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Bungie explains the Gauntlet Incident

Strakt

Member
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46256

Too Close For Comfort

Earlier this week, we were made aware that a graphical element on one of Destiny 2’s armor pieces bore close resemblance to an internet meme that has been subsequently repurposed to represent hate and intolerance. This was completely unintentional. As an immediate response, we extended our planned maintenance window to remove the element from the armor piece itself, and will be following up next week with another patch to remove the same element from the UI icon and preview screens, scrubbing it from the game altogether.

Like many of you, we aren’t satisfied with that reaction alone. As the team was busy patching the game, others were already asking the important questions – the very same questions we know many of you are asking now. Questions like these…

How did it happen?
The design in question was initially created as part of gear foundry explorations in June of 2015. Graphic designers routinely reference real world art, iconography, typeface, and other design elements to inform the choices they make. In this case, some of the reference imagery featured the simple mirrored chevron shapes found in the finished piece. Some graphic design that belongs to sports teams provided some inspiration as well, along with some primitive shapes and chevrons that were used to permeate our Guardian class iconography.

How did we miss this content in development?
Although the design wasn’t emulative of the meme in question, the armor piece was eventually flagged by another team responsible for reviewing content for cultural, geographical, and other sensitive issues. Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous “kek” internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

What steps are we taking to ensure that this won’t happen again?

We are digging in to determine how we can more deeply vet our game content to shield us, and our community, from inappropriate imagery. Though we are still investigating our creative process in full, we know there was no degree of malicious intent from anyone on our team. That said, we do recognize that the design in question is close enough to warrant removal from the game.

We want everyone to know their identity is welcome in our studio and in the worlds we create. This isn’t merely a platitude, but an official pillar we hold ourselves, and our work to. It is also a clarion call for the type of people we want to bring into our studio to help us make better games.

We aren’t asking you for the benefit of the doubt. We know we are judged by our actions. We want to thank the members of our community, and the press, for bringing this matter to our attention. We will always strive to make all players feel welcome in our worlds, to promote positive experiences, and to portray a bright and hopeful world in Destiny 2, and in every game world we create.
 

xkramz

Member
Nice they giving an explanation. Very professional of bungie to do so. No biggie, shit happens 💚


Edit: hahahah my cats name is biggie and my phone auto corrected bungie with biggie
 
Nice they giving an explanation. Very professional of biggie to do so. No biggie, shit happens 💚

Who's biggie? :p /s

But anyways I agree completely. I am glad they responded quickly and in so much detail, without any room given for groups who identify themselves with the symbol to misinterpret things and believe they have some kind of foothold here.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Curious to see if any of this will satisfy the folks who are 100% convinced it had to be an intentional allusion/promotion of white supremacy at the design level.
 

koss424

Member
For being created in 2015 it's remarkably similar to the 4chan meme and flag that first appeared in late 2016.
 

1upsuper

Member
Nice they giving an explanation. Very professional of biggie to do so. No biggie, shit happens 💚

Including misanthropic, hateful iconography is a "biggie," intentional or not. The apology does not erase this fact, however much it redresses the issue.
 

Instro

Member
I wasn't aware that kek had been co-opted in such a way. How/why did that happen? Like wasn't it just a lol equivalent?
 

Fisty

Member
I can understand their missing it in review, but there is no fucking way the original artist didn't know what he/she was doing
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I can understand their missing it in review, but there is no fucking way the original artist didn't know what he/she was doing

Even if it was created a year before the hate-related flag seems to have become a thing?
 
I wasn't aware that kek had been co-opted in such a way. How/why did that happen? Like wasn't it just a lol equivalent?

It's not the actual word "kek," but rather that /pol/ has developed a meme around a fictitious white supremacist country called "Kekistan" that has a flag that resembles the Nazi flag and the Destiny armor piece.
 

psyfi

Banned
I wasn't aware that kek had been co-opted in such a way. How/why did that happen? Like wasn't it just a lol equivalent?
I've never heard kek used in any other context than from the mouths of misogynists and white supremacists. How have you heard it used?
 

Catphish

Member
Including misanthropic, hateful iconography is a "biggie," intentional or not. The apology does not erase this fact, however much it redresses the issue.
Did you read the explanation? They had no idea that it had been appropriated by another group and carried an alternate meaning.

So, to the best of their knowledge, they had no idea that it was misanthropic or hateful.

If someone makes an honest mistake and makes an honest effort to make sure it doesn't happen again, forgiveness is the standard reaction.

No biggie.
 

TheYanger

Member
Including misanthropic, hateful iconography is a "biggie," intentional or not. The apology does not erase this fact, however much it redresses the issue.

I mean, we're talking about something that even most people on these forums didn't know was a thing until it came up. It really doesn't surprise me that they didn't catch it. There is a big difference between stumbling upon a similar design, without knowing that it's even bad (when most of the world also doesn't know it's bad), and doing something intentionally or that everyone should obviously know (like a swastika or something).

It wouldn't surprise me if someone put it in as a reference, knowing full well, but Bungie says that didn't happen and it seems fair enough to take that at face value in this case. Again, we're talking about a symbol/color combination that wouldn't even raise an eyebrow for almost the entire population of the planet.

I've never heard kek used in any other context than from the mouths of misogynists and white supremacists. How have you heard it used?
Kek is LITERALLY 'lol' in world of warcraft when speaking to the other faction (who you can't normally communicate with). It's 100% co-opted from that, that's where it originated. That's all it has meant for over 13 years until very recently.
 

1upsuper

Member
Did you read the explanation? They had no idea that it had been appropriated by another group and carried an alternate meaning.

So, to the best of their knowledge, they had no idea that it was misanthropic or hateful.

If someone makes an honest mistake and makes an honest effort to make sure it doesn't happen again, forgiveness is the standard reaction.

No biggie.

I agree. They apologized and made good on their mistake. But this mistake was, however unintentional, still a big deal, IMO.
 

Snagret

Member
I wasn't aware that kek had been co-opted in such a way. How/why did that happen? Like wasn't it just a lol equivalent?
They weren't either, apparently. I remember it turning rotten during the election cycle, "kek" got swept up into the white supremacy vortex along with Matt Furie's frog.
 

Plum

Member
Including misanthropic, hateful iconography is a "biggie," intentional or not. The apology does not erase this fact, however much it redresses the issue.

So they're still at fault despite doing literally everything right in dealing with a situation such at this?
 

1upsuper

Member
So they're still at fault despite doing literally everything right in dealing with a situation such at this?

I should have been more clear in my original post. My apologies. I'm not saying they're at fault. I'm just uncomfortable with people saying it's no biggie when stuff like this is pretty serious. It was clearly an accident, they explained themselves, and made good. But I still think the whole ordeal is serious.
 
I've never heard kek used in any other context than from the mouths of misogynists and white supremacists. How have you heard it used?
"Top kek"

Me and my friends used it all the time when we played Dota. I had no idea at all it's used by white groups until this issue with the armor in Destiny 2.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
So an artist dreamed up a hate symbol almost identically a year before it existed. Right.

So what you are saying is no facts matter and there is literally nothing anyone can say to convince you that this actually is a coincidence. A relatively simple design being created in 2015 that is similar to a design that (from what everything I can read seems to agree on) didn't come about until 2016 is still somehow intentionally a reference to that design? How does that make sense?
 

Fularu

Banned
I've never heard kek used in any other context than from the mouths of misogynists and white supremacists. How have you heard it used?

KEK is what alliance sees when a horde player uses LOL

A horde player sees BUR when an alliance player says LOL
 

TheYanger

Member
So an artist dreamed up a hate symbol almost identically a year before it existed. Right.

It's not 'almost identical' though, it has green (a different shade of it, at that), and it has a chevron and a line that very much look like a K. it doesn't even have a stylized E like the Kekistan flag, it has a stylized set of lines where the VOID creates the lines. Don't get me wrong, it's similar and they're right to remove it, but don't pretend it's 'almost identical' when it's not. It's well within the margin of artistic license. It's also within the realm that it could've been intentional, again, given that it could easily be either way, Bungie claims they investigated it so I have no major reason to doubt their claim.
 

psyfi

Banned
"Top kek"

Me and my friends used it all the time when we played Dota. I had no idea at all it's used by white groups until this issue with the armor in Destiny 2.
If you spend any time on twitter you'll see a racist with an anime avatar spamming it.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous “kek” internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

This is what I expected. I had never even heard of kek being anything other than a World of Warcraft meme before the other thread blew up.
 

TheYanger

Member
If you spend any time on twitter you'll see a racist with an anime avatar spamming it.

Right, but that's also from last year. If you've spent any time online gaming in the preceding 13 years, it's just been 'lol'

We get it, you didn't know it wasa a thing, but it was, and not a small one. Hell I was watching Teens React to Life is Strange just today and Max texted 'kek' in the game and they were talking about how it was such old slang. (Also, they didn't know where it originated from, as I would not expect a teenager to at this point).
 

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
Curious to see if any of this will satisfy the folks who are 100% convinced it had to be an intentional allusion/promotion of white supremacy at the design level.

It won't, because we are already seeing a few comments in this thread suggesting so.

I knew their response would be their response. We all take inspiration from random shit around the world we live in. Color combinations, symbols, lettering/font, etc. If you are browsing images for days on end using tags like "green black white flag/pattern/symbol/etc", you're bound to come across something.

Shit happens. Bungie acknowledged it, are being as transparent as possible, and working to fix it. Done.
 

Fisty

Member
Or hate symbols are derived from stuff having other meanings? I never heard the usage of kek in a negative context before recently.

I'm not blaming Bungie for missing it, I'm blaming the artist that did it.

kek-09-12-17-1-1200x666.jpg


Kek.jpg.pagespeed.ce.wB80d588KO.jpg
 

Plum

Member
I should have been more clear in my original post. My apologies. I'm not saying they're at fault. I'm just uncomfortable with people saying it's no biggie when stuff like this is pretty serious. It was clearly an accident, they explained themselves, and made good. But I still think the whole ordeal is serious.

I'm confused as to what's so serious here? That developers can unintentionally put incredibly obscure alt-right symbols into their games? How is that such a serious issue?
 
So an artist dreamed up a hate symbol almost identically a year before it existed. Right.

professionaloutrage.gif


Dude the word 'kek' came from world of warcraft for OVER A DECADE. Most of us HERE didnt even know it had been co-opted by white supremacists. I can easily believe that an artist from Bungie simply used it as a tongue in cheek reference to WoW considering Destiny is an MMO-lite, and WoW is the biggest MMO of all time. It is a perfectly plausible explanation. Stop trying so damn hard to see the worst in everyone.

If they they have early-build timestamped assets that show this symbol from 2015, a year before it became taboo, would that convince you? Probably not.
 

careksims

Member
Or hate symbols are derived from stuff having other meanings? I never heard the usage of kek in a negative context before recently.

Same here. I always see it as a laughing thing. I didn't even know it was some negative thing til there was a thread about it on Gaf. I will always think of it as a humorous word.
 

TheYanger

Member
I'm not blaming Bungie for missing it, I'm blaming the artist that did it.

kek-09-12-17-1-1200x666.jpg


Kek.jpg.pagespeed.ce.wB80d588KO.jpg

Again, those are similar, but not THAT similar.

|>| |<| vs a literal K and a backwards K, and the lines in the center are 4 instead of 3.

One is a chevron with 2 lines around it, one is a letter. One is an E, the other is ..nothing |||| only makes a stylized E if you stare at the void between the lines. Is it really that hard for you to accept that it could've possibly been an unfortunate coincidence?
 
I've never heard kek used in any other context than from the mouths of misogynists and white supremacists. How have you heard it used?

I've seen it multiple times on GAF over the years in the context of laughing at something. I had no idea it had negative connotations until recently.
 
I cannot imagine this was a coincidence, so I'm not sure I buy this. Still a good response.

Also kekekeke was for Zerg rushes in Starcraft before WoW
 
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