanluke]

This question was already answered like 3 times before you two got to it, thanks.

Well shit, my bad. Must have missed it.

Anyway, I thought the battle was really well done, but I still think I prefer the BotB. Maybe it's just the Miguel Sapochnik fanboy in me, but there's something I felt in BotB that I didn't in the Loot Train. Still fantastic though, and it was awesome to see a dragon finally in action. Excited to see what sort of battles these next 3 episodes are cooking up.

 

[MikeRahl]

And then there's the stupidity of Dany specifically targeting the wagons when this was an assured victory even without Drogon, and she had literally just been complaining that the Lannisters were taking all of the food in her previous scene. This setpiece was designed to look pretty, but it's all very dumb imo.

The narrative was that they were right outside of King's Landing. Jamie got the update that the gold made it through the gate safely.

The alternative to destroying all the food would be to capture it and transport it with the Dothraki Horde with the Lannisters harassing you from the back. If you get rid of it you make your escape and hurt your enemy.

 

[Macka]

I don't really care what they follow or don't follow. As I said, I'm not a book reader. Well, I did read the first one and a bit of the 2nd but that was after Season 5 had already aired and I watched that. I just want a good show. I'm still liking it enough to keep going obviously, but those first three seasons were the absolute pinnacle of fantasy media for me. I used to write novels myself a bit and after seeing those I kind of felt like giving up because this show existed. That's how I feel about those seasons. Season 5 was really bad, but Season 6 was decent. Season 7 is ok so far but the writing just doesn't compare. I guess my problem is that I can see spectacle and battles and shit in movies all the time if I want. I can't get what Season 1-4 of Game of Thrones offered in a movie or really anywhere else. It's sad to see that part go.

I couldn't agree with this more. Those first four seasons were incredible, and most episodes since then have left a bad taste in my mouth. I loved the show back then for the human drama, the performances and the way so many plot threads were masterfully intertwined. I honestly don't understand how many of the people even got to Season 7 if this loot train scene can be their favourite of the entire show.

Because Dany isn't exactly a military genius and has almost no battle experience

I'm not a military genius either dude, and I'd know not to fly directly at the thing that fires big arrows.

The narrative was that they were right outside of King's Landing. Jamie got the update that the gold made it through the gate safely.

The alternative to destroying all the food would be to capture it and transport it with the Dothraki Horde with the Lannisters harassing you from the back. If you get rid of it you make your escape and hurt your enemy.

I know that the gold made it back. Whatever was in those wagons would be worth taking though, and as I said this was an assured victory. Drogon was literally turning soldiers to ash, and the Dothraki horde outnumbered the Lannisters on top of that. Hell, many of them seemed to just be running away. Who would be harassing from the back, exactly? It's just shitty writing born of wanting to show things blowing up in dragon's fire.

Have you rewatched Blackwater recently? It's peanuts compared to the former three

And that's no offense to Marshall, dude squeezed every penny out of that early budget

But in terms of giving a shit about what happens BoB >>>>>> Blackwater any day for me

I just finished rewatching Season 2 today! Blackwater isn't focused on the battle as much as any of these other episodes, and is all the better for it. The scenes between Cersei and Sansa, Cersei and Joffrey and everything Tyrion does makes it absolutely fantastic.

 

[Rixxan]

Eh, it was nice to look at, but it's far from one of my favourite scenes in the show. It's all just too fanservicey and full of TV cliches now.

Why would Dany fly Drogon in a straight line directly at the ballista after the first shot missed? Like...seriously? And then when Bronn does land a hit, she STILL decides its best to hover directly in front of it to burn it up, but not before Bronn is able to leap from it at the very last second of course. Alol.

Then there's Bronn saving Jaime by knocking him off of his horse an inch from shore, and suddenly they're in incredibly deep water.


And then there's the stupidity of Dany specifically targeting the wagons when this was an assured victory even without Drogon, and she had literally just been complaining that the Lannisters were taking all of the food in her previous scene. This setpiece was designed to look pretty, but it's all very dumb imo.

I didn't like Battle of the Bastards all that much either. Technically impressive, sure, but Ramsay had greatly overstayed his welcome at that point and Jon had literally

Spoiler

just returned from the dead

, so there wasn't much tension there. Doesn't help that Jon is a terribly flat character (and actor), who consistently makes the same mistakes over and over again and is celebrated for them.

Hardhome still reigns supreme as far as pure battle scenes go, and Blackwater absolutely blows everything else out of the water

Spoiler

when it comes to script and actually giving a shit about what happens.

Have you rewatched Blackwater recently? It's peanuts compared to the former three

And that's no offense to Marshall, dude squeezed every penny out of that early budget

But in terms of giving a shit about what happens BoB >>>>>> Blackwater any day for me

 

[Rayven]

It was gorgeous, but low stakes by GoT standards.

Spoiler

All your favorites survive and only red shirts die.

 

[LakeEarth]

It was gorgeous, but low stakes by GoT standards.

Spoiler

All your favorites survive and only red shirts die.

Hell, I don't even recall the established red shirt guy "Dickon" getting killed.

 

[The Real Abed]

The only thing that would have made it better would be if there was a real train in the set piece and they were also fighting on top of it as it was moving.

Come to think of it, are there any trains in Westeros at all? Does the technology exist?

Isn't it silly to name a set piece after something that doesn't even exist in that universe even as a figure of speech?!

DEEP THOUGHTS.

They don't even have gunpowder and cannon technology yet. Of course they wouldn't have steam trains. lol

But you're right. Did the concept of a choo choo train come first or second? I guess trains got their names from what we saw in the episode. A line of horses and wagons moving down a path.

 

[Jobbs]

It was a great battle scene, but it can't compare to BOTB. BOTB was an achievement like none I've seen before. It was better than any similar type of battle scene I've ever seen in a movie, much less a tv show

 

[ClosingADoor]

It was cool, but the multiple jumping out of the way of the fire and Bronn taking on the dragon on his own was a bit too much.