Ragnorok64
Member
Wait, is the audio version of this 50 minutes long? This isn't something I can just read during downtime then.
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"The First White President": Ta-Nehisi Coates on Trump
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A bunch of people have already responded to you, but surely you agree that being black is detrimental to one's hopes of becoming president, especially if you align yourself with the Republican party? Again, the odds are 44 to 1.
Or is your argument that, because he is an opportunist, Black Trump would not have coddled racists and the KKK, but would have rather pivoted completely to bleeding heart liberalism? Trump is certainly an opportunist, but he's been able to stick to one of the core tenants of his existence throughout his entire run, and subsequently, the presidency. Because as Coates put it in his article, the dude's been a racist his entire life.
Megalosaro
Banned
Name one country that wasn't founded on genocide, racism and violence.
capitalCORN
Member
Here comes the whataboutisms. Every nation has a past, and we can nitpick through each one if you like. But the history of North America is very self evident for everyone here.
Do you want to discuss other nations' foibles? Why not make a thread about it?
entremet
Member
True. But that's not the problem. The issue with America is we ignore our ideals when convenient. Look at the whole Confederate controversy. Instead of looking to make amends and listen to the descendants of slavery, there's a huge portion of the populace that basically says, "we don't care what you think". That's not owning up to it.
Contrast that with Germany and how they atoned for Nazism. Coates has written about this before too.
Megalosaro
Banned
This isn't a whataboutism. I just think it's odd that America gets singled out for this, when it's coded into the DNA of every country on the planet. Every single one of them. This isn't just an American problem. It's a human one.
capitalCORN
Member
And you can't with any validity say to understand the history all of the nations of Earth that have passed. The topic of the thread is obvious,
spindashing
Banned
Ah, didn't know a thread was made for this. Really great write-up, had my jaw dropping at certain points quoted in the thread already.
To be frank - it's embedded in American society in a way that doesn't exist elsewhere in advanced economies. Other countries have their own pernicious issues (class in the UK!), but the extent to which racism is embedded at the very heart of the USA, structurally at every level, is fairly unique. You're the only country that had to go war to end slavery, years after the other western countries did. You had segregation and a ban on interracial marriage until living memory. So much of usa politics is determined by race, and the legacy of race, compared to anywhere else.
(It's worth noting of course that one reason Britain is better off than the USA in this regard is because we essentially exported it to you with the slave trade - we don't bear the scars of our sins in the same way because of colonialism).
But this is about Americans tackling American problems. They may not be problems specific to us, but they are unique. You came in saying, "what about all the other countries?"
👀
Dear lord... Going to be sharing this.
LOL
AlimNassor
Banned
Coates is the GOAT. Seriously hes always right.
Name another country where the statement:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Is at the core of it's existence.
The problems with racism, violence, and inequality in the United States today is that it is a direct attack on what once made the United States something unique. An attempt, even if very misguided and slow moving, to deliver true equality to all people independent of race, religion, and status at birth. A true meritocracy.
The more we fail to live those ideals the more divided we become as a country and those divisions open wounds for social decay. The decline of the United States tracks in line with it's regression in the progress towards true equality.
An obligatory "fuck you" from me to any liberal or leftist willingly bought into this bullcrap. An obligatory "fuck yourself" to anyone that tried to put the blame on marginalized people as if it's our fault this fucking buffoon is in office.
I feel like Coates needed to have a sit down with Van Jones and drill this into his head.
I strongly want to believe this is what America stands for, but it would be lying to say it's true.
At the very least, we must acknowledge the many, many people in our history who have succeeded in undermining this value (with no consequence).
Muppet of a Man
Member
What he's saying is that white liberals and progressives dismiss white supremacy's legacy as only belonging to overt racists of the south and interior and white evangelicals. I think Coates is making an unfair generalization here, as most left wing whites are eager to tackle the issues of racism in addition to other related struggles, such as classism, out of which the rich historically pitted poor whites against blacks to create and maintain a sort of caste system which would indefinitely keep them (the rich) and their heirs wealthy, in power, and unchallenged by those who are poor, white, black, and otherwise. American history has been ugly exploition through and through, and rich whites have architected it out of race-and-class-based divide and conquer tactics.
As an outcome of being the lowest caste/rung on that ladder of wealth and power, black and native people have suffered by far the worst.
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hot fucking damn
Good stuff, the racist hate on Obama was incomprehensible. He was obviously intelligent and respected around the world, even by those who didn't like many of his policies like me. That Trump won on that stuff is extremely saddening. Can't even get angry because this is just something that makes you lose hope in people.
Eager enough to give reparations, though?
DarkJediKnight
Member
👀
Damn!!! Well written.
Are they? A thousand one thinkpieces have been written about how identity politics need to be abandon, but folks on the "left"
shiftplusone
Member
This is an essay from his new book, which I recommend everyone preorder if you like Coates writing
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0399590560/theatla05-20/
We Were Eight Years in Power: An American Tragedy
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0399590560/theatla05-20/
We Were Eight Years in Power: An American Tragedy
I haven't seen that. I've seen a bunch of liberals saying we need to stop focusing on identity politics, tho.
^^ yep.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Absolutely, at least my own thoughts on the matter.
While identity is a key factor, so is class. Both work together. Focusing on just one hampers progress imo (and researchers in this subject)
But what people saying that really mean is stop talking to minorities. Even though these are universal issues.
Muppet of a Man
Member
There is certainly a divide in the thinking on how things should be marketed, so as to win political power. But I would think that much of white liberals, especially progressives, have actual reform, not just lip service, on their agenda regarding systemic racism.
Remember, we can't do anything on a systemic level unless we have political power. There is certainly a segment of the liberal subpopulation who would downplay their own benefiting from systemic white supremacy, as it is a convenient way of justifying holding onto their own material wealth and power.
That I don't agree with. I guess it's really hard to balance the two since people go full in the one or the other.
Nope; focusing on race would being it all together. While people love to say race issues are unsellable to main street white america the truth is most governmental attempts to right racial wrongs poor whites benefit as much if not more then blacks.
Class is a byproduct of institutional racism in 2017.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Coates essay here spends a large amount of time carefully building the case that throughout American history, that hopeful sentiment has primarily been, and continues to be, lip service at best.
The last 8 months have shown if they do, it is so far down the list you need ropes and mining lights to find it. The editor at the Daily Kos heavy left site blamed POC when Arapio got pardoned. Like that was his first reflex, and it happens time and time again. Blaming minorities for bigotry systematic and otherwise
his prose really drives home the despair and humiliation of begging for help, only to be ignored in favor of convenient ignorance, or empathy with our most strict oppressors.
capitalCORN
Member
Some of you really need to reflect on the meaning of the term 'America's First White President'.
Right??? Dude is so talented.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Your right. Those in power on the liberal side are centrists who are "the rich liberal elite". They are primary benefactors of the historical divide and conquer tactics of the white American rich. But there are huge swaths of progressive white young people who don't have much power, relatively little wealth, and much debt. They would truly like to see material change in terms of systemic racism, but they don't have the levers of power to do it.
entremet
Member
Double speed on your podcast app.