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[Zombie James]

Good piece by Scoops:

In Shadow of War, loot boxes can either be found organically in the game or purchased through a new storefront called the Market. What's inside the boxes are not limited to cosmetics, however, and that's what riled up fans when the Market was announced in August. The boxes can contain gear (weapons and armor), XP boosts, and orc followers, who can become part of your personal army. The developers claimed the loot boxes were completely optional, and the game had been tuned so you can easily play without them.

Why, then, are they there?

Shadow of War is not a free-to-play game, it's $60. On the other hand, you don't have to buy the loot boxes, so what's the harm? Turns out, it's more complicated than that. GameSpot reviewer Justin Haywald played through the game without needing to pay for a single loot box, calling the Market "less predatory and more like a cluelessly unnecessary addition." (Also, weirdly, you can only get Epic-graded gear for free, while Legendary-graded gear is pay-only. What?)

Monolith hid the game's "true ending" behind completing the Shadow Wars mode. Kollar didn't feel any need to purchase a loot box in the campaign, but Shadow Wars was different. Here's how Kollar explains the dilemma for players, given that Shadow Wars requires you to acquire more and more powerful orcs, in order to defend the strongholds you're overseeing:

"When you run out of in-game money, you have two choices: Make a huge time investment by hunting down orcs in your game world and earning chests via vendetta missions, or spend some real money to get the more powerful orcs you need now. Does the game ever force you to spend money? No. I'm sure you can get to the end of Shadow Wars without spending a dime, as long as you're patient and persistent. But locking progress through this mode (and, again, toward the game's true ending) behind either spending more money or doing tons of tedious busywork feels at least greedy if not predatory."

Games are a business, and I'm guessing few players take issue with publishers trying to make money. The popularity of loot boxes in other games (look at Overwatch or DOTA 2) means there are legitimate reasons to think they have applications elsewhere. But in the same way crappy Season Passes prompted many to believe (often erroneously) developers were cynically holding content until after release, Forza Motorsport 7 and Shadow of War's financial experimentations are poisoning future attempts at the same idea, good or bad.

Lock me in a shower with Evilore if old.

 

[fluffydelusions]

How is battlefront 2 cause I just stumbled on this article?
http://www.gamerevolution.com/featu...tlefront-2s-microtransactions-shaping-pay-win

 

[James Scott]

The concept of paying for a chance to win a digital good always seemed kind of icky.
Even in non $60 releases.

 

[hawk2025]

You can’t poison what is already venom.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

In my book, the whole concept is only acceptable for cosmetic items or in TCG-like games.

 

[JaggedSac]

(Also, weirdly, you can only get Epic-graded gear for free, while Legendary-graded gear is pay-only. What?)

Wasn't this determined to be untrue? I thought someone said that a legendary orc could happen(albeit extremely rarely) without paying anything.

 

[Strakt]

How is battlefront 2 cause I just stumbled on this article?
http://www.gamerevolution.com/featu...tlefront-2s-microtransactions-shaping-pay-win

They shoulda kept star wars limited to just cosmetics and emotes as its for multiplayer. They shouldn't of put the star cards in as they affect game play Not sure as to what can drop when the final version is out, but as of now, it looks to be pay to win.

 

[mullet2000]

Wasn't this determined to be untrue? I thought someone said that a legendary orc could happen(albeit extremely rarely) without paying anything.

I mean, if it's so rare that there is confusion about it it's kinda beside the point.

 

[Heckler456]

Wasn't this determined to be untrue? I thought someone said that a legendary orc could happen(albeit extremely rarely) without paying anything.

From what I'm getting, that's where the time-saving comes in. Either you spend the time to get them to legendary, or you buy them.

 

[Conkerkid11]

But the concept of real money loot boxes is already poison?

 

[JigglesBunny]

That’s like saying pouring bleach in batrachotoxin is poisoning.

 

[MauroNL]

You can’t poison what is already venom.

This man gets it. Its all equally terrible.

 

[mrqs]

60 dollars game

loot boxes with microtransactions

 

[Kintaro]

Man, they are going to have a lot of articles queued up for this season of games.

 

[wesleyshark]

Wasn't this determined to be untrue? I thought someone said that a legendary orc could happen(albeit extremely rarely) without paying anything.

You can get legendary orcs without real money, yep.

 

[GHG]

You might have enough money to buy a fancy Ferrari, but because it's locked behind a certain tier, you can't access it until you buy enough cars from other tiers first. To buy cars, you need more money, and the best way to get more money is by engaging with Prize Crates. It's a frustrating treadmill, and one that seems ripe for exploitation, especially if you were able to buy boosters that would allow you to bypass the loop and earn money faster.

But yet we have some people still trying to argue that the game isn't designed around loot boxes. I don't know who they're trying to fool because they will then tell you that they are constantly opening lootboxes.

This whole lootbox thing in full priced games is a joke, it's going too far now and needs to stop.

 

[Transistor]

The concept of paying for a chance to win a digital good always seemed kind of icky.
Even in non $60 releases.

If you can pay real money for them, I think they should be considered gambling

 

[Theblackrain]

The whole concept is toxic. It's just baffling to me that people accept it as the norm.

 

[shimon]

Good read. This whole situation sucks...

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Overwatch is 40 and all content outside of cosmetics is free for presumably forever.

Forza is a full 60 and has a season pass...

 

[Nephtes]

Poisoning the concept of Loot Boxes so they die a horrible death?
Sweet!
Bring on Shadow of War and Forza 7!

Spoiler

I know that's not what they meant... 😔

 

[Same ol G]

The concept is poison itself.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

You can get legendary orcs without real money, yep.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[spad3]

WOW. THE GALL OF THOSE TWO GAMES. HOW DARE THEY POISON THE CONCEPT OF LOOT BOXES. ITS INHUMANE. ITS ROBBERY. ITS BLATANT THIEVERY. ITS WRONG. TAXATION IS THEFT.


-_-

 

[Stone Ocean]

The concept is already poisoned, these are just the newest strains

 

[Gator86]

Trash take. Loot boxes are bad. Just sell your shit direct.

 

[dugdug]

How about: fuck all loot boxes?

 

[JaggedSac]

If you can pay real money for them, I think they should be considered gambling

Yep, and the odds should be clearly displayed for all possible outcomes.

 

[jman2050]

No, loot boxes poisoned the concept of loot boxes.

Nothing that has been occurring with their use is anything that anyone didn’t expect would eventually happen. The progression into exploitative models is a matter of course, not some shocking development.

 

[CountAntonius]

You can’t poison what is already venom.

Nope. They are fantastic for free to play or cheaper MP only games as long as it's kept to cosmetics. All that extra funding means free maps, modes and quality of life changes for years and it also means a growing e-sports scene without needing to depend heavily on sponsors which usually meant death of the scene if the game wasn't pushing new hardware.

 

[Gator86]

The whole concept is toxic. It's just baffling to me that people accept it as the norm.

The gaming market is chronically incapable of not supporting the worst practices and games journalism is largely terrible. It's not surprising.

 

[Bill R Boggess]

The whole concept is toxic. It's just baffling to me that people accept it as the norm.

Personally, I don’t particularly like that they’ve included loot boxes but that alone isn’t going to deter me from playing a game I’ve been looking forward to for months.

I also think you could argue that if most people ignore these loot boxes and refuse to dump any money into them, that would send a message as loud as those boycotting the game entirely.

 

[Marcel]

Yep, and the odds should be clearly displayed for all possible outcomes.

They already are in China as you might know but publishers in the west are going to fight that tooth and nail if they even smell even a hint of regulation talk. I don't think it will happen anytime soon but it would be funny to see the usual game executive suspects give talks in front of a congressional panel or something, lol

 

[Mesoian]

Hard to poison what's already inherently predatory.

 

[Steve.1981]

How about: fuck all loot boxes?

Starting to feel that way myself. Just kill the entire concept, it's getting ridiculous now.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Want to have a monetized market within your game? Make it a direct sale for specific things.

But... wait... you can't exploit addictive tendencies that way and make even more money.

And that money is needed because the price of development and marketing is oh so high and we need to use these manipulative tactics to make ends meet and to meet your demand of 4k amazing graphics. So.. so.. it's the gamers' fault for this and we have to use these skinner box tactics to milk whales out of cash with RNGs. But you can just ignore it if you are opposed! We put into our games with zero impact to balance nor incentive to buy them cause.... but we need that money to survive but we don't make our games to direct you to the RNG MT.

Fuck off with these shitty practices. Regulation can't come any sooner.

 

[Steroyd]

Nope. They are fantastic for free to play or cheaper MP only games as long as it's kept to cosmetics. All that extra funding means free maps, modes and quality of life changes for years and it also means a growing e-sports scene without needing to depend heavily on sponsors which usually meant death of the scene if the game wasn't pushing new hardware.

No they're garbage fullstop, if I can't dress up Tracer in the exact kit I want for the small fee I'm willing to pay then it's not a good implementation of lootboxes.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

Yeah another post here to say I'm not really going to pick hairs too much over which games have the 'better' system, or if one game is more 'poisonous' than another, as the moment a paid for game has microtransactions it is a problem. That might be extreme to some but until I see a paid game that is made better with microtransactions my opinion will remain the same. Keep them in free to play games where they originated and are justified in.

 

[CountAntonius]

Want to have a monetized market within your game? Make it a direct sale for specific things.

But... wait... you can't exploit addictive tendencies that way and make even more money.

Fuck off with these shitty practices. Regulation can't come any sooner.

Why would it? There are tons of websites that sell "lootcrates" with stickers figures and t-shirts, those quarter machines have been doing this for decades with shitty little toys. The concept of a random prize isn't something new.

No they're garbage fullstop, if I can't dress up Tracer in the exact kit I want for the small fee I'm willing to pay then it's not a good implementation of lootboxes.

You entitled to your opinion but I disagree from the reasons stated. I like my games to be supported for years and if lootboxes make that happen I'll take not being guaranteed some cosmetic item.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The whole concept is toxic. It's just baffling to me that people accept it as the norm.

I think in some games, particularly early pioneers of the concept, there's an undercurrent of people knowing that this will mean other people are paying for their free map updates, new gear and bonus or postlaunch content in general. Like the same amount of dlc is coming out, but a minority of users are paying disproportionate sums so that the majority gets them free which is an attractive prospect.

 

[MadLaughter]

Someday, Loot Boxes may go the way of the online pass. Probably not, though. Given how much money they make.

People are taking the concept from games like Dota and Overwatch but not implementing them in the same way. Loot boxes need to be: Earned regularly, only filled with cosmetic rewards, and implemented very simply so as not to overwhelm the audience. Shoehorning them into a single player game is a huge misunderstanding of what makes people fine with them in other games.

 

[hawk2025]

Nope. They are fantastic for free to play or cheaper MP only games as long as it's kept to cosmetics. All that extra funding means free maps, modes and quality of life changes for years and it also means a growing e-sports scene without needing to depend heavily on sponsors which usually meant death of the scene if the game wasn't pushing new hardware.

Yeah, well, no one is talking about that cute little F2P gambling spider anymore.

We’re talking about the Shelob in the room that we let it grow into.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

I think in some games, particularly early pioneers of the concept, there's an undercurrent of people knowing that this will mean other people are paying for their free map updates, new gear and bonus or postlaunch content in general. Like the same amount of dlc is coming out, but a minority of users are paying disproportionate sums so that the majority gets them free which is an attractive prospect.

I think it's an interesting proposition when non-invasive loot boxes are used as the revenue stream to provide everyone else with free content. I think people would feel better if they knew that was the case.

 

[CountAntonius]

Yeah, well, no one is talking about that cute little F2P gambling spider anymore.

We're talking about the Shelob in the room.

The person I replied to was. He called it all venom. I disagreed.

I think it's an interesting proposition when non-invasive loot boxes are used as the revenue stream to provide everyone else with free content. I think people would feel better if they knew that was the case.

Some people will never accept it. In Rocket league you can turn them off completely by checking a box. The game still has tons of free cosmetics(90 added last update) and non loot box cars you can buy for a small fee outright.

 

[Rumblebones]

I hate the very concept of purchasable loot boxes. I hope they all get banned in Europe.

 

[Same ol G]

Why would it? There are tons of websites that sell "lootcrates" with stickers figures and t-shirts, those quarter machines have been doing this for decades with shitty little toys. The concept of a random prize isn't something new.

It's not about a random prize but having this in a full priced game.

The way they design the game is to spend money when things get difficult, just like f2p games.

 

[st1nk nuts]

Forza doesn’t have real money loot boxes though. I feel like a lot of people don’t know that.

 

[MadLaughter]

Forza doesn’t have real money loot boxes though. I feel like a lot of people don’t know that.

Yet. Haven't they said they are coming?

 

[Zombie James]

Forza doesn’t have real money loot boxes though. I feel like a lot of people don’t know that.

It's confirmed they're adding in real money transactions.

 

[mullet2000]

Forza doesn’t have real money loot boxes though. I feel like a lot of people don’t know that.

They only don't have them at launch to push past the window that reviews will be coming out in. They're adding them soon.