And pretty much failing to quell any backlash whatsoever. The narrative about the loot boxes has pretty much been out of their control for a while now (failing a basic test of good PR) so they should probably just shut up about them. At this point you're either going to abide or hate loot boxes in this game, no sense in having developers trot out WB talking points to justify them.
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'Shadow of War' Developer Promises a Massive Expansion to Middle-Earth
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
And pretty much failing to quell any backlash whatsoever. The narrative about the loot boxes has pretty much been out of their control for a while now (failing a basic test of good PR) so they should probably just shut up about them. At this point you're either going to abide or hate loot boxes in this game, no sense in having developers trot out WB talking points to justify them.
Meltdown of the week? Come on. He's completely correct: people on this forum get far too bent out of shape about loot boxes. It gets extremely tiresome that any thread containing a mention of loot boxes gets taken over by vocal dissenters talking about greedy devs. "Greedy devs" is quickly becoming just as annoying as "lazy devs".
Guess what, games cost a lot more to make than they used to, and they still cost $60 for us to purchase. Loot boxes are a buisiness reality if we want AAA games to remain at a reasonable price point. This isn't devs being greedy, it's games being a for-profit buisiness. That's ok.
I'm really looking forward to Shadow of War. I won't be purchasing a single loot box with real money, yet somehow, someway, I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna have a wonderful time with the game.
Audioboxer
Member
You said people couldn't read
The topic article does cover loot boxes, as well as the interview it is based on.
Talking about something included in the article and the interview is not trolling. We're at a crossroads where loot boxes are beginning to get into everything, expect vocal gamers on the biggest gaming forum on the internet to be talking about them where it's appropriate.
Loot boxes are an increasing reality across all games and it's because of greed. This is not a controversial statement, it's simply obvious. Publishers with insatiable money appetites want to increase their margins and create more value for shareholders. I understand why it is the way it is but I don't have to necessarily like the way they are being implemented in this specific title.
johancruijff
Banned
"What is the elvish word for lootbox?"
WheelHoss1
Member
Baron Von Beans
Member
So will this game have the same playable area as the first and then some? I still haven't checked out the first game, but I want a 3d wolrd to romp around in....not just Mordor. Is it known if the "large fortress" battles will be naturally and organically intertwined with the game world? Would hate to have to go to a menu to select which large battle to do, and to have the screen fade to black while it loads an instanced fight, then fade to black to spit me back out wherever I was when it is finished.
Edit. Bah. I realised I misread, and thought that Minas Tirath & Helms deep would actually be in the game. Nope, battle along the lines of Minas Tirath. Along the lines of Helms Deep
Edit. Bah. I realised I misread, and thought that Minas Tirath & Helms deep would actually be in the game. Nope, battle along the lines of Minas Tirath. Along the lines of Helms Deep
SleepingDragon
Member
Is it too much to ask for an actual discussion about the game for ones instead of the usual 'Lootboxes suck I was gonna buy it but now I won't'.
It got old like 4 topics ago.
It got old like 4 topics ago.
If that were so, the rewards would not be randomized. It's not a time saver if I buy something that fails to give me what I need to save time.
I've said this in multiple threads, but as a reminder: most big budget games have expensive special editions, meaning the average selling price for the initial round of sales is more than $60. Publishers already have a way to incentivize higher prices: offer cool add-ons like maps, posters, art books, etc.
I genuinely worry that well get an OT for the game and itll be hard to parse out posts of people wanting to debate loot boxes and people wanting to talk about the rest of the game.
Loot boxes are bad, there is no doubt on that question. But it shouldnt hamper discussion of the rest of the game either.
Papo Swing
Member
But this is not what THIS article is about.
If you want to bash WB for doing the loot box thin, even if you are not obligated to use them, go ahead I'll root you on.
But why does Monolith deserve the blind hate here. They are talking about the work they did on features like Nemesis and expanding thw game world.
I don't get people being against change they can't stop instead of getting ahead of it to their benefit. Whining is not going to stop these publisher from doing this. SaaS is the future of all software.
This is not how it works. Whatever becomes "the future" comes to pass because people allow it to happen. Complaining about stuff you don't like, and voting with your cash, is often all you can do when it comes to trivial video game matters ; what's not to get about vocal displeasure ?
I think you're wrong: a loud, persistent outcry about something puts pressure on publishers to consider alternate means of increasing revenue. It puts pressure on reviewers to spend more time in their reviews addressing these systems. It invites youtubers to make more videos covering these systems. It forces PR people to constantly defend these systems.
Pressure can work.
2blackcats
Member
I didn't know we could attack other players fortresses before.
Lord of Castamere
Member
How many people actually buy those though? 10/20 thousand? How much of a profit margin do they have? I really really doubt that anywhere close to average buy the 100$ plus editions. Maybe 50 thousand for every Million standard editions,if that.
Papo Swing
Member
But SaaS has been a thing for a while now in all software not just video games.
This is the disconnect I think many are not seeing. Video games are not a special part of software that will not evolve in line with the rest. The SaaS models has been here for a while and it is the future for all software unless something else is created.
The voting with your wallet and persistence piece might not work here bwcause it is a little too late for that.
I work in a software company and I've seen a bit of the change and I feel I came at the end where most stuff is now SaaS. It is bigger than gaming and it will affect it.
Enough buy them for companies to keep making them, sometimes with multiple tiers. And I would bet the profit margins attached to throwing a CD and poster onto a game are pretty damn high.
I'm not objecting to SaaS in principal. But SaaS does not demand *loot boxes*. That is one particular means of monetization. Let's not conflate these things.
Dick Justice
Banned
People complaining about complainers are a huge part of why publishers have the audacity to continue with this sort of bullshit. Corporate doormats who do nothing but whinge because their favourite company is having their feelings hurt and just tell others to put up with the bullshit. Reminds me of people telling others to stop bitching about Take 2 trying to kill GTA V mods, then trying to diminish the role they had when Take 2 backed down.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
They're not loot boxes but Rockstar has made hundreds of millions off GTA Online's microtransactions and the GTA Fun Bux bullshit but that's also the reason why GTA Online continues to get updates.
The "Gold" edition of this game for PC could be had for $70 on Bundle Stars with a promo code they sent out. But it's all the same crap as the season pass stuff which these things generally include and if it weren't making them more money they wouldn't be doing it. When it comes to physical copies the profit margin on those non-standard versions is certainly quite a deal higher even if they include a bunch of stuff.
I remember that place from The Silmarillion.
BrassDragon
Member
I want to address this point before it gets lost in the thread. The person explaining this design decision to the public is Michael de Plater, a Monolith lead. He has, repeatedly and articulately, cited player convenience and apprehension about engaging with an 'overwhelming' open world as the driving reasons for having real money loot boxes in his game. The notion that poor Monolith was forced to do this by nameless suits at WB may very well be true but this is just an assumption. The notion that the production budget for this particular title is so crazy high that it can't be sustained with regular end of year sales may very well be true but this is just an assumption. Nothing in the press suggests either of these things so I'm going to take what Monolith says about its own game at face value.
De Plater didn't say he was executing on the vision of his publisher or that the burn rate of his studio requires additional revenue - he made a very clear argument that this is all done to serve his player base.
Well, a good part of his player base is pushing back against that assessment and the design decision it led to. That is not 'blind hate' or misguided anger - that is a direct response to an assertion Monolith put out there. It took a similar feedback loop to convince Blizzard that their real money auction house (another additional revenue stream that was sold as a player convenience) was hurting Diablo III and even then it took months of dedicated noise to get through.
That would be nice.
LMAO
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Massive breast expansion, am I right
lmao, beaten
lmao, beaten
Hahaha this is
"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"
gold
thehillissilent
Member
I'll eventually get the GOTY edition on PC and just use a trainer and cheat engine so I don't have to deal with this loot box BS.
WheelHoss1
Member
Dude what world do you live in?
90% of the world's wealth is held by less than 10% of the population
A lot of people on this site need to grow up and accept the world we live in good or bad. It's all we got
Lord of the Rings is meant to be grand and awe inspiring. Then we get this tacky shit.
We can give them an almost infinite amount of money, I can't wait!!
Don't forget "one of our key features is almost an infinite variety of Orcs".
We can give them an almost infinite amount of money, I can't wait!!
2blackcats
Member
The game has been balanced with the loot boxes switched off.
It sucks that there in but I'm not too bothered as long as they're easily ignored.
Also, while I'll never ever pay for something like loot boxes I do kind of like opening the freebies.
Oh but there is, if you've played MGSV and played around with the FOB system it sounds like this game has the same function which means you could potentially lose your orcs by invading players which could stunt your progress in the SP if you stop playing your game for a couple of days.
As I noted, give me a loot box full of goodwill and I'll root for them. Too bad goodwill is a legendary drop, instead I'm stuck with a common drop, mild mockery.
Hammer-X23
Neo Member
I didn't play the first one (though I plan to), so maybe I'm missing something here... but since when did "...usually random and cosmetic" = pay to win? It sounds to me more like the Overwatch approach. But again, I didn't play the first one yet so I could be off target. I could care less if it's cosmetic items; usually the default looks better anyway.
And if the multiplayer is anything like MGSV FOBs as someone mentioned... I can't wait!
And if the multiplayer is anything like MGSV FOBs as someone mentioned... I can't wait!
PHOENIXZERO
Member
If it's anything like MGSV's FOBs I hope we can turn it the fuck off, that shit ruined MGSV for me because eventually it was all I paid attention to and watching the rampant cheating on the PC version. Then again I also would've uninstalled it a long time ago if it wasn't for the damn FOB shit.
Lord of Castamere
Member
You could just play offline then, I put nearly 200hours into MGSV without ever going online. If the extent of the micros, more or less, match MGSV, then that extent been massively exaggerated.
NullPointer
Member
"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"
Dick Justice
Banned
Thanks for making my point for me. Take your own advice. Grow the fuck up, and stop acting like you need to stan for these kinds of shitty practices, all while using classic "whataboutism" for good measure.
Good of you to ignore my example of what happens when the community applies pressure to stop a publisher from doing certain shit, BTW, in favour of the usual "eat shit and learn to like it" rhetoric.
2blackcats
Member
Seems to me that if the "no buys" (assuming there's plenty of non gaffers too) in this thread are genuine then they aren't going to make money from these mts.
Hopefully it's a lesson learned for them and not just not to mention these things before launch.
I very rarely buy single player games day 1 anyway. Will wait for first price drop. Still really looking forward to this despite the loot box fuck up.
Hopefully it's a lesson learned for them and not just not to mention these things before launch.
I very rarely buy single player games day 1 anyway. Will wait for first price drop. Still really looking forward to this despite the loot box fuck up.
"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"
I'm dying here.
"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"
Perfect lol.
I'm the same. I like the reward that loot boxes bring but I'd never ever pay real money for some stupid virtual good. If this game's balancing forces one to buy loot boxes it's a no-go. If not then I don't care they exist to begin with.
If you truly think the game is balanced exactly the same as if there were no lootboxes at all, you must be incredibly naive.
Of course they'll try their damndest to incentivise you buying these damn things. It's going to be a goddamn money train. It's getting increasingly more pervasive, too. Look at Forza 7 or NBA2K18 for recent examples. You end up stumbling into these crates at every junction.
Of course they'll try their damndest to incentivise you buying these damn things. It's going to be a goddamn money train. It's getting increasingly more pervasive, too. Look at Forza 7 or NBA2K18 for recent examples. You end up stumbling into these crates at every junction.
2blackcats
Member
They've already stated that the game is designed/balanced around them not existing.
So hopefully it all good.
The only thing I would be worried about is the pvp element but we don't have many details about that yet. I don't care whether my opponent has spent a fortune for legendary orcs or not, the fact that they can would be the potential problem.
"ability to go to a market...purchase additional Orcs....you can do that with the currency in the game and the paid currency, gold"
I look forward to renting this.