mrmickfran
Member
Yeah, I agree with Kaede's execution being the worst. Asphyxiation seems like a terrible way to go.
And the worst part? IT WAS ALL FOR NOTHING
And the worst part? IT WAS ALL FOR NOTHING
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New Danganronpa V3 Spoiler Thread
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And then her body was crushed by spikes. I'm glad you guys agreed. The image of her being strangled still haunts me.
I kinda hated that they included the Monokubs in every punishment too. Totally ruined some of impact by it.
blankempathy
Member
So now that its been a day was Kokichi going against the mastermind all planned or was that off scripted? Also why was Kokichi as evil as he was when apparently he was just the leader of a harmless group of individuals? Also I really wish we got to see everyones audition tapes. It was funny seeing that Kaito was willing to kill for fame and money and Kaede was the complete opposite of her character who was so easy to trust and work together. As for the executions I'm glad they were darker this time around. Really put some weight behind their deaths. Past executions were for the most part too cartoony. Made their death almost comical. What better way to cause despair than to watch your favorites suffer?
Kokichi wasn't really evil. The worst thing he did was manipulate Gonta into killing Miu, but even that can be argued as self preservation since Miu was planning to kill him. Kokichi spent most of the game goofing around.
I'm not really sure why the writers created a character like Kokichi in the first place. The in-universe writers I mean. He was obviously going to do everything he could to screw up their game. It just seems like they created a big headache for themselves.
I'm not really sure why the writers created a character like Kokichi in the first place. The in-universe writers I mean. He was obviously going to do everything he could to screw up their game. It just seems like they created a big headache for themselves.
Kokichi was basically similar to Nagito but not actually evil by any means. He wasn't a Remnant and was playing it off for laughs. He pretty much explains why he lies and was making up stuff during his whole scene with Kaito in the hangar. He thought his method was the only way to destroy the killing game. But because he kept his plans to himself, it fucked it up for everyone else.
Also, his nightmare faces creeped me the fuck out.
Also, his nightmare faces creeped me the fuck out.
Pretty sure Kokichi was at least partially off-script as that's where a lot of the mastermind's plans seem to have gone awry. Kokichi disabling the cameras and making it so not even the makers of the games or the audience knew who killed who was definitely not part of the plan.
It also seems that he went off script earlier than that. The first off-script piece was probably when Kokichi didn't share what he found out with the key-card and used that as leverage for the computer world. Monokuma wanted everyone to find out about the "outside world is death" thing simultaneously.
His claiming that he was the mastermind was also off-script. Kokichi seemed to want to stop all the killing by getting rid of all the mysteries and keeping monokuma isolated. This made Tsumugi have to make a new flashback light to get people to think Kokichi is a remnant of despair in order to further motivate them and get them to kill Kokichi. Remember what Kokichi said when Maki shot him "Do you really like killing this much?". He had apparently hoped that it wouldn't come to that even though he had prepared for it.
Hell, the entire mess up with their memory not matching the Hope's Peak academy book they find is because of the hastily made flashback light to get them to fight Kokichi. There might not have been a "this is all fiction" moment without Kokichi.
Indeed, he was focused on trying to screw over the real mastermind and ignoring potential allies with his plan.
I get the impression that the unknown culprit trick was his final back-up plan. He probably wanted to work with Kaito separate from everyone else. He caught on to the fact that Kaito was slowly dying and trying to hide it and figured the mastermind wouldn't give themselves a terminal disease.
blankempathy
Member
The thing is that he didn't have to kill Miu. He could have easily told everyone what Miu was up to and stopped her without having to kill her. He clearly knew what she was plotting before hand. He also willingly sacrificed Gonta in the process. I mean he even said it himself that Gonta would have easily been found out had he not forgotten what happened thanks to the VR cable mix up. He spent the whole game screwing people over and enjoying their misery. Now you can argue that was just all for show but really there wasn't any proof of that either.
The biggest waste was Chapter 3. People had motives to kill Angie during that whole cult arc but they wasted it on Kirekiyo accidently killing her. Tenko's death was also quite a waste as well. Killing for his "Sister" was just such a dumb thing from out of the blue. Kirekiyo was interesting without that revelation. Felt like they couldn't come up with a better motive. It was probably the only chapter I didn't like because of that.
It was a way for Kokichi to determine how much of an effect the truth of the outside world would have on other people. If it's enough to get Gonta of all people to kill someone, then he needed to act in a more drastic manner in order for the killings to stop. Remember, he did tell Gonta Miu was trying to kill him. If Gonta just stuck with Kokichi during the meeting instead of hiding out, Miu wouldn'tve been able to do shit.
blankempathy
Member
Kokichi isn't a moron. He knew how much of an affect it would have had before hand. In fact you can argue that everyone knowing the truth would have stopped the killing game entirely since there would be no place to escape to. Gonta killed Miu because he had it put into his mind by Kokichi that it was the most merciful way to end her suffering and was going to kill everyone else later as well. He didn't want to simply end the game though. His main objective was to beat the mastermind.
Poltergust
Member
If Kiyo stopped his plans to commit a murder using the seesaw trick after killing Angie, would there have even been any evidence found that would link him to Angie's murder? Shuichi was able to deduce that Angie was murdered outside her lab because of the dried blood he discovered under the floorboard.
But... he would've never reached that conclusion if he was never prompted to search the empty rooms in the first place. The assumption for the majority of the trial was that Angie was killed in her lab.
It's kinda ironic that the simple, unplanned murder was probably the easiest to get away with. I don't know why the murderers in this series keep using such complicated set-ups that always lead back to them once people figure them out instead of using simple methods that literally anyone can do.
Yea, it was convoluted af.
Chapter 3 was definitely the worst and most frustrating chapter in the game. Kiyo deserved better than to devolve into a generic psycho killer. Angie deserved better than to die out of happenstance. Tenko especially deserved better than to die and "inspire" Himiko to get her shit together.
I really think it would have been great if Tenko survived. Like her realizing her that her man-hating and tendencies and homosexuality were fabricated could have been damn interesting.
Yea, loved Tenko. She should've been one of the survivors.
I think it's all but guaranteed that the series is gonna continue in "the real world" since there's two directions you could go I think.
1. Have it be about the events that happened in that world that influence Danganronpa as was hinted at in the epilogue.
2. Have realistic scenarios related to Danganronpa after the series has ended, the easy bet would be having someone trying to do a real life killing game or mimicking Danganronpa deaths/executions.
Either way, it would be a big gamble since it means grounding the series in reality, you could still have eccentric characters and some far fetched stuff, but it would never get to be as zany as Dangan could be before.
Also, I'd love to see them do what people want from Persona and diversify the cast beyond just teenagers, but I have a feeling they'll stick with teens since they're easier to make likable and marketable.
1. Have it be about the events that happened in that world that influence Danganronpa as was hinted at in the epilogue.
2. Have realistic scenarios related to Danganronpa after the series has ended, the easy bet would be having someone trying to do a real life killing game or mimicking Danganronpa deaths/executions.
Either way, it would be a big gamble since it means grounding the series in reality, you could still have eccentric characters and some far fetched stuff, but it would never get to be as zany as Dangan could be before.
Also, I'd love to see them do what people want from Persona and diversify the cast beyond just teenagers, but I have a feeling they'll stick with teens since they're easier to make likable and marketable.
It would be odd without Monokuma. Altho they constantly made little jokes about how it wouldn't be the same without the mascot. But they def opened themselves up to to multiple branching storylines if they wanted to do that.
Really curious what the next game would be.
Trigonometrize.
Member
Let's go in the opposite direction. Danganronpa All-Stars! Byakuya, Kirigiri, Nagito, Gundam, Kokichi, Kaede and others all finally in the same killing game!
Akane kills Hiro in chapter 1 so we can finally rid ourselves of the worst DR survivors
Just beat the game now...yeah I can see why this ending would be divisive, even I'm still not sure whether this is for the best or Not, as it obviously drastically changes my view points on the first few games, and Not sure I can even replay them and get the same enjoyment now, and not sure how I feel about all the story up to now being fake, but I also have to say it's a very brave move to have an ending to have massive impacts across everything in the series so far, and I suppose its funny that I find fiction within fiction kinda concerning but just fiction is fine ha ha.
Suppose the true test is if they do another one, which I'd be surprised if they dont, how they would go about it. I mean if it would be another "typical" killing game now, we're going to obviously know what the deal it behind it all, so it feels the only real option is a drastically different setting, which I would be interested in.
Suppose the true test is if they do another one, which I'd be surprised if they dont, how they would go about it. I mean if it would be another "typical" killing game now, we're going to obviously know what the deal it behind it all, so it feels the only real option is a drastically different setting, which I would be interested in.
i just finished the game and... i don't know i like it and i kinda don't? the thing i don't like is that they dissmiss the other danganronpa games as fiction inside fiction, making them pointless? well there's still the thing about the copycat tsumugi but still... i liked the twist about the people being the evil ones, but cmon why rely on the other games just to dismiss them, they very well could have done everything without using the old danganronpa characters and games.
It does and it doesn't. It does count them along all the other fictional 50 games, but at the end it does tease that the first two games were actually real in universe. They were deliberately unclear in that regard in my opinion.
Also...I really, really expected there to be a "ULTIMATE LIAR" reveal for Omi near the end.
That's not what I meant. The first two games exist in one universe, and V3 exists in a universe in which they actually are just games. But like most stuff with the ending, it is up to interpretation.
"Well the audience demanded it."
Sinh_Magnus
Member
I already dismissed the first two games in my mind after D3, so...
Not really, but I actually prefer V3's take on them. It makes the whole story of Junko, the biggest, most awful blah blah and their contrivances more easier to digest. Danganronpa was never good when It came to fill up the gaps in my opinon, until V3 came out and added another possible perspective on this universe.
Edit: I doubt they will end the series considering the sales of V3, at least in Japan. It will probably take some years to see another game, and they will need to consider doing a big reboot of the franchise's iconics elements, without neglecting what fans would want from another danganronpa game.
Not really, but I actually prefer V3's take on them. It makes the whole story of Junko, the biggest, most awful blah blah and their contrivances more easier to digest. Danganronpa was never good when It came to fill up the gaps in my opinon, until V3 came out and added another possible perspective on this universe.
Edit: I doubt they will end the series considering the sales of V3, at least in Japan. It will probably take some years to see another game, and they will need to consider doing a big reboot of the franchise's iconics elements, without neglecting what fans would want from another danganronpa game.
That is up to interpretation like you said, for me they were fictional.
The epilogue already made it weird, so whatever.
Honestly, I don't think I want to see Kodaka helm the series for a next one. Kind of like what happened to the Ace Attorney series, a new writer could take the games in a different direction that Kodaka doesn't want to take because he's set in his ways.
Part of a reason to dislike the V3 ending, for me. It's a way to wave away all the extreme silliness or bad writing from previous media as "well, blah blah it's what the audience wanted" or whatever other contrivance they could associate with it.
Part of the reason I can definitely see people thinking V3 lessens the substance of the series as a whole. Again, Danganronpa 3 certainly did that to everything that preceded V3.
How so? The whole theme of the game was truths vs lies, so it made sense that Shuichi would question everything Tsumugi said.
Novel Mike
Member
Honestly Chapter 6 really soured me on a lot of the game because of that. It wasn't the final twist that really bothered me (its convoluted as hell) but I absolutely can't stand what they did to Kaede.
I thought the twist itself was great but I hated that it happened to Kaede. She was such a refreshing character compared to the previous games protagonists and I liked that she was really doing a great job as a leader for the most part and seeing her endless optimism I really wanted to see how she would ultimately struggle to over come the despair and hopeless feelings that these killing games give the characters and how helpless she might really end up feeling about not being able to stop it.
Instead of that she does something very uncharacteristic of herself and sets up an extremely elaborate trap that we ultimately learn doesn't actually fucking work and Rantaro is killed because of sheer and utter bullshit and she gets the blame for it and then dies a hell of a horrific death.
It goes against the very rules put in place at the start of the game, yeah sure its similar to what Junko tries to do in DR1 by setting up Kyoko but Kyoko only dies in the bad ending and shes not used to develop any other character. Here Kaede is used a plot device and character development for the real MC Shuichi who just isn't very interesting really and to pull the rug out from the player. Whats even worse is that because of this 'twist' in chapter 6 the game basically fridges her twice!
Not only is she used for developing Shuichi at the beginning of the game but then shes revealed to be innocent of Rantaro's murder and was executed unjustly which only serves to develop Shuichi more as he then was revenge for Kaede against the mastermind.
All the while Kaede's character is robbed one of the few things she actually did. As much as I think her sudden turn to attempt murder on the mastermind was bullshit it still set her up as the first player character who commits a murder (at least during the killing games) and one of the few people trying to do the right thing by doing something she knows is clearly wrong but it shows at least she is a three dimensional character who is willing to sacrifice herself in order to unite the group and get them to see the truth for what it really is...
But by revealing that she didn't actually kill anyone the game takes that away from her, sure she tried to kill someone but thats been done before (Chapter 4 of Dr1 with multiple people thinking they were the ones who killed Sakura) and all it does it make her yet another victim, ruining what little of a character arc she actually had and it makes her death even more horrifying. She thought that she had done an unforgivable sin and was willing to die for it but she didn't actually do it, god its so fucked up.
I like a good twist and I thought the twist in Chapter 1 was actually good but Shuichi is just a boring and flat main character thats only development in around two characters that basically sacrifice themselves for his own development. It's really poorly written, the whole plot is convoluted and really as much as I thought some of the twists and turns were interesting I'd rather not have any of them and have the game be more of a character driven story with a unique lead over what we got in this game.
DRV3 did a lot of things it just needed need to do. It didn't need to bring back up anything from the previous games, it didn't need to have a fakeout of who the MC was, it didn't need to have this convoluted plot on the whole series being a meta story, none of that was really needed it just seemed like they started the series in the most grandiose way with a ton of crazy twists and it just kinda felt like they had to be even MORE over the top then before.
I thought your point was that the ending of the game admonishes the idea of sequelitis.
The fact that the epilogue of the game kept the three survivors alive and that it ends on a "I wonder what's in store for us next!" conceit is pretty much the opposite of that point. Then there's the fact that a major factor in V3's ending is that the characters are fighting both against Despair and Hope by fighting the game itself. But then the epilogue ends on what is very clearly "Hope." The epilogue contradicts any moral its ending wanted to achieve.
I'd argue that, for this one, it did. The series needs to play around more with things like this, instead of going for the same. I feel like there are a ton of different mystery concepts they could explore within the framework of Danganronpa, but they don't. I like how they executed the "You are the blackened" concept, and I enjoy a protagonist shift, too. Only issue here is that it went from a refreshing female main character perspective who had differences to Makoto and Hajime, to another male character. At least Shuichi had his own notable differences.
I thought the lying mechanic would be used more than it is in the game, and pre-release, I thought it'd be neat to see that integrated into straying the discussion astray when you are the blackened. Another thing I had thought of was waking up for Daily Life at some point, and engaging in the usual events with a slightly different internal monologue and ways in which characters interact with you. And then you discover that the character you had been playing up until that point has been killed.
I dunno. I feel like Danganronpa should focus more on twists, turns and mysteries on a micro scale—make it more about the killing game itself—instead of focusing so much on the macro scale, or what the state of the world is that would cause a killing game at all.
I like how real Kaede has no faith in humanity. Clarifies something she says at the beginning of the game when she talks about being kidnapped, saying that everyone's inaction made her think how rotten the world is.
Novel Mike
Member
I agree completely. I expected all of them to die, that would've made sense. Seeing the three still being alive at the end regardless of how/if/why Keeko could actually save them just seemed like the developers forgot the very message they were trying to convey with the game and just went with what amounts to a 'good' ending anyway. It wasn't needed and in the end doing that not only takes away from the message they wanted to convey but it also is pretty much a giant FU to the player because clearly the way this story was setup it was not meant to have any real story after this game so its unlikely any of the 1,000's of questions will ever be resolved which on its own isn't that bad but when they're like SURPRISE THE CHARACTERS LIVE it just adds onto the amount of questions on top of that. Its not as if they actually say any damn thing interesting during the Epilogue anyway.
Yeah, that was my point. I still think having this be the 53rd game and so much of those previous 52 seasons be similar to each other (each ending with Junko again) is Kodata warning about sequelitis.
I don't think the epilogue contradicts the ending though. I think Kodata just wanted an ambiguous ending. Yeah, there are 3 survivors and they still think that some of what Tsumugi said was a lie, but they're going to find out for themselves whenever that was true or not. Just for the "camera" to zoom out to show that the dome they were held captive in has Team Danganronpa's logo all over it, showing that Tsumugi wasn't lying about everything. Leaves the series on not a hopeful note, but an ambiguous note, which I think was a good way to end the series. Leaves the audience to try to come up with their own answers, and a sequel to this would just ruin that.
But, this series is Spike Chunsoft's most known title, so we probably are getting a sequel. A new writer would be appreciated though to keep it fresh.
Star Orpheus
Member
The Kaede twist is the major thing that bugs me about this game. I legit would have bought it already if they didn't pull that crap. I seriously doubt it was any sort of sexist reasoning(they had a spinoff with a female lead after all) but I think they were ignorant of how it's kinda in bad taste.
Killing a female character is absolutely fine. This is a murder mystery it's going to happen. But killing a female lead to replace it with a male lead who gets the lions share of the focus and attention is just bad IMO. Add in how it's revealed that the mastermind cheated to kill her and how cruel her death was its really not a good look.
On the ending twist I don't really think DR 1+2 are meant to have really happened in the V3 world. It makes no sense when you add in stuff like DR0,DR3,or UDG. I basically just took it like how Digimon Season 3 treated 1+2. Fictional in that universe but still real in its own.
You know come to think of it Digimon season 3 was quite the meta mindfuck as well. Think anyone at Spike Chunsoft was a fan?
Killing a female character is absolutely fine. This is a murder mystery it's going to happen. But killing a female lead to replace it with a male lead who gets the lions share of the focus and attention is just bad IMO. Add in how it's revealed that the mastermind cheated to kill her and how cruel her death was its really not a good look.
On the ending twist I don't really think DR 1+2 are meant to have really happened in the V3 world. It makes no sense when you add in stuff like DR0,DR3,or UDG. I basically just took it like how Digimon Season 3 treated 1+2. Fictional in that universe but still real in its own.
You know come to think of it Digimon season 3 was quite the meta mindfuck as well. Think anyone at Spike Chunsoft was a fan?
I disagree entirely. DR1, DR2, and DR:AE all had endings of a similar nature: the world is (maybe) fucked, and we don't know our place in it, but we'll find out how things are for ourselves and make the best out of it. This is exactly the template they followed for the V3 ending. That is what hope is.
The sequel hook would be what the ending means for the series going forward, not for the stories of the V3 survivors. What is this society where killing games are popular TV shows? How is it that there are teenagers who want to participate, who are subsequently kidnapped and get a device installed on their heads? Did a killing game occur in the "real world" that Danganronpa uses as a template, which the game heavily implied as Shuichi deliberated why Tsumugi was talking about a "copycat killing"?
All of these dangling threads are also what a sequel hook are. The epilogue definitely completely went against the game's ending, diluting its significance mere minutes after it occurs.
It would have been really cool if you started off playing as Shuichi or something, and then the protagonist shift was to Kaede.
Good point. I guess I'm just hoping they don't continue from here since I think this is a good ending point, regardless of the epilogue.