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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Not sure what you mean here, I have two modes for black level settings - low or high. When on high, it's introduces grey-ish/ washed out picture with slightly visible vertical banding.
Are you on PS4 pro? What screen settings to you have, auto?
DangerMouse
Member
Oh man, that MiBox is an Android streamer and it doesn't include Amazon Video like built-in Android TV does? Man, that's weird.
I mainly ended up using the built-in Android TV app since in the beginning it was seemingly the most often updated for me, like when they added UHD HDR.
Hmm. Can I suggest that you connect your ps4 (pro?) to the TV just to test out? Try the following settings:
PS4 Video Settings
RGB Range: Limited
Everything else on Auto
TV Settings
Input Mode : Game Console (to open this menu, hold and press the button between Netflix and Amazon on remote)
Picture Mode : HDR Game
Color : 48
Color Temperature : W46
Dynamic Contrast : Low
Color Gamut : Extended
Black Level : Low
General -> HDMI DEEP ULTRA -> On
If this does not work I don't know mate
EDIT:
Actually one more question, what is your viewing environment like? What is the ambient like light?
Reason I ask is most mastering is done in a low light/no light environment. Try the above settings with no lights on/little ambient light. Unfortunately unlike SDR, there is no way to artificially increase the brightness of HDR content (dynamic contrast but yuck). OLEDS already struggle to replicate HDR content mastered beyond 1000 nits. That 1000 nits will look completely different in a dark room vs a well lit room. Until they have HDR modes (like HLG) that take into account ambient light, its best to mimic the viewing environment that the content was mastered in.
Great post, will check and test like you suggested, I'll test more tomorrow, must go to bed now dead tired
(2 am swedish time). Much appreciated, I'll get back to you.MosquitoSmasher
Member
Have Netflix ever given the reason why their app on Xbox One just can't disable HDR and enable when needed? The app on my B6 TV does it no problem, so why does the app on Xbox act so weird with HDR?
I find it quite annoying too because at times I have no idea what to watch and I might end up with a non HDR movie or show and to always have to manually disable it in the Xbox settings is bs.
I find it quite annoying too because at times I have no idea what to watch and I might end up with a non HDR movie or show and to always have to manually disable it in the Xbox settings is bs.
Stupid right? Not only that, but it's not available on the Play Store for my device, even though it's an "official" Android TV. HBO GO also isn't supported whereas it's supported on the Shield. I can't even Chromecast HBO to my MiBox whereas I can Cast it to my Vizio TV or a regular Chromecast just fine. I hate Google sometimes.
Also, I didn't realize you were talking about an AndroidTV. I thought we were talking about LG WebOS haha
DangerMouse
Member
Amazon doesn't want to put their app on the Play store. The only devices that get it are from manufacturers that they have individual deals with (like Sony and Nvidia).
I believe at one point, someone extracted the Amazon Video apk from a Sony TV and got it working on other Android TV devices, but Amazon got smart to it and started blocking non-Sony devices from using it.
I think I got it to work by taking the apk from a tablet and putting it on as well. Looks and runs like shit though.
DangerMouse
Member
Ah.
Change that setting which goes from wireless to wired.
Week 4 results of Rtings OLED burn-in test are not pretty
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled
Seems like 500 hours is enough for burn-in to become clearly visible to the naked eye with the light level set at 60.
Even the test where they run the logo for 2 hours on then 3.5 hours off has visible burn-in, though less obvious.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled
Seems like 500 hours is enough for burn-in to become clearly visible to the naked eye with the light level set at 60.
Even the test where they run the logo for 2 hours on then 3.5 hours off has visible burn-in, though less obvious.
Maybe something like the users in the thread below are experiencing?
https://www.avforums.com/threads/netflix-varying-resolution-issues.2120393/
I am experiencing this problem. The resolution of videos on Netflix swings wildly and rarely stays at the highest resolution very long before dropping down to 480p. It didnt do this until maybe a week into September.
GinoFelino
Member
Had the same issue wired on a C7
There are reported issues of Netflix playback, I have this problem sometimes as well (LG Netflix app). The resolution sometimes drops to 480p and makes the picture blurry. But it's seems to be a problems spread across other TV labels also, this should be a problem on the Netflix side.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
Have a question about HDMI. If I put the Input to the enhanced format, and all sources come from the AVR 1080i, 1080p, 4k, HDR etc. is there any downside of this?
If not, why aren't all HDMI inputs on enhanced by default.
If not, why aren't all HDMI inputs on enhanced by default.
Right now I'm looking at the 55 inch LG B7 OLED, but I have a question about subtitle related image retention.
Several years ago I purchased a 51 inch Samsung F5300 plasma screen and, while I appreciated the picture quality, it made watching anything subtitled into English incredibly difficult. As I watched a film, retention from the subtitles would accumulate at the bottom of the screen until, after about 10-15 minutes, I had a dark bar of retained text marring the image. At the time, I couldn't tell if this was due to a fault with the panel itself, the settings I'd selected, or if plasma was just inherently incapable of reliably displaying subtitles. In the end, I returned the plasma for an LED.
Since OLED is susceptible to image retention, I was wondering if anyone who has had experience with subtitled content could comment on my concerns.
Several years ago I purchased a 51 inch Samsung F5300 plasma screen and, while I appreciated the picture quality, it made watching anything subtitled into English incredibly difficult. As I watched a film, retention from the subtitles would accumulate at the bottom of the screen until, after about 10-15 minutes, I had a dark bar of retained text marring the image. At the time, I couldn't tell if this was due to a fault with the panel itself, the settings I'd selected, or if plasma was just inherently incapable of reliably displaying subtitles. In the end, I returned the plasma for an LED.
Since OLED is susceptible to image retention, I was wondering if anyone who has had experience with subtitled content could comment on my concerns.
This has been my experience as well. I got a new router and it does a better job on my B7 as far as keeping at 4K. The consoles are still more stable at staying at high resolution than the LG TVs are, sadly, but with my new router it's passable.
Sucks because you lose Dolby Vision if you use PS4/XB1S to stream your HDR, and going from DV to HDR10 is a noticeable downgrade on these sets.
Kudo
Member
I've been watching subtitled content for week now with few hours a day at least and none of that happens.
I used to have Panasonic Plasma before too which got retention from subtitles, though I'll say it didn't use to when I got it, but later in the years image retention became a huge problem with it.
Doubt this kind of image retention happens with OLED, but I can only give definitive answer in few years.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I have no idea at how many hours I'm at now on this TV, I've had it since June 15th this year. But so far no permanent burn in. Jesus, thank god too. This does sound a bit worrying though.
However they are talking about static logos and while a lot of games have static things, it's not like we play these games 24/7. So do we have reason to worry? Also the games I play so far, their HUD elements don't even give IR.
Insane Metal
Member
IMO those results are pretty great for OLED. I don't think anyone uses the same content for 20h a day for weeks?
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Oh thats what it comes down to? No way anyone uses their TV for that much. Pretty much impossible.
And in between my gaming sessions I always put the TV either off or on a screen saver.
HDMI 2.1 and HDR10+ should be the main talking points of CES 2018 alongside the obvious new OLED/LCD TVs and UHD Blu Ray players which will hopefully support all these HDR formats.
Beer Monkey
Member
Hoping to see more OLED sets with BFI and even lower latency.
Crowza
Member
As someone who owned a discounted OLED set that had permanent burn-in when I bought it (it was returned after a week), I can say this isn't a concern. I watch sub-titles with everything. When retention occurs, it's very hard to notice unless a specific color is displayed in the area with the retention (the burn-in simply changes the overall shade of the pixel). OLED's burn-in and retention is... subtle.
So, OLED is different in regards to the retention issues of a Plasma. As an example, I watched several demo reels on the OLED on the exact set that I bought ... In the store, I did not notice the permanent burn-in or I would have never purchased the set.
Hard to explain.. but OLED burn-in is real. It's not as bad as Plasma, but once you notice it you can never unnoticed it (although you can't always see it).
GinoFelino
Member
Hoping to see big HDR/motion improvements for OLED, the death of edge-lit LCDs and the peace of mind HDMI 2.1 will provide.
I'd love to see VRR/Freesync 2 support become standard for higher-end HDMI 2.1 TVs.
Tragicomedy
Member
Trying to decide between the X900E or the X930E. I've gone back and forth several times. Significant price difference to the point I could go 65" even with the 900.
Perceived downsides: 1)slower processor to the point I've read even changing the volume in HDR content feels laggy; 2) possible image retention and I'll be gaming on it: 3) the 930 is brighter and apparently will get Dolby Vision in the future.
Main uses will be streaming, PS4 Pro, and possibly buying a UHD player. Anyone have either set and some feedback? I've considered an LG but not sold on the price and it will be in a bright room.
Perceived downsides: 1)slower processor to the point I've read even changing the volume in HDR content feels laggy; 2) possible image retention and I'll be gaming on it: 3) the 930 is brighter and apparently will get Dolby Vision in the future.
Main uses will be streaming, PS4 Pro, and possibly buying a UHD player. Anyone have either set and some feedback? I've considered an LG but not sold on the price and it will be in a bright room.
I expect LG to showcase OLED panels between 27-43 inches. Very confident that 4k@120hz will be a thing for 2018 models. VRR won't be implemented until AMD launches Navi. Sony and Panasonic double down on OLED.
Panel improvements: 850-1000 nits and sub 17ms input lag
The image retention thing is nothing to be concerned about. I've never seen it and, if you look at the actual numbers rtings measured, it's negligible. I would not factor this into my decision.
GinoFelino
Member
The 930 has the same processor, apparently. Just a different image processing chipset. Also, the 65" version of the 900 has image uniformity issues.
And yeah, the image retention thing is a bunch of nothing
4k@120 is a given, I'd say. Why couldn't vrr be a thing before Navi? Freesync 2 is a shoe-in if they want it to be, right?
I expect LG to implement more burn-in countermeasures, as well
People seem to generally believe that the burn-in effect with OLED is simply a function of the cumulative wear on the pixels. Whether you play 24/7 or not doesn't matter, it's the total number of hours you clock with that static logo on screen.
It is unclear how much variability there is between sets or whether the 2016 LG OLEDs are similar to other OLEDs, but if you think their test is representative, then it seems like using the same logo for 100-200 hours will produce some visible burn-in, but subtle and hard to see. 500 hours with the same logo creates burn-in that is easily visible on a solid color screen. This is pretty consistent with the anecdotal evidence from people on AVSForum who go burn-in on their sets from watching CNN a few hours a day.
So far my takeaways are that you should definitely avoid using an OLED as a PC monitor, as you would probably get burn-in from the taskbar with normal use. I would probably hesitate to use one if you are someone who plays the same games for hundreds of hours.
Tragicomedy
Member
Thanks! Wife just nixed the 65" idea when I showed her a side-by-side comparison with our current 47" (which she already thinks is too large). So that pretty much makes the 900E the choice.
Gorocketcat
Member
Has anyone been able to confirm this? I'd test myself, but have been gone all weekend.
Somebody here or an avs forum posted comparison shots, and the banding indeed was gone when pro was set to 420.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
*yawn*
a torture test causes some image retention that's visible on uniform color screens.
if you're all CNN, or only going to play one game for 1000 hours, maybe worth being careful. if you watch a large variety of content, it's probably no issue at all.
and even if there is mild mild retention, if you can't see it in regular content? does it even matter? (same reason mild uniformity issues on the OLED panels are enough to dethrone them)
I guess I could be a general use burn in tester here for the 2017 OLED. I have a B7. My usage is probably 50 percent streaming, 40 percent games, and 10 percent web browsing (it's hooked up to my gaming PC)
So far, I'm around 500 hours. Haven't even seen any IR, let alone BI. I check a red test pattern about once a week out of curiosity.
I play a ton of Overwatch and Destiny 2 though, so we'll see how the static Hud holds up. We watch a bunch of content in between game sessions though.
Edit: I'm also at 35 OLED light and 90 contrast. HDR I'm at 100 and 100 though.
So far, I'm around 500 hours. Haven't even seen any IR, let alone BI. I check a red test pattern about once a week out of curiosity.
I play a ton of Overwatch and Destiny 2 though, so we'll see how the static Hud holds up. We watch a bunch of content in between game sessions though.
Edit: I'm also at 35 OLED light and 90 contrast. HDR I'm at 100 and 100 though.
holygeesus
Banned
I've had my OLED for 16 months now and used it for everything, including subtitled films, films with widescreen bars, 4:3 bars, watched cricket all day with on-screen logos, used it as a PC monitor, with varying light settings, including maxed out OLED light for a time, and have no sign of burn-in.
Of course pixels will wear - it has always been the case with OLED technology, but unless you are watching the same footage for 22 hours a day, you should be OK. Technology does deteriorate over time - I hate to break it to you all - plasmas were the same, LCD backlights wear out - that is life.
The rtings test is ridiculous - you might as well have a guy hit it with a sledgehammer and say it will break. Of course stressing a TV is going to damage it - just like any abuse of tech. Just use your OLED as you would any TV, don't stress about it, and you will be fine. Jeez.
Of course pixels will wear - it has always been the case with OLED technology, but unless you are watching the same footage for 22 hours a day, you should be OK. Technology does deteriorate over time - I hate to break it to you all - plasmas were the same, LCD backlights wear out - that is life.
The rtings test is ridiculous - you might as well have a guy hit it with a sledgehammer and say it will break. Of course stressing a TV is going to damage it - just like any abuse of tech. Just use your OLED as you would any TV, don't stress about it, and you will be fine. Jeez.
Gorocketcat
Member
That's awesome.
So, does putting the tv in pc mode solve most of the gaming HDR issues? Basically the super dim image?
holygeesus
Banned
Ok it's about as much use to a consumer as those drop-tests for phones. Nobody uses a TV like they do in their test, unless they are shut-ins who sleep for 2 hours a day and just watch the same looping video over and over, so what is the point?
But what about people like kyoufu who got burn in on logos that were displayed for a very short time?
If I had to guess I'd say some panels have a default in comp cycles, but who knows.
Edit: for people who haven't followed this thread. That poster iirc got Netflix logo burned in, from an app that has a screensaver, on a tv that has a screen saver, and the logo in question only appears when browsing Netflix on the built in app.
Not really though, because TV manufacturers put these panels to the test during the design process in similar ways. If it can take 500 hours of abuse, then chances are it's going to be decent enough for consumers. If it could only take 100 hours, then it'd be more alarming.
Drop tests are very useful for consumers because, for example, Apple states the iPhone 8 is made of the most durable glass ever in a smartphone, but drop tests show that if you drop it from waist height chances are it'll break.
Although it sounds like you have made your decision I recommend you read my post from a few days ago on this thread. I did a full run down on the differences as I have owned both.
And in a nutshell, the 930 has the 900 beat in almost every way. And in my opinion worth the price hike.
holygeesus
Banned
I'd rather they spend their time investigating why some people are getting apparent burn-in under normal use (such as yourself right?). Stress-tests just seem like a waste of energy, literally.
A stress test is a means of replicating long term usage - in the short term - so that you can give people reasonable answers on what might be concerns to look out for before they actually become concerns.
Theres definitely value in it, even not being a 1:1 representation of actual usage. If it convinces a person to turn an 8 hour game session into two 4 hour sessions with a break in the middle that ultimately reduces permanent burn in by a not insignificant degree, it'll do some good. At the very least, its getting more data into peoples minds to make their own decisions with.