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The Needle Drop pioneered music reviews. His other channel was for the alt-rights
- Thread starter Cheddahz
- Start date
After posting nazi memes, going on the "it's a hit piece" defense for 21 minutes instead of just going "regardless of the context, I'm sorry for causing hurt and will try to do better" is not a good look.
Also going for buzzwords like "the mainstream left" "you can't turn a meme into a nazi symbol" and using "at least I'm not as bad as Richard Spencer" as a defense. Sure, maybe you're not actually a nazi, but you've said some pretty shitty things and spending 21 minutes defending your usage of said shitty things and Sam Hyde isn't where you wanna be if you're truly as compassionate and leftist as you claim to be. Just take the L and strive to do better.
Also going for buzzwords like "the mainstream left" "you can't turn a meme into a nazi symbol" and using "at least I'm not as bad as Richard Spencer" as a defense. Sure, maybe you're not actually a nazi, but you've said some pretty shitty things and spending 21 minutes defending your usage of said shitty things and Sam Hyde isn't where you wanna be if you're truly as compassionate and leftist as you claim to be. Just take the L and strive to do better.
excelsiorlef
Member
Can I get a summary of the video.
I make it a general rule not to invest 20+ minutes listening to people ramble for anything but entertainment or serious information of which this dude offers none
I make it a general rule not to invest 20+ minutes listening to people ramble for anything but entertainment or serious information of which this dude offers none
excelsiorlef
Member
The bolded is meaningless jesus, GW Bush is arguably not as bad as Richard Spencer.... that doesn't make GW Bush good in anyway
plasmawave
Banned
Fadar fake news now?
finowns
Member
After watching the video, all 20 minutes, he's definitely a Nazi.
You've been in this thread since day 1 talking about this guy, watch the video.
It also doesn't mean GW Bush is an alt-right sympathizer, which the Fader article tries to characterize Fantano as. Where you think he's a good guy or not is up to you, but the article weakly tries to make Fantano out to be something he's objectively not.
You guys have a literal alt-right sympathizer in the White House and you think this guys memes are doing damage.
He totally vindicated alt right favored content by lumping it together with pseudo social conscious cartoons and edgelords. He clearly isn't repentant at all about the content he posted. He even implies that he'd keep the second channel going if he could make money from it. I mean, he basically validates the opinions of everyone who thinks he's shitty even if he "debunked" some of the points of the article.
excelsiorlef
Member
mortal
Gold Member
It's absolutely hilarious that people actually accused melon of being legitimately alt-right. How could you watch the videos on thatistheplan and actually come to that conclusion?
Fader published a misinformed hit piece and Anthony Fantano defended himself quite well.
Fader published a misinformed hit piece and Anthony Fantano defended himself quite well.
If you aren't at least willing to take a mere 20 minutes listen to the accused person's defense and rebuttal, why bother engaging in the conversation?
Of course memes do damage. Memes can help normalize and mainstream ideas. Same way advertising, film, books, music, etc. do.
Why is he called Melon? I thought they were just making fun of his head in comments sections from his reviews.
TrumanBurbank
Member
Watched the Fantano response. Dude is basically 99% liberal and NeoGAF is trying to kill him because he is not 100% liberal.
This site is becoming extreme.
This site is becoming extreme.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
God dammit Fader.
Yeah, it's because of that
mortal
Gold Member
It's sort of baffling how unreasonable some posters on here can be.
Guilty until proven innocent.
mambadragon
Banned
So what the article actually proved is that Anthony Fantano is not a comedian, because those videos are terribly unfunny if they're supposed to be satire. Not in that they're inappropriate or anything, they're legitimately bad jokes.
TWrecks310
Banned
Yeah I think the rest of his defense is reasonable except for that, and how he brushes off the amazing athiest part.
Have you actually read the thread and seen why people weren't happy with him?
Because those issues really weren't addressed in the video.
Because 20 minutes of him "debunking" is unnecessary in this situation? Regardless of context or jokes, he used shitty imagery that can be construed as hurtful and got called out on it. Taking the L and moving on and trying to do better is the right move. He's not repentant at all, instead he's going on the offensive, and in some pretty dumb ways at parts.
Yes, because complaining about the "mainstream left media", defending sam hyde and "at least i'm not richard spencer" are 99% liberal.
You can be liberal, yet still be a piece of shit white supremacist who is unrepentant about making racist ass memes.
benicillin
Banned
i thought the lena dunham thing was shit too. "no the joke was that he was going to beat her and leave her mutilated because she started a physical confrontation with him." ok, we get it, the joke is that he acting as if he's justified in saying all the sick shit he's going to do with her because she started a fight. except it's really not that funny, but that seems par for the course.
mortal
Gold Member
That is beside the point. You find them to be unfunny, and that's completely fine. Humour like many things in life is subjective, and like anybody else, you are entitled to your opinion.
However, that does not mean the person who you find unfunny is, in fact, a racist or bigot. Which was the essentially the heart of the false accusation published by The Fader.
His response was pretty succinct, and lined up with how I generally felt about his content as a whole. I was pretty shocked to see the conclusions people jumped to with no context to anything.
Maybe that makes me a bad person. I just lurked a lot of 4chan growing up and it's a pretty fucked up place, well, it once was at the very least, and fantano really never seemed like one of them. Like I said, think what you want, but that's my feeling.
J.W. Stillwater
Member
People still seem to ignore the fact that he associates and has given a platform to some pretty vile people. Wether those videos were a joke or not is irrelevant to me because of that.
Let's say it together class:
Racist.satire.is.still.racist
There's.no.context.that.makes.racism.alright
Don't see how the Fader article was bullshit when it covers so much in so much detail. Either you people refuse to admit how fucked up Fantano is or you know how fucked up he is and are trying to downplay it.
I mean, if your conclusion is that he's definitely a Nazi, I don't really want to watch a Nazi's video.
finowns
Member
Sure.
I mean, he's probably not. But he sure wasn't losing sleep at night profiting from them.
And he implies that he'd continue to do so if youtube didn't demonetize his second channel.
ElectronicOldMen
Banned
SATIRE. IS. WHEN. YOURE. RACIST. BUT. IRONICALLY.
fuck this guy and everyone he courts and associates with cont., if yall hadn't realised that this is what he is and these are the people he wants to be around until now then I don't really know what to say. The Fader article wasn't saying anything new about the guy, this is what he's been. Get off the fucking train, you don't need to defend him.
fuck this guy and everyone he courts and associates with cont., if yall hadn't realised that this is what he is and these are the people he wants to be around until now then I don't really know what to say. The Fader article wasn't saying anything new about the guy, this is what he's been. Get off the fucking train, you don't need to defend him.
airmangataosenai
Member
He addressed it once by saying someone called him that in the comments once and it just stuck because ot seemed like such a dumb and flippant insult.
Bounceounce
Member
Obviously I agree with the video, even though he could have went after then harder/used many more examples, but none of the points he made are likely to sway anyones mind, as we're all working from different definitions of what constitutes being "alt-right" or hedging towards them.
You sound like my racist step-Dad trying to pretend he thinks rap music is racist.
His dumb videos arent fucking satire.
Why are people still saying he was creating racist memes? Did you even watch his response video?
The images, that supposedly evoked the past of black people being lynched, have no such meaning on their own nor did they in context of his videos. The connection was weak in the article and is just as weak from the people parroting it here. The image of the stereotypical Jew was the only legitimate point of criticism.
The images, that supposedly evoked the past of black people being lynched, have no such meaning on their own nor did they in context of his videos. The connection was weak in the article and is just as weak from the people parroting it here. The image of the stereotypical Jew was the only legitimate point of criticism.
mortal
Gold Member
That makes no sense. How can you be genuinely liberal and genuinely, knowingly a white supremacist? Those principals fundamentally contradict each other.
Both ideologies can be hosts to questionable human behavior, I'll give you that.
Thank goodness!The Jew pic is negligible.
Why is it weird? I don't follow typically follow a youtubers life, I only watched his music reviews and got informed about music. I had no idea he had another channel, much less one as stanning to racist edgelords. I don't want any of my coin going to that fucking shit. Much less when you have so many downplaying being a shitlord in this very thread.
mortal
Gold Member
So the defense of the person in question is deemed "unnecessary" because you don't approve of the production style of the video? Even though he provides more than enough information and context in his defense?
Actually, he was called out for being affiliated with the alt-right, essentially being labeled a white racist, which is unfounded. His imagery is hurtful to whom exactly? To people that lack self-awareness and a sense of irony?
Why would he take the L and have his name and reputation slandered on the grounds of false accusations? That is absurd. He has the right to defend himself, and I'm glad he did.
That makes no sense. How can you be genuinely liberal and genuinely, knowingly a white supremacist? Those principals fundamentally contradict each other.
Both ideologies can be hosts to questionable human behavior, I'll give you that.
What? I'm talking about the reasons used before in this thread to excuse his channel.
Also, comparing me to your racist step dad? Kind of out of line. Really showing your ass here.
Bounceounce
Member
There's no ironic racism though.
Yah that wasn't good, though people might not want to accept it as "just a mistake."
He could have labeled it as a mistake/wrong, and then mentioned his 4:44 review where he called out what he viewed to be stereotyping/anti-Semitic rhetoric towards Jews in a line.
plagiarize
Banned
It's not hard.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ok tell you what he makes some good point at the start mostly towards some (key some) of the imagery.... Though accusing Clinton and the mainstream left of propping up Richard Spencer by acknowledging what Pepe had become is nonsense, as was his general need to defend the meme.
His defense of he's not making fun of rappers just their fans is interesting though because all the rappers were black and when he mentions the article says he didn't do the same or white rockers he points to criticizing them on his other channel... but that's not the same channel. If he only made fun of fans of black rappers on his meme channel and not white rockers, the accusation of only focusing on rap on that meme channel is accurate.
The crux of his Sam Hyde portion is where it goes off the rails:
He basically defends it as It was a joke 1 and he focuses far too much time on the fact that the writer initialled interpreted nailing her as sexual violence (as did I). He spends most of the Sam Hyde portion letting us know that Hyde didn't joke about raping Dunham, just beating her into a pulp beyond recognition and mutilating her... He actually gets mad that the writer updated the article to remove the rape reference... But yeah
He just completely sidesteps his participation with Amazing Athiest and that anti-feminist video.. like he just goes AA isn't alt right so whatever....
He also basically whitewashes Sargon completely.. and his defense of supporting Sargon with #FreeSargon on twitter using everyone's favorite Free Speech principles, is that he said a bunch of left wing things on twitter so he can't be criticized for backing Sargon.
He admits to SJW shit but thinks none of it matters and isn't a big deal
He addresses some points but wipes a lot away under the guide of just joking .
Here's what I will say invoking alt-right specifically was a mistake, but Fantano did not defend himself from his associations with Hyde, Sargon or Amazing Athiest whatsoever, or his SJW jokes or any of that.
He basically doesn't once acknowledge that some of his "satire" is fucked up and admits he's quitting because hes not making money and doesn't want YouTube to profit off his labour or something.
So is he alt-right, probably not, and I personally never said he was. Is he an ally to social justice? No probably not, he's less alt-right and more Bill Maher...liberal but useless.
His defense of he's not making fun of rappers just their fans is interesting though because all the rappers were black and when he mentions the article says he didn't do the same or white rockers he points to criticizing them on his other channel... but that's not the same channel. If he only made fun of fans of black rappers on his meme channel and not white rockers, the accusation of only focusing on rap on that meme channel is accurate.
The crux of his Sam Hyde portion is where it goes off the rails:
He basically defends it as It was a joke 1 and he focuses far too much time on the fact that the writer initialled interpreted nailing her as sexual violence (as did I). He spends most of the Sam Hyde portion letting us know that Hyde didn't joke about raping Dunham, just beating her into a pulp beyond recognition and mutilating her... He actually gets mad that the writer updated the article to remove the rape reference... But yeah
He just completely sidesteps his participation with Amazing Athiest and that anti-feminist video.. like he just goes AA isn't alt right so whatever....
He also basically whitewashes Sargon completely.. and his defense of supporting Sargon with #FreeSargon on twitter using everyone's favorite Free Speech principles, is that he said a bunch of left wing things on twitter so he can't be criticized for backing Sargon.
He admits to SJW shit but thinks none of it matters and isn't a big deal
He addresses some points but wipes a lot away under the guide of just joking .
Here's what I will say invoking alt-right specifically was a mistake, but Fantano did not defend himself from his associations with Hyde, Sargon or Amazing Athiest whatsoever, or his SJW jokes or any of that.
He basically doesn't once acknowledge that some of his "satire" is fucked up and admits he's quitting because hes not making money and doesn't want YouTube to profit off his labour or something.
So is he alt-right, probably not, and I personally never said he was. Is he an ally to social justice? No probably not, he's less alt-right and more Bill Maher...liberal but useless.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I have no idea how someone could watch that video and conclude that said person is "definitely a nazi" unless we've watered down nazi to mean something other than a person who wants to see Aryans/white people in general assume an elevated position in society by birthright.
I would encourage people to just set aside twenty minutes and watch the video to decide for themselves because I've already seen people "quoting" his response when they're actually rephrasing or fabricating what he's saying in order to make the point they want to make (if the quote actually demonstrates your point, there is no need to rephrase it or straight up fabricate it). Anyway, I think Fantano fairly showed that much of the article's accusations were taken out of context, made several leaps of faith when assuming Fantano's intentions or desires (for instance, hearing Fantano chuckle during Hyde's weird rant and taking it to mean that he must wish he could also say these things rather than chuckling because he's nervous about the whole exchange), and much of the implication that Fantano was mocking rappers or black artists in videos was a failure to recognize that the target of those videos are "stans" of those artists, not the artists themselves (which I thought was obvious, but hey).
However, I did feel that his tone through the video was needlessly flippant and didn't give me much faith that he'd sat back and considered how his satire (or "satire") was being perceived regardless of its original intent, both in terms of the audience it was attracting and the audience that found it disturbing. I do think, though, that the author has a weird predilection against Fantano because after watching his response the article definitely seems either poorly researched in some areas or intentionally misleading. That said, I would have hoped for more thoughtful consideration from Fantano in his response rather than his dismissive approach.
edit- I agree with excelsiorlef as well that he relied on "it was a joke" at certain moments that deserved a more reasoned response.
ElectronicOldMen
Banned
yall the second part of your reply literally contradicts the first what are you doing stop please. guess he just fucking accidentally slipped that picture into the video, woopsie fucking do
Struggled through the whole video (edit: bc it was too long and mostly boring), but I made it.
While I'm totally fine with the first few minutes of Fantano's response (as boring and dumb as they are), the rest of the video is quite actually him trying to pull off a "the writer just doesn't understand my jokes" defense.
For many of us arguing here, this is at the heart of his problem. I've commented multiple times in this thread about the problem of irony, and that's still my issue at hand at the end of all of this. If you are not an effective comedian (spoilers Anthony ain't), you can't be sure of the vast difference in public vs. private understanding of your jokes.
Dude profited off of imagery that places him in pretty muddy waters, as well as he straight up laughed at Sam Hyde's nonsense (after saying he clearly didn't find any of it funny). Maybe he's a nervous laugher (I sure am), but the Sam Hyde portion of his response proved the exact opposite of his argument.
Anyways, this whole thing is probably done. Fader likely won't respond and he'll go back to his music reviews.
EDIT: excelsior also reminded me of the AA part. Jesus, he totally blows past the crux of the problem of that video just to call him "not alt-right".
While I'm totally fine with the first few minutes of Fantano's response (as boring and dumb as they are), the rest of the video is quite actually him trying to pull off a "the writer just doesn't understand my jokes" defense.
For many of us arguing here, this is at the heart of his problem. I've commented multiple times in this thread about the problem of irony, and that's still my issue at hand at the end of all of this. If you are not an effective comedian (spoilers Anthony ain't), you can't be sure of the vast difference in public vs. private understanding of your jokes.
Dude profited off of imagery that places him in pretty muddy waters, as well as he straight up laughed at Sam Hyde's nonsense (after saying he clearly didn't find any of it funny). Maybe he's a nervous laugher (I sure am), but the Sam Hyde portion of his response proved the exact opposite of his argument.
Anyways, this whole thing is probably done. Fader likely won't respond and he'll go back to his music reviews.
EDIT: excelsior also reminded me of the AA part. Jesus, he totally blows past the crux of the problem of that video just to call him "not alt-right".