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Is refusing to date people of certain races racist?
- Thread starter Supast4r
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And it's so funny when people make this argument because as a gay person of color I can tell you that gay men are the biggest perpetrators of sexual racism.
Honestly if you just keep asking "why" to every reason a person brings up to not being attracted to a race, you're gonna end up with a pretty racist answer.
I'm not attracted to Asians.
Why?
They just aren't attractive to me.
How so? Why?
I don't like their features.
Which ones?
Their eyes are too squinty.
... Ok cool.
JordanN
Banned
9 times out of 10, someone being vocal about they don't date "x" race is bound to be for douchebag reasons.
I've seen black people who have very light skin that they border on looking white, and I see white people who have dark tans that they wouldn't be classified as pale. To date someone on "race" really stretches the definition of what exactly race is. For example, if you date only white people does that apply to the very light skin Nordic white people or does it also included the tanned or olive skin Mediterranean whites?
I've seen black people who have very light skin that they border on looking white, and I see white people who have dark tans that they wouldn't be classified as pale. To date someone on "race" really stretches the definition of what exactly race is. For example, if you date only white people does that apply to the very light skin Nordic white people or does it also included the tanned or olive skin Mediterranean whites?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You're right. Denying your kid that medical procedure is wrong. I was only talking about the deaf adults in your example.
But again I'm saying it's okay if the person "ONLY" applies it to themselves and no one else. The second you apply those sensibilities onto another person it turns into straight up BS and it's wrong.
Youth Crew
Member
Absolutely not. Its not a choice.
Some people in this thread are trying to say you can change what youre attracted to, by I assume, some sort of conversion therapy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy
Which is sickening.
Lets take a stab in the dark and suggest there might be a history surrounding race, not to mention current implementations of racist systems, that makes it different. The key failing that's coming up again and again in this thread, with no justifications, is reducing race to a physical attribute.
No, people in this thread are saying that attraction can have a social basis. Which is demonstrably true, your petty attempts at childish strawman moralizing aside.
Saying we should critically reflect on why people are vastly more likely to be unattracted to certain marginalized groups in order to find a way to create a culture that is less prone to socializing people to dislike them has very little in common with conversion therapy.
Of course all of this is irrelevant because you've still yet to even attempt to establish why not having control over something would make it not racist anyway.
Oh mY GOD you're intentionally being dense. No one is fucking saying that, they are saying take a few steps back and ANALYZE why you are attracted to certain characteristics. This is not conversion therapy are you kidding? This is called being self reflective and realizing not everything is as innate as you want it to be. There's literally a 27 page thread about this with people explaining this 100 times in so many different ways but you're bringing it up again as if it's this unique point.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Your skin color preference is a factor of environment. If you spent the next 5 years of your life in West Africa you think that you wouldn't gain any sort of attraction to darker skin tones just through a dramatically increased exposure to more black people? Of course you fucking would. Attraction and standards of beauty have a large environmental portion.
Your sexual orientation is not shaped by your environment. It's pretty damn set in stone early in your life. People's attraction to different types changes as they age and see more of the world in people living in it. You don't like men more because you see see more men. You don't like men in the absense of women if you are a heterosexual male.
You literally do not know what you're talking about.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Nope nope nope
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
There is a thing where people can do hyper-liberal too and to a fault of not being able to understand the nuances of this conversation. Like Neece below absolutely explains literally WORD FOR WORD how I feel about black woman and relationships and why I have always stuck to dating them without it being racist.
Now how many of them will reach out to Neese and I, and honestly say a simple "I get it"?
Earthbound64
Banned
So, becoming more tolerant and open to the world around you is the same as "gay conversion therapy"?
Man, some people just really want to dig their heels in about being racist.
Youth Crew
Member
I already discussed in my original post that its okay to refuse to date a race based on physical attributes, but its not okay, and pretty racist, to refuse a race based on the rest of the definition.
I'll give people the benefit of the doubt at first, but when he keeps on coming back to this point I can only assume he's throwing out cries of homophobia in order to distract from not only his own racism but his lack of willingness to confront it, regardless of whether or not he is aware of it.
You've already tried to get around the reality of the situation by disentangling things that can't be disentangled. How are we abstracting the physical attributes associated with a specific racial category from the history behind it. That's actually impossible to do. This is ignoring the problem of categorization that I've refereed to many times in this thread.
Earthbound64
Banned
Yeah, either he sees them as the same thing, or is disingenuously presenting them as the same thing - both of which are horrible looks.
EDIT: Decided to edit out my response to him, because it's not even worth the effort.
What's sickening is you equating conversion therapy to... whatever it is you're accusing others of.
No one in the history of the world has ever been subjected to conversion therapy for attraction to a physical feature, whereas conversion therapy on gays is a real thing that happens even now. When you draw an equivalence between a hypothetical and something real, you fucked up somewhere along the way.
Youth Crew
Member
You keep name calling, but you have no facts.
You cant force someone to be attracted to someone else.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
While there has been tremendous progress over the last fifty years on this front, lets not pretend that its all roses out there for interracial couples. And not everyone is built to want to endure looks, harassment, weird questions etc that comes with the territory, not to mention the challenges of raising a mixed/bi racial child. Not everyone has the strength to carry that mantle and I dont think we should disparage them for that. Not that the ops friend has put any thoughts like that into this, I would wager.
I used the word minority for a reason to exclude cases like what you bring up. I just dont see a problem with folks in a minority cultures not wanting to fully assimilate into generic americans, wanting to maintain some sense of their homeland. Shared struggles can bind people together. Some do, god for them, some dont want to, whats the big deal if they arent harming anyone? And I like eating interesting foods, so I am a bit selfish there 😉.
No one is saying do this. You're grossly misrepresenting what people are saying.
I'm not exactly seeing a treasure trove of facts emerging from your corner here.
StreetDisciple
Member
If your calling my nephews racist self hating house nuggaz your ignorant too. It is what it is. I won't date white women not bc I'm racist it's just not my preference at all. I have slept with white women but dating and trying to build a relationship is a whole other thing. The first girl dated back in JHigh was white, ever since then has been black, Hispanic and Asian. Am I racist or my nephews racist for their preference? Absolutely not.
Attraction is not the same thing as arousal. See, romantic asexuals.
Please do not throw around "facts" when you have no idea what you're talking about.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But it's not as cut and dry for some people. That's why this thread is the length that it is. It's okay for people to converse with others and share ideas.
Earthbound64
Banned
Fact: Sexual orientation is different from attraction to physical appearance.
Fact: You're not saying anything that hasn't been said and refuted multiple times in the past 1000+ posts.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
No deal. Ignorance is the new "choice or preference" in all things race related.
Earthbound64
Banned
But if they're ignorant while refusing to learn and digging in their heels about what they ignorantly think, what does that make them?
I think this is just an extremely uncomfortable question for a lot of people, right? Because we all have our preferences, but when it comes to it, I think the average person is at least willing to date people they engage with on a certain level. The title of this thread, however, leaves little ambiguity. OP is asking if "refusing" to date people because of their race is racist. Which it is. Because you are saying that you 100% will not date someone based on their skin color. That's racism.
Youth Crew
Member
I think people have lost track of what this thread is actually about.
Were discussing refusing to date people of a certain race.
Race meaning a number of things;
A classic definition:
an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups. via Dictionary.com
Many people are saying its racist to not date people based on these attributes:
any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape
Usually, when dating someone, you find them attractive, no?
I find it odd are trying to force the you have to find all races attractive, or youre racist! in here. People are allowed the freedom of liking different things.
It doesnt have to be so black and white. (No pun intended)
Unless you are using a superficial modern definition where it means literal bloodline, which is of course racist.
But we arent discussing that.
Were discussing refusing to date people of a certain race.
Race meaning a number of things;
A classic definition:
an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups. via Dictionary.com
Many people are saying its racist to not date people based on these attributes:
any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape
Usually, when dating someone, you find them attractive, no?
I find it odd are trying to force the you have to find all races attractive, or youre racist! in here. People are allowed the freedom of liking different things.
It doesnt have to be so black and white. (No pun intended)
Unless you are using a superficial modern definition where it means literal bloodline, which is of course racist.
But we arent discussing that.
You could say the same for early white allies of civil rights movements, or straight allies for queers today. You don't want to be an outspoken ally because it's too hard on yourself? Fine, sure, self preservation comes first. I get it.
But you bear some modicum of responsibility for that passivity. Maybe it doesn't warrant the label of racism, or something as harsh as "coward", but there's probably something mild in between that fits.
god your post is so annoying
the topic is about whether or not it's racist to not date people because of their race, and you're being annoyingly pedantic about it.
it's not that deep
Youth Crew
Member
Whats race to you then?
It seems like everyone has their own definition of it.
Im using the ones straight out of the English dictionary.
He isn't even being pedantic about it, about three seconds of thought can poke some massive holes in that definition and I hardly feel like dictionary.com should be taken as an authority on racism. Especially not when he's acting like it's some platonically true definition.
It's almost like it's a really complicated concept that requires a pretty well thought out and argued for understanding. But we don't actually need to define race that tightly for this topic. We just need to establish what counts as racism, and what the person in the OP is doing.
There is no "the English dictionary".
Earthbound64
Banned
This has to be a joke, right?
"straight out of the English dictionary."
Yeesh.
Gotdatmoney
Member
When someone isn't arguing in good faith I just ignore them. You should do the same.
Youth Crew
Member
Since were not using official definitions, whats your personal definition of race?
Maybe thatll explain why youre not understanding my post
I'm not arguing for his sake, I'm arguing for people that might be reading this thread.
Okay.
Where are these "official definitions" coming from?
Race refers to an imagined social group category, people are placed into these categories for a wider variety of reasons but they are generally understood to be theoretically based on presumed familial connection to an some ideal type member of the group. Of course that isn't true in practice. All races are at the end of the day is social labels that people place on themselves and each other. They have meaning only insofar as they are given operative social meaning. If you push too far on race you find nothing but the people that have been identified as members of that group.
I understand your posts, I don't think I've said anything that would indicate I do not. I disagree with both your understandings of these topics and your arguments.
Youth Crew
Member
The definitions are from dictionary.com
But by your definition, it is 100% racist.
Thats why I think this thread is so mixed and argrued; because everyone is using a different definition of race.
I agree with you though, that makes it 100% racist.
I know that's where the definition you are using comes from. I mean the supposed "official definitions".
It does not have a clear antecedent here. What is it, the action of the OP's friend? If so then yes. Well done.
That's not the only thing going on here, but sure people are using different definitions. The issue is some actually address what goes on with race, and some do not. Separating out physical attributes associated with specific racial groups is simply not possible. Not because of the definition of race, but because how the concept actually works in the real world.
excelsiorlef
Member
No one is trying to.
We're just accurately stating that refusing to date an entire race is racist
Btw race ain't from the same splace as sex and gay/bi... know how I know? Any fertile couple capable of reproduction can have a cis boy or a girl, or a trans child or a gay or bi child. Not every fertile couple can give birth to a black child.
Theonik
Member
Conjecture: Segregation is a self perpetuating phenomenon as the isolation creates cultural rifts between the segregated peoples which in turn acts as a further barrier to them intermingling which in turn means they drift further and further apart by each generation.
Conjecture #2: Equality in rights does not equal equivalence. We differ from one another and classify one another as such, if it were not so, there would be no need to have this kind of discussion. This isn't limited to appearance of course. Humans have segregated themselves in arbitrary lineages and castes for years after all even within their own race.
Conjecture #3: If you are raised in that environment, this kind of mentality is ingrained in you and you will develop preferences based on your early experiences. This will typically be a passive and not conscious effort, I don't think there is real malice intended and I think the expectations that people should date people they aren't attracted to is Bizarre?
LordKasual
Banned
Jesus these threads just drivel on and on and on with scemantics
"REFUSING" = most definitely fueled by some racist ideology, if it is indeed refusal and not...:
"PREFERRING" = a personal preference
"NOT ATTRACTED TO" = also a personal preference, and there's about a 95% chance there is an exception case with the person. Proceed to post pictures of celebrities until they say "yes of course I would".
This shit really aint that deep, unless you're trying to argue that
"PREFERRING" = racist, but in a condemning way, not in a "we're all a little racist" way.
in which case, you should probably just learn to deal with the fact that everyone doesn't (and won't be made to) think how you think or like what you like. Every subject concerning race doesn't need to be a racist witch hunt.
Purely idealistic views like "nobody should ever discriminate ever based on anything concerning race" is far too much work and is honestly a bit pointless because as long as cultures exist, people will always think this way.
"REFUSING" = most definitely fueled by some racist ideology, if it is indeed refusal and not...:
"PREFERRING" = a personal preference
"NOT ATTRACTED TO" = also a personal preference, and there's about a 95% chance there is an exception case with the person. Proceed to post pictures of celebrities until they say "yes of course I would".
This shit really aint that deep, unless you're trying to argue that
"PREFERRING" = racist, but in a condemning way, not in a "we're all a little racist" way.
in which case, you should probably just learn to deal with the fact that everyone doesn't (and won't be made to) think how you think or like what you like. Every subject concerning race doesn't need to be a racist witch hunt.
Purely idealistic views like "nobody should ever discriminate ever based on anything concerning race" is far too much work and is honestly a bit pointless because as long as cultures exist, people will always think this way.
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