Support NeoGAF

[LordOfLore]

Link.

It's time to go back to Mordor.

Following up the massive success of 2014's Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Monolith Productions has returned to the world of Tolkien with Shadow of War, a new action-role playing adventure which puts the player back in the boots of the rugged ranger of Gondor, Talion.

Monolith's vp of creative, Michael de Plater, was a guest on the most recent Donkey Con Artists podcast, hosted by The Hollywood Reporter's Patrick Shanley, to discuss the new features in the upcoming sequel, including new additions to the award-winning "Nemesis System" from the first game as well as an expanded world, new enemies and the debut of the "recruitment system."

When asked about new features to the Nemesis System, de Plater emphasized the importance of focusing on what made the first game such a success. "That’s really been the primary focus for us over the past three years," he said. "Just generally improving the number, the quality and the emotional power of the stories we create. Making you really love to hate these enemies. There’s four times the content around making these enemies varied with different personalities and bringing these villains to life."

Just making the system bigger was not enough, however, as the team also brought in new features to the system. "In addition to that, we’ve also added the ability to recruit followers by using the ring of power. Now you have all these wonderful, colorful characters on your side as part of your army," explained de Plater. "You sometimes really love these guys when they saved you in battle and you’ve really created the ultimate enemy if they’ve betrayed you."

Also added are different tribes of Orcs, each with their own unique habits, cultures and personalities. This feature opened the door for perhaps the biggest update of all: "We’ve added fortresses, so we now have these epic battles along the lines of Helm’s Deep or the Siege of Minas Tirith," de Plater said. "You’ve got these massive battles where it all comes together where you’re bringing your personal followers who you’ve built up a relationship with and you’re facing off against these bitter enemies that you’ve built up these stories with, all escalating to these glorious boss fights with these overlords of various fortresses."

De Plater explained that Shadow of War is more than three times the size of its predecessor, with a much wider variety of locales. "They're affected by the Nemesis System as well," he said. "If in my game it's controlled by the Feral Tribe it will be much different than if in your game it is controlled by the Terror Tribe."

While the game is a single-player experience, Shadow of War will offer a variation of multiplayer, social gaming, as well. "We don't have synchronous multiplayer, but what we do have is that, because your Orcs, fortresses and followers are unique to your world, we want players to be able to share that," said de Plater. "You made this incredible cool and challenging fortress, so we wanted players to be able to challenge themselves to try and conquer your fortress."

One other new addition to the game are "loot boxes," a term for collectible items, usually random and cosmetic, that can be purchased in the game. The inclusion of such micro-transactions in console games (they have been included in mobile games for years) is a source of contention among many gamers.

"The big thing for us is when we sell the game, we [want it it] to be so much bigger and expansive than Shadow of Mordor," de Plater said when asked of Shadow of War's inclusion of loot boxes. "We want people to be playing this game for a long, long time. In addition to that, one of our key features is almost an infinite variety of Orcs and enemies you can create. The ability to go to a market and play with that system and purchase additional Orcs like that felt like a really good fit. You can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold, as well."

Shadow of War is available for Xbox One, Playstation 4 and PC on Oct. 10.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

"We want people to be playing this game for a long, long time. In addition to that, one of our key features is almost an infinite variety of Orcs and enemies you can create. The ability to go to a market and play with that system and purchase additional Orcs like that felt like a really good fit. You can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold, as well."

I rather just play the game and FIND the orcs myself thank you very much than to find them in boxes

 

[E_Darkness]

How many loot boxes would they consider for this expansion?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

The title made me think that they would have a big new land mass added to middle-earth as post release, and the "large" DLC is what would justify the loot boxes.

 

[JPS Kai]

I rather just play the game and FIND the orcs myself thank you very much than to find them in boxes

But you can. There was no shortage of Epic and Legendary orcs in the hands-on.

 

[Bombless]

They're really doubling down on those lootboxes, eh?

 

[Marcel]

Gondor calls for loot boxes.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Ill believe it when i see it. Mordor in the last game was largely unremarkable with not 1 location that stood out

 

[Cerium]

Is that a threat?

 

[newtypepilot]

expansion as in expanding new ways to take your money.

 

[matrix-cat]

Wasn't the original a pretty big game to begin with; did people actually ask for the sequel to be four times bigger? Is this the "today's games are so big they can't not have loot boxes" argument in action? Publishers decide to make a game of such ludicrous scope and budget that they have to rely on that loot box whale money to turn a profit?

 

[Lanrutcon]

I can't wait to see what other bits of lore they manhandle into having tits.

 

[SolidChamp]

Tolkien must be rolling in his loot box.

 

[Curious Puppy]

The game may very well be great but I feel like I have a moral obligation to not give them a dime over the obscene loot box shit. I don't care how many games have them now, its been disgusting ever since its been introduced. Just utterly transparent greed and attempts to manipulate paying customers.

 

[Marcel]

"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"

 

[SolidChamp]

The game may very well be great but I feel like I have a moral obligation to not give them a dime over the obscene loot box shit. I don't care how many games have them now, its been disgusting ever since its been introduced. Just utterly transparent greed and attempts to manipulate paying customers.

Which game is really known for starting the trend?

"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"

Shit, this is perfect. Someone needs to tweet this to the dev. Lol

 

[Curious Puppy]

Which game is really known for starting the trend?

Overwatch is the first game I remember seeing it in but it very possibly could have been introduced earlier.

 

[SpaceWolf]

"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"

Brilliant.

 

[Audioboxer]

Overwatch is the first game I remember seeing it in but it very possibly could have been introduced earlier.

Valve were pretty instrumental in making the world go loot box crazy. I stopped playing TF2 when they infested it beyond belief.

"The big thing for us is when we sell the game, we [want it it] to be so much bigger and expansive than Shadow of Mordor," de Plater said when asked of Shadow of War's inclusion of loot boxes. "We want people to be playing this game for a long, long time. In addition to that, one of our key features is almost an infinite variety of Orcs and enemies you can create. The ability to go to a market and play with that system and purchase additional Orcs like that felt like a really good fit. You can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold, as well."

A Warner Brothers PR response.

 

[Drackhorn]

In a new area called Lootboxia.

 

[Marcel]

Shit, this is perfect. Someone needs to tweet this to the dev. Lol

lol I'm sure the developers already know they're full of WB-mandated shit by now.

 

[Murman]

"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"

We need Gandalf in the gaming industry!

 

[NewDust]

That underground Middle-Earth Orc slave trade trade market...

 

[Egida]

"We want people to be playing this game for a long, long time. In addition to that, one of our key features is almost an infinite variety of Orcs and enemies you can create. The ability to go to a market and play with that system and purchase additional Orcs like that felt like a really good fit. You can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold, as well."

So it has come to this. Not even trying to save face. Sickening.

 

[Nokterian]

Gondor calls for loot boxes.

 

[Kumorin]

This “we want you to play this game forever” is a key platform of modern game design that I don’t really jive with but I’m not sure why people are so upset about “loot boxes?” and I’d like to understand.

There’s no competitive online benefit to buying more orcs, yes? And you can earn them in game by playing the game you spent your initial investment to engage with. If you like the game, it would figure, bonus orcs or no, you’d want to keep playing to unlock more. How is this different than unlockables in a WWE game or a fighting game or loot grinding in Destiny? What part of having some portion of an “infinite” variety locked behind “loot boxes” makes the game lesser?

 

[WheelHoss1]

Let's talk nothing but loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

We can do better

 

[CHC]

De Plater explained that Shadow of War is more than three times the size of its predecessor, with a much wider variety of locales.

This is definitely what I wanted to hear. Was my chief complaint about the other game (along with boss fights), which was otherwise pretty damn good.

Also, the loot box griping.... time and place. This is really not about that, other than the single offhanded remark about "buying" orcs, which you're not required to do.

 

[NewDust]

Let's talk about loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

WB can do better

Ftfy

 

[Audioboxer]

Let's talk nothing but loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

We can do better

It's almost as if the publishers and devs can do better too! Loot boxes were part of this interview.

 

[Egida]

Let's talk nothing but loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

We can do better

How can we not, when it's so blatanly shameful?

 

[WheelHoss1]

Ftfy

Nah man

Even id it's true it's still a boring as fuck discussion

Also doesn't another huge AAA sequel that just cane out have pretty much the same thing? And it's a competitive multiplayer game to boot (among other things)

 

[tuxfool]

Let's talk nothing but loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

We can do better

If they remove loot boxes, stop talking about loot boxes, then we can talk about other stuff.

 

[WheelHoss1]

If they remove loot boxes, then we can talk about other stuff.

But we did that for 10 pages in my thread and it went nowhere

What about the expansions? Honestly they sound amazing

I thought nothing could keep me away from revisiting DD in 1440p but this will

 

[tuxfool]

But we did that for 10 pages in my thread and it went nowhere

Threads have to go places?

They're talking about loot boxes shit in the post quoted in the OT. You're telling people not to discuss that?

 

[AndersK]

I wonder if they'll have sexy outfits for Shelob in them there boxes?

Might as well go for broke now.

 

[Audioboxer]

But we did that for 10 pages in my thread and it went nowhere

What about the expansions? Honestly they sound amazing

I thought nothing could keep me away from revisiting DD in 1440p but this will

They do, but gamers care even more about loved franchises because often what happens is an otherwise excellent game gets infested with over the top F2P elements. It's frustrating some devs and pubs can't just allow really good games to stand on their own merit, review well and sell millions. Like every WB game this will have paid DLC to support it longterm.

Up next is Rocksteady and Batman filled with loot boxes. Or whatever they're working on.

 

[matrix-cat]

If they remove loot boxes, stop talking about loot boxes, then we can talk about other stuff.

Yep, simple as that.

I wonder if they'll have sexy outfits for Shelob in them there boxes?

Might as well go for broke now.

There might be. You'll have to buy them to find out; that's the thrill of the loot box!

 

[Maximo]

Let's talk nothing but loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

We can do better

Won't somebody please think of the lootboxes!

 

[SpaceWolf]

Let's talk nothing but loot boxes again for ten pages

Come on guys

We can do better

If the developers are pulling some greedy and exploitative shit with the game, they absolutely deserve to be called out on it. The loot-box thing is a topic that deserves to dominate the conversation, and actively acknowledging it and publically complaining about it does more good than actively ignoring that aspect of the game. Otherwise, such practices just get normalized and will become more and more common in the future in future games, if developers start to develop the sense that players will willfully swallow anything they try to peddle them, all the while they continue to seal off, segmentize and sell off parts of a game that should be one complete gaming experience.

Ignoring the loot box discussion so some players can maintain their hype for the game only adds to the problem. People need to take a stand against this shit, or else it'll just keep getting worse.

 

[PhantomThief]

Purchase additional orcs? Fuck off

 

[Marcel]

But we did that for 10 pages in my thread and it went nowhere

What about the expansions? Honestly they sound amazing

I thought nothing could keep me away from revisiting DD in 1440p but this will

If they didn't want loot boxes to be part of the discourse maybe the developers could stop droning on about how amazing they are and how you don't have to pay for them but it'd really be okay if you did fellow gamers

 

[Spehornoob]

Kills me not to buy this game, because the first one was one of my favorite games the year it came out, but I'm not gonna support this. I don't want to support loot boxes in single player games.

 

[kc44135]

Kills me not to buy this game, because the first one was one of my favorite games the year it came out, but I'm not gonna support this. I don't want to support loot boxes in single player games.

This. Loved Shadow of Mordor, was initially looking forward to this, and won't be buying it now.

 

[strafer]

Weird seeing people hate the game.

Thought the first game was good and everyone wanted a sequel.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Weird seeing people hate the game.

Thought the first game was good and everyone wanted a sequel.

I mean, have you even bothered to read this thread?

 

[WheelHoss1]

What are you guys going to do when Dark Souls 4 has loot boxes? Stop gaming?

I mean everything has micro transactions now. Phones. TVs. Games. It's the way things are going.

I could even see if getting like cable bills where you don't have to purchase the whole game and can purchase just SP or MP and then a laundry list of micros

 

[Spehornoob]

Weird seeing people hate the game.

Thought the first game was good and everyone wanted a sequel.

I think most of us did. But the monetization system has everyone rightfully leery.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Weird seeing people hate the game.

Thought the first game was good and everyone wanted a sequel.

I mean, sure it's weird. If you ignored the threads about the always online, the spider boobs and the loot boxes. Everyone sure as shit didn't want those.

 

[Spehornoob]

What are you guys going to do when Dark Souls 4 has loot boxes? Stop gaming?

I mean everything has micro transactions now. Phones. TVs. Games. It's the way things are going.

I could even see if getting like cable bills where you don't have to purchase the whole game and can purchase just SP or MP and then a laundry list of micros

Not buy it. If that means I have to buy less and less AAA games, so be it. This isn't a practice I want to support and it's not a game experience I want to have.