I never saw this posted
Is this just an action figure?
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Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do
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Is this just an action figure?
Nuno Pinto
Member
I see people blaming dps way more than supports.
Anyway the only time I tend to get frustrated with supports is when I'm on Rein.
Other than that I've learned to adapt, there's plenty of good self-sustained characters to pick so if I see things are not working I just switch.
Anyway the only time I tend to get frustrated with supports is when I'm on Rein.
Other than that I've learned to adapt, there's plenty of good self-sustained characters to pick so if I see things are not working I just switch.
No offense, but the actual mechanics to healing in Blizzard games are so simple you could perform them while your brain leaks out the side of your skull. A lot of people pick healers, get some decent healing numbers, and feel good about it.
The actual skill cap with supports in OW is being able to frag the fuck out while maximizing utility as well as raid bossing people through damage. I almost never run into supports that even attempt to to do all 3.
Idk. I just tend to question support players that go on about "DPS being dumb" or whatever when I don't see them also working through some problems.
The actual skill cap with supports in OW is being able to frag the fuck out while maximizing utility as well as raid bossing people through damage. I almost never run into supports that even attempt to to do all 3.
Idk. I just tend to question support players that go on about "DPS being dumb" or whatever when I don't see them also working through some problems.
TWrecks310
Banned
That's required by Blizzard. It's one of the more controversial moves they have made for the League, but there is some sense behind it. Here's a video where Immortals' CEO talks about it:
https://twitter.com/Immortals/status/902931020420222976
LET'S FUCKING GO RULER. We're Masters fam now we're grouping up together.
more like LUNATIC BYE.
I have no idea how Lunatic Hai has been dominated by this team twice now.
Incendiary
Banned
I'm not great, I know this. But when I'm playing Support and my job is to keep idiots alive while the idiots who went 4 DPS 1 Tank say I suck, I can't help but be annoyed.
I didn't play old Mercy because I was horrible at judging when to Rez, and I told people this when they asked me to switch from Lucio/Zen. They wanted a solo healing Mercy and I said no, because I'm better with Lucio/Zen than with Mercy. They would grumble but nobody would switch off DPS to help me. Is it really my fault if I'm an average Lucio on a team with average to bad 76s/Hanzos/Widowmakers?
Also this.
I dunno', I feel like often the difference betweenan awesome Mercy game and a meh one is how well my team is doing. I can only do so much - 60hps won't see you through a Tracer clip to the head or a pair of Junk mines or a Reaper who lands his shots. You have to Get It Done, and I'll be there to back you up.
I feel more like, when I'm on support (and not playing Zenyatta), I can only amplify whatmy team already is. If they're good, with me at their backs they'll be great. If they're meh, meh is the best we can do.
If they're bad, I'm switching to Tracer.
Though I'll admit my best Mercy games are also ones where I'm GAing around and swapping to the pistol to finish off reds, doing everything at once. I should play more Lucio, but my survivability is in the toilet on him.
I feel more like, when I'm on support (and not playing Zenyatta), I can only amplify whatmy team already is. If they're good, with me at their backs they'll be great. If they're meh, meh is the best we can do.
If they're bad, I'm switching to Tracer.
Though I'll admit my best Mercy games are also ones where I'm GAing around and swapping to the pistol to finish off reds, doing everything at once. I should play more Lucio, but my survivability is in the toilet on him.
I mean, at some point it stops being about roles and starts being about basic competency. I don't get why you'd get hung up over somebody who clearly doesn't understand the game enough to even fill out a team comp.
As a support, you can have enough impact to override morons sometimes though too.
As a support, you can have enough impact to override morons sometimes though too.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Honestly I don't think you guys should even take in account opinions of people that are fine running a team with solo healer.
Even worse when they pick characters with no self-sustain.
You know that you're losing the game just by looking at a team composition like that unless the other team is at the same level of stupidity.
Basically this.
Even worse when they pick characters with no self-sustain.
You know that you're losing the game just by looking at a team composition like that unless the other team is at the same level of stupidity.
Basically this.
Yeah but sometimes you look at a comp and say "whelp, we're gonna' lose," and then the reds don't even get the payload to the 1st point and you never die once. Stay positive!
Welcome to every role in the game buddy. Do people not realize how hyperly dependent even characters like Tracer are on their team doing the most basic of shit?
You wanna have impact with any class, you gotta find that time when your team lines up with you and then make something happen. The reason I'm gonna give support players shit is because most of them just use their passive mechanics in a passive manner when those openings are there.
If I'm a solo Lucio, I'm extremely aggressive with keeping people together and making decisions about pushing or snatching team mates back into the fold, and more often than not I don't get singled out as the reason we lost. Every now and again I actually get a "thanks." If I've got Mercy on back-up, I'm a little more lax because, well, she's the best healer in the game. I expect her to be making sure individuals are okay while I give a nice area bonus and play the objective more than I would otherwise. Like, don't put me down for actually playing towards the fucking goal of the map. I don't think I'm asking for much.
You're asking for a lot. Shut up and do your job and expect to get SR for it. Find spots to improve, work on your shit, etc. Somebody gives you shit? Fuck it. Don't just sit there and grandstand about how if it wasn't for you there wouldn't be a game or whatever. That way you don't get assholes like me trying to bring some shit back down to Earth.
I have played all roles a number of times. I don't expect shit. I expect to make my plays and try to get a win. Playing support doesn't make you special or worth saying anything else extra to.
I have played all roles a number of times. I don't expect shit. I expect to make my plays and try to get a win. Playing support doesn't make you special or worth saying anything else extra to.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Sure it can happen, I've had experiences like those too. But it's not the majority, by far.
And the games are shit anyway.
I'm pretty sure I lack this type of awareness. I feel like the only time I truly pay attention to what my team is doing is when I'm on support.
Edit: actually D.Va too before the nerf, and also Soldier if I'm on the backline protecting my supports.
Tracer (and Genji I guess?) can be so independent though. Like I can spend half of a KotH game off the point, harrying respawns and giving my team a numbers advantage on the point, sustained by health packs.
I think Tracer's probably the only really good example of a hero that can do that, though.
The Best Games are definitely the ones where I'm the point of the sword, pouring shots into wherever my team is shooting and just melting everything.
We are a single organism, and we have come to feed on you.
You say this, but the higher up you get the less true it is. With only some exceptions of lower play time in ranked, a lot of the best DPS players that play heroes like this don't have some super outstanding winrates. Seeing anything above 60% is actually like astounding. The rest of the time I can tell you with 100% certainty their actions are being anchored by their teams.
It's actually a real problem with the game when you look at stats in ranked. High winrates are extremely hard to get and maintain no matter who you pick because you are chained to your team for basic interactions.
Nuno Pinto
Member
No way, from my experience at least. And I've heard people like Seagull and Surefour saying the same.
Genji is much more dependent on his team than Tracer.
Not being blamed for your screw-ups, especially when I go out of the way to save you from a Sombra using the one ability in my toolkit you told me not to use, is not asking for a lot.
It's highly presumptuous that you think I'm not trying to improve my Lucio play. Yet the supports are the ones on the high horse.
You're bringing nothing back down to Earth because literally the only one assuming that any of the supports on this tangent have been acting superior is you. No one here said that supports here magically hold up the game or that we're the lynchpin. We said we don't like getting singled out as the sole reason for someone's else's failures or the whole team loss as much as we are. Everyone has shit to improve, and as such it's a matter of glass houses. Unless you're some fucking Top 500 monstrosity, don't talk to me unless you're spotting or actually requesting healing, because you're probably not doing much better than me.
Incendiary
Banned
I rarely run into any issues when I play with a group that understands team composition and isn't a bunch of alphas who think they're all Seagull on DPS. It's always the frustrating morons who shit on the support when they refuse to play anything but DPS and never get kills.
So I guess I'm just complaining about shitty OW people in general. I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just like playing Support and will shoulder equal blame if we're doing shitty, but not all the blame.
On top of everything, there's a way to actually point out people's flaws in play. I've chatted to a few Reinhardts to not charge so far ahead because I'm just too slow to keep up with them and get them out of a scramble with three or four enemies, and once they group back up I've thanked them. Hell, people have told me when I've been using speedboost wrong over chat, and once I regained my awareness everything was cool, and that's helped me improve. But do you think I'm not gonna argue back if you give me a sarcastic "heal more" when Mercy is standing right next to you? Fuck that.
All I'm trying to say is, at the end of the day, don't be a fucking dick.
All I'm trying to say is, at the end of the day, don't be a fucking dick.
sonycowboy
Member
I have no idea what you just said there... Well, I have some idea, but I think I could easily be wrong. Healing isn't quite as braindead as you say, except for Lucio
. That being said, I do agree that playing supports well is all about understanding what your role is and, as you said, it's not just healing. Particularly, Lucio and Zen. Their ults and secondary responsibilities (speed boosting, discords, opportunity damage) really make them indespensible and why you should almost always have two supports in every comp.Just saying, I don't see a lot of other people around talking up how people play around their class oh so wrong as much as supports. I also don't run into many people who misunderstand how the game works more than those support players. So I'm just gonna talk some shit about it. The types of things I see regarding this topic when I look in the thread tend to be whack in general.
Idk. Looking in this thread and seeing shit like that pulls out all the toxicity I don't get out in game whenever a plat Mercy player tries to backseat DPS for me.
Mercy: Hold M1 in the general direction of a player
Lucio: Stand in the general area of a player
Zen: Hit shift while looking in the general direction of a player
With the exception of Ana, actually getting heals down on people is a mechanical joke. I understand where the difficulties lie in making that happen, but I'm talking about the mechanical effort it takes to fill up a healthbar. You don't even need to manage a CD to fill it up outside of Amp. Note I don't think it's a bad thing it's easy to heal, but I do think it can fuck with perception of what you're doing sometimes.
Idk. Looking in this thread and seeing shit like that pulls out all the toxicity I don't get out in game whenever a plat Mercy player tries to backseat DPS for me.
Healing isn't quite as braindead as you say, except for Lucio
Mercy: Hold M1 in the general direction of a player
Lucio: Stand in the general area of a player
Zen: Hit shift while looking in the general direction of a player
With the exception of Ana, actually getting heals down on people is a mechanical joke. I understand where the difficulties lie in making that happen, but I'm talking about the mechanical effort it takes to fill up a healthbar. You don't even need to manage a CD to fill it up outside of Amp. Note I don't think it's a bad thing it's easy to heal, but I do think it can fuck with perception of what you're doing sometimes.
You probably don't see a lot of people talking up how to play around their class because the other classes don't necessarily require the presence of other players to be good at their job. Like, when I play Soldier, I objectively don't need anyone to help me kill because that's entirely within the domain of my own clicking and aiming. When I play Lucio, if you're not in my radius, then I can't heal you or speed you out of a jam. Healing supports rely on cooperation to inherently succeed at their specific jobs more than other classes and characters do, but this seems to be commonly misconstrued as it being our entire responsibility to play around any and all decisions you're making that makes our jobs harder or sometimes nigh impossible. It simply doesn't matter how much a Reinhardt bitches at me in the chat; the math under the hood will not let me keep up with his Charge.
I wish that I ever played OW in a world where I didn't need somebody to peel or engage for me to get meaningful impact with Soldier.
Like, this sort of happens in QP and lower ranks, but this just stops being true eventually. High level players have joked in various metas that DPS is just a glorified support sometimes.
Ohhkayyy c'mon the challenge isn't the act of healing your team, its staying alive while doing it, without the defensive and offensive tools of the tanks and DPS. A good support is there, in the thick of it, healing/buffing. A bad one is on their way back from spawn more often than not.
I'm not saying that other characters don't rely on others to get significant impact out of their roles.
I'm saying, objectively, I don't need anyone on my team to be physically present to be able shoot and kill when I play Soldier. However, I need people within a ten foot radius at all times to be able to do anything as Lucio aside from shooting with his relatively weak gun and punching things.
Like, I don't see how this is arguable.
The point I'm trying to make is that healing is a super easy thing to do and almost every support player that isn't climbing is focusing on a mechanic that you can do as an afterthought generally. A lot of support players focus on healing as a metric of how well they are doing, when it's literally something anybody can do if they're being peeled for. You can take a silver player and slap them on Mercy in a GM game. If they are peeled for by the other GM players, they will heal just as much as any other GM Mercy.
What she won't do is actually use M2 or hard pocket a DPS with M1 that needs to be pulled through a dive or something. She won't use the few CDs she has correctly. Etc.
You get where this is going? Overhealing and choosing to heal over making an impactful play is such a common mistake that it is actually unbelievable.
Lucio's gun is absurd, he's one of the best duelists in the entire game lmao. This is why I'm saying your understanding of what's happening isn't all the way there yet. Soldier is an extremely team reliant DPS that requires set up to keep damage coming around shields and heals. It's actually easier for Lucio to secure kills sometimes believe it or not. It's one of the main jobs he has going for him right now.
and this is why there are no healers on my team ever
That pretty much describes any healer that isnt in masters lol
Tbf I'm being an asshole about it and don't think that highly of myself. You're actually Top 500
Tbf I'm being an asshole about it and don't think that highly of myself. You're actually Top 500
Ehhh you're The Authority, we take your perspective pretty seriously, Anne. ^.^
BlackDoomShadow
Member
In light of today's trailer I just wanted to remind everyone that it's been a year and a half and we've still yet to receive a Pacific Rim-style animated short about D.Va fighting a giant omnic kaiju.
Tbf I'm being an asshole about it and don't think that highly of myself. You're actually Top 500
Aba quit the game.
Or so we thought.
That doesn't excuse me from being a huge bitch though lol (I'm not going to stop until I'm made to though)
I don't even have it installed right now but I keep up. I only uninstalled it to move it later and never did download it again RIP
Trailer today what?
I am fundamentally aware of Lucio's accuracy; I've posted up on enough weakened tanks to know. But the original point is getting lost in the plot, which is that the reason support mains get so pissy is because we get most of the blame for game outcomes (next to snipers, those poor souls), and part of that quickness is I think due in part to a pervasive overestimation of support abilities, an underestimation of non-supports' impact on supports' success, or perhaps both.
Hey, I don't die that much!....
Anymore.
TheThinWhiteDuke
Member
Hey, whatever gets Anne to talk about how the game works, I'm for.
And all that's really going on here is that everyone is talking about two different games, given the SR differences.
SgtWiggles
Member
I feel like Tank mains deserve more respect personally.
Yeah I have lost a lot of games because of bad DPS, or bad heals/lack of heals. But nothing is gonna fuck a team more quickly than when your Rein is constantly fucking up Charges and ending up in the enemy backline. Or your D.va is constantly out of Mech and wasting her Self Destructs just to get instantly De-Mech'd again, or your Winston doesnt know how to dive properly and just leaps face first into instant death. A good Tank can get picks rivaling your DPS characters, with more survivability.
Just with Reinhardt you can instantly see the skill difference when two of them start dueling. Whichever one gets baited into dropping his shield or charging and getting his team Earthshattered, while the other just blocks it and laughs.
Yeah I have lost a lot of games because of bad DPS, or bad heals/lack of heals. But nothing is gonna fuck a team more quickly than when your Rein is constantly fucking up Charges and ending up in the enemy backline. Or your D.va is constantly out of Mech and wasting her Self Destructs just to get instantly De-Mech'd again, or your Winston doesnt know how to dive properly and just leaps face first into instant death. A good Tank can get picks rivaling your DPS characters, with more survivability.
Just with Reinhardt you can instantly see the skill difference when two of them start dueling. Whichever one gets baited into dropping his shield or charging and getting his team Earthshattered, while the other just blocks it and laughs.
Yeah, I can notice bad tanks easily. I see low rank tanks blame their dps or supports for everything, when in reality it's just that they have no idea how to play tank properly.
Dead Prince
Banned
oh so youre not suppose to dive in and get a few dmg in and then die expecting a res?
FiveSix4Three
Member
I'll take an aggro tank over the passive af tanks I come across on the reg.
Dead Prince
Banned
a rein that holds up his shield creeping up to point on KOTH while the rest of the team is spread out and not behind him. then you realized a support player is playing him because they don't know what else to do.
SgtWiggles
Member
I play Rein aggressively. If people would actually follow me up when I get a successful pin right off the bat on Hanamura or Volskaya we could avoid the 2 minutes of Symmetra and Torbjorn bullshit at the choke. So many times I'll land a fucking perfect pin on their Rein or Orissa and nail them right in a side room or something where I don't die instantly and their whole team panics. But instead my teammates just back up or do gods knows what when they just had a perfect opportunity to push in on the confusion
My biggest annoyance of being stuck in mid/high Diamond right now is that solo healing is so rampant thanks to Junkrat needing to be the 3rd Offensive pick.
This is me.
I'll charge in, maybe get one of their guys and cause a ruckus and.... my team is nowhere to be seen.
SgtWiggles
Member
This is me.
I'll charge in, maybe get one of their guys and cause a ruckus and.... my team is nowhere to be seen.
I know that feel. Its like my biggest pet peeve. Why fight at the choke when in the first 10-20 seconds I literally gave us all an opening to push them back off it and everyone is too scared to take it.